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tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite

They say Sessions is the best 12 in the Uintas and it's probably true.


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Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


Ashima Shiraishi decked from 45 feet after her dad didn't catch her. Sounds like he failed to disengage the cam of the GriGri, either yarding on the lever or just squeezing it open.

Her dad has been belaying her for years, I'm sure he's caught 100s if not 1000s of lead falls. Good reminder to never get complacent with proper belay technique, especially with a "complex" device like the GriGri. If you need to fast feed, use the Petzl approved method with your thumb lightly pressing on the lip of the cam to disengage and the rest of your hand still holding the brake strand. And only use this method when you're pumping out lots of slack (at clips, for example); otherwise just push rope through the device.

henne
May 9, 2009

by exmarx


drat. I try to get my curled index finger on the underside of the brake bar of a grigri whenever I hold the cam open so if I do a dumb and don't let go its more likely to pop out of my grip. Sucks that when you panic your reaction is to grip tighter and hold the cam open instead of let go and let it do its job. Also good to get in the habit of getting in the brake position once a fall starts even on a grigri to move your hand away from the device and get it out of the way.

Borachon
Jun 15, 2011

Whiskey Powered


Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Ashima Shiraishi decked from 45 feet after her dad didn't catch her. Sounds like he failed to disengage the cam of the GriGri, either yarding on the lever or just squeezing it open.

She went to the hospital and is back home, apparently just bruised up but otherwise okay: http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/ashima-shiraishi-injured-in-45-foot-ground-fall

chami
Mar 28, 2011

Keep it classy, boys~


Fun Shoe

Sit start on a sloper on a slab wall. Guess I gotta git gud to do this one. :negative:

Meaty Ore
Dec 17, 2011

My God, it's full of cat pictures!


I started climbing this past March and have been on a handful of outdoor excursions; I have all the basic gear I need except for some slings, a rope, and trad gear--the latter of which will have to wait a while. In the mean time, I'm looking into getting a rope, and don't really know what to look for--it seems 70m is a pretty standard length for pre-cut dynamic ropes? Other than that, and a pretty, flashy color scheme, what makes for a good rope primarily for outdoor use?

edit: needless to say, I'll be getting slings too, but that seems a bit more straight forward.

Rime
Nov 2, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 9 days!


Buy the cheapest, trashiest, 9.8mm 70m rope you can get your grubby little hands on, because you're going to beat the crap out of it and maybe even core it if you're super unlucky. Get a rope tarp (or a beach towel) so it don't get dirty.

After a year or two of climbing go buy a nice $300 dry rope.

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


Rime posted:

Buy the cheapest, trashiest, 9.8mm 70m rope you can get your grubby little hands on, because you're going to beat the crap out of it and maybe even core it if you're super unlucky. Get a rope tarp (or a beach towel) so it don't get dirty.

After a year or two of climbing go buy a nice $300 dry rope.

Why dry if you're not on ice?

Rime
Nov 2, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 9 days!


Dry ropes are also nice if, say, you're on pitch 7/15 and it starts pissing rain. Or you want to go climb slab naked in the rain. Or you just want some nice seaside cragging action where 10m of rope is taking a swim while your belayer gets their butt tickled by waves.

Plenty of reasons to want a dry rope outside of ice. Wet ropes in devices sucks donkey nostrils.

remote control carnivore
May 6, 2009


Dry ropes stay cleaner longer, also.

And now that I have a dual pattern, I will never go back.

Syncopated
Oct 21, 2010


I'm going to take weekend course in lead trad climbing in a few weeks. I did a sport and anchor building course last year. I've done some climbing since then and did a week of a sort of intro to multipitch climbing in the alps this summer. Is there anything I should ask the instructor to cover that might not be that's good to know?

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Using the rope to build the anchor. Very helpful when swinging pitches.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life


Recommended way to train endurance?

Just doing more climbing of easier routes? Something else?

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005



Mr. Crow posted:

Recommended way to train endurance?

Just doing more climbing of easier routes? Something else?

Volume.

Rime
Nov 2, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 9 days!


Downclimb your routes. Also really good for building technique and preparing for moving out of sportclimbing babby-land into mountaineering, where the real fun is. :black101:

canis minor
May 4, 2011



Mr. Crow posted:

Recommended way to train endurance?

Just doing more climbing of easier routes? Something else?

I've seen people either: doing the same route without any pause, a couple of times, or, counting to 2-3 before you grab a hold

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite

Mr. Crow posted:

endurance?

Treadwall, but it's hateful.

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


Mr. Crow posted:

Recommended way to train endurance?

Just doing more climbing of easier routes? Something else?

Climb a route then immediately downclimb it.

Repeat that for 2-3 laps.

