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Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Yo salt lake people, gonna be in salt lake for two weeks starting Monday. Unsure of my schedule right now, but anyone have gym recommendations or possibly willing to Boulder somewhere on a weekend?

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Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Thom and the Heads posted:

went climbing for the first time this weekend. absolutely loved it despite being the only fat guy on the wall. My lack of expertise seemed to inconvenience a few nine year olds heh. did you guys know "5.12" is actually really, really hard and not .8 easier than a 5.2? :shobon:

Haha in any other setting you wouldn't be wrong! Glad you enjoyed it, keep in mind it takes (alot!) time to get good at it, so just stick with it. Don't get frustrated if you hit plateaus, it's a very cerebral sport and determination is key.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



gamera009 posted:

My season is done.

Tore both ACL and MCL. :master:

:negative:

Who wants to recommend workouts to rehab and get stronger while I PT?

Hangboard, you will be a beast by the end

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Great Metal Jesus posted:

:stonk: Uh. RIP.

So I've got a question. I've been bouldering the days a week for a little over two years as my primary source of exercise (V5s :woop:) and wanted to add more to my workout.

Is it safe to add weight lifting in my off days? Should I do a regular routine or try and find something explicitly for working the muscle groups that don't get worked as much climbing? Is the answer to just climb more days?

It is definitely safe, with the caveat that you don't work out back muscles and biceps on every non-climbing day. If you haven't lifted much, a general overall routine would probably be best initially, and then you can try to cater to climbing specific workouts.

Core workouts are the most applicable to direct climbing gains, and you will definitely see improvement from doing dedicated core workouts. Depending on how hard you generally boulder (say 80% intensity and up hypothetically) you will generally need a rest day or two. Also increased general strength is highly useful for bouldering, don't let anyone mislead you. Having jacked legs is the one area that won't be conducive to climbing harder though.

For someone that has only been climbing two years, I would highly advise against climbing everyday, your body almost certainly isn't adapted well to that type of rigor. Unless you are sport climbing 9s and below everyday, in that case go wild

Ubiquitus fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 6, 2017

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



canis minor posted:

Also - you can generally find quite a good deals online, so, if you can, find the shoes that fit you and look around on the net. I've bought mine with £80 discount, and that was on top of my gym's 10% off. I don't know for US, but Bergfreunde.de was where I've purchased mine (UK, but they deliver through Europe)

Also - don't believe the measurements the companies put on the websites, saying to take 2 or 4 off your street size - try the shoe on (i've had to send my shoes back twice - good thing the shipping was free)

Completely agree with this. Size shoes in person, buy online from Amazon or steepncheap.com
Zappos also has free shipping and returns if you are super lazy

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



tortilla_chip posted:

It seems counterintuitive, but I stopped having finger injuries after getting more disciplined about hangboard training.

I would agree with this, I don't think I've ever seen anyone get injured from the hang board itself, but rather from mismanaging themselves and their workouts. The caveat being my statement only applies to the trango boards

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



The moisturizing thing is probably dependent by person, but I think generally its not a good idea to over moisturize (once or twice a day?)

Personally I use a sanding bar to shove off skin about once a week, maybe more often if I've recently been outside a lot and my skin is growing back unevenly

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Not to pick on you, but I don't think this is a very good workout plan for climbing. A few of the exercises may be helpful, but they're not very specific to climbing. If you're just trying to get some general fitness that may have some marginal cross-over to climbing, ok -- but if you're looking for climbing-specific supplemental exercises, I don't like this plan.

I don't have a specific set of exercises I'd recommend, but I'd start by browsing climbing-specific websites like the climbharder subreddit, RockClimbersTrainingManual.com, and LatticeTraining.com. This article could be a good starting point: https://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2013/09/16/whole-body-strength-training/

Taking a step back, and as others have alluded to, I don't think a new climber really needs to do much in terms of supplemental strength training. Climbing does require upper body (especially the forearms/fingers) and core fitness, but it also requires technique and movement skills. Early on, the best way to train all of the above is just by climbing as much different types of routes as you can. Eventually, you might realize that your butt always sags when you climb overhangs, or that you can't hold onto the grips once they get really small -- then you might want to explore supplemental strength training for your core or your fingers*, respectively.

