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I've been reading this book for so long, I can barely remember the beginning now. Okay, there are four things that stand out to me instinctively as important: The Double Obituary. I'm still hung on this one. If it's a red herring, I'll eat my hat. There were two obituaries for Aristide at the beginning - why? What does it mean? The Will Swap. All that business near the beginning of the book about the will getting sent around and signed or not signed by various people in mysterious circumstances. I don't remember the details, but it must have been important somehow. I should reread this bit. Josephine. She knew something. Someone didn't want her to talk. Whoever made the twig snap also set the trap. The Letters. Very incriminating, gives a too-obvious motive. Do we even know if they were genuine or not?
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Jul 23, 2014 22:04
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Read up until the end of chapter 24, 91% in and ending on "...I'm afraid to stay in this house..." The next chapter contains the reveal, so you might want to
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Jul 24, 2014 08:01
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My first impression is that the book is yelling at us that it was Sophia, which actually does all fit nicely motive and timing-wise I think. This is probably one of those things where you rule out people and whoever is left, no matter how ridiculous, is the one we're looking for. There could also be multiple murderers or sets of murderers, one for Aristide and one for Josephine. Regarding the obituaries, the first one mentions Brenda but not the rest of the family, the second his children and grandkids but not Brenda. Could be some family politics, could be someone trying to frame Brenda in some way, which would be interesting. Also, are you going to toxx on that hat eating?  Anyway, the timeline goes something like Aristide poisoned with his own medicine -> everyone is stuck at home -> investigation -> will is found to be unsigned -> Josephine finds letters -> someone tries to kill Josephine -> Aristide's real will found, bequeathing most of his wealth to Sophia -> letters are found to be from Brenda to Laurence -> B&L arrested -> someone put Edith's medicine in a cocoa mug meant for Josephine, kills the nanny instead. So let's start ruling out people. It's not Brenda or Laurence, and Roger is pretty much out of the running. Have we ruled out suicide? I suppose it's possible but would be really unsatisfying if so, so I'm ruling that out. The person that tried to kill Josephine and killed the nanny either a) wanted to frame Brenda and Laurence and didn't care about Josephine either way b) wanted to kill Josephine. If we assume that Brenda and Laurence didn't do it, option a, then the real motive isn't the letters, unless they were switched out (as in, something else was in the cistern and the killer swapped that out for the letters that WERE in Josephine's room; I don't find this very likely though), they just wanted to throw the police off their scent. Someone cold-blooded (I'd toss out Edith if this is the case but not anyone else). If we assume b, and going with the theory that it's not Brenda or Laurence, then Josephine found something incriminating. What though? She knew that Sophia knew that Sophia was going to inherit nearly everything. Did she know about Roger about to get bailed out (therefore incriminating Clemency?)? I'd toss out Edith again if this is the case, there's nothing she's hiding I don't think.
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Jul 26, 2014 19:04
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It would be an easy toxx, since I don't own any hats. Anyway, I think it's just the two of us, so enough with the spoiler tags. Let's look at the suspect list: Brenda Leonides: Was out of the house when the third incident happened. Not a suspect. Lawrence Brown: Was out of the house when the third incident happened. Not a suspect. Magda Leonides: I keep coming back to when she suddenly decided to move Josephine to Switzerland. It seemed suspicious at the time, but if that was her game, then why the next two attacks? I don't think she did it, but I think she knows something. Roger Leonides: Seems unlikely, but can he still be a suspect? Miss de Haviland: Still a suspect Philip Leonides: Still a suspect Clemency Leonides: Still a suspect Sophia Leonides: Still a suspect Josephine Leonides: Still a suspect Eustace Leonides: Still a suspect So, by my estimations, that's six suspects. Can we rule any of them out as absolutely Not Guilty? e: I refuse to believe that the double obituary is meaningless, but I just have no idea what the significance is. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 16:33
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About halfway through rereading the book. Got to the scene with the will I didn't remember the details of. This is the sequence of events, in approximate chronological order:
For the signing of the will specifically:
Taking what we know into consideration, I think it's pretty clear what happened here: Aristide was signing the will to Sophia, not the will Gaitskill drafted. He pretended to read it, parroting the content of the other will, then signed it and had the servants sign it. Nobody saw the contents of the will but him. This was Aristide's way to properly sign a will with his true intentions while still hiding it from his family. My current chief suspects are Edith, Philip, Clemency, Sophia and Eustace. I like the idea of a Josephine Culprit Theory, but the second attack in particular rules that out, since she could have died even if she set the booby trap herself.
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Jul 30, 2014 20:26
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Josephine knew that Sophia knew about a revised will, right? Is there anything else Josephine might have written in her little book?