Alternate fast/dynamic and slow/controlled laps.

If your gym sets multiple routes on the same rope, find a spot where you can tie in and do two laps of the 5.N the a lap of the 5.N+1 with no break.

Climb nonstop for 5, 10, 15 minutes.

Get on a route, you can only make a move when your belayer says so - have them make you wait 10 - 30 seconds in each position. This is a great technique trainer too, you learn a lot about efficient positioning when you are pumped out of your mind on terrible holds.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life


Thanks guys (and gals?), all seem like excellent suggestions!

Rime
Nov 2, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 9 days!


Awww yeah, got my IRATA cert today, with an "excellent" rating for completing everything smoothly and pro in about 45 minutes.

Not strictly rock climbing related but I figure the highest number of goons who even know what that is would be here. :woop:

remote control carnivore
May 6, 2009


One of my closest climbing partners took a ground fall free-soloing something he loving shouldn't have been. I am equal parts worried and pissed off. If I find out his hospital room #, I am going to go scream at him in the ICU.

Just be careful out there y'all, if you must FS, be careful in your risk assessment. Duder was thinking he was at the same level he was last year, even though he's been injured and barely been climbing at all this year.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Save me jeebus posted:

One of my closest climbing partners took a ground fall free-soloing something he loving shouldn't have been. I am equal parts worried and pissed off. If I find out his hospital room #, I am going to go scream at him in the ICU.

Just be careful out there y'all, if you must FS, be careful in your risk assessment. Duder was thinking he was at the same level he was last year, even though he's been injured and barely been climbing at all this year.

That is a bummer.

Also there is a climb you should go do in Buena Vista called the Carter Classic. It was super fun. We climbed it saturday, I led all the pitches.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/carter-classic/105854035

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Anyone got opinions / advice on weighted pullups? I can do ~14 or so bodyweight pullups with good form (ie no kipping, no only going halfway down per rep etc) unweighted. Are weighted ones going to get me anything apart from bigger lats? In other words will they actually be useful for climbing? Or am I better off focusing on other variants like unequal grips or towels or frenchies or whatever?

Zephro fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jul 26, 2016

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


If you are worried about accidentally getting really huge and ripped, just don't eat a ton and keep your reps per set low (3-5) to develop strength - hypertrophy focused bodybuilding programs usually go in the 8 -12 rep range. Being strong is useful but it's not going to benefit your climbing as much as a more specific exercise. Pull ups are great if you want to be a well rounded human being or have time to spend on less efficient training. If you have limited time, climb or train lockoffs/power/contact strength etc.

remote control carnivore
May 6, 2009


spwrozek posted:

That is a bummer.

Also there is a climb you should go do in Buena Vista called the Carter Classic. It was super fun. We climbed it saturday, I led all the pitches.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/carter-classic/105854035

Good news, he's being discharged today! Broken scapula, 8 broken ribs + hemothorax, plate + 7 pins in his wrist, and a couple jacked up fingers. He won't be doing 5.11s again, I reckon. :(

Thanks, I'll check out that climb. I haven't been out to BV yet. Probably next year. I'm trying to get up to RMNP for the Sharkstooth or Petit Grepon. It would be a lot easier if my fiance hadn't invited his mother to CO while I'm on vacation. :mad: Gonna be doing a fat lot of nothing for a week! I may decide to work, after all.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


turevidar posted:

If you are worried about accidentally getting really huge and ripped, just don't eat a ton and keep your reps per set low (3-5) to develop strength - hypertrophy focused bodybuilding programs usually go in the 8 -12 rep range. Being strong is useful but it's not going to benefit your climbing as much as a more specific exercise. Pull ups are great if you want to be a well rounded human being or have time to spend on less efficient training. If you have limited time, climb or train lockoffs/power/contact strength etc.
It's not that. I don't have much time to climb and even less to train / do other exercise between job and family and commute, so I don't want to spend time doing things that aren't going to help. If more/heavier pullups aren't going to be of much benefit then I guess I'll start doing something else with that time instead.

Zephro fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jul 26, 2016

Siamang
Nov 15, 2003


Zephro posted:

It's not that. I don't have much time to climb and even less to train / do other exercise between job and family and commute, so I don't want to spend time doing things that aren't going to help. If more/heavier pullups aren't going to be of much benefit then I guess I'll start doing something else with that time instead.

Weighted chins (never more than 5 reps per set) give me a lot of pulling power, although I'm new enough to climbing that I can't really apply it as effectively on smaller holds. I think training the variations of front levers might be better use of bar time if you're willing to deal with feeling really weak when you first try them. Try both for a couple of weeks and see how they feel? It shouldn't take more than ten minutes to knock out a couple sets of weighted pullups/chins and then a couple more sets of tuck levers.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Weighted pull ups 3-5 reps 3 min rest in between, 5 sets. Is a standard training I use. And something pretty much all training coaches use. Probably don't have to do ur more then 2 times in a week. But you will see gains. You want enough weight to where you are almost falling on your last rep.

