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spikenigma posted:People like to watch a struggle and a character with realistic wants and desires. Emotions like friendship, trust, anger, happiness etc... Those aren't flaws though. Those are emotions. You can be narratively flawless and still have emotions.
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Dec 15, 2012 13:09
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Boogaleeboo posted:Those aren't flaws though. Those are emotions. You can be narratively flawless and still have emotions. You'll need to define 'narratively flawless' for me before I respond.
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Dec 15, 2012 13:59
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I wish there was a Superman movie that explored what Superman was really about: The Holocaust.
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Dec 15, 2012 16:25
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I hope there is less fixation on Superman himself and more focus on the people he tries to help. It would do more to justify the sycophantic adulation he receives. I'm pretty tired of Superman stories where he just swaggers around Metropolis, waiting to be challenged by a jealous super-villain who is eager to knock him off his pedestal.
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Dec 15, 2012 17:35
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I thought this would be stupid as gently caress based on Superman in handcuffs but this one bit in the trailer really made me feel like the movie might actually tackle some weighty issues. Clark: So I should've just let them die? Pa Kent: Maybe so. And if nothing else it looks like it will have some superb visuals, so even if it's a lovely take on Superman it won't be a total loss.
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Dec 15, 2012 19:43
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casa de mi padre posted:I thought this would be stupid as gently caress based on Superman in handcuffs but this one bit in the trailer really made me feel like the movie might actually tackle some weighty issues. I don't think we need to put dialogue from a trailer in spoiler tags.
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Dec 15, 2012 20:43
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casa de mi padre posted:I thought this would be stupid as gently caress based on Superman in handcuffs but this one bit in the trailer really made me feel like the movie might actually tackle some weighty issues.
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Dec 15, 2012 20:45
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Timby posted:I don't think we need to put dialogue from a trailer in spoiler tags.
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Dec 15, 2012 22:22
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If the trailer is any indication, at least the 3D showings will look ok. Not much point, but I do admit that the scenes with him floating in the water and when he leaves the atmosphere looked pretty good in 3D.
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Dec 15, 2012 23:16
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My father just pointed out one aspect of this film that gives it a huge leg up. Whenever Kevin Costner is on a farm the movie is always amazing.
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Dec 16, 2012 00:46
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All this talk about Superman being "perfect" and whatnot got me thinking to an essential aspect of Superman that hasn't been covered (that I can think of) theatrically: Superman actually fearing for his life. One of the existential barriers Superman has from being "fully human" is his own mortality. All-Star Superman did a great job with this but in film, I don't think there was ever a point in any of the films where I thought "Hmm, Superman has to wrestle with being physically afraid or is being threatened with death." In Superman Returns there's the moment where Lex and his goons are beating a weakened Superman up but even then, he stands up defiantly before being stabbed and thrown of the edge. I'd be curious to see a film that sees Superman at the height of his powers realize that he is not powerful enough to stop the villain. Maybe we'll get that when he fights Zod in this film but I imagine it would take enemies like Mongul, Darkseid or Doomsday to really explore that theme. The only thing I can think of that comes close is in the animated feature Superman: Doomsday where Superman finds himself getting the poo poo kicked out if him and everyone who saw him as a veritable god was in shock that Superman was being physically dominated. But then, again, Superman doesn't have time to process that he might get killed and simply soldiers on and sacrifices himself to stop the monster. It's all so stoic, and though I probably shouldn't expect any less from the Big Blue Boy Scout, seeing an afraid Superman would humanize him a great deal.
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Dec 16, 2012 02:31
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The stabbing / beating scene in Returns really gets to me on some deep level, I can't explain why.
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Dec 16, 2012 02:48
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FooF posted:
I think you're going to get a little of that in this film. He's going to be at peak power and have to combat someone of equal power but with a lifetime of military training. I expect we'll see Zod initially wipe the floor with Superman (there's a scene in the trailer where Clark falls to the ground and spits blood).
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Dec 16, 2012 02:51
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The best superman movie of 2013 is going to be The Dark Knight Returns Part 2. What I'm saying is gently caress superman (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 16, 2012 02:57
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The Notorious ZSB posted:I'm excited because I really want there to be a compelling Superman story told. Most of my friends are thouroughly ambivalent about this film, primarily because so many Superman stories get boring/seem to ignore or revel in his general godliness. By that I mean I never buy into the threats because if Superman is as amazing as we know he should be then most of the issues he faces should be trivial and to make them not for the sake of the film/story can be frustrating.
