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I last read this book about 3 months ago, so I can't speculate but I'll certainly follow along with the thread to see what other people think. I love whodunits and hopefully we'll do one I haven't read at some point (although I've read enough whodunits to make that kind of difficult.  )Schlitzkrieg Bop posted:Only managed to get through the first chapter last night, I'll be through 3 by the end of the night. Since this is the first Christie novel I've read since grade school, I'm wondering what more experienced readers of her work do: do you just go with the flow while reading or take notes to try to solve things yourself (which I think is supposed to be part of the appeal of the whodunit genre)? I think it depends on what kind of reader you are; I'm obsessed with whodunits but I almost never take notes on them, and I don't think it's usually necessary (although I can think of a Dorothy Sayers novel that basically required them). A thing that's fun for me is to stop at some point before the reveal (how far before it depends on the book) and try to figure out a solution of your own. And then at the end, you can either wonder why you're such an idiot or wonder why the author was such an idiot to not use your brilliant solution.
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Dec 14, 2012 08:58
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Zola posted:So... which book shall we do next? I had a friend who was very fond of the Lilian Jackson Braun "Cat Who" series, but I don't even know of they are conventional mysteries meant to be solved by the reader. I've read the first two Ellery Queen novels and wasn't terribly impressed by them, but maybe some of the later ones are better? I could recommend things because I've read probably hundreds of whodunits, but I don't want to because then I can't speculate.  I found a massive list here with some authors one doesn't hear about too much, though their books might be rather difficult to find...
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Jan 22, 2013 07:51
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I've just read the first three chapters, don't have much to speculate on yet. This is completely random, but could the limited number of men in the town somehow have something to do with it? I'm not sure what, exactly... Also, I suspect accusations of witchcraft will come up at some point.
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Jan 25, 2013 08:02
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Okay, wait a minute. When the hell did it become a foregone conclusion that the murderer was a man? I mean, I kind of got that impression too, but I don't think Miss Pinkerton ever said so and therefore I am calling it right now: the murderer is a woman.  The hat paint would be either a red herring or an attempt to frame someone. Right now my main suspect is Miss Waynflete; she seems competent enough for a confusing whodunit murder plot.Bridget being set up as a love interest seems too obvious so I am also suspicious of her.
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Jan 29, 2013 03:31
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In regards to the bird - I reread what Whitfield said about it, and could he have meant that Waynflete killed it, not him? Either way, I like ProfessorProf's idea that she's trying to frame him. So, I'm going with Waynflete as my final guess, who was also my first guess for no reason at all. Maybe she's too obvious, though...
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Feb 13, 2013 11:25
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So are we doing The Ponson Case now and The Body on the Beach afterwards? Either way I think I'll grab The Body on the Beach from my library now, since it's apparently available.
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Feb 19, 2013 04:57
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Just got caught up. The main thing that stuck out to me was the checks--maybe Sir William was being blackmailed? Why and by whom I haven't the least idea, though. The £3000 could have been an attempt to put the matter to bed once and for all. Not sure how this could tie into his getting murdered...he might have decided to come clean about whatever it was, but I can't think what would have prompted him to do so. Austin's engagement seemed to be the only recent change in his life. Also since reading Guy A. Person's post mentioning Tom Dale I kind of want to tie him into this, but the timeframe seems way too long for that to make sense. Probably he wasn't getting blackmailed at all and this is just nonsense! The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 06:27
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I don't know what to make of that at all. I'm interested to see how the women come into it - there's at least the maid if Austin's alibi is true. Tanner noticed the fifth man's footprints were too small to be Cosgrove's. Maybe the fifth man is a woman? The biggest alibi question to me seems like who got Austin to go running off to various places. Miss Belcher seems like the only woman in the story so far that Austin wouldn't immediately recognise, though I suppose she could have been someone else's actual maid. But I don't think she would have committed the murder without Cosgrove's help, and I can't imagine how he could have been in the vicinity. I'm confused. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 08:19