Once you get to the point where you know that you like climbing enough that you want to devote enough time to it to not only spend multiple hours at the climbing gym (or hopefully, at the crag outdoors!) per week, but also spend even more time doing supplemental training, you still might want to think twice about strength training. Climbing can place a lot of weird stresses on the shoulders, and can require a lot of flexibility/mobility in the lower body, particularly hips. A lot of us are mostly-sedentary desk jockeys, and we probably come to climbing with suboptimal mobility/flexibility. If that's you, then you'd probably be better off spending any extra time you have for supplemental training focusing on hip and shoulder mobility/flexibility as opposed to strength training.



*I'm actually a big advocate for starting finger strength training as soon as you realize that you're addicted to climbing and that training is right for you, since finger strength is so important for getting better at climbing and takes a long time to build. If you get into climbing and start reading more about training for climbing, you'll hear a lot of things like "you shouldn't train finger strength until you've been climbing [arbitrary amount of time] or are climbing at [arbitrary difficulty level]", which is not really true IMO. That said, I wouldn't recommend finger strength training for someone who hasn't even gone to the gym once yet -- I think it's a decision to be made once you've realized you're hopelessly obsessed and willing to suffer for the sake of improving at climbing. Whether this realization happens after 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, etc. comes down to the individual.

100% agree with this post, almost verbatim my thoughts on the matter that I was too lazy to type out.

Re shoe talk: Miura VS could be a good option too, the older versions are on sale fairly often.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



E: I suck at simple things

Ubiquitus fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jan 16, 2018

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Sharks Eat Bear posted:

I'm going to disagree a bit. tl;dr: finger strength training might not be the best thing to work on for short term gains, but is probably one of the best things to work on for long-term gains and injury prevention. If you know you're in climbing for the long-term, then you should at least consider incorporating finger strength training at an early stage

It's true that as a newbie climber, your fastest gains will come from the spontaneous technique & movement improvements that come with more mileage just climbing. And since finger strength is not something commonly trained, most newbie climbers don't need a huge stimulus to achieve significant adaptations in terms of finger strength.

However, if you are truly obsessed with climbing and already realize that it's something you're going to be doing for many years, if not the rest of your life, then you will, at some point down the line, be limited by finger strength. And if you wait to work on finger strength until it becomes an issue, then it's "too late" -- finger strength adaptations take time, especially when you're climbing at a more advanced level.

In addition, finger strength training on a hangboard is probably the best tool for mitigating finger injuries, as you can have complete control over the loads you subject your fingers to, as opposed to bouldering where you're likely moving much more dynamically and will be much more tempted into overdoing it for the sake of a send. I actually think that the best reason to start hangboarding earlier than later is to condition your tendons so that they'll be ready for action once you start getting into grades that are more finger-intensive.

Another huge factor is where you'll be doing your climbing, in the immediate and near future. Is your goal to climb outdoors, or are you satisfied with gym climbing? If you do want to climb outdoors, I think this is another reason to consider finger strength training. Most (not all) gym climbs have much larger hand- and foot-holds than you're likely to encounter outdoors, which limits both the strength and technique applicability of just climbing in the gym if you ultimately want to focus on climbing outside. If you're already planning on climbing mostly outdoors and just using the gym as a supplement, that's probably your best bet for developing good technique and strength by just climbing.

One of the challenges with hangboarding and climbing training in general is that there's not a lot of hard evidence to guide us, which I think makes it really hard to know where to start. If I could go back and time and coach myself when I was a newbie climber, I wouldn't be all in on finger strength training, but I would definitely incorporate it in moderation at an early stage. I'm a big fan of doing a few 10-second deadhangs on various edge in the middle of a bouldering session -- after warming up with some stretching and easy climbing, I'll do some deadhangs on the hangboard, and then move on to harder climbing. I feel that this really primes the fingers for trying hard on actual climbs, and is a nice compromise between doing some dedicated finger strength training, but in a way that doesn't interfere with actual climbing.

