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COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Sub Rosa posted:

I'm not in York Rite but the historical Templar had non-Christian members. Saladin himself in fact.

Yeah, I joined the York Rite justifying it to myself as "well, yeah of course I'll defend the Christian faith, I'll defend anyone's right to practice their religion". And the lessons of the degrees and orders in the York Rite are really good (I mean, I literally wrote the book on it for North Carolina, and was a district inspector instructor for the KT). So I don't want it to come off like I'm trying to dissuade anyone from joining if they feel it's right for them.

Just don't be surprised if you join and meet a lot of brothers who are like "FINALLY a space where I can be as unabashedly anti-Muslim as I want!"

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Emron
Aug 2, 2005



COOL CORN posted:

Yeah, I joined the York Rite justifying it to myself as "well, yeah of course I'll defend the Christian faith, I'll defend anyone's right to practice their religion". And the lessons of the degrees and orders in the York Rite are really good (I mean, I literally wrote the book on it for North Carolina, and was a district inspector instructor for the KT). So I don't want it to come off like I'm trying to dissuade anyone from joining if they feel it's right for them.

Just don't be surprised if you join and meet a lot of brothers who are like "FINALLY a space where I can be as unabashedly anti-Muslim as I want!"

Yeah, I thought I would be down to try presiding in all York bodies, but Commandery is easily where I see the most overt anti-Islam sentiment, to the point where Iím going to ask for a dimit and most likely never come back. Chapter and Council work fine for me, thanks.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Other templar bodies, like the one I'm in, require explicit Christianity. Technically I qualify even as a christopagan since I uphold the Christian god, follow Yeshua ben Yusuf's teachings, and believe in the Trinity but I'm definitely an edge case.

BONESAWWWWWW
Dec 23, 2009




Hell Gem

What about Royal Arch? Does anyone have experience with that?

What I really like most about masonry is the history and symbolism. Royal Arch sounds to me like the furthest extension of that idea.

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

BONESAWWWWWW posted:

What about Royal Arch? Does anyone have experience with that?

What I really like most about masonry is the history and symbolism. Royal Arch sounds to me like the furthest extension of that idea.

Yeah, the Royal Arch is, in many ways, the "completion" of the basic Masonic degrees. I think both the capitular degrees and the cryptic degrees are magnificent.

Emron
Aug 2, 2005



BONESAWWWWWW posted:

What about Royal Arch? Does anyone have experience with that?

What I really like most about masonry is the history and symbolism. Royal Arch sounds to me like the furthest extension of that idea.

Iím very involved in my Chapter (the body that confers RA), and I really like it. My chapter does a cool thing of getting special dispensation to perform the Mark Master degree in a local cavern each year, which rules, and I recently have begun performing a lecture in the RA degree called The Journey that is one of my favorite pieces of Masonic ritual.

It is in no way affected by the religious requirements of Templary. Itís more like a sequel to the blue lodge degrees. Council is the prequel.

Bargearse
Nov 27, 2006

Don't get your pen, son, you won't be needing that. My order's simple, a shitload of dim sims. And I want a bucket of soya sauce.


On the way to visit my first lodge, here goes!

Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

I've noticed references to Freemasonry in comic book author Alan Moore's stuff. And that guy claims to be a wizard. I don't think he's joking. Is wizardry acceptable in Masonry or is that sort of thing frowned upon?

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003






Fallen Rib

Esoteric Masonry is out of vogue but it's certainly still a thing. Aleister Crowley's original stuff included the first three degrees until UGLE told him to knock it off. They're pretty sympatico, but it's by no means a focus of modern Masonry.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Animal-Mother posted:

I've noticed references to Freemasonry in comic book author Alan Moore's stuff. And that guy claims to be a wizard. I don't think he's joking. Is wizardry acceptable in Masonry or is that sort of thing frowned upon?
Abjuration and greater divination: Yes
Invoc/evoc, enchantment/charm, necromancy: Situational
All others: No
Caprimancy: Mandatory

I believe that Alan Moore is in one of those weird chaos-magician situations where he doesn't not believe in magic, even when he is performing occult rites.