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Well. Hmm. This isn't so much speculation as "the sort of things that might happen if I was writing this" (and I am not a very good mystery writer): 1) I think Cosgrove will end up having been in the vicinity of the boathouse as well, simply because I cannot imagine how anyone would write this story and NOT have that happen. Don't ask me how that works with his alibi. 2) Cosgrove knows an actress and in mystery novels actresses are (or should be) totally experts at passing people off as other people. He and Austin are supposed to be quite similar looking. Therefore, 3) The man who was seen in the boat might have been Cosgrove. Or, since the man goes out of sight for a few minutes, he might have first been one and then the other. And for a wild guess, 4) Sir William, Cosgrove, and Austin had hatched some sort of scheme together. Since I have already arbitrarily decided that Sir William is being blackmailed, and since Cosgrove and Austin went to some trouble to have alibis for that night, they were planning to kill the blackmailer. Either everything went terribly wrong and the blackmailer killed Sir William instead, OR Cosgrove or Austin decided to use this chance to kill Sir William and implicate the blackmailer, only this also didn't work out. Either way, Cosgrove and/or Austin don't feel like they can tell the police about what really happened because even if they didn't kill Sir William, they were planning a murder, just not necessarily this one. I'm not sure who the blackmailer would be - pick a random name off Guy A. Person's list of characters. Of course, I am completely jumping to conclusions in deciding there is a blackmailer in the first place. There probably isn't.  edit: oh hey I just looked at the chapter titles for the first time...but I think that actually makes me more dubious? edit agin: I THINK I BROKE COSGROVE'S ALIBI. I read back through those chapters again, keeping an eye out for seemingly extraneous information. At first I got fixated on the Dundee train, but then it mentions that when Tanner is checking the alibi he takes a slow 10pm train to Grantham (where Cosgrove got his baggage from the 7:15) and it lists the stops: Hatfield, Hitchin, Huntingdon, and Peterborough. None of these names meant anything to me, but then I checked Autumncomet's map. Hitchin! So I think that has got to be it. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 10:29
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I don't recall there being anything about Portugal so far, unless I've missed something? That Tom Dale idea is starting to look more likely to me, if only because I can't think of what else it could be. I think I need to read further to come up with any specific theories about this, though. Autumncomet, you may be right about the secrets...that seems a bit more plausible than the wacky scheme idea, though I am still sticking to that for the time being. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Mar 31, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 03:02
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Oh man, for some reason I was SO SURE that grave was going to be Tom Dale's. But I have a theory now, sooo Preliminary theory: In Chapter 13 Tanner is thinking about the case and realises that his conclusions would mean that Sir William was not murdered. I have now decided that this is correct. Douglas was blackmailing Sir William about Tom Dale being alive/having been alive past when he was supposed to have stopped.* Sir William, Austin, and Cosgrove devised a plan to murder Douglas. Sir William was supposed to have left (probably to go to the doctor's) so he'd also have an alibi. Austin and Cosgrove thought Douglas was some connection of Dale's; however, Sir William knew that Douglas was actually Dale himself, and though he should have left the boathouse before Dale arrived, he stayed late to have one final confrontation with him, over his mistreatment of Lady Ponson and so on. Sir William somehow got in the way of whatever Austin and Cosgrove were doing and ended up dying instead, I'm not sure how. *I have no idea what the legal situation would have been if Lady Ponson married Sir William after Dale was officially dead but not actually dead, but since Sir William is supposed to have been pretty concerned with social standing it's probably all the same to him? I like your theory better, Guy A. Person. I'm probably also going to reread some things and try to think of a better theory. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Mar 31, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 23:46
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I think I'll just stick with my no-murderer idea, with everyone trying to kill Douglas instead. Tbh I'm more inclined to agree that Cosgrove did it, but I want to have a different theory. 
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Mar 14, 2013 10:05
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Wow, I got closer than I thought I would. I'm rather dubious about them just getting away with it though... Good call on Tom Dale early on, this thread has worked things out fairly well every time. No real preference on what's next, though I've read The Moving Finger so I'll just have to follow along for that one.
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Mar 16, 2013 03:37
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I'm swamped with uni work right now so my participation will probably be kind of sporadic. I'm a fast reader though so don't worry about where I'm at, I'll catch up.
