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Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







TL; DR
All consumer TV models have Smart Features now, and in most cases it is the actual UI. Get used to it.
A/V cables? - MONOPRICE. Note: HDMI 2.1 requires cables with a 48gbps spec.
Lowest input lag for VIDEO GAMES? - Display Lag or Rtings.
Value-for-money? - Hisense ULED 8/9 series, TCL 6/8 series Vizio OLED/M(7)/P series, Black Friday/Boxing Day deals for Sony (9 series).
MORE INCHES PER DOLLAR? - TCL 4/5 series, Hisense 7/8 series ULED, LG stuff, models on clearance.
Money is no object?: Sony/LG OLED, Samsung 8K, Vizio P-Series Quantum X, Sony 950H, TCL 8 Series.
How do I calibrate the harlequin-rear end colour balance of my TV? - Check Rtings, CNET, and AVForums for general settings, and/or DIY with test patterns on Youtube. (See the Second Post).
Up to date as of June 2020.

HDTVs, the big-rear end screens for your gaming, streaming, and yes, even cable, satellite, and broadcast television viewing needs!


A true visionary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQJ4v8QkEAw

Introduction:
Televisions have come a long way since their invention (utilizing a glass cathode ray tube) around a century ago. Hell, they've come a long way in the last ten years alone. CRTs? DEAD. Rear Projection? DEAD. DLP? DEAD. Plasma? DEAD. CCFL backed LCD? DEAD. 3DTVs? You better believe it’s DEAD. SCART video? S-Video? Component video!? DEAD. DEAD. DEAD. Projectors? Still alive, and NOT MY DEPARTMENT. It’s been seven years since I updated this OP, and the technology for TV displays is still changing. The once-new poo poo is now the cheap poo poo. Colours, contrast, and input lag has, in general, improved across the board. The competition’s race to the bottom has driven down prices; where a 50”, 1080p television used to be a $1000 or more, now you can get a 65", 2160p (“4K”) unit for USD $500 or less, and while it won’t be great, it will be fine. What are all these abbreviations, you may be asking? LCD, LED, OLED, ULED, QLED, mini/μLED? The gently caress? IPS, S-IPS, PLS, VA, SVA? What is pixel response time vs. input lag? What are the good brands? How can you have a “dirty screen” when it’s brand new? And HDMI has version numbers?

Well, this OP and the posters of SA will help to answer those questions and more.


The Technology: Flat Panel Displays

LCD
LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) is the panel type used. LED (Light-Emitting Diode) is the backlighting solution that replaced CCFL (Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lightbulbs), used to shine light through and illuminate the panel. The pixels in an LCD display do not emit their own light, and need a separate light source. This places a limit on the darkest a scene can become as you need some light for the rest of the image. There are multiple LCD panel designs and backlighting solutions, each with their strengths and weaknesses. Quantum Dot, i.e., QLED, “SUHD™” (Samsung - deprecated), “ULED™” (Hisense), “NanoCell™” (LG), etc. displays are a new type of colour filter layer placed overtop the LCD layer, providing both more colours and even better accuracy, while blocking less light to illuminate the image. A blue LED backlight shines through the filter to also create red and green with little to no interference with each other. In combination with IPS and VA panels, this is the current state of the art in LCDs with respect to colour.


The Panels:
IPS/S-IPS - In-Plane Switching/Super In-Plane Switching - LG-made panels. Great colour accuracy, better contrast than TN, Pixel response times good enough for 60/120Hz, widest viewing angles for an LCD panel, worst black levels. Good for lit rooms.
Note: LG is one of the largest LCD panel manufacturers in the world, you can find their panels in many other television brands at all price levels.
PLS - Plane-to-Line-Switching - Technically different from an IPS panel, but still similar in performance characteristics. The Sony X800H is an example.
VA/SVA - Vertical/Super Vertical Alignment - Great colour accuracy, best-in-class contrast ratios and black levels, worst-in-class pixel response times (can appear as a “smearing” effect noticeable in FPS games), and viewing angles. VA panels are made by a different manufacturers, with Samsung owning the SVA trademark; a variation that has improved viewing angles at the cost of a reduced native contrast ratio.
Note: Samsung is ending their VA/SVA LCD panel production at the end of fiscal year 2020.

The Backlighting:
Backlit - One big LED panel. The dark areas will never really be truly dark. The bargain bin option. This will be less noticeable if the TV is mostly used in a well lit room.
Edge Lit - The edges of the screen have an LED array. This is the budget to mid-range option. Improved contrast (in general) over backlit. Edge Lit Arrays can be segmented to allow a more dynamic manipulation of the brightness.
Full Array Local Dimming - A grid of LED panels behind the LCD screen which independently illuminate their zone for an increase in “effective” contrast based on the image displayed. Can range from dozens of panels to thousands. More panels reduce the size of the “bloom” (unintended light bleed) effect of lighting an area surrounded by a dark one.
MicroLED - This is the new poo poo as of 2019/2020: Every pixel has its own microscopic LED light, allowing for a theoretical black level of zero/infinite. Full Array on steroids. A version incorporating quantum dot colour filtering (“QD-LED”) is in the early stages as of 2020.

