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Dectilon
Aug 15, 2008

Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of LP, and that the Lord thy Master brought thee out thence through mighty balls and a stretched out dive.
Dectilon 5:15



(banner by Phiggle)

'Betus had me and Phiggle on his podcast a little while ago

Get MMD here!

In our continuing series 'Dectilon makes Phiggle play': Maldita Castilla

And now also Rockman: Minus Infinity

Have you ever played a game that kicked your rear end? Kicked your rear end so badly you’d grimace and swear at an inanimate object? Or one where completing it gave you a sense of accomplishment that most games just don't do? In this thread we’re going to showcase hard games. Both the terrible, baffling ones that seems to chisel at your soul until you, in pure confusion and frustration, give up. And the excellent, where thought and strategy is rewarded; the kinds that make you feel awesome when you master them.

This thread will be kind of a group effort. Each person involved will contribute an LP. The people currently involved are:

Charkie Silver Surfer
Chip Cheezum Incredible Crisis
Dectilon Gradius 5 (scroll down slightly)
Diabetus
GuidoAnchovies Shadow of the Beast
Phiggle VVVVVV
Psychedelic Eyeball Street Fighter 2010
Slowbeef Contra 3 Revenge of Shinobi
Violen
Thevoiceofdog Star Tropics Star Tropics II




But some additional ones might be added soon!

Feel free to contribute one-off videos and such! As long as it’s not completely terrible I’ll add it to the the second post.

I will start things off with...



Few genres have as strong a reputation for difficulty as the shoot ‘em ups. To do well you need a focus and precision rarely seen in other genres of games which can be intimidating. The worst of them are simply a repetitive grey sauce of rote memorization and luck, whereas the best are a crescendo of impressive set pieces and inventive visuals that keeps teaching and testing the player, and pushes the boundaries of what the player thinks is possible.

Gradius is probably the most famous shoot ‘em up series, and Gradius 5 is unquestionably the best. It puts more control in the hands of the player without greatly increasing the complexity. It keeps the level of difficulty high while reducing frustration and making it easier to learn. I hope I can manage to convey just how much I like this game, and why it’s an excellent example of a hard game done right.

Intro
Level 1 - UNIVERSE
Boss timeout - Looping Core

Level 2 - BATTLESHIP
Boss timeout - Death
Boss timeout - Tetran
Boss timeout - Big Core
Boss timeout - Big Core Mk.2

Level 3 - FORTRESS

Level 4 - CELL

LEVEL 5 - METEOR

LEVEL 6 - SOMETHING GREEN
Boss timeout - Rotating Core
Boss timeout - Spherical Core
Boss timeout - Big Core Mk.3
Boss timeout - Covered Core

LEVEL 7 - IMPREGNABLE FORTRESS
Boss timeout - Beacon
Boss timeout - Keeper Core

LEVEL 8 - FINAL ENEMY

Dectilon fucked around with this message at May 16, 2013 around 09:10

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Dectilon
Aug 15, 2008

Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of LP, and that the Lord thy Master brought thee out thence through mighty balls and a stretched out dive.
Dectilon 5:15


Allmightybob - Wizards&Warriors 2
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3

Capt. J. Linebeck - Super Mario Bros: Lost Levels
World 1
World 2
World 3
World 4
World 5
World 6
World 7
World 8
World 9

Deathchicken - Maximum Carnage
OP

Dectilon - The Adventures of Batman and Robin
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3
Level 4

Contra 1: Full playthrough
Super C: Full playthrough

Contra Shattered Soldier: OP

dis astranagant - Ecco the Dolphin
Ecco OP

Fragger - N+
1-4
5-9
10-14
15-19
20-24
25-29
30-34
35-39
40-44
45-49

FreezingInferno - Super Star Wars
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

- Contra 4
Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
Stage 4
Stage 5
Stage 6
Stage 7
Stage 8
Stage 9

Frozentreasure - pid
pid OP

Gammatron - 1943
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

GmanTheTank - Contra Force
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3
Level 4

KingEffinFrost - MightyBombJack
Level 1,2&3
Level 4,5&6
Level 7-10
Level 11-13
Level 14-???