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Mar 21, 2013 07:57
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ProfessorProf posted:If anyone's worried about not being able to catch up, don't - these really are tiny chapters, and reading all eight should generally only take an hour or two. 25 minutes.  I definitely like this idea that this is a new body, and probably the one of the woman who threatened her. Then the police will really think she's crazy if she tells them that. Jude seemed to sidestep questions about relationships/kids so she might have some kind of mysterious past there. I kind of think she'll turn out to be connected with someone else in the town. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Mar 31, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 05:15
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I don't think Jude is a professional investigator but I think she did come there specifically for some mystery-related reason. I feel like there have to be people in town she already knows, but either they're pretending they don't know her or we haven't run into them yet. Does anyone have any idea what the hell the new body has to do with anything? Because I don't. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 14:02 on May 9, 2013 |
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Mar 31, 2013 00:27
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That never occurred to me but it seems like a good idea. Also, I feel like the Turnbulls must be heavily involved somehow, they're showing up so much. I think Rory probably knows what's going on but is afraid to say/is covering for someone - if anyone else turns up dead I think it'll be him.
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Apr 9, 2013 06:21
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I'm still kind of confused about the timeline of things so hopefully ProfessorProf will clarify everything again. I knew something was going to happen with Rory Turnbull! I'm very suspicious of this whole suicide situation but I think we need more information on that. His mother-in-law at least seems to think he's involved with the drug stuff. The work on the sea wall HAS to be important. Could the dead guy have been a worker? Though in that case I guess they would have noticed he was missing. The only thing I could find that might be relevant is that there are padlocked chests there where fishermen keep their equipment. It doesn't seem like the body was ever there, though...could the body have been someone who found something else there? It's right by the Yacht Club and my current theory is that the Yacht Club is the centre of some kind of drug-smuggling ring, so maybe they had something hidden around the sea wall. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 14:02 on May 9, 2013 |
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Apr 13, 2013 01:27
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I'm trying but I really can't work out why the guy was killed. Maybe I've missed something obvious, but it seems like that's barely come up. For a totally out-there idea that has nothing to do with Rory: Vice-Commodore and the Chilcotts don't really hate each other (or one of them doesn't hate the other) and are using their signs as some kind of code for their drug-smuggling ring. If I'm picking a murderer I guess I'd go with Rory, though, since he's shown up again at this point in the story. But I have no idea why he would've done it. The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 14:03 on May 9, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 01:20
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Regarding the bit where Luke was wondering who'd mentioned puzzles, Alec had said Rita and Barry were both into puzzles. So I do kind of wonder if they came up with some plan between themselves that the murderer took advantage of. Steve Grange seems too suspicious to me at this point, but we'll see how things develop. Right now my main suspect is actually Luke and that he killed both of them because he was in love with Rita.
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May 9, 2013 04:19
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I immediately thought of the fake identities idea as well. Main thing that stood out to me that no one else has mentioned: Johnson said something was stolen from him, and that it was four feet long. I haven't the least idea what it could be but feel like it might be important somehow. If Rita and Barry did have some complicated plan, they might have needed some...tools, or something? Also, regarding Guy's #5, if you make the HM-Nero connection it seems like maybe Johnson is hiding something and is worried that HM knows.
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May 16, 2013 11:43
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Here's what I got from that: -Rita must have found a clergyman/solicitor/physician/J.P. for that passport. Did Stephen Grange end up doing it even after they'd quarreled? Could she have gotten what she needed from Tom? Neither seems very likely to me, but I'm still wondering if one of them got involved. -At one point HM started talking about "back in the studio" in regards to Belle, which got me thinking: when they find Belle, she knows she's at the studio. How? Did anyone actually tell her where she was? I read back through it and it doesn't seem like it, although we don't know what Craft told her when Dr Croxley went down to HM. -HM mentions the footprints looked like Rita and Barry kept step with each other, which might indicate that they were carrying something? When I was reading back through stuff I found an early reference to the path being four feet wide, which coincides with Johnson's stolen mystery object being four feet long. This may or may not be relevant.