That said, I arrived at this after a few years of experimenting with different hangboard protocols, of which there are too many to review here. At the end of the day, it's impossible to make a recommendation for or against finger strength training without knowing more about the individual. The point I'm really trying to make here is that I think the conventional wisdom of "you should avoid hangboarding because you'll get better by just climbing" or "because it has a higher injury risk" are inaccurate.

If you know you're in climbing for the long-term, if you have plans on climbing outdoors, if you're already reasonably fit and not massively overweight, if you have enough time to spare that you can research and commit to an additional workout plan in addition to climbing, etc. -- if the answer to these questions are yes, then I think you should consider a finger strength training program, even if you're a newbie.

+1, injuring yourself hangboarding is a personal failure, not a symptom of the tool.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Your Loyal Vizier posted:

Seconding these newbie questions. I'm 29 and around 200 lbs, and starting to get into bouldering after an inactive january and february that left me with noodle arms. I'm really struggling to do anything except the easiest climbs, and don't know where to start improving my technique and strength.

Also: I got size 12 shoes because I have extra-wide size 11 hobbit feet, and I couldn't find any brands that catered to that. How can I tell if these are too large? Opinions on shoe tightness seem to vary, but I never feel like I need to take them off.

Most traditional workout sequences aren't great for climbing. Focus on back, biceps forearms, core, and shoulders.

If you're that new, climbing itself will make you better, not strength training. Most climbs can be done with Better technique. I would suggest looking back a couple of pages, there were more comprehensive posts for the same subject.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



I'm not saying forego leg work altogether, but sparingly at best. If you go hard on leg day, it should be once every two weeks, really. Maaaaayyyybe once a week if its a super light workout focusing on different isolated muscle groups

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Also that 'leg strength' that you feel is keeping you on the wall? Its actually core. You don't need your legs for climbing, sorry to break the fantasy

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



I wish we could indicate, scientifically, to any degree of certainty whether fish oil/turmeric actually work.

I haven't seen anything other than anecdotes. . .

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



jet_dee posted:

There had to be a climbing thread here, so glad to stumble across it.

Have been bouldering weekly indoors since June 2017, following a 2 year break. Before that was on and off for 2 years but never advancing beyond v2 back then. I think I've reached v2-3 now and have begun a six week improvers course offered by my centre to get on to their v3-5 routes.

What I find impeding my progress right now is, in some semblance of declining importance:
- The fear of falling/slipping/injury/dying
- Weak pinching / crimping strength
- Skin on fingers and palms becoming sore rather quickly on rougher holds and jugs (I've bought a beastmaker filing board for my calluses, a Climb On bar, and I regularly use an e45 moisturiser)
- Inflexible quads/hams (specifically when trying to hook, it's hard to keep my knee straight when raising my leg up to waist height or higher)

I might be misremembering but I think when I started in 2013, my wall advised newbies to stay out of the training area (circuit board, 50 degree training board, beastmaker fingerboards and other campus boards) for at least the first three months. Now, the advice is to avoid for the first two years, which is something I hear repeated at other walls too.
I would go climbing twice weekly if time allowed but at the moment I'm restricted to once weekly so I focus on training core two days a week mid-week.

Are there any other keyboard warriors here (aka office workers) who've found repetitive strain injuries in mouse hands/wrists/forearms becoming worse through fingerboarding? I may give those a rest for a year now and just do more climbing instead.

Everyonr should figure out their own body, but most people I know don't use moisturizer unless climbing outside consecutively, and then only rhyno restore.

Heel hooking is really about body positioning, it takes a while to figure out. Toe hooking is the same way, but involves more core usually. I would say try to find an overhung section of wall and try those things on yhr biggest jugs you can find, and repeat on progressively smaller holds to train yourself into holding them.