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Dec 16, 2012 03:51
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Rhyno, thanks for posting this thread. It'll surprise no one who has avatars turned on that I really like Superman. Unlike Rhyno, I didn't cry during the trailer, but the hairs on my arms did stand up when Superman got ready to take off. I have my doubts about Snyder, but my doubts are rooted in the fact that I've never really seen him coax a good performance out of an actor or actress. This movie has enough solid acting talent that that'll probably not be a concern - and it looks so unlike Snyder's other films that I'm allowing myself to hope that he's upped his game. There's a lot of reasons I love Superman, and one of my little hobbies is finding posts around the Internet about people waxing poetic about their love for the character. My current favorite, regarding this movie and the dumb ol' controversy over Superman in handcuffs, is this: Christopher Bird posted:... and of course there is nerd rage because nerds are all “why is Superman letting them put him in cuffs” and “this is so stupid, Superman can bust out of the handcuffs whenever he wants” and “this better not be some stupid thing where they have Kryptonite bullets.” I share Bird's concern about the costume because bah humbug tradition color balance bah, but one thing the past year and a half worth of Action Comics has taught me is that Superman can be Superman even if he's just wearing a T-shirt and jeans while doing Superman stuff. So I'm less hung up on them changing the costume than I used to be. I'll admit, however, that he's not for everyone, and it's okay by me if he's not for you. There's lots of different superheroes out there and you don't have to like them all. I do get my dander up a little when people over-generalize with Superman and declare that no one should like him, instead of just themselves, because of perceived flaws in his story engine. I have an interest level in the works of J. R. R. Tolkien that barely hits none percent, for reasons I think are legitimate - but I don't think I've ever declared that no one should be interested in Bilbo Baggins and His Fightin' Dwarf Commandos, and my solution to the problem of "I don't like The Hobbit" is "I won't see The Hobbit." I'm fine with it if you don't like Superman, but I love Superman, and I can hardly wait to see this movie and behold its take on a character I love.
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Dec 16, 2012 03:55
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By the way catch the trailer in 3D if you can - the 3D is really good in it, starting with the shot of him floating underwater.
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Dec 16, 2012 03:57
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The best superman movie of 2013 is going to be The Dark Knight Returns Part 2. Thanks for that, incredibly insightful. Rhyno posted:My father just pointed out one aspect of this film that gives it a huge leg up. Whenever Kevin Costner is on a farm the movie is always amazing. I agree, getting Costner on this was a huge coup, and I think a good sign of things to come. A big part of humanizing Superman is humanizing Jonathan Kent, making it so that his adoptive father figure isn't just a stoic, unflappable source of wisdom and life lessons like Jor-El is. The way he delivers that "maybe..." in the trailer is perfect that way, it shows that Pa's not a bad person, he's just finding his way through this unforseen, literally alien situation the same that Clark is. Unlike most other portrayals, this film appears to have the honesty and gumption not to give him all the answers just because he's Superman's Dad, he'll actually grow as a character alongside his son. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 04:15
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casa de mi padre posted:Good contribution to this thread. McSpanky posted:Thanks for that, incredibly insightful. You know what's more annoying than threadshitting? Pointing it out and going "OH LOOK THAT SURE IS SOME THREADSHITTING."
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Dec 16, 2012 04:35
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Rhyno posted:My father just pointed out one aspect of this film that gives it a huge leg up. Whenever Kevin Costner is on a farm the movie is always amazing. I can't just throw a QFT after this, but good call.
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Dec 16, 2012 04:37
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Is it just me or is the color balancing in that trailer really awful? It's not even the typical teal and orange cliche, the recent Star Trek trailer had that going on but still had other strong colors to balance those out. Like wouldn't it look better with a few simple tweaks, like this:  
Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 04:49
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Lord Krangdar posted:Is it just me or is the color balancing in that trailer really awful? They may be going with a more washed out color scheme at times. It certainly seems to be intentional.