Mons Hubris
Aug 29, 2004

fanci flup :)




How long per day should I be using a grip strengthener (I have the Finger Master)? Do they have recommended routines for these things?

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


OK, thanks for the advice, everyone. My bar is a door-mounted one so there isn't space to practise front levers, which is annoying, though I've been meaning to start trying at the gym's bars. I'll carry on with the weighted pullups for a month or so and see if I notice anything different on the wall :)

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


Zephro posted:

Anyone got opinions / advice on weighted pullups? I can do ~14 or so bodyweight pullups with good form (ie no kipping, no only going halfway down per rep etc) unweighted. Are weighted ones going to get me anything apart from bigger lats? In other words will they actually be useful for climbing? Or am I better off focusing on other variants like unequal grips or towels or frenchies or whatever?

Depends on where you are skill-wise with climbing too. 14 pullups is pretty decent base back strength. Big lats are cool and all and always make things easier, but if you're climbing at less than a 5.12 level with limited time, you'd probably see better climbing gains just focusing on technique, finger, and forearm strength.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


IMO it doesn't matter if you're climbing above or below 5.12 -- if you can do 14 body weight pull-ups, I doubt any additional improvements in your pull-up abilities will help with climbing to any noticeable degree. Maybe if you're climbing below 5.10...

I think the reason to consider weighted pull ups is to get down to the ~6 rep range where you probably will bulk up less and maybe have less chance of any overuse injury or aggravation that you could get with higher reps. That said, unless you have absolutely no pull strength, it's important to remember that pull ups are not very specific for climbing at all and are at best a supplemental exercise that should be a lower priority than more climbing-specific training.

Mons Hubris posted:

How long per day should I be using a grip strengthener (I have the Finger Master)? Do they have recommended routines for these things?

To what end? A grip trainer could potentially be helpful in getting your fingers and forearms a bit warm before you actually do your warm up, but they're not going to help you climb harder or make your climbing grip stronger. probably won't be harmful at all either, but don't expect it to make you a stronger climber

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Thanks. Grip strength is one reason I was considering towels - there's a boulder route at the gym right now that I can't complete exactly because of grip strength, heh.

On finger strength: is there a good way to train it besides hangboarding? I'm a little wary. The gym has a couple of Beastmakers and I've had a couple of tries on the 1000, hanging from the four, three and two finger deep pockets for 5-10 seconds each, and then doing a couple more sets of the same, as well as specifically choosing some crimpy routes to try. Which seemed fine, but the next day I noticed some tenderness and pain in the first joint of several of my fingers, so I backed off. I've been told by others to be wary of hangboarding and campusing because it's really easy to tear/injure your tendons, and my experience kinda fuelled those worries.

Zephro fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Jul 27, 2016

Mons Hubris
Aug 29, 2004

fanci flup :)




Sharks Eat Bear posted:

To what end? A grip trainer could potentially be helpful in getting your fingers and forearms a bit warm before you actually do your warm up, but they're not going to help you climb harder or make your climbing grip stronger. probably won't be harmful at all either, but don't expect it to make you a stronger climber

Oh. Well, I was trying to get my fingers strong enough that I can at least use a hangboard without hurting myself. I still struggle with crimps and pinchers and it feels like a lot of that is grip, but maybe not?

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Goddamn, I have no stamina. Right now I'm climbing v2/v3 pretty regularly, but burning out fast on 5.10c routes because I just get exhausted so quickly. Part of it is I know that my footwork blows and I'm trying to improve that, but any decent ways to improve my stamina outside of a gym? I can't toprope very often or I'd just so more of that. I know to downclimb as much as possible, but my problem is more that I can't climb too much so I'm looking for things to do away from the wall/rock.

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


you build stamina by climbing through the suck for as long as you can. If you can't toprope but your gym isn't crowded, traverse until you fall off the wall. Then jump back on and keep going. If you're primarily bouldering, climb the tallest easy problems until you fall off. If you can't find a partner, does your gym have an autobelay?

Aerobic sport endurance (running, cycling, swimming) does not carry over to climbing endurance in my experience. It teaches you how to mentally deal with struggling against your body's desire to stop, but the physical adaptation doesn't help much, beyond losing weight.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


Zephro posted:

Thanks. Grip strength is one reason I was considering towels - there's a boulder route at the gym right now that I can't complete exactly because of grip strength, heh.