Hang boarding has its place. If you could climb more, I think not training at this point would be good advice.

But since you are only climbing once a week, I think incorporating a day of hangboarding would be a good supplement. Broadly saying someone shod wait -arbitrary time frame- to do it is just stupid

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



I'm personally in love with the furias and dragos

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Electoral Surgery posted:

why do you own loose solutions

Solutions suck at heel hooking

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Get some strong finger resistance bands, available on Amazon. Use those to work your forearm extensors.

The second method would be to get a rice bucket, and dip your arm deep into the bucket, and use the resistance created by the weight of the rice pushing down on your arm to bring your arm up and out of the bucket, while having your fingers splayed out. I'll see it I can find q link with pictures later.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Yeah at that level there shouldn't be anything you can't overcome with better body positioning and leverage of feet, especially if it's underrated.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Nice!

So much of climbing is mental, I think that's why its so rewarding when you manage to get it right.

Hopefully in time you can find ways to get past the fear, don't expect it to go away suddenly though.

I think climbing outside helps too, because it makes the gym much less daunting, and as you get more comfortable being higher up, that feeds back to increase your mental threshold for climbing outside.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Unsinkabear posted:

COME ON. At this point you're just going out of your way to not use plain english. :argh:


Yeah the jargon is one of the things that always frustrated me when I was starting out.

Some of it makes sense, the easiest way to communicate with someone on the wall about next moves is the jargon. . . But after the years have gone by, I've fallen deep into the machine of using it for all parts of climbing, which is really not helpful around new climbers.

I've become the enemy :smith:

Ubiquitus fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Aug 9, 2018

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



E: double post

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



spwrozek posted:

Jargon matters to explain things correctly in most industries without blabbing on for days. Sorry that you have to learn climbing jargon.

Reading comprehension is hard. Try again; the words were pretty simple but its seems you didn't understand what was written.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Here's the skin care I and the people I climb with follow:

1.) NEVER moisturize hands unless climbing outside consecutive days.

2.) Tape to prevent further injury, bleeding or raw skin. Not otherwise

3.) Always carry a sanding block, and preemptively sand down every finger/pad once a week after a shower or when the skin on your hands is thoroughly moist.

Seems to work pretty well, I never get flappers anymore and my skin fares well against rough rock

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Bouldering can be done solo, just do research and go in hyper aware of how high things are, and how dangerous it id to protrct falls.

Some climbs will definitely be mentally foreboding if the difficulty is at the edge of your limit.

It is also a good idea to try to take two pads or larger pads like Mondos/organics.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



armorer posted:

Any Polish climbing goons? It's looking like I'll be in Warsaw for a week around the end of the month, and I'd like to climb if possible.

Warsaw gyms are awful.

I think you may have more success with checking on Vertical Life or Mountain project

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Not sure how anyone in this thread can flat out say do or don't ice, there is no good literature with studies behind either position. For tendons

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



In feel ya, clan of injured peeps. Been fighting tendon strains and a lingering shoulder issue that just won't heal completely, and Hueco season is upon us

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Lol @ somehow moving past climbing is dumb and contrived to justify your own niche part of climbing being on a pedestal

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Jfc sand and gravel? Is this a state sponsored gym by mother Russia?

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Betazoid posted:

So my husband and I are indoor sport climbers and boulderers. We started climbing about 2 years ago and started to really understand footwork about a year ago. I usually am in the 5.8-5.10a range and he's in the 5.10c-11c range. We took two weeks off in May and it killed us; when we got back, 5.7s were hard again. We just took 6 weeks off (vacation plus a busy month), and after two sessions back I flashed a 5.9! I was surprised I could do it!