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Dec 16, 2012 05:01
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DFu4ever posted:They may be going with a more washed out color scheme at times. It certainly seems to be intentional. I'm sure its intentional, but there are better ways of pulling off a gritty, washed out color scheme without reducing everything to a bland teal-tinted murk. Take the film Martyrs for example (spoiler image ahead): http://mobground.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/martyrs2.png EDIT- Here is the full scene, just because its the best example I can think of (again, spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulzSWLGw9HI
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Dec 16, 2012 05:08
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McSpanky posted:I agree, getting Costner on this was a huge coup, and I think a good sign of things to come. A bit part of humanizing Superman is humanizing Jonathan Kent, making it so that his adoptive father figure isn't just a stoic, unflappable source of wisdom and life lessons like Jor-El is. The way he delivers that "maybe..." in the trailer is perfect that way, it shows that Pa's not a bad person, he's just finding his way through this unforseen, literally alien situation the same that Clark is. Unlike most other portrayals, this film appears to have the honesty and gumption not to give him all the answers just because he's Superman's Dad, he'll actually grow as a character alongside his son. Costner's been a favorite of mine for as long as I can remember. Field of Dreams and Dances with Wolves are pretty much required watching for a midwestern boy like myself. And that's yet another thing that draws me to Superman. I may have been born in a big city but I spent my formative years growing up in Indiana and South Dakota. In two places not that different from the idea of Smallville Kansas. I moved around so much that I was almost always an outsider and I never really found my place until well after college. The portrayal of Superman as the ultimate outsider is always interesting to me because it hits so close to home. And on the subject of the other father, Russel Crowe is so god damned perfect as Jor-El that I would never have imagined him in the role prior to his casting. And with him being somewhat known for his off screen antics, he kind of fits in role the same way as the last guy to play him on the big screen.
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Dec 16, 2012 05:08
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When it comes to perfect casting, I'd say it's hard to top Amy Adams as Lois Lane. I'm not saying that "smart, fearless reporter who's the one woman that only Superman could keep up with" is a role only she could play, but I have a hard time thinking of anyone else who'd be as well suited to it. Yes, she's fair haired, but Lois Lane's hair color is literally the least important thing about her.
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Dec 16, 2012 05:46
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I hate Superman. His powers are totally infinite and therefore totally dumb, and he can only be hurt by giant Macguffins. He has so many god-like powers that it almost takes on a flippant carelessness. Superman movies are then somehow typically about how hard it is to be Superman, which is also dumb. This looks no different. I'm tired of sad, wistful Superman, who laments being a god incarnate. I feel like Superman movies get made simply because he's archetypal, which to me is sort of like writing endless origin stories for the legend of Mickey Mouse. I don't care. Enough. Someone please tell a Superman story en media res instead of assuming I want to see the Kent farm life over and over again.
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Dec 16, 2012 05:48
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Magic Love Hose posted:When it comes to perfect casting, I'd say it's hard to top Amy Adams as Lois Lane. I'm not saying that "smart, fearless reporter who's the one woman that only Superman could keep up with" is a role only she could play, but I have a hard time thinking of anyone else who'd be as well suited to it. I'm right there with you. She's my girlfriend's favorite actress so when she heard Adams was going to be Lois she was ready to see the film that second.
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Dec 16, 2012 05:57
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I hate Superman. His powers are totally infinite and therefore totally dumb, and he can only be hurt by giant Macguffins. He has so many god-like powers that it almost takes on a flippant carelessness. Superman movies are then somehow typically about how hard it is to be Superman, which is also dumb. This looks no different. I'm tired of sad, wistful Superman, who laments being a god incarnate. Well, All Star Superman has been mentioned endlessly in this thread, but I just watched Superman vs. The Elite (Based on "What's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way") and it was awesome but doesn't spend a second dealing back story. Superman and Lois are dating and she knows his secret identity, his dad is alive and Superman has zero flashbacks. He also is pretty close to godlike in the film.
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Dec 16, 2012 06:09
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I feel like Superman movies get made simply because he's archetypal, which to me is sort of like writing endless origin stories for the legend of Mickey Mouse. I don't care. Enough. Someone please tell a Superman story en media res instead of assuming I want to see the Kent farm life over and over again. This is the first Superman origin movie since Christopher Reeve first put on the tights back in the 70s. I don't even think the old George Reeves series did an origin episode. So since the 1950s you've got like 3 origin stories(The 1st Donner film, an episode of the Animated Series, and Smallville) and everything else an en media res thing.