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May 21, 2013 10:28
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Well, I still need to read over some things and think a little more, but I do have some wild speculation: 1) I think Barry and Rita did take the diamonds, and the murderer returned them. I...can't really figure out whether this has anything to do with delaying the police (okay, it might give more time to return them, but it took them days to check anyway), or whether it helps anything, but: when Alec comes back from checking for Rita's stuff, he says "Her clothes are still there, but--" and holds up the key. I'm pretty sure HM was right and that he meant that the diamonds were gone. Now, the whole reason I read through this part again was because I was looking for any way that Tom could possibly be guilty (and I still don't really think he is) because he seems like the only person who could've written the passport recommendation. And it turns out Tom had the souvenir key at one point, because Luke had it when he went for the police and he gave it to Tom to take back to Alec. So Tom could've returned the diamonds, but someone else probably could've as well, since they got the key off Alec pretty easily. 2) That ovaltine is totally poisoned or something. I think Belle was involved with the murder somehow, so this could make sense. Maybe. Though I can't imagine that Belle would ever return the diamonds. I can't decide which parts of Belle's story I think are true and which ones are false, but I'm convinced at least part of it will be lies. I think she'd already been to the studio, at least. 3) Oh! I just thought of something about the delay: the tide. The tide is just coming in when Luke looks over the cliff. If Barry and Rita were trying to fake a suicide and the police got there quickly, it might be obvious there were no bodies. By the time the police actually get there, it's high tide. Not sure how this would help Luke solve it though? 4) I still kind of think Luke is the best suspect, but that doesn't seem likely in this book. 5) Another stupid idea I just came up with: maybe everybody else knows it's Tom, and that's why they're trying to convince Luke to just let it go?
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May 27, 2013 05:50
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ProfessorProf posted:
Well, my idea is: based on how Belle heard the person crying in the studio, I'm guessing the murder was a "crime of passion" thing, and whoever did it was upset about it and wanted nothing to do with the diamonds/thought Alec ought to have them or whatever. Yeah, not terribly strong, but I just cannot imagine that Alec would've said "Her clothes are still there, but--" and held up the key if the diamonds were there. It would've been and, not but. Currently I think the murderer has to be someone who would go all crazy over Rita, and frankly nobody seems to fit that bill who isn't already ruled out as a suspect, so what I think doesn't actually make sense. My suspects are Stephen Grange, Paul Ferrars, and Tom Croxley. I keep trying to make Tom fit because he had the key to the diamonds, but Tom as a murderer doesn't work in my head and if it's him I'm obviously missing something. Speaking of missing things, I feel like there's something else either Barry and Rita or the murderer had to do to when they made sure they delayed the police. It can't be as simple as just making sure they get out before the police come. I'm starting to get another irrational idea about this but I'm going to wait and see what other people say first. The best argument for it being Barry who let out the petrol is that he didn't take the beach chairs in, and came inside wiping his hands. I'm probably falling for all the red herrings here. Has anyone found any hint as to where Barry and Rita were actually killed? Like...references to good places to drop bodies into the sea, or something? edit: wait, it has to be the caves, there is so much random poo poo about caves in this book. Going to read back over some things again. edit again: actually no, there isn't as much as I thought The Duke of Avon fucked around with this message at 08:18 on May 28, 2013 |
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May 28, 2013 08:10
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 I never even thought of Craft. Now I need to read like the entire book again.
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May 28, 2013 12:01
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ProfessorProf posted:2. The victims left down the cliff. The book clearly states that nobody could scale the cliff, so this would've been a lethal trip. The question raised here is: If they died falling off the cliff, then why bother shooting them? Thought of something here: when the police get there the tide is in, "thirty feet up." That would make it a forty foot jump into the water, so that's doable. They could've cut the wires and let out the petrol because they needed to hang around a few hours longer before they could escape. Though I guess if they did that then the footprints Luke saw would've been different from the ones the police saw...would he have noticed any differences?
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May 30, 2013 01:13
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Yeah, same. I can't seem to get any further on this one. I think it's either Grange or Tom, for the same reasons. I like Zola's Molly theory though...I don't know.
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May 30, 2013 05:33
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I'm keen as well since I haven't read this one.
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Feb 14, 2014 01:59
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I think Dr Joe must have been there, because otherwise he wouldn't have kept saying that he wasn't. Very curious what the deal with the film will be, too... Besides that I don't know really, haven't read enough yet.
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Feb 15, 2014 09:08
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