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Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







First, lemme get this outta the way:
Where do I go for cheap A/V cables?
- MONOPRICE.COM
What TVs have the lowest input lag for VIDEO GAMES?
- Display Lag has a decent list of displays.
- Alternate list: TV Input Lag Test Database

Welcome to the High Definition Television Thread! Here for all your television questions, opinions, and suggestions!
Into nostalgia? Have Archives? Here's the last thread. Please note: I am neither a professional, nor a salesman. The OP is based on a combination of Wikipedia, reviews, and poo poo People Said Somewhere. An effort was made to avoid being specific to the North American market, but I'm not perfect. That said, prices will be listed in USD unless otherwise specified. If you find anything to contradict what I type here, message me so I can fix it ASAP. Also feel free to PM me if you need help. If I don't know, I can usually find out who does.

Introduction:
Televisions have come a long way since their invention (utilizing a cathode ray tube) almost 90 years ago. Hell, they've come a long way in the last five years alone. The CRT TV is on life support, and Rear Projection has died. Plasma is no longer the market leader it was half a decade ago; as prices of LCD televisions and their more evolved version; the LED back-lit television, have fallen in price year-over-year. All while the display technology of said televisions has improved remarkably well. Media content is increasingly being presented to us in "High Definition" quality, with multiple media formats, both physical and digital, to choose from.

Also disappearing is the straightforward TV user interface of volume and channel controls. These "Smart" televisions have more advanced operating systems rivalling that of amateur Android and Linux distros . Included are the options to update the UI, play video/sports on-demand subscription services, simple/casual video games, social media integration, internet connectivity, and more to come. Three-dimensional content has had slow progress in pushing sales. Coming out right in the middle of the Great Recession, and first implemented on high priced flagship/early-adopter models; continuing technical problems and the simple lack of content have not helped this feature achieve mainstream acceptance. The technology is trickling down though, so expect to see 3DTV as a bullet point in the sub-$600 market in the next year.

As the world economy has "recovered", a new challenger has appeared to head the feature list of top tier televisions for 2013: ("4K") Ultra High Definition. Presenting four times the pixel count of current "True HD™" televisions, they are ready for the next phase of high-resolution media content. Never mind that no such content currently exists in the mainstream (cable/satellite/on-demand/Blu-Ray)... yet. Upscaling is available on various Blu-Ray players and A/V Receivers. As of E3 2013, Sony and Microsoft have confirmed that their upcoming consoles will be capable of supporting UHD video- though not games. There is also a new display technology entering the market this summer: Organic Light-Emitting Diode (OLED) screens. Offering unparalleled contrast levels and energy efficiency; improvement of this technology stands to offer image quality improvements comparable to the increase in pixel density offered by Ultra HD. And indeed, we can expect to see SMART 3D OLED 4K UHDTVs (with Beats by Dre ) entering the market sometime next year.

Early adopters better have a deep wallet.



The Technology: Flat Panel Displays

While many display technologies have been sold over the decades, I'll be sticking to the four main display types currently sold in mainstream stores.

"LCD"

Liquid Crystal Display televisions are the oldest of the display technologies, utilizing less efficient CCFL lighting and (sometimes) less advanced display panels than those in LED TV sets. Every company has televisions of this type, comprising the entry-level, to mid/upper-tier pricing. Contrast levels, viewing angles, colour accuracy, hardware, and software features will be competitive to their LED counterparts- albeit with lower energy efficiency, increased TV and bezel thickness, worse aesthetics, and a lack of marketing emphasis, given their lower profit margins. Smart, 3D, high refresh rates, high contrast levels, colour accuracy; many, if not all of these will be available.

Typically under USD $1000, they make an efficient purchase, providing adequate-to-excellent performance in all areas- depending on the brand. Size-to-price ratios approach/equal that of entry-level plasma displays. Best guess is these will be phased out in favour of LED & OLED, eventually. If you want a cheap, no-frills TV for kids/college/patio/porch- that you won't mind when it eventually gets broken/stolen/scratched, this is also what you want. Avoid unknown brands. There's some real crap out there.
Car company: General Motors; from the Aztek , to the Corvette.