Castlevania OP

MeccaPrime - Sub-Terrania
Mission 1-4
Mission 5-7
Mission 8-9

MyNameIsKaz - Banana Nababa
1. Voodoo Mask
2. Swarm Lord
3. Plague Beetle
4. Giga Slith
5. Gatekeeper
6. ???

Nidoking - Eryi's Action
Levels 1-3 Blip Youtube
Levels 4-6 Blip Youtube
Levels 7-9 Blip Youtube
Level 10 and Final Blip Youtube
Eryi's Action EX: Blip Youtube
Eryi's Action EX: The Final Boss Blip Youtube

Ragny - Hyper Princess Pitch
Death to christmas?

Tintin au Tibet
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Another world: Full playthrough

Simon - Megaman Dongs?!
Really?!

Snakemanmn - Journey to Silius
Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3


Tomapella - Metal Storm
Level 1-3
Level 4-5
Level 6 to the end

Level 1, loop 2
Level 2, loop 2
Level 3, loop 2
Level 4, loop 2
Level 5, loop 2
Level 6 to the end, loop 2

The man with a hat - Batman
Stage 1: Gotham City (YouTube / Polsy)
Stage 2: the Axis Chemical Factory. (YouTube / Polsy)

The Proofreader - Ninja Gaiden (NES)
Act 1
Act 2

Tsym - DoDonPachi Daioujou Black Label (AAAAH!)
Level 1-2
Level 3
Level 4
Level 5

Level 1&2 - Loop 2
Level 3 - Loop 2
Level 4 - Loop 2
Level 5 - Loop 2

Xenoveritas - Milon's Secret Castle
First Floor Self-hosted (60FPS) YouTube

Zeiker - Kid Chameleon
Contra Hard Corps

Dectilon fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2013 around 19:56

KingEffingFrost
Jul 9, 2011

Extreme corset action!

I'm pumped for this thread. Gradius V is one of my all-time favorites and a generally brilliant game. I never knew that the rings would just bounce off you though, that's new to me...

Charkie
Jan 28, 2004

I AM THE WORLD'S
GREATEST DETECTIVE




Silver Surfer is an NES shmup released back in 1990, and is notorious for its difficulty. Flying around with the goddamn semi-truck of a hitbox that is the Silver Surfer, one touch from anything will kill you and take away all of your powerups, options and bombs. Add to that tight corridors and enemy patterns designed to catch you off guard, and you've got a game that isn't afraid to make you hate it. And I just so happen to love it.

I'll be playing through Silver Surfer and trying to gives tips on how to approach levels (all of those tips are "don't die"). Joining me is Mr. Swoon, who may have actually read a comic book at some point and is way more qualified to talk about the characters than I am.

So, slather on your silver body paint and let's play Silver Surfer!












Charkie fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2013 around 00:47

Glenn_Beckett
Sep 12, 2008

When I see a 9/11 victim family on television I'm just like 'Given the existence as uttered forth in the public works of Puncher and Wattmann of a personal God quaquaqua'

Silver Surfer is even BEATABLE?

a spooky ghost
Jan 1, 2010

stay the same never change


Oh wow, that banner image is awesome and super impressive. I hope those characters are actually representative of the games we will be seeing here, because there are some gems there.

FreezingInferno
Jul 15, 2010

THERE.
WILL.
BE.
NO.
BATTLE.
HERE!


This feels like my kinda place. I love me some hard games.

I might even make a one-off for this here thread... if I can find a hard game I like that hasn't been played out to death.

Maybe the Hunt For Red October on the NES. That's kind of hard.

Admiral H. Curtiss
May 11, 2010

I think there are a bunch of people who can create trailing images. I know some who could do this as if they were just going out for a stroll.


I love that image banner. I guess Phiggle made it?

GuidoAnchovies
Oct 27, 2005

Im'a get ya!


a spooky ghost posted:

I hope those characters are actually representative of the games we will be seeing here, because there are some gems there.