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Dec 16, 2012 06:20
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The reviews for this are going to have to be stellar if I am going to go see it. Superman Returns did a lot to ruin the goodwill I had for the Superman franchise. But the Superman movies also suffer from a lack of interesting villains. I have no problem with Lex Luthor, but Lex Luthor as a con man is kind of dull.
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Dec 16, 2012 06:26
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blackguy32 posted:The reviews for this are going to have to be stellar if I am going to go see it. Superman Returns did a lot to ruin the goodwill I had for the Superman franchise. But the Superman movies also suffer from a lack of interesting villains. I have no problem with Lex Luthor, but Lex Luthor as a con man is kind of dull. Speaking of that, I would totally be down for Lex Luthor in a Kryptonian derived battlesuit for the sequel.
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Dec 16, 2012 06:44
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Rhyno posted:Speaking of that, I would totally be down for Lex Luthor in a Kryptonian derived battlesuit for the sequel. So long as we're getting "I hate Superman because I want everyone to love me/I don't trust aliens" Lex and not "I didn't wash my hands because I'm evil" Lex, I don't care how he fits in. And I love how on the "flying" shot it looks more like he's taking an Earth-shatteringly large leap.
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Dec 16, 2012 07:02
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Fishylungs posted:So long as we're getting "I hate Superman because I want everyone to love me/I don't trust aliens" Lex and not "I didn't wash my hands because I'm evil" Lex, I don't care how he fits in.
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Dec 16, 2012 07:18
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Fishylungs posted:So long as we're getting "I hate Superman because I want everyone to love me/I don't trust aliens" Lex and not "I didn't wash my hands because I'm evil" Lex, I don't care how he fits in. You don't want Michael Rosenbaum portraying Wally West acting as Lex Luthor? Can't wait for the movie. I'm a big Superman fan and spent many years trying to explain him to friends who typically don't read comic books. Glad to see there are people in the thread who very vocally do not like Superman, but you can tell they'll go watch it anyway because, "hey big summer blockbuster." Also Kevin Costner is the perfect casting choice for Jonathan Kent.
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Dec 16, 2012 07:34
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Say what you will - Real Estate is still pretty valuable. It kind of makes more sense than trying to get a million dollars or something that's now kind of irrelevant. The root of why nerds are boo-hooing about Superman in handcuffs is pretty simple. Superman (despite his fantastic powers) isn't a power fantasy for his creators. The critics can't help but project their feelings out in a 'IF I WERE SUPERMAN I'D BUST OUTTA THERE' sort of way. Superman's root 'humanity' - the Clark Kent, farmboy core is, essentially, the Boy Scout he's known as. Apart from in Superman II where he straight gets into a diner fight for revenge.
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Dec 16, 2012 07:40
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I have one tactical realism complaint/question about the trailer. I know contrails have nothing to do with exhaust, but why does Superman have two instead of one?
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Dec 16, 2012 07:44
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Magic Love Hose posted:Rhyno, thanks for posting this thread. That quote about Superman is incredibly true and not just for nerds either. It's true for most people on the planet because let's face it, most people lean towards selfishness. The statement, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" doesn't exist for no reason. It stays true for the overwhelming majority of people who get thrust into a position with no checks or balances against their power, which is why every dictator becomes a shithead. Superman turns the above statement completely around though. He has all of this power and can act with impunity, but he chooses to help. Most people just cannot understand why someone wouldn't use that kind of power for even a little personal gain. Hell I freely admit I would likely succumb to temptation. I would like to think I'm better than that, but then I don't have godlike powers. The question this movie needs to answer is why. Why does Superman choose to help a population of bipedal animals that may as well be ants to him? It also needs to address what it's like to live amongst a civilization as a demigod. I honestly can't fathom the amount of loneliness he must feel because he truly is completely alone on this planet.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:11
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Skwirl posted:I have one tactical realism complaint/question about the trailer. I know contrails have nothing to do with exhaust, but why does Superman have two instead of one? He has two feet?
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Dec 16, 2012 08:13
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The very air itself went "Look, normally I only give out one contrail, but motherFUCK you are SUPERMAN and you are so bitchin' you have to laser your beard off with fire, so you get two contrails."
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Dec 16, 2012 08:19
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It should be a single contrail since it makes no sense for it to come out anywhere but his butt.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:36
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