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Jul 30, 2014 22:06
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drat near anything could be written in Josephine's book. I'm going to try to finish my reread before Friday and hope if helps narrow anything down.
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Jul 30, 2014 23:02
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Though Chapter 18, further thoughts/clues:
I don't have any killer insights, but my biggest suspects right now are Edith and Eustace. There's a lot of information hidden in this book but I don't know how any of it fits together. e: Any sort of kill motive related to trying to pin the crime on someone else is thrown out by the Nanny's death, because all they would have needed to do was to sit back and let B&L take the fall. Anything related to the love letters is out, too, since they were already out in the open. Josephine must have known something more. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 15:34
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If Sophia did it, it would be insane of her to let Charles know that she knew about the will. I don't think she's a suspect. I keep coming back to the idea that the cocoa wasn't meant to kill Josephine at all - what if it was meant to kill the nanny instead? That would put it on Josephine or anyone who had access to the cocoa after Josephine left it. Which is, once again, everyone. I can't understand Magda's actions if she's the culprit. Two hasty and failed attempts to kill Josephine (her own daughter!) immediately after arranging for her to be moved to Switzerland. Why make that decision if she was going to try to kill her before it happened?
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Aug 1, 2014 15:49
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One last line sticks out to me, from Josephine: "I’ve had an idea who it was all along, and then I made a kind of test—and now I know I’m right." What was the test? What has Josephine done during the story other than be nearly murdered multiple times? Is it related to the letters? The search of her room? The little black book? Unless Mecca-Benghazi has some more insights, I'm about ready to throw in the towel on this one. e: If no more ideas come to light, my vote for most likely suspect is Edith or Clemency. On a whim, I'm going to call Edith, because my suspected motive for Clemency was already theorized by the police, so it's probably wrong.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:02
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Nothing? I guess it's time to throw in the towel, then. By the way, since we only had 2 people this round, I think it's about time to let this thread die, and maybe start a new one after a couple weeks. Are we in agreement?
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Aug 4, 2014 15:56
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Sounds like an idea yes. 2 people isn't really enough to bounce ideas around. I'd like Mecca-Benghazi's guess before we move on.
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Aug 4, 2014 16:04
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I was thrilled to see this thread, and planned to participate, but then I couldn't stop myself reading Crooked House all the way to the end. I enjoyed the book a lot. If there's a future new thread (edit: or if this one continues - I didn't mean to imply I wouldn't play then), I'll definitely steel myself and join in properly.
Van Dine fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 18:12
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gently caress it, Sophia. New thread, old thread, don't care, but I'll be joining in next time for sure. 
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Aug 4, 2014 20:07
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Alright guys and gals, read the solution and the end of the book. I guessed Clemency because she had the closest thing to a motive, but it was a crappy guess because she couldn't know about the will, and without the will her husbands company would've been saved.
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Aug 4, 2014 20:18
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I was SO CLOSE e: I kept getting hung up on the first attack on Josephine. I assumed that the risk of death was enough to make her innocent of it, but I guess she was just that nuts. Was this a fair mystery? I think so. The clue with the chair is pretty telling in hindsight - the door is explicitly listed as being a low one. The presence of the mud on the chair was to alert us to the fact that somebody had to stand on it, which would only be needed for a child. That clue alone might have been enough if approached from the right angle. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 20:31
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ProfessorProf posted:
It would've allowed Eustace too. You have to combine it with the cops father telling him that the murderer wants to talk, etc. Or Magda wanting to send her away. I noticed when reading that Josephine had a good motive, and the murderer is hinted to be small, but it didn't occur to me at all that she might have knocked herself out intentionally, and combined with her being a kid and all I didn't look much further. The thing with Edith having to see a doctor in a particular street implying she's dying came up in "And then there were none" too. The story is full of red herrings, though. Hiowf fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 21:01
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I'm super mad about that double obituary, though. It was going to be my key to victory! I was so sure of it!
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Aug 4, 2014 21:12
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I completely missed Edith being near death.  Definitely a fair, and good, mystery. How would audiences in Christie's day felt about a child murderer?
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Aug 4, 2014 21:38
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quote:Sounds like an idea yes. 2 people isn't really enough to bounce ideas around. I think you might get more readers if you picked a slightly more obscure author than Christie, since with a book like Crooked House there are probably more people who only vaguely follow along because they already know the solution. I'm still willing to do Thus Was Adonis Murdered if people are interested.
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Aug 4, 2014 21:41
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I'll add it to the new list, but I'm closing the thread for now. Ten books was a good run, and a new thread should help draw in some new meat. See you all in a few weeks!
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Aug 4, 2014 22:18
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 21:08 |
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The new thread is up!
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Aug 13, 2014 20:50
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