Here is a teaser trailer and answer to your question while I finish update 1 of the game I'm going to be playing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aDog660SbA

Shabadu
Jul 18, 2003

rain dance

Oh I hope someone plays Holy Diver.

Herb Stencil
Oct 22, 2012

Bonafide Homosaxual

I've always been curious to see more than just random clips of a Gradius game. That on top of the nature of this thread has me excited. I hope someone is doing Ikaruga (my personal favorite of the "Excellent" variety). If not I'd be happy to give a one-off a shot.

Smash Daisaku
Jul 12, 2008

Last Bet $15 on Player 1
Odds 807.1:1 ($1)


Every thread needs a banner image like that.

I'm definitely on board with this thread, especially with the potential game line-up. Heck, the Gradius V video already has me wanting to dig my copy out and give it a play-through or two. It's the right kind of difficult and definitely a great choice to lead the thread.

thevoiceofdog
Jul 19, 2009

Terminally ambivalent.


a spooky ghost posted:

Oh wow, that banner image is awesome and super impressive. I hope those characters are actually representative of the games we will be seeing here, because there are some gems there.

I'm looking forward to The Guardian Legend, that game is stupid hard and I remember getting stuck at some 'plot point' as a kid and never getting past it. I'll be doing Startropics, should have the first chapter up around tuesday. It's not nearly as hard as some of the games in this thread early on but it pulls a lot of cheap deaths on the player throughout the game.

Bovineicide
May 2, 2005

Eating your face since 1991.


I've always wanted to see more shmup LPs on this subforum. Definitely following this closely.

Please tell me that Slowbeef and Billy M.C. will be tag-teaming Lost Levels at some point, because that would be loving glorious.

KingEffingFrost
Jul 9, 2011

Extreme corset action!


(Pictured: Mighty Bomb Jack box after being thrown at the wall 50 times by a frustrated 6 year old.)

Mighty Bomb Jack was originally an arcade game, but was later released on the NES in 1987 by Tecmo. It's a 16-stage platformer, but it has some light puzzle elements to it as well. The main puzzle is: "How do I avoid dying horribly?" It is not always solvable.

Mighty Bomb Jack throws a lot of bullshit at the player, some of which has to be seen to be believed, and much that cannot be seen because it's invisible stuff that you have to find through trial and error and is also required to complete the game with the best ending.

That said, I think it's a fun game, in moderation. The jumping physics are what make this game worthwhile to me, as they're actually extremely precise allowing for some seriously cool aerial maneuvers. It's also been released on both the Wii Virtual Console and, very recently, the 3DS Virtual Console as well if you want to play along!

Levels 1 through 3
Levels 4 through 6
Levels 7 through 10
Levels 11 through 13
Levels 14-?

KingEffingFrost fucked around with this message at Jan 14, 2013 around 04:52

Six Of Spades
Oct 24, 2010

"...That too is according to my calculations."


Huh. And now the game Mighty Jill Off makes so much more sense. Though that game was kind enough to give you infinite lives.

Stanfield
Feb 2, 2008

...Can we have the radio?


Bovineicide posted:

Please tell me that Slowbeef and Billy M.C. will be tag-teaming Lost Levels at some point, because that would be loving glorious.

Clearly Slowbeef is doing Battletoads and Diabetus is doing The Immortal.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012


Holy crap, Silver Surfer. I was a comics geek from early on (dropped the habit in my teens) and that was the very first marvel-character game I got as a gift when I was 10 or so.

I went at that game with something like religious zeal. It laughed at my inept childish persistence and bitch-slapped me twice before sending me off.

Kefit
May 16, 2006
layl


Oho, this thread is relevant to my interests. I love me a good hard game, though I do hope that this thread is a bit less NES oriented than the pretty banner suggests. Modern indie/doujin games pull off difficult gaming with much better results than anything I can think of from the NES era. Nothing from back then can hold a candle to modern marriages of superb game design and extreme difficulty like Super Meat Boy or the tragically obscure Asakura! P. Whereas difficulty used to be a consequence of poor design and a need for a short game to entertain a kid for a longer period of time, now it's often a distinct design goal in and of itself.