OLED
The most accurate colours, the widest colour gamut, the deepest blacks, the fastest response times, the thinnest chassis designs, the highest prices, the… worst image burn-in? Yeah, the potential exists. The compounds used to emit coloured light via current are organic, and decay over time. Televisions which repeatedly display the same colours and/or brightness levels in isolated areas can, over time, show a noticeable difference when a uniform colour is displayed onscreen over the affected area. However, if you use all the mitigation strategies included in your panel's settings, keep the brightness down a little, and reasonably vary your media use, you'll get many years out of it. While Quantum Dot LCD displays can exceed the brightness, have the biggest screen sizes, and won’t suffer any form of image degradation, OLED just whips rear end everywhere else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOcLasaRCzY

Audio
As a result of the industry’s chase to produce the thinnest display possible, the built-in audio solution for flat panel televisions is, to put it politely, loving crap. You’re talking 5-20 watt (40 watts on select high end models) single-driver downward/rearward firing speakers. With no room for a resonance chamber, or woofer, bass is non-existent, mids are typically muted, and highs distort very easily at volume. You will want a separate audio solution.


Smart TV Features
Once rare, all displays have this now, as streaming media via app continues its market growth unabated. The various solutions include but may not be limited to: Roku, Android TV, Apple TV, or a proprietary solution (e.g., Tizen). Manufacturers may or may not have advertising, voice activation, Wii-like motion controls, and who knows what other bullshit in the UI. This can differ even between the model lines of a single manufacturer, and even between updates on a single model. This poo poo is very much Subject To Change.
Note: Hisense has announced both Roku and Android TV SKUs as of CES 2020.
Note 2: Android TV has separate image settings for each input and each app. In addition, some apps only show their HDR settings when HDR content is being played, otherwise it defaults to SDR (e.g., Amazon Prime).


Glossary of Terms

Standard Definition - 480i (NTSC) or 576i (PAL) interlaced horizontal lines of resolution in CRT displays, it now means 480p (progressive) horizontal lines.

High Definition - Anything above that ^, and as of ~2019, anything above 720p, too.

SDR - Standard Dynamic Range. An industry standard for luminance and colour range in media content that can be calibrated for.

HDR - High Dynamic Range. A very loose set of standards for luminosity and colour gamut that’s followed by the industry about as closely as the Pirate’s Code is in the Johnny Depp films.
- HDR10: mastered at 4000 nits, targeting 1000 nit displays, 10-bit Rec.2020 colourspace. If your display can't reach the nit level the media was mastered for (e.g., 1000nits on a 500nit display), highlights above that level will be clipped white.
- Dolby Vision: Mastered at 4k-10k nits, targeting 4k nits, 12-bit Rec.2020 colourspace. Supported content dynamically adjusts its brightness data scene-by-scene to avoid clipping (by talking to your display), and also supports HDR10. It requires a license, so it will be less supported on displays. Most feature films are currently mastered in Dolby Vision.
- HDR10+: Samsung and Amazon version of the Dolby Vision system.
- Advanced HDR by Technicolor: LG & Technicolor version of the Dolby Vision system.
- "HDR Ready": marketing bullshit that means the display will not meet the level of brightness required by the media being played. It may be better than SDR, but will depend on the display in question.
Note: All current consumer television displays are technically incapable of meeting these specifications, as they have anywhere from 300-2000 nits of brightness, and the best only just meet the P3 colourspace (approx. 65-80% of Rec.2020).

Refresh Rate - How many times the display draws an image per second, to give the illusion of continuous motion, measured in Hertz. The industry standards are currently 60Hz or 120Hz. 120Hz evenly divides into 24, 30, 60, and 120, allowing the display of all forms of video content without noticeable “judder” (unevenly repeated frames) during panning shots. 60Hz displays with HDMI 2.0 support the ability to lower to 48Hz, allowing for smooth playback of cinema content.

4:3 - This was the aspect ratio of the vast majority of CRT television displays and the earliest LCD panels.

16:9 - This is the aspect ratio of modern flat panel displays, also known as “Widescreen”

720p - 1280x720 - Once called “HD”, it isn’t considered as such anymore (if Youtube’s image quality settings are any indication). Might still be found on budget screen sizes of 32 inches or less.

1080p - 1920x1080 - Once called “True HD” this is now called “Full HD”. This is a budget resolution and has mostly been phased out by “4K”

4K/4K UHD - 3840x2160 - Ultra High Definition. Four times the pixel density of 1080p, with a data rate to match, if you’re streaming. The current mainstream television resolution sold today, even if the majority of media still doesn’t display it natively. Gotta love marketing.

8K - 7680 × 4320 - See: 4K. While RED Cameras and others can record at this resolution, drat near nothing plays at it natively. When people talk about “Halo products” they mean these.
Note: If you plan on buying a television 75" or larger and for whatever reason don't want to use a projector, this is the resolution to shoot for; maintaining a higher pixel density for upscaled 1080p and 4K content.

HDMI - High Definition Multi-Media Interface. This is a combination (surround) audio and video cable. Versions 1-1.4b Support 1080p60fps and 4K30. HDMI 2.0 supports 4k60 to 1440@120 and E-ARC, HDR, and limited VRR. 2.1 supports 4K120, E-ARC, ALLM, VRR, and 8K60 If I recall correctly.