On finger strength: is there a good way to train it besides hangboarding? I'm a little wary. The gym has a couple of Beastmakers and I've had a couple of tries on the 1000, hanging from the four, three and two finger deep pockets for 5-10 seconds each, and then doing a couple more sets of the same, as well as specifically choosing some crimpy routes to try. Which seemed fine, but the next day I noticed some tenderness and pain in the first joint of several of my fingers, so I backed off. I've been told by others to be wary of hangboarding and campusing because it's really easy to tear/injure your tendons, and my experience kinda fuelled those worries.

Mons Hubris posted:

Oh. Well, I was trying to get my fingers strong enough that I can at least use a hangboard without hurting myself. I still struggle with crimps and pinchers and it feels like a lot of that is grip, but maybe not?

Yep, finger strength is ultimately the limiting factor in climbing, so it makes sense to start working on it earlier than later. The question is how do you train finger strength both effectively and (emphasis) safely. Best way to derail long-term progression is to injure your fingers every 6-12 months -- I think a lot of climbers wind up in a rehab-reinjure cycle that really stalls progress.

Hard bouldering and lead climbing are great ways to effectively build finger strength, with the bonus of getting to work on technique and movement as well. The problem is that they're not necessarily safe for your fingers. The loads and forces your fingers face can be unpredictable and difficult to control. It's also easy to get sucked into a mentality of *needing* to send the new crimp problem at the gym, or wanting to keep up with the crew and climb what everyone else is climbing even if the climb in question has a tweaky hold. All it takes is one dynamic move to an unexpectedly small crimp to pop a pulley and sidetrack your climbing for a few months.

I'm a huge proponent of hangboarding, but with a huge caveat. In order to hangboard effectively AND safely, you need some sort of counterweight system; a pulley setup is probably the most common and best. The pulley setup will allow you to remove weight and hang with less than bodyweight if needed. In general, unless you're a real crusher, most climbers will probably need to hang with less than bodyweight on most grips. With the pulley system you can precisely and consistently control the loads and forces your fingers face, and if you're conservative I think hangboarding is the most effective way to strengthen your fingers and condition them against injury. Personally, my two finger pocket grips have always felt super tweaky and weak, but having trained them on a hangboard for the past 18 months or so, I don't feel like I'm going to injure myself any time I need to use a two-finger pocket anymore. I don't climb on pockets very often, so I absolutely think this is attributable to hangboarding.

Hard bouldering and route climbing are still important parts of progressing as a climber, and I'm not saying you should avoid them all together. But you need to be conservative and avoid tweaky climbing whenever possible; it's easier to "just say no" to a new problem at the gym when you're getting your finger strength training elsewhere, too.

The Rock Climbers Training Manual by the Anderson brothers, and the associated website, are great comprehensive resources about strength training and hangboarding, I'd check those out. And depending on your abilities and how confident you are with this stuff, maybe try to find someone at your gym that can give more individualized advice -- obviously everything I'm saying is pretty general and I've never seen either of you climb, so take with a grain of salt.

Sharks Eat Bear fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jul 28, 2016

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Thanks, that's really helpful. The gym I use doesn't have any counterweights on its hangboards - how plausible is it to build and bring your own? I've seen people using various contraptions made out of what look like resistance bands, ropes and carabiners.

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005



Zephro posted:

Thanks, that's really helpful. The gym I use doesn't have any counterweights on its hangboards - how plausible is it to build and bring your own? I've seen people using various contraptions made out of what look like resistance bands, ropes and carabiners.

Harness, short length of dead rope and a biner. Take plate weights string ripe through hole, lock to belay loop using biner through figure8s on bights.

Done.

No harness? Use the rope like a swami belt.

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Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


Zephro posted:

Thanks, that's really helpful. The gym I use doesn't have any counterweights on its hangboards - how plausible is it to build and bring your own? I've seen people using various contraptions made out of what look like resistance bands, ropes and carabiners.

When I started HBing at my gym, it also didn't have a counterweight setup. The HB wasn't directly mounted to the wall -- it was mounted to plywood, with a foot or so gap between the plywood and the wall. This meant I could girth hitch a couple long slings around the plywood and attach my own pulleys to those slings. I also brought some ~5mm cord to tie into my harness, threaded the pulleys, and then girth hitched some slings to the weight plates so I could easily attach them to the other end of the cord. It was a minor PITA to bring all the gear to the gym myself, but overall it was pretty straightforward.

Certainly easier if the gym has the setup installed itself, and it's totally worth pinging the gym manager to ask if they'd be willing to install a pulley system. It's a really easy and cheap to setup, so you probably have a decent shot at being able to convince them to install it.

Some people use resistance bands or other means to remove weights; the reason I think pulleys are the best method is just that it's more precise, which makes it easier to control the resistance you're using and also to track it over time.

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