Anyway I've got a video that should fit right into this thread, but I see the game it's from is already represented in the thread banner. As such I think I'll wait until that game has already been covered to post it.

Also I owned Mighty Bomb Jack as a kid and I never had any idea what I was doing in it. Ever. I thought I got pretty far, but years later I would learn that I didn't have the tiniest clue about all the arcane hidden poo poo you need to find to get the real ending!

Kefit fucked around with this message at Dec 18, 2012 around 10:29

Dectilon
Aug 15, 2008

Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of LP, and that the Lord thy Master brought thee out thence through mighty balls and a stretched out dive.
Dectilon 5:15


I somehow forgot that 'Betus had me and Phiggle on his podcast a little while ago.

a spooky ghost
Jan 1, 2010

stay the same never change



People interested in a thread like this, people playing some tough games but not so they can pretend to be really angry, should check this out. I actually listened to it just yesterday and thought a lot of what you and Phiggle talked about was really interesting.

Specifically, a lot of your ideas Dectilon, about approaching games a puzzles with reflexes, were just really respectfully and intelligently submitted. I want to try and keep some of those things in mind the next time I get stuck playing whatever.

Dectilon
Aug 15, 2008

Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of LP, and that the Lord thy Master brought thee out thence through mighty balls and a stretched out dive.
Dectilon 5:15


Aw, that's very nice of you to say

Phiggle
Apr 26, 2007

And so, having defeated the nefarious Psy-Crow, our hero, Earthworm Jim, wins back the heart of the lovely COW





VVVVVV Official Website

VVVVVV is a first-rate indie platformer made in a Commodore 64 style. It was released in early 2010 by Terry Cavanagh (website), a guy known for a bunch of other indie games including his latest, Super Hexagon.

The first challenge of VVVVVV is pronouncing it. Say "the letter V six times," say "Vee," say "Vee-Six," or if you want (my personal preference), just make a loud "vuv" sound lasting at least 6 seconds. That should do it. Anyway, once you've got that down, the second challenge is a speedrun to go get the flat-out amazing soundtrack, PPPPPP, by Magnus "Souleye" Pålsson. You can preview it on Bandcamp right here.

I am linking PPPPPP again here in case you missed it because it is that good.

Of course, the main challenge of the game is the platforming. It's a really thorough exploration of a one-button mechanic: rather than jump, the protagonist flips his gravity, walking along ceilings, floors, and tiny, tiny platforms as needed to make progress. The level design adds elements that combine with the flipping mechanic to keep things difficult and interesting without changing the core gameplay. Deaths are common, but checkpoints are all over the place. On the one hand, this means you don't need to worry about losing a lot of hard-earned progress to deaths. On the other, the frequent checkpoints give the levels a chance to present surprises and strong challenges back-to-back. Even though some parts of the game may make you want to claw your eyes out as a result, like that one shiny trinket, you always feel like you're just one step away from a breakthrough. That's the kind of hard game I love.

What you can expect from this LP
I'll show off all the levels and trinkets as well as other little secrets as best I can. This will involve a little backtracking, but I'll keep it tight. I may also show some choice player-created levels. If I've missed a big secret or something you really like by the time we clear the game, let me know! There are also some notorious challenges in this game, including a certain part with a timer that I am terrible at. I'll record the best runs I can of those segments. If you can do better, then by all means show off, but please don't show them until the LP gets there.

Let's go!


The main tunes you heard this time:
Presenting VVVVVV | Pushing Onwards


This time you heard:
Passion for Exploring | Potential for Anything


You heard these again:
Passion for Exploring | Pushing Onwards


This time you heard:
Predestined Fate


This time you heard:
Pressure Cooker


This time you heard:
Positive Force


You heard this again:
Positive Force


You heard these and they are great:
Predestined Fate | Positive Force | Popular Potpourri


Cool tracks:
Plenary | Pipe Dream


Your favorite intermission track:
Predestined Fate



BONUS: Watch as Apt Funk V-ranks the time trials!













BONUS: unpronounceable speedruns the hell out of Intermission 1!
Click here for the video and tactics!


BONUS: Kefit cleared No Death Mode
Click here for the post!