ARC (HDMI 1-1.4)/E-ARC (HDMI 2/2.1) - Audio/Enhanced Audio Return Channel. This is the HDMI port you connect to your audio solution (typically a soundbar), using your TV as the host for all your media electronics (console, Blu-Ray player, etc.):

ARC does not support Dolby Atmos, or lossless/uncompressed 5.1 and 7.1 surround codecs. E-ARC does. Lip-synch correction is also mandatory with E-ARC instead of optional. The other option is plugging all your devices into an Audio/Video receiver, then plugging that into the television, with the receiver handling all audio duties and passing through the video signal from the source to the television.

ALLM - Auto Low-Latency Mode. A gaming feature which automatically detects a gaming console (PCs too? idk), and improves input latency times by speeding up image processing on its end.

VRR - Variable Refresh Rate. rather than operating at a fixed refresh rate, the display can match the uncapped framerate of a video game being played through the Freesync or G-Sync .APIs, up to the native maximum of the display.

Response Time - Pixel Response Time, generally defined by how fast a pixel can move from one unit grey to the next (GTG). Some manufacturers measure based on white-black-white or vice-versa. This is not a standardized or regulated measurement. Some displays may need to be set to a PC/Gaming/etc. mode to activate a faster response time. The longer a pixel takes to change, the more evident "ghosting" or smearing will become with fast moving objects/sudden panning. Most noticeable in FPS video games. OLED is currently unbeatable in this category.

Input Lag - Input Latency. Not to be confused with response time, this is how quickly a display can take an image frame from a source, process it, and display that frame onscreen. For example, if you hit the jump button on your controller in a game, that signal is sent to the console, which renders an image of you starting to jump, whereby it sends that frame to the television so you can see it happening after the television processes the signal. The faster it can do this, the better. While the human eye generally won’t notice a delay between input and display up to 50 milliseconds, most people are capable of timing button presses (independent of visual feedback) as low as 10. Above 50ms, and it can very quickly start to feel like you are playing drunk, and motion sickness may result.

Soap Opera Effect - A.k.a., Motion Interpolation. Known by many trademarked names, it is a post-processing effect whereby the display inserts new image frames between the originals, effectively doubling/quadrupling the original framerate and leading to smoother motion overall. When film (24fps) or most standard television shows (30fps) are doubled this way, the effect can be off-putting, looking like the 60fps video shot by cheap digital cameras in soap opera programs. In addition, film played at “48”fps doesn’t divide evenly into either a 60Hz or 120Hz panel, and “judder” may become evident.
Note: If you have a 120Hz panel, using this feature for video games locked to 30fps or under (as is common on the Nintendo Switch) will look like 60fps without appreciably affecting input latency.

Crushed Blacks - A.k.a., Black Crush. A tendency of some manufacturers to kill luminance and/or colours when the brightness is lower than 5%, to make the black levels look better/deeper, when it should in fact be showing something, like the dimmer stars in a night sky scene.
Note: Depending on the content, this may be a style choice by the director, or a technological limitation (example: BBC Earth's "Madagascar" documentary).

Clipping - An unintended effect where, when trying to display a scene with a highlight or bright area, the display is incapable of meeting the luminance level required, and everything in the highlight zone is rendered white. Dolby Vision, HDR10+, and Advanced HDR by Technicolor are all designed to avoid this by talking to your display in order to dynamically adjust the maximum luminance of each scene.

Colour Banding - Televisions can’t display perfectly smooth colour gradients. There can be noticeable gaps/bands along the colour and/or grayscale spectrums. The human eye is capable of viewing a range of colours and shades far, far in excess of any industry colour standard currently in use today, and displays lack the processing power or data bandwidth to display that many, even if the panel itself can.

Dirty Screen Effect - Panels aren’t made perfectly uniform, and there may be noticeable discolouration in scenes where large uniform patches of colour (sports, video games, etc.) are displayed. This also includes vignetting (darkening in the corners).


Frequently Asked Questions

Q:) How do I calibrate my TV's picture settings?
A:) Settings on the internet/Youtube, buy a colorimeter, or see the second post below.

Q:) What is a good peak brightness for sunlit rooms/direct sunlight?
A:) Not really an issue anymore

Q:) Where do I buy cheap A/V cables?
A:) It's at the top of the page . https://www.monoprice.com.

Q:) What TV is the best?
A:) The best TV is one that most fits your intended viewing space, limited only by how much you're willing to spend. If money is no object, it’s OLED, as big as you can get it. MicroLED/QD-LED could also be contenders when they hit mass production. Second is Quantum Dot LED, followed by standard LED displays. Value-for-money-spent segment: OLED - LG B9, Sony A8G, QLED - Vizio M/P-Series Quantum, or Hisense H9F/H9G, LED - TCL 615/617.

Q:) What brands are the best?
A:) As of 2020, these are the hot poo poo: Samsung (QLED), LG (OLED), Hisense (QLED), Sony (OLED, QLED), TCL (LED, QLED)- European models may be missing features, Vizio (QLED)

Q:) What brands should I avoid?
A:) Everything else. If you just want stupidly big for stupidly cheap, Hisense, TCL, and LG got you covered, and include all major smart TV platforms.