Some people have said they would have issues accepting a Mason whose religious belief was rooted in Thelema (Crowley's religious framework). I don't think interest in occult stuff would be a big issue...

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Animal-Mother posted:

I've noticed references to Freemasonry in comic book author Alan Moore's stuff. And that guy claims to be a wizard. I don't think he's joking. Is wizardry acceptable in Masonry or is that sort of thing frowned upon?

This depends on your local lodge's attitudes and your local Grand Lodge's constitutions and directives. Mine, for instance, prohibits discussing the hermetica, the kabbalah, and the occult at Masonic events - even in the context of exploring the connections between the two historically.

However, there are plenty of us out there who are both wizardy types and Masons - indeed, most of the prominent hermetic and thelemic authors who can be are or were, as Masonry provides an initiatic spark and framework of veiling suitable for esoteric purposes. My lodge of old, conservative men are quite entirely untroubled by my open esoteric interests and mysticism - even to the extent that they invited me to join the Templar, which here is a seperate organization entirely from the American style lumping-in with the York.

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Yep, my old blue lodge is absolutely full of conservative Christians, and their eyes all glazed over when I tried to present a paper I wrote on the kabbalistic themes of Freemasonry, but there's a Traditional Observance lodge in NC that's much more interested in the esoteric/hermetic/ritualistic history of it all, and was super into the paper.

So... it's definitely still a "thing", you just have to find the right crowd.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



Loomer posted:

the Templar, which here is a seperate organization entirely from the American style lumping-in with the York.

This perks my ears. Not that I'm very sure of the difference, but is that org concordant, appendant, or in amity with your Grand Lodge?

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Sub Rosa posted:

This perks my ears. Not that I'm very sure of the difference, but is that org concordant, appendant, or in amity with your Grand Lodge?

Appendant, I believe, would be the correct term - at least in the sense that we must remain members of a Blue Lodge to retain our membership in the Priory. Our actual terminology is fraternal agreement. Recently it also became a regulation that we must have been admitted to the Royal Arch prior to becoming a Templar, bringing us closer to the American style while retaining distinct identities between orders, but for those of us who joined in the interim years that's waived. We also have a distinct body in the Scottish Great Priory, alongside a Scottish Rite Templar degree, neither of which I am involved with but which are both also in fraternal agreement.

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Last night I sat in lodge for the first time in 3 years - in a new state (PA), in a new part of the country, with about 30 other brothers who welcomed me as if I'd been a member there all my life. Immediately, I remembered why I had joined in the first place, and what I loved about the craft.

Also I found out that next year, they're doing a 3rd degree in Washington's headquarters on the Brandywine battlefield, and they're using Washington's bible that he was entered/passed/raised on. THAT is cool.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



I actually also sat in lodge for the first time in about the same amount of time. I can't say I was welcomed quite that warmly, but it was the most warmly since I moved away from my mother lodge.

Emron
Aug 2, 2005



I just wrapped up my second year in the east on Monday. Happy to say I was not elected or installed as WM again. I did, however, start a term as a district education officer, which is a GL appointed office in my jurisdiction that helps train lodge officers and provide education resources for the district.

Robotnik Nudes
Jul 8, 2013



I've been following this thread for a while and I'm goat-curious. I was wondering a few things:

What's the situation for Mason-ing like in Ohio? Specifically the Columbus area. I've heard some jurisdictions are better than others. (I've heard bad things about Georgia specifically) and Im under the impression the big head hooty toots in Ohio might not recognize the Albert Hall Masons, which I think would be a deal breaker. A lot of guys in Masonry seem like very good guys dedicated to some excellent ideals, but it seems like it can also have some issues with race, but very dependent on jurisdiction.

My spiritual leanings are pretty Hermetic with a Thelemic leaning and I understand that probably wouldn't be an issue, but I'd be very interested to meet some Kabbalah study buddies. How much would Masonry facilitate that vs independent study or say the A:.A:.?

Do I have to know a local Mason irl to sit in or get inducted, or do Masons on the Wired count for a recommendation?

Is there room in Masonry for someone a little on the scumfucc side of things, or is it pretty buttoned up?

How long will it take me before I get to gently caress the goat?

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Robotnik Nudes posted:

I've been following this thread for a while and I'm goat-curious. I was wondering a few things:

What's the situation for Mason-ing like in Ohio? Specifically the Columbus area. I've heard some jurisdictions are better than others. (I've heard bad things about Georgia specifically) and Im under the impression the big head hooty toots in Ohio might not recognize the Albert Hall Masons, which I think would be a deal breaker. A lot of guys in Masonry seem like very good guys dedicated to some excellent ideals, but it seems like it can also have some issues with race, but very dependent on jurisdiction.
Minor correction: Prince Hall Masons, but I'm not sure of Ohio's situation. I will say that most Northern jurisdictions are on good terms with the PHA masons as far as I'm aware.

Robotnik Nudes posted:

My spiritual leanings are pretty Hermetic with a Thelemic leaning and I understand that probably wouldn't be an issue, but I'd be very interested to meet some Kabbalah study buddies. How much would Masonry facilitate that vs independent study or say the A:.A:.?
As someone who has written a LOT about the Hermetic/Kabbalistic factors of Masonry, there's a LOT there. Because of Masonry's blue collar attraction, a lot of that has waned over the years, and a lot of lodges have turned into basically just a fraternity with barbecues and pancake breakfasts. BUT... what is it they say, when the student is ready the teacher will appear? Make yourself available, and other likeminded individuals will gravitate toward you

Robotnik Nudes posted:

Do I have to know a local Mason irl to sit in or get inducted, or do Masons on the Wired count for a recommendation?
You have to have someone from the lodge you're petitioning sign your petition. Usually that's as easy as showing up to the lodge on one of their stated meeting nights and saying "hey guys I'm interested, mind if I stay for dinner?"

Robotnik Nudes posted:

Is there room in Masonry for someone a little on the scumfucc side of things, or is it pretty buttoned up?
Dress code varies by lodge, anything from jeans and a polo shirt to tuxedos, but I'm very heavily pierced and tattooed so that aspect of things isn't as big a deal. It's the inside we look at, not the outside. (Well, that's the idea at least. Mileage varies from brother to brother)

Robotnik Nudes posted:

How long will it take me before I get to gently caress the goat?

Emron
Aug 2, 2005



Robotnik Nudes posted:

I've been following this thread for a while and I'm goat-curious. I was wondering a few things:

What's the situation for Mason-ing like in Ohio? Specifically the Columbus area. I've heard some jurisdictions are better than others. (I've heard bad things about Georgia specifically) and Im under the impression the big head hooty toots in Ohio might not recognize the Albert Hall Masons, which I think would be a deal breaker. A lot of guys in Masonry seem like very good guys dedicated to some excellent ideals, but it seems like it can also have some issues with race, but very dependent on jurisdiction.

My spiritual leanings are pretty Hermetic with a Thelemic leaning and I understand that probably wouldn't be an issue, but I'd be very interested to meet some Kabbalah study buddies. How much would Masonry facilitate that vs independent study or say the A:.A:.?

Do I have to know a local Mason irl to sit in or get inducted, or do Masons on the Wired count for a recommendation?

Is there room in Masonry for someone a little on the scumfucc side of things, or is it pretty buttoned up?

How long will it take me before I get to gently caress the goat?

PM me.

TurdBurgles
Sep 17, 2007

I AM WHITE AND PLAY NA FLUTE ON TRIBAL LANDS WITH NO GUILT.

I'm JW now, does anyone have any forms for estimating quantities of food for events or useful large group recipes? Also any advice on coordinating groups of contributors would be appreciated.

Bargearse
Nov 27, 2006

Don't get your pen, son, you won't be needing that. My order's simple, a shitload of dim sims. And I want a bucket of soya sauce.


At a Christmas party for a lodge in Melbourne, theyíre some of the kindest and most welcoming people Iíve ever met.

Apparently my name was read out in lodge for the first time last month, and if all goes well Iím looking at possibly doing my first degree in April next year. This lodge has had a sudden influx of younger guys joining and itís great to see.