Phiggle fucked around with this message at Dec 2, 2013 around 11:47

Kefit
May 16, 2006
layl


The reflex platforming puzzle approach is how I've been thinking of difficult precision based platformers for some time now. This is why I don't take any issue with a game like IWBTG forcing you to die a few times to figure out the "solution" to a room. It's all a fun part of the process for me, and so long save points are frequent then there's no problem. And hey, if the deaths are clever enough to make me laugh then that's simply a bonus. Then, once I learn the game, it can be quite fun to return and do a run through with fewer save points. Ultimately, the fewer the save points, the more the player is required to fully understand each challenge in his path. To me that can mean a great deal of fun so long as presented with the proper balance.

VVVVVV is actually a very difficult game, mostly due to the speed at which Captain Viridian moves. But the massive number of save points (often multiple on a single small screen) makes the game much more approachable for the vast majority of players. Unfortunately this had the opposite effect on me. I never felt much sense of accomplishment in my progression. It felt more like blundering through until I got lucky enough to hit that next save point rather than a process of learning and synthesizing a level segment under my own power. However, I returned to the game several times over the years, and runs at some of the challenge modes made me realize just how expertly designed the levels are once removed from the dulling effect of all those checkpoints.

I don't really expect this view to be popular, but it accurately reflects my VVVVVV play experience. I'll probably have a bit more to say as the LP goes on.

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~


There's also custom levels that you can play if you want other challenges; one I played had zero checkpoints, and was incredibly fun.

mrbasehart
Jul 19, 2010


The soundtracks for VVVVVV and Silver Surfer are awesome.

Admiral H. Curtiss
May 11, 2010

I think there are a bunch of people who can create trailing images. I know some who could do this as if they were just going out for a stroll.



Is there anything you could do about both yours and your co-commentator's audio? Because both sound kinda bad, like they were recorded with a terrible microphone and/or over a low quality Skype call.

MeccaPrime
May 11, 2010



Pray for my soul as I attempt something truly difficult.



Sub-Terrania is a game that was released back in the early nineties for the Sega Genesis (Megadrive). It is notoriously hard to play even on the normal difficulty (so much so that I thought I was doing hard mode back when I first did the LP of this game). I've decided to revisit it and do it justice by actually finishing it in hard mode. At its core, it is a SHMUP, but only in the sense that you pilot a ship and you shoot things, it gets different from there. It is a free-roaming SHMUP that adds gravity and fuel consumption into the mix. Not only do you have to fight enemies, but you have to worry about running out of gas and falling to your inevitable death(s).

Points of note:
1: The enemies want you dead
2: The environment wants you dead
3: Gravity wants you dead
4: Even your own ship wants you dead
5: The game developers want you IRL dead

With that in mind, let's get going!

Missions 1-4: Youtube

I think I can get this wrapped up in three videos max.

Enjoy!

Bellmaker
Oct 18, 2008

Chapter DOOF


MeccaPrime posted:

SUBTERRANIA

This looks a lot like Solar Jetman for the NES. Including the "everything wants you dead" theme.

And yes, Silver Surfer's music is face-meltingly awesome for an NES game. I mean drat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J0H5ah1G7A

Shabadu
Jul 18, 2003

rain dance

I love Sub-Terrania. It was one of the inaugural Awful Games Done Quick from AGDQ (speeddemosarchive's charity speedrun marathon). The game is notorious for the RNG deciding to roll back to back critical failures on pretty much everything.

It is also incredibly technically challenging and pretty dang unique for its time, and not at all an awful game. Just one that hates you.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006


MeccaPrime posted:

Pray for my soul as I attempt something truly difficult.



Sub-Terrania is a game that was released back in the early nineties for the Sega Genesis (Megadrive). It is notoriously hard to play even on the normal difficulty (so much so that I thought I was doing hard mode back when I first did the LP of this game). I've decided to revisit it and do it justice by actually finishing it in hard mode. At its core, it is a SHMUP, but only in the sense that you pilot a ship and you shoot things, it gets different from there. It is a free-roaming SHMUP that adds gravity and fuel consumption into the mix. Not only do you have to fight enemies, but you have to worry about running out of gas and falling to your inevitable death(s).