Q:) What TV is the best for __?
Literally everything on this list except longevity and price - LG C9/E9, and Sony A8G/9G OLED.
Sports - A display with a refresh rate of 120Hz or decent motion interpolation, good screen uniformity (due to large patches of uniform colour, like a field/rink), and vivid colours.
Movies - A 120Hz display with accurate colours, little to no black crush/clipping, a high native contrast ratio with deep, uniform blacks, and a high density full array backlight with a good processing algorithm.
Video games - A display with input latency of 16.6ms or less, the fastest response time possible, HDMI 2.1 for 1440p support, ALLM and VRR.
Contrast - Quantum Dot displays with really good (and bright) full array local dimming. You will definitely need to check reviews on this.
Colour accuracy out of the box - LG, generally.

Q:) I use a 32” Apple Pro Display XDR, and...
A:) Ooh, with or without the USD $999 stand?

Q:) Where else can I go to get answers to my questions?
A:) The internet.

Q:) Should I get the extended/in-store warranty?

A:)

FilthyImp posted:

You get 1 year CostCo warranty after the manufacturer's warranty period. If you use the Costco Visa you get an additional year out of it. Then Squaretrade kicks in.
5-7 years is a pretty good deal.
Note: Burn-in coverage (for OLED panels) is not included, and is a separate expense.

Red Warrior posted:

The Geek Squad protection is generally considered the best out there, and although you aren't concerned about burn-in, is the only one that does specifically cover that, and anecdotally seems to be the easiest to deal with. Squaretrade if you get if for cheap/free is better than nothing but lots of stories of people being asked to settle for way worse TVs as replacements or really having to fight to get repairs or compensation otherwise. For what it's worth LG's own support is supposedly very good and has extended to one time out of warranty replacements but YMMV, don't necessarily expect that, etc.

Q:) What am I going to put my TV on?
A:) Try here: http://www.standsandmounts.com/. And there's always Amazon, Ikea, Wal-Mart, etc.

Q:) Where can I go for reviews?
A:) Rtings, CNET TV Reviews, Flat Panels HD, Quantum OLED Displays, The Tech Giant (UK), Telly Dan (UK), Digital Fernsehen (Germany).

Q:) How do I view my torrented files?
A:) Plex Server or USB key. Televisions support a pretty wide variety of codecs natively.

Q:) Why do my TV's speakers sound like poo poo?
A:) Because they are poo poo. Between 2-20 Watts, downward/rearward firing, and the cheapest that can be mass-produced in their thousands. It wouldn't surprise me if companies have been buying the same speakers since 2003. Mid and upper-range soundbars are good now. Hell, after Samsung bought Harman Kardon they improved their entire lineup across the board (Sound+/Q series). Or get an amp and a pair of speakers from a thrift shop. Guarantee you they'll be better.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Feb 7, 2021

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Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Calibrating Your Television Set By Eye

SDR
1.) First, you need a Test pattern to calibrate your Brightness, Contrast, Colour, and Tint, in that order.
2.) Drop Colour to 0 (monochrome), and raise or lower Brightness until there is only one narrow grey bar near the bottom right (There are two more to its left, and they should not be visible).
3.) Max out Contrast, then do the same thing as 2.
4.) Check the TV's Calibration Settings for an RGB/Blue Only Mode, and set it to Blue. Raise Colour back up the scale until the outer bars match the smaller bar beneath them as closely as possible Note: you may only be able to see one of the outer bars due to the menu.
5.) Raise or lower Tint, doing for the inner bars what you did for the outer bars: making them match the smaller one beneath.
6.) Turn off RGB/Blue only mode. You are now done.
Settings that can affect your calibration: Colour Temperature, Active Contrast, Local Dimming, Gamma, and Colour Space (maybe). If you have a colorimeter, going through the colour tuner to adjust Hue, Saturation, and Brightness for each individually will help you fine tune your results.
Note: Youtube has their own luminance adjusting, so you may still need to futz with your Brightness or Contrast when watching actual content, so nothing is blown out.


Design Flaws

lovely speakers - They all have this. That being said, your TV's speakers should be properly shielded, without an audible hiss from EM or radio interference.
Cracked screen - Typically a shipping accident. This may or may not be more common in display sizes in excess of 55". Check every corner, and always follow setup instructions.
Dead pixels/pixels stuck at one colour - Panels should not have these, and if they do out-of-the-box, the unit should be returned or exchanged. Same with entire lines or areas.
Dirty screen effect - If this is noticeable as uneven patches/streaks even during normal viewing, you should try exchanging the unit for another. While it can be reduced, panel manufacturing cannot yield perfect screen uniformity at this time.
Screen flicker - If it's flickering like a lovely fluorescent bulb at less than 60Hz, something is wrong with the backlight.
Note: The backlight of televisions can refresh at a rate independent of image framerate as a way to control overall brightness (Pulse-Width Modulation or PWM) and some people can be sensitive to it, experiencing headaches/nausea at lower frequencies.
UI issues - Including, but not limited to: forgetting image settings, soft-locking in the television settings/smart TV menus, freezing/stuttering/buffering of streaming video independent of network strength, App cache space filling up and negatively impacting smart TV menu performance, graphical errors such as miscoloured squares or artifacting, and a lovely processor that drops frames and thus doesn't register input commands from the remote.
Audio desynchronization - in HDMI 1-1.4x, Automatic Lip-synch Correction is optional, and you may need to adjust the sound delay on either your TV, AV Receiver, or speaker bar. With HDMI 2.0/2.1, Lip-Synch Correction is mandatory, and it may be worthwhile to upgrade your audio solution.

- I'll add others as I remember them.