"LED"

Light Emitting Diode LCD TVs are the cool kids version of LCD, using more efficient LED back-lighting, and (in the top tiers) more advanced LCD panels and design. Every company sells televisions of this type; usually as a "premium" version of LCD models using the same panel- just for $100-200 more, with Smart features added on. All major electronics companies will have a "flagship" LED television; using the best in electronics and software design and architecture. Some, like 2012's Samsung E8000 series are real lookers. Pushing one inch of depth or less overall, with a clear bezel of less than half an inch, 20% or more energy efficiency over CCFL backlit LCD. Featuring plasma-like black levels, beautiful colours, and available in ginormous sizes and prices to match.

All television features will be available on one LED TV or another. Smart, 3D, high refresh rates, amazing contrast ratios and colour accuracy, viewing angles, pure size, motion/voice activation... The newly introduced (4K) Ultra HD resolution is also available- if you have the money. These televisions represent the current state of the art. LEDs currently have, on average, the worst size-to-price ratios of the three display types for sale at this time. Holiday sales are a great time to look out for these, and of course, if money isn't an issue, they're on par with plasma in many areas.
Car company: Volkswagen AG; from the Golf, to the Bugatti Veyron.

"OLED"

Organic Light-Emitting Diode televisions are now being rolled out into Best Buys in major cities. High failure rates and low yields of imperfection-free panels have stunted mass production until now. They have eclipsed all television technology types- in almost every area. Contrast levels, energy efficiency, colour accuracy, thinness, motion resolution. OLED is the holy grail technology of television. LG and Samsung's offerings will both have curved (concave) screens, with Samsung's 55" sporting a hefty USD $8,999 price tag.



Car type: The White Star, the X-Wing Fighter, and Marty's time-travelling Delorean... in one.

"Plasma/PDP"

Plasma Display Panel televisions are the second oldest technology of the commercially available flat panel displays. They differ from LCD/LED in not using LCD panel tech as a base. Not as many companies make plasma TVs, either anymore, or ever. The consensus best will be made by LG, Panasonic, and Samsung, ("The Big 3") with most people crediting Panasonic as having the best, and Samsung equal or second. LG is nearly as good, but is lagging behind in overall contrast due to slightly brighter black levels. Plasma televisions usually provide the best size-to-price ratio, and 50" True HD screens under $800 are not unheard of. The Big 3 offer most of the bells and whistles currently available to LED televisions; Smart, 3D, motion/voice control, deep blacks, the widest viewing angles, great colour accuracy, motion resolution with less blur than LED, no aliasing inherent to LCD panels, excellent refresh rates... All three companies offer a flagship-quality display with all the latest tech and software they can throw in them. They are the consensus best pick for Blu-Ray movies and usually sports too.

Plasma has notable technical downsides though. Image burn is mostly gone, and image retention is less of an issue than in years past, but not eliminated. Energy consumption is close to double that of the equivalent LED TV. The screens generate significant warmth- enough to be a problem in small, inadequately cooled rooms. Their doubling as space heaters is only a slight exaggeration. They don't come in a size between 42 and 50 inches. The requisite glass screens make them heavier than LCD models. Maximum brightness, while less of a problem now, may not be suitable for sunlit rooms, or windows facing the display. Finally, low budget plasma displays come in phoney "720p" resolutions of 1024x768. Yeah. Still. In the Year of Our Lord 2013. Entry-level displays aside, if efficient design isn't an issue, you'll be hard-pressed to find better or even equal value, for the same price. I bought one myself. It's performance first. Don't worry about the "details"...
Car type: Race cars; from the go-kart, to Formula 1.