Bel Shazar
Sep 14, 2012


COOL CORN posted:

Yeah, exactly. And even if you justify it to yourself, you're going to be publicly defending the Christian religion, praying to Jesus during meeting, wearing crosses all over your garb. It's not like blue lodge masonry where a nebulous belief in a higher power is good enough.

Not to say you wouldn't get anything out of it. If it works for you, great!

Eh, if everyone is cool with me I'm cool with it. We do all that at church, too. Same deal there, really. They're cool with me, I'm cool with it.

Old Dirty Cumburgs
Jan 15, 2011



Gravy Boat 2k

Huh, so I kinda got voted in as Junior Warden, which was not how I was told the election of officers was going to go. That's pretty fun.

Purple Prince
Aug 20, 2011


Anyone here know how regular the Grand Lodge of China is? I am moving to Taiwan and would be interested in connecting with them but information in English is patchy.

I'm not a brother but have been interested for a few years now.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



Appears to be regular, but also requires you to have been living in their jurisdiction for a year to join.

Micr0chiP
Mar 17, 2007


Anyone from Portugal?
I'm thinking about joining, but from some small probing that I made with some friends (ex-politicians, artists) it seems that over here it's by invitation only and a hush hush matter.

As far as I can see on the web, there are two main lodges, one seems to be the "normal one" and the other is a lodge with the old and primitive rites of Memphis Misraim (both sites are in Portuguese)

They seem both to be regular, and I'm guessing that your answers will be that it depends of what I want of it.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



Memphis Misraim is something I think is really cool, but it would be news to me if it was regular rather than clandestine in any jurisdiction.

Micr0chiP
Mar 17, 2007


Yeah, after researching a bit it seems that theres a fight between the regular and the Memphis Misraim lodges, because the Memphis Misraim lodge has the letter of acceptance(?) from the French lodges and the regular one has that letter from England.
That's my understanding from an outsider and a quick search.
Found an article speaking about the GMs from both lodges trading blows about the acceptance of the Memphis Misraim in the regular masonry. 🤨

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

The lodges in the US trace their lineage back to the United Grand Lodge of England, so if you're looking for something that us US Masons would consider "regular", that would be the answer.

Emron
Aug 2, 2005



Am I insane for considering writing to the grand lodges of guys who I see putting up stuff like this on social

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Uh, nah, not at all. Hell I'll write them too

Maksimus54
Jan 5, 2011


Emron posted:

Am I insane for considering writing to the grand lodges of guys who I see putting up stuff like this on social



That's gross. Write away, I don't think you're crazy. I just hope their GL actually cares about that stuff.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



Totally unsurprised that is the town that previously hosted the KKK museum and gift shop

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Yeah, I'm an admitted pessimist, after trying to talk some sense into people down in NC. It was right after the Parkland school shooting I think and the GL wanted to start hosting gun raffles to benefit the children's home. Unrelated, but I thought it was tasteless timing. Also I thought it went against the whole philosophy behind "bringing nothing offensive or defensive into the lodge" by having a contest to give guns to your brethren.

But I was shot down and called a liberal snowflake so what do I know

Anyway, I'll always fight the good fight, and you all should too.

COOL CORN fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jan 17, 2020

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Quote is not edit!

Emron
Aug 2, 2005



I see a ton of horrible poo poo from masons on social regarding Islam, but I think it's pretty cut and dry for a GL to deal with when they specifically portray their lodge and the fraternity overall as backing it.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



Forget social media, the really terrible stuff was the stuff I heard in person since after all, amongst your brothers sworn to secrecy is a safe place to say all the racial slurs, right?

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Sub Rosa posted:

Forget social media, the really terrible stuff was the stuff I heard in person since after all, amongst your brothers sworn to secrecy is a safe place to say all the racial slurs, right?

Yeah very same experience here.

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Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Emron posted:

I see a ton of horrible poo poo from masons on social regarding Islam, but I think it's pretty cut and dry for a GL to deal with when they specifically portray their lodge and the fraternity overall as backing it.

I remember reading somewhere, ages ago, that the architecture of Islam's golden age had a significant influence on Freemasonry.

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