Marketing Bullshit

Response Time - measured in milliseconds. Not standardized or regulated. Rtings.com has a fixed standard, but their TV selection is limited (darn Canadians! ). 2, 4, 5, don’t trust any of it.
Contrast Ratios - Not standardized or regulated. the ratio between the luminance of the brightest white and the darkest black that a TV can produce, it is vastly exaggerated by manufacturers. Display technologies like OLED where each pixel emits its own light has an infinite contrast ratio (can’t divide by zero). LCDs, at least by the standard Rtings.com uses, are in the tens of thousands at best, not the “millions to one!!!” claimed by OEMs.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 31, 2020

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Fun Shoe

Thanks for a new thread. Can you change the name though? Maybe put the quip after the title. It's not as easy to grab this at a glance compared to HDTV Megathread.

My 2 cents on plasma models, we own both a mid range LG and Panasonic. The LG was a great price and has some neat smart features (plays back MKV files, etc) but in actual PQ it doesn't hold a candle to the Panasonic. On the other hand the Panasonic has needed service twice in two years which is a bummer. At least they are good about warranty service though, both times it was in-home service and fixed in under a week.

Red Crown
Oct 20, 2008

Pretend my finger's a knife.

I'll put in the first request for a recommendation: I'm looking to spend about $500 or less on a 37" screen that will be primarily used for TV and movies. I have no need for 3D or any features that are much fancier than say, 1080p HD and a couple of HDMI ports. The more reliable, the better.

mcsuede
Dec 30, 2003

Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.
-Greta Garbo

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm looking for a mount like http://www.dynamicmounting.com/ that a) is available b) is cheaper, if possible.

I know the "tv above a fireplace" is a common complaint in IYG but we don't have another mounting position that makes sense and are dreading looking up. This mount style seems perfect.

BabyJesus
Nov 13, 2002


I've never seen the down and out mounts before, but monoprice sells nice mounts at reasonable prices. I've used them twice in the past 3 years to hang tvs and they are easy to install and sturdy.

Nairbo
Jan 2, 2005


FYI your link to CNET in the OP is broken. Hardly a big deal but the https://www. seems to confuse, at least, Chrome.

Great OP though.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Fixed it. Thanks.

Something must be wrong with my 360.
If I use my VGA cable, I can watch DVDs, Netflix and Zune (Yes I rented one. Canada sucks for apps) video fine on my monitor. But if I use any of my 3 HDMI cables (1.3, 2x 1.4), all I get are HDCP errors from both the monitor and my TV. Plays games fine, but anything else is hosed using HDMI. Switched cables around, and all that. poo poo, I even formatted the drive and downloaded my profile again.
I'd use the VGA cable on my TV, but alas, it's too new.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Dec 20, 2012

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007



Never buy Sylvania televisions.

Kloaked00
Jun 21, 2005

I was sitting in my office on that drizzly afternoon listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk and reading my name on the glass of my office door: regnaD kciN

So I'm finalizing which TV I'm going to get myself for Christmas, and I think I'm going to go with a 50" Samsung UN__EH. Using the TV mainly for normal watching, video games and Bluray movies in a moderately bright room Looking between then EH5000 and EH6000 models, they're $100 apart and as far as I can tell the only difference between the two is that the EH5000 has a contrast ration of 3.5 million:1 while the EH6000 has one of 5 million:1. Is there something else that I'm missing between the two, and is that difference something I'd necessarily notice?

themachine
Jun 6, 2003

Welcome to the machine

I posted towards the end of the last thread asking for opinions between two TVs, an LG and a Toshiba.

Well, I went with the LG, this one right here.
http://www.amazon.com/LG-32LM6200-3...=panasonic+ut50

After having it for awhile now, I have to say it is a great TV, and works in my bedroom perfectly. Thin, lightweight, and the picture looks good. It does have that truemotion/whatever thing, but you can easily turn it off. I've been using it to watch an HD Comcast box, my Xbox 360, Blu-Rays, and Netflix through the TV's built in app. Overall, everything has worked perfectly, including the built in Wi-Fi, it hasn't cut out even once or anything.

Also, I needed a wall mount for the TV, and decided to go with this one here.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WYVBR0/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

It seems like a cheap no name one, but the positive reviews were overwhelming. I'm glad I listened to them, it is a great mount. Rock solid steel, the mount itselft probably weighs at least 5 pounds. The joints come stiff from the factory, but they are very easily loosened or tightened. I mounted it to my wall by just bolting it straight into the stud, and it is rock solid, feels like I could do pull-ups off it.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Kloaked00 posted:

So I'm finalizing which TV I'm going to get myself for Christmas, and I think I'm going to go with a 50" Samsung UN__EH. Using the TV mainly for normal watching, video games and Bluray movies in a moderately bright room Looking between then EH5000 and EH6000 models, they're $100 apart and as far as I can tell the only difference between the two is that the EH5000 has a contrast ration of 3.5 million:1 while the EH6000 has one of 5 million:1. Is there something else that I'm missing between the two, and is that difference something I'd necessarily notice?

If you're going to make significant use of Blu-Ray, I'd recommend the 6000, for it's 120Hz refresh rate.
Motion will be noticeably smoother with film content (and sports) compared to a 60Hz tv/monitor.

And I completely forgot about the whole "contrast marketing" in the faq .
Here's a comparison from televisioninfo:

Link.