Glossary of Terms

720p
- High Definition. 1280x720. Technically. I say that, because many displays currently marketed as 720p actually have a native resolution of 1366x768 (WXGA), with plasma displays still sporting a lowly 1024x768. Most HD broadcast/cable/satellite signals are 720p. Better than DVD, lower than Blu-Ray, and is the res of most video games of the outgoing console generation (Xbox 360, PS3, Wii-U). Available at most television sizes if you include plasma. Becoming more rare though.
1080p
- True High Definition. 1920x1080. This is replacing 720p as infrastructure and technology improve. This is the resolution of some video games of the outgoing console generation, Some Youtube, various video/sports on-demand services, and Blu-Ray Disc movies. Will definitely be the standard going forward, until Ultra HD picks up steam. Available at all sizes of television.
4K
- Ultra High Definition. 3840x2160. There are televisions out now that can display in it, but nothing is currently broadcast or sold in this resolution at this time, outside of promotional videos. Various Blu-Ray and A/V receivers are capable of upscaling video signals to this resolution. Sony appends "4K" to the Ultra HD label. Sony and Microsoft's upcoming consoles (PS4, Xbox One, respectively) have both been confirmed as capable of supporting UHD video content. I believe the current minimum television size will be a 39" Seiki, the largest being 84" with Sony and LG.
Input Lag
- Input lag is the delay between the television receiving a signal and it being displayed on the screen, due to various picture-enhancing processes and algorithms. Depending on how many are active, these can delay what's seen on-screen from a controller/instrument/etc. by about 1-5 frames, or 17-90ms. 1-2 frames is generally not noticeable. 3-5 might be noticeable, especially with timing/reaction sensitive games, or music editing. Traditionally, Plasmas have been the best about reducing this, followed by LCD and LED. Some brands are better than others, as well. A low input lag can be had on any size of television, here's a decent list: Display Lag.
SMART
- Basically an Operating System for televisions. Will typically allow networking with a computer, storage devices, and various web/video/game applications including Netflix, MLB.TV, Angry Birds, Facebook, and more. Available in sizes from 32" and up. Possibly under that if you're willing to look around.
Soap Opera Effect/TruMotion/ClearMotion/Motion Interpolation
- A picture-processing effect that makes movement look super-smooth by adding frames of animation between the original ones. Very jarring on live action, aside from sports. You might get used to it with CG/cartoon animation though. The recent film adaptation of The Hobbit was filmed in 48p. and may have this look (I didn't see it). Available on most LCD and LED displays as an optional feature.
3D
- These sets can do 3D in one of two ways:
- Passive: using non-battery operated glasses of the type found in movie theaters.
- Active: uses battery operated glasses which alternate blocking out one eye's vision, so the TV doesn't have to. Said to have less cross-talk than passive, but the glasses are $20-50, and need batteries.
Very rare to find on televisions 40" and under, Playstation 3D Display excepted.
HDMI
- This is the new way of connecting media devices to your television. It includes both audio and video signals, and the newest ones include ethernet support and 4K UHD resolution, as well. They are made to enforce DRM and provide HD signals and surround audio. It's completely digital, so don't bother with expensive cables. The signal is strictly ones and zeros. It has gone through a few revisions, as well, with 1.4 being the newest. Available on all televisions for the last seven years.
Aspect Ratio
- The ratio of an image's width, to its height. Widescreen TVs and modern TV content is in 16:9. Older shows will be 4:3. Movies will be any number of screen ratios, but generally wider than 4:3. With the exception of very early LCDs and some goofy PC-resolution plasmas from years past, all TVs have a 16:9 ratio widescreen display.
Motion Blur
- A set of technical and processing limitations where images on screen will be blurred or smudged, including: low pixel response time (largely solved), resampling and de-interlacing of television content, compression/upscaling "artifacts" in video streams, and blur from the eye tracking fast moving objects on sample-and-hold LCD, plasma, or microdisplays. Motion blur exists to one extent or another in all displays, with various technical (strobing back lights) and software (interpolation) solutions to reduce or eliminate perceived blurring.



Frequently Asked Questions

What does "__ms refresh rate!" mean?
- Refresh rate, or more accurately pixel response time, is how long it takes a pixel to go from one value to another, and back again, measured in milliseconds. A faster refresh rate reduces motion blur. This has nothing to do with why you keep loving up chords in Guitar Band 5 Beatles DJ Edition 2. See "Input Lag" above. There's some different ways of measuring it (black-white-black, grey-to-grey), to massage the number that Marketing puts on the box, and for the last 4-5 years, it's effect on motion blur has been a non-factor.