Any tips on breaking through from 5.9 to 5.10a? I read this thread (I'm on page 40) and I know to just keep climbing and ignore ratings, but I'm struggling on those little crimps and the big dynamic moves. I'm 5'4 and about 135 pounds (trying to lose a few as I feel better around 125). Suggestions for how to approach a 10a thoughtfully would be great. I have finished a few and actually flashed one that was tailored to my skill set (balance and a narrow route), but any advice especially from women climbers would be really appreciated!

If you're struggling with crimps, hangboarding may be useful . . .remember to remove weight using your harness and go slowly.

For dynamic movement try campus boarding, using the rungs that are about the finger width of the holds you plan on grabbing.

If your gym has a systems wall, try to find holds/movement lengths similar to the types of movements you are having trouble with.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



M. Night Skymall posted:

For what it's worth most professional climbers have a BMI from ~20-22, so you certainly want to be thin but not starving or anything. It's probably a bit inverse proportional to height, so the taller you are the lower you'd want to be since your tendons are only going to support so much, and the shorter you are the more muscle you're going to need to do deep lock-offs and other poo poo to get more reach. For example Adam Ondra's BMI is 19.9 at 6'1" and Alex Puccio's is 21.4 at 5'2".

Hm but you can also lose ROM from too much muscle. Being a shorter person (5'7), I can tell you I always feel stronger when I strength train during the off season and then taper a lot going into climbing season

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



jiggerypokery posted:

Being lighter is definitely better for climbing, but getting lighter is definitely worse for training and it's a poor trade off. A good training session > drilling bad, lazy habits because your hungry.

How do you come to the conclusion that being lighter is worse for training?

You should train at the weight you plan on climbing, otherwise you have to get readjusted to your new level of strength constantly. The fact that weight can be added via things like training vests, and I have no idea where you're going with that.

Just because you're hungry doesn't mean your brain turns to mush when climbing

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



interrodactyl posted:

It is very difficult to build strength while you're cutting weight. No comment on the brain stuff.

I'm almost always 5-7lbs heavier while I'm training compared to when I'm on a climbing trip.

Gaining strength is fine, but I would argue for most people 5-7 lbs of muscle is just wasted when discussing climbing.

You can't spot gain muscle in back/biceps/core, and how useful is 5-7 lbs of muscle anywhere else?

If the goal is looking good cool, but I can't see that being useful for climbing.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011




Sorry you're right, idk what I was posting about. Don't drink and post kids

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Kasumeat posted:

-40 really isn't unheard of up there. I'm willing to bet you don't have a sleeping bag capable of dealing with those temperatures. And the 1.5 grand that one will set you back is probably enough to cover rent for your entire stay out in the middle of nowhere.

If you don't end up dying in your frozen coffin and have some free time in Toronto, feel free to hit me up to do some (indoor) climbing.

Lol I all I read from this is"never move to Canada, unless you seekin that grave"

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



This isn't something I've personally researched, but I'm hoping someone else has.

Are glucosamine chondroitin supplements useful for preventing/healing tendon injuries?

I know they are marketed more for dealing with joint health, but I can't imagine they are harmful . . .

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



armorer posted:

I'm out in Vegas until Sunday morning, to climb in red rock canyon. Got some good days in, and today is a rest day but it rained some today and it's supposed to rain more over night. So, we can't climb here tomorrow and possibly not Saturday either, and then we need to take off. Is there somewhere nearby we can drive to instead to climb that's not desert sandstone?

Looks like most of the other places that would be nearby options I've tried are rained out (Flag, Moe's)

Bishop is probably your best option, and maybe Tahoe but I know zilcho about the climbing there (but I know there's climbing). Theres also joshua tree if that isn't rained out

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Not sure, I haven't tried. I'd say probably right now if it's raining overnight it'll be unlikely since most of that is uncovered.

Which way are you going home? CO/NM out of the way? If it's on the way that may be your best bet even though you'll lose 1/3 of a day to driving

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Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Ouch. Yeah there is bouldering on Charleston in caves, that may be the safest option, but I haven't touched any of it so I'm not sure how accessible it is during rain. It may be worth stopping by one of the local gyms and asking around.

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