Generally speaking, peak brightness above 200 is usually good enough to withstand being washed out by daylight.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Dec 21, 2012

Kloaked00
Jun 21, 2005

I was sitting in my office on that drizzly afternoon listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk and reading my name on the glass of my office door: regnaD kciN

Much appreciated

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos


Holy crap, the Canadian Boxing Day "deals" suck. Still haven't found anything good < $500 in the 40"-50" range.

Here's a question, we are probably going to mount the tv on our brick wall over the fireplace. The seating will all be at a slight angle along the other walls. So should I be then looking for a plasma display since they have better viewing angles, or at the minimum, an IPS LED display?

I think what we need is the following:
Plasma TV
40-49"
Inputs must include VGA (PC)
Able to mount on the wall (bottom stand removable)

The Panasonic TC-P42UT50 looks like the best bet so far. I can find it for $699 on amazon.ca so maybe I can score a cheaper one on a sale. But that one doesn't have a VGA input. Alternatives?

cowofwar fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Dec 21, 2012

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....

Are Sony TV's in general worth the extra price? I have a chance to get the KDL-46EX645 (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL46EX645-46-Inch-1080p-Internet/dp/B008XG1N72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356118109&sr=8-1&keywords=KDL-46EX645) for $629 through my corporate perks website and I was wondering if it was worth it.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







BexGu posted:

Are Sony TV's in general worth the extra price? I have a chance to get the KDL-46EX645 (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL46EX645-46-Inch-1080p-Internet/dp/B008XG1N72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356118109&sr=8-1&keywords=KDL-46EX645) for $629 through my corporate perks website and I was wondering if it was worth it.

At that price, it's cheaper and larger than a 42UT50, and it's SMART.
If you can get the 50" for less than $800, I say go for it.

Such a shame Sony's default prices are so loving high (like, $150-300 higher than anyone else high).

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Dec 21, 2012

ijii
Mar 17, 2007
I'M APPARENTLY GAY AND MY POSTING SUCKS.


Good time for a new thread. I have had a 19" SDTV for over 10 years now and it's time for an upgrade. I actually don't watch TV, but I do plan on buying some TV series on Blu-Ray. Clone Wars, Game of Thrones, maybe Family Guy, and probably others I'm not thinking about right now. I also plan on watching an equal amount of movies (which I have yet to buy) and playing an equal amount of computer games on the new TV. The Blu Ray discs I plan on playing in a Blu Ray PC drive. My Geforce GTX 570 can play 3d movies if necessary.

Since my PC is going to be my gaming console, media console, and internet, there's no reason to get a Smart TV right? Just a modern LED/LCD TV with a couple HDMI and USB ports and I'm good to go?

ijii fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Dec 22, 2012

particle409
Jan 15, 2008

Thou bootless clapper-clawed varlot!


I also need a recommendation for a smaller tv. I had a 22" Vizio with a built-in dvd player I got a few years ago during some Target Christmas sale. I used it at my brother's wedding to entertain the kids, and the venue managed to "lose" it after I left it there overnight. They're giving me $100 towards a new one.

tl:dr I need a flatscreen 22-26 inch tv. It's gonna sit on my night table so I can watch tv in bed. I want to catch one of these sweet Christmas sales if possible.

particle409 fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 22, 2012

diesiel
Aug 11, 2012


I'm going to be moving into an apartment and desperately need to buy a TV (along with an audio system and HTPC). I guess my TV requirements would be pretty similar to the OP's

1080p, with good blacks and color replications. Blu-Ray movie support. 50 inches, A Low input lag, no ghosting issues along with solid viewing angles. Wifi/browsing are not important features for me as i'll be using an HTPC with the TV. Just an all around good TV, looking to spend about $1,500 for one.

I was considering the TX-P50ST50, however alot of reviews suggest that they dont do really well in bright rooms, my new place will have direct sunlight flooding in during the non-winter months, so that's a concern.

Any solid recommendations?

diesiel fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Dec 22, 2012

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Will the TV actually be facing your windows?
Panasonic's and Samsung's upper-end plasmas (Sam's 6-Series and up, Pan's ST50 and up) have louvered filters, which help with bright light and reflections.

Also, speaking of Panasonic plasmas:
Panasonic May Pull Plug On Plasma TV R&D Come March 2013

Bad news for OLED too. 4K Ultra HD appears to be the future:
Deterred By Low OLED Yields, LG & Samsung Switch Focus To 4K TV

It would appear that my long term strategy of buying in 2012, and waiting five years for the new tech to mature (and by extension, drop in price) was a good idea after all.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Dec 22, 2012

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

Mister Macys posted:

Panasonic's and Samsung's upper-end plasmas (Sam's 6-Series and up, Pan's ST50 and up) have louvered filters, which help with bright light and reflections.
Also, everyone likes to focus on how plasmas have trouble with bright light due to needing glass, and forget the fact that 90% of LED televisions on the market (especially in the 50+ size range) have a glossy finish on them, so the difference in reflectiveness between them and the plasmas with filtered coating is pretty minimal. I ended up buying a LG 55LM7600 despite originally being set on a plasma because of similar concerns about my room having a lot of natural light. I still love my television, especially the great passive 3D. But having seen it in my house in the middle of the day and the Panasonic plasmas in the homes of others in similar conditions, I now realize it was a completely moot concern. You`re going to have to pull your blinds down either way if reflectiveness bothers you that much.

As Mister Macys states, if you go for the ST50 or above and the sunlight isn`t going to be coming in directly opposite to where your television is, the picture won`t be amazing in the middle of the day, but it won`t be terrible either, and it certainly will excel at all the other requirements you listed.

kuddles fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Dec 22, 2012

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos


Ended up buying an LG 47LM8600 last night since newegg.ca had a deal on them for $999.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Mister Macys posted:


Also, speaking of Panasonic plasmas:
Panasonic May Pull Plug On Plasma TV R&D Come March 2013

Bad news for OLED too. 4K Ultra HD appears to be the future:
Deterred By Low OLED Yields, LG & Samsung Switch Focus To 4K TV


Race to the bottom. It was bound to happen, but it's still drat disappointing. The thing that always suffers with this race is the moderately priced higher quality products.

The market undergoes extreme stratification and you are left with the low end that's differentiated by varying level of features with de-emphasis on quality and the expensive high end that only enthusiasts will (and can afford to) buy.

Everyone who cares about quality about the core function of the product over all else, gets the shaft.

The focus from OLED to 4k is also an example of this. OLED had the ability to REALLY improve the quality of the picture you see. 4k is a resolution that no one at home needs unless they are projecting on to a 100" screen and want to diminish the screen door effect.

The vast majority of people watching their 40" LCDs at 15 feet in their living room would benefit so much more from OLED, they are already not seeing everything their current resolution has to offer.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 22, 2012

samurai slowdown
Jun 11, 2006

POWER UP

bull3964 posted:

Race to the bottom. It was bound to happen, but it's still drat disappointing. The thing that always suffers with this race is the moderately priced higher quality products.

The market undergoes extreme stratification and you are left with the low end that's differentiated by varying level of features with de-emphasis on quality and the expensive high end that only enthusiasts will (and can afford to) buy.

Everyone who cares about quality about the core function of the product over all else, gets the shaft.

The focus from OLED to 4k is also an example of this. OLED had the ability to REALLY improve the quality of the picture you see. 4k is a resolution that no one at home needs unless they are projecting on to a 100" screen and want to diminish the screen door effect.

The vast majority of people watching their 40" LCDs at 15 feet in their living room would benefit so much more from OLED, they are already not seeing everything their current resolution has to offer.

I'm shocked they didn't bail sooner. Even if they could have worked out the manufacturing issues, the risk of burn in combined with the high price tag would have scared most consumers away. It would have been a more expensive version of the LCoS fiasco if they had pushed forward.

Maybe Sony can pull a miracle out of their rear end with "Crystal LED" but I'm not holding my breath.

Bengy
Jan 3, 2011


My dad has taked me with helping him choose a good 3D TV. His price range is a not very strict $2000. The size limit is 60" and he wants active 3D. I don't know much except for the basic research I did so any guidance is much appreciated!

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Panasonic TC-P60GT50

~$1900. Leaves enough for extra 3D glasses!
And it's plasma!

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 23, 2012

ntan1
Apr 29, 2009

sempai noticed me



Get the ST50 instead, it's cheaper. Otherwise, go up to the 55 inch VT50 if you want the best plasma out in the market right now. Only get the GT50 if you for some reason really care about THX certification.

tboneDX
Jan 27, 2009


I just bought a UN40ES6100 yesterday for $750, and I'm wondering if anyone has experience with these. I'm mostly using it for TV/Movies via an HTPC, and games (I have a video box that does composite->component, and I throw the TV into 4:3 mode).

Couple quick questions:

I've found that I have to use "Movie" mode to keep the thing from changing backlight brightness on me dynamically, and that prevents me from using the "game mode", which supposedly reduces input lag.

Is it possible to get 1:1 pixel mapping on 1080p TVs of this size? For my HTPC I put it into "screen fit" mode, and it doesn't seem to overscan, but is this the way to do it?

I notice at higher backlight levels when there's an all-black screen, I get a somewhat blotchy (non-uniform) backlight pattern, is this worth returning the TV over, or is it par for the course with edge-lit models?

Thanks in advance.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Televisioninfo said the screen uniformity with edge lighting is somewhat problematic.
The ES6100 specifically says this:

televisioninfo posted:

The edgelit ES6100 has the usual problems showcased by edgelit, LCD televisions. A fully white screen proved to be smooth and uniform from center to corners, and the usual bezel shadow was eliminated by the UN40ES6100’s very thin bezel. We saw considerable flashlighting during the all black screen, but awarded points for the ES6100’s auto-dimming feature, which does an alright job hiding this problem from the viewer. Overall, the uniformity is imperfect due to the problems with edgelighting, but at least 100% dark screens are salvaged by the set’s auto-dimming, which is implemented fairly well.

Depending on how similar your remote and user interface are to mine...
Menu -> Picture -> Advanced Options -> Dynamic Contrast -> Off

For your HTPC, if it's Windows, make sure the monitor res it's outputting to is set to 1920x1080.
And check how your HTPC front-end (XBMC, Plex, etc.) is set for outputting your media.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 24, 2012

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.


I'm at my cousin's house, and his TV has some weird feature where the movie we're watching is at way too high a frame rate and looks weird and not at all what a movie is supposed to look like.

I'm in the market for a new TV, so how do I make sure I can avoid that look at all costs?

tboneDX
Jan 27, 2009


Mister Macys posted:

Televisioninfo said the screen uniformity with edge lighting is somewhat problematic.
The ES6100 specifically says this:


Depending on how similar your remote and user interface are to mine...
Menu -> Picture -> Advanced Options -> Dynamic Contrast -> Off

For your HTPC, if it's Windows, make sure the monitor res it's outputting to is set to 1920x1080.
And check how your HTPC front-end (XBMC, Plex, etc.) is set for outputting your media.

Thanks for the information. My "HTPC" is a raspberry pi, and I finally managed to get it to do 1920x1080@60Hz with more than 16-bit color, and https://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test looks quite a bit better (especially on the black level tests).

I definitely turned the dynamic contrast off, but I have found that the LED-dimming feature causes more issues than it's worth when fading to black when playing games. I'll give it a shot for watching movies and the like, since it should work a bit more natually.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Swagger Dagger posted:

I'm at my cousin's house, and his TV has some weird feature where the movie we're watching is at way too high a frame rate and looks weird and not at all what a movie is supposed to look like.

I'm in the market for a new TV, so how do I make sure I can avoid that look at all costs?

That would mean this feature is turned on:

Soap Opera Effect/TruMotion/ClearMotion/Motion Interpolation - A picture-processing effect that makes movement look super-smooth by adding frames of animation between the original ones.
Also, are you in Europe/UK? In some reviews on HDTVtest, there are apparently problems with some televisions not being able to turn off the feature, either partially, or at all. This may, or may not also be true for very early NA models with this feature. (~'06/07)
Otherwise it should be possible to deactivate it.

Brand names and their marketing name for the "feature":

Wikipedia posted:

Hitachi – Reel120[2]
Insignia – DCM Plus, for Digital Clear Motion 120 Hz
Kogan Technologies – MotionMax 100 Hz,[3] 200 Hz
LG – TruMotion 120 Hz, 240 Hz, 480 Hz
AOC – Motion Boost 120 Hz
Mitsubishi – Smooth 120 Hz
Panasonic – Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC)
Philips – HD Digital Natural Motion[4]
Samsung – Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz,[5] 240 Hz, Clear Motion Rate 100 Hz, 200 Hz, 400 Hz, 500 Hz, 600 Hz, 800 Hz (PAL video system), Clear Motion Rate 120 Hz, 240 Hz, 480 Hz, 600 Hz, 720 Hz, 960 Hz (NTSC video system)
Sharp – Fine Motion Enhanced,[6] AquoMotion 240 Hz,[7] AquoMotion Pro
Sony – MotionFlow 100 Hz, 100 Hz PRO (XBR series, Australia), 120 Hz, 200 Hz, 240 Hz, 400 Hz, 480 Hz, 800 Hz, 960 Hz.[8][9]
Toshiba – ClearScan 120 Hz, 240 Hz
Vizio – SmoothMotion [10]
Sceptre – MEMC (Motion Estimation/Motion Compensation)

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Dec 24, 2012

toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


So if 3d is no big deal, is there any reason to go to the st50 over the u50?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




toplitzin posted:

So if 3d is no big deal, is there any reason to go to the st50 over the u50?

Yes. The ST has a better panel with lower black levels and has an anti-glare filter.

Blinky2099
May 27, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


I'm looking for a TV for Movies/TV viewing in my room. The TV will be resting on a dresser that's pretty high up, so the TV needs to be able to tilt down a bit. I know some stands suck with this, so it's a pretty big deal to me.

Looking for anything around ~40 inches, definitely no more than 50, and anywhere in the 30s is fine. "Best bang for your buck" type deal would be nice. No strict budget, but I'd rather save a couple hundred dollars than get slightly better image quality. Somewhere around the $300-$600 range would be nice.

Can anyone suggest something like this for me?

Edit:

Chemmy posted:

Monoprice has wall mounts for that size TV that do tilts for $15 if that helps your search:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082801&p_id=5915&seq=1&format=2

I'd like to be able to move it between my dorm and room with ease, I'd rather avoid wall mounts if possible

Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 24, 2012

Chemmy
Feb 4, 2001



Monoprice has wall mounts for that size TV that do tilts for $15 if that helps your search:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082801&p_id=5915&seq=1&format=2

Hed
Mar 31, 2004



Fun Shoe

Does anyone have experience with RVU capable televisions? I heard the first generation of televisions was pretty slow to use the UI while watching over the network but recent faster processors may be better. Trying to get a critical mass of TVs capable so that I can put all the tuner boxes one location and TVs can just hook up via Ethernet.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Hed posted:

Does anyone have experience with RVU capable televisions? I heard the first generation of televisions was pretty slow to use the UI while watching over the network but recent faster processors may be better. Trying to get a critical mass of TVs capable so that I can put all the tuner boxes one location and TVs can just hook up via Ethernet.

As far as i know the 2011 or 10 samsung 6000 and up had RVU but i dont know if the new ones even have it anymore

upsciLLion
Feb 9, 2006

Bees?



This rumor has been posted and addressed several times at highdefjunkies. They don't seem to think much of it.

http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=13706&page=74&p=360796&viewfull=1#post360796

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toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


bull3964 posted:

Yes. The ST has a better panel with lower black levels and has an anti-glare filter.

Is that worth $400? That's the difference between the two as 50" models on amazon.

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