Points of note:
1: The enemies want you dead
2: The environment wants you dead
3: Gravity wants you dead
4: Even your own ship wants you dead
5: The game developers want you IRL dead

With that in mind, let's get going!

Missions 1-4: Youtube

I think I can get this wrapped up in three videos max.

Enjoy!

I loving loved this game as a kid but drat does it get bullshit in places. Between the part where the gravity finally decides it's through with your poo poo and the gigantic final level it was a real mindfuck as a 10 year old with no internet.

E: wow, you spent all that time going after the life on level 2 but didn't go grab the first actual weapon upgrade of the game.

dis astranagant fucked around with this message at Dec 20, 2012 around 06:19

Dectilon
Aug 15, 2008

Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of LP, and that the Lord thy Master brought thee out thence through mighty balls and a stretched out dive.
Dectilon 5:15


Sub-Terrania looks like a neat game that's moving a little too fast. Maybe that has to do with the difficulty setting?

If the music is done by the same composer as Adventures of batman and robin (which was awesome) it would be by Jesper Kyd. He works for Ubisoft now I think.

MeccaPrime
May 11, 2010



dis astranagant posted:

E: wow, you spent all that time going after the life on level 2 but didn't go grab the first actual weapon upgrade of the game.

Yeah, by the time I got the extra life, I was kind of done with that bullshit and didn't really want to deal with the springy spiky thing down by the upgrade that kills you in one hit if you're not careful. (I actually forgot about it, sorry. I did grab the one during Mission 1, though ).


Dectilon posted:

Sub-Terrania looks like a neat game that's moving a little too fast. Maybe that has to do with the difficulty setting?

It seems like it's moving too fast because (I think) the gravity has a greater effect in hard mode than normal. It's hard to convey that in video; it's really a game you have to try out for yourself to get a feel for it.

Dectilon posted:

If the music is done by the same composer as Adventures of batman and robin (which was awesome) it would be by Jesper Kyd. He works for Ubisoft now I think.

YES! That was the game I was thinking of; the name eluded me at the time. Sub-Terrania was actually Jasper's first "full" game as he had been working on demos before that. More information on him is on his Wikipedia page.

Dectilon
Aug 15, 2008

Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of LP, and that the Lord thy Master brought thee out thence through mighty balls and a stretched out dive.
Dectilon 5:15




Level 2 - BATTLESHIP
Boss timeout - Death
Boss timeout - Tetran
Boss timeout - Big Core
Boss timeout - Big Core Mk.2

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

the cyberpunk dystopia is now
you are not the runner


Clever Betty

Gradius V is so pretty

Phiggle
Apr 26, 2007

And so, having defeated the nefarious Psy-Crow, our hero, Earthworm Jim, wins back the heart of the lovely COW




Good videos! Check the banner
(may not happen for every game depending on my level of competence)

MeccaPrime
May 11, 2010



Phiggle posted:

Good videos! Check the banner
(may not happen for every game depending on my level of competence)

You're a wizard!

(Also seconding Gradius V's design; it looks amazing!

cozyduck
Feb 16, 2011


The Level 2 boss rush in Gradius V gets even greater in higher loops!
Are you planning to show anything regarding that in future videos, Dectilon?

Dectilon
Aug 15, 2008

Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of LP, and that the Lord thy Master brought thee out thence through mighty balls and a stretched out dive.
Dectilon 5:15


A little bit, but I'm just not good enough at the game yet to do it justice on higher loops.

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SuperRube
Oct 19, 2012


You know, I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that Gradius V uses the same graphical engine that Ikuruga does. If nothing else I know they're both made by Treasure.

And I'm loving the LP of Graidus V so far but goddamn if I don't want to sperg out about you calling the bosses the wrong thing. (The boss of level 2 is Bigcore Mk 4 and Death first appeared in Salamander and yes I know I have no life shut uuuuuup)

Seriously though, I really like your take on the level design and whatnot. Really liking the idea for the whole thread overall really.

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