What does "1,000,000:1 contrast ratio!" really mean?
- Roughly speaking, it's the ratio of how bright the TV can go, divided by it's darkest setting while not actually turning off. It's marketing bullshit. If you want an accurate number, browse review sites that measure peak brightness and black levels in candelas per metre squared (cd/m2). I recommend searching out reviews for your intended purchase at https://www.televisioninfo.com and https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk.
Example (plasma displays):


What is a good peak brightness for sunlit rooms/direct sunlight?
With the exception of some plasma televisions released this year (example), plasma televisions will have problems with sunlight washing out the image, as their peak brightness is lower than that of comparable LCD/LED displays. In bright, sunlit rooms, you'll want a peak brightness of 150 cd/m2, preferably higher. For direct sunlight you'll want a brightness in excess of 200 cd/m2.

What TV sizes have __ features that I want?
- I updated the Glossary of Terms with that info, just for you!

Where do I buy cheap A/V cables?
- It's at the top of the page, rear end in a top hat! https://www.monoprice.com. Don't buy Monster. With digital cables, transporting a digital signal (of unchanging binary data, not analog electrical oscillations, or whatever), any perceived improvement in image quality will be strictly a placebo effect. If you want to show off, cover them in mesh fabric and just lie about what you spent on them. More information on cabling can be found here.

What TV is the best?
- The best TV is one that most fits your needs, limited by how much you're willing to spend. If money is no object, pick your favourite brand, and buy the biggest, highest numbered model they have, pay a professional to calibrate it, and revel in the irony of spending thousands of dollars to watch anti-establishment fiction. Again. If you're a prole, like myself... 1.) Set a maximum no-matter-what price you're willing to pay. 2.) Find the biggest TVs in that price bracket with brands you're willing to purchase. 3.) Find the features you're willing to give up screen size for. 4.) Narrow it down to a half-dozen choices. 5.) Find the best price for them now, or wait until a huge sale (Black Friday, Boxing Day, etc.). That said, Price no object? An OLED TV, followed by: The Panasonic Viera TC-P__ZT60.

What brand is the best?
- Samsung, LG, Sony, Sharp, and Panasonic all have the highest rated televisions (in reviews/blogs), are the most popular on retail/online stores, and have the most advertising... the best brands are usually popular for a reason: they make excellent products. However, it's not as if everyone else's products all suck. They won't necessarily be bad, they just won't be the best, as they're made for the price-oriented consumer. Quality can vary from model to model- never mind brand versus brand. Reviews are your friend here.

What brands should I avoid?
- Brands with names that never existed before the year 2000 (Asian "brands of the day") should be given very careful consideration. Their lack of a track record or reputation via word of mouth, and doubt as to whether any will still exist even a year later is a red flag. Vizio is excepted, (established - 2002) as they're an American company that knows how to design and source a decent product, and has quickly made a name for itself as a serious contender in value for money. Speaking personally, I will never touch a Philips product. And for what it's worth:

scary ghost dog posted:

Never buy Sylvania televisions.

No. Seriously. Don't loving buy them.

What TV gives me the most bang for my buck?
- By type? Plasmas, LCDs, LEDs; in that order. By place? Amazon, Newegg, Fry's (I'm in Canada, someone C/D this please), Costco (selection limited) some independent dealers (Gibby's in Canada, where I bought mine). When? Holiday sales, specifically: Black Friday, Boxing Day/Week, and possibly March Madness. By brand? A value/store brand that fits your needs and wants best. Ones I know: Vizio, RCA, Dynex/Insignia, Toshiba, Seiki, Philips, Emerson.

What TV is the best for __?
Sports - OLED/Any display with a refresh rate of 120Hz or higher, good brightness, and accurate colours.
Movies - OLED/Any display with a refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 (120, 240, 600), with accurate colours, and blacks lower than 0.1cd/m2.
Video games - ANY DISPLAY WITH AN INPUT LAG OF 2 FRAMES (~35ms) OR LESS. Usually (but not always) plasma. Do plenty of research. This website may help: Display Lag.
3-D - LG's 2012 passive 3D method, from what I've read. Near zero cross-talk, and no eye-strain.
Contrast - OLED/All display types are capable of sub-0.1cd/m2 black levels (except LG for the most part). This year, some plasmas can now reach 200cd/m2 peak brightness for bright, sunlit rooms. LCD/LED displays can hit peak brightness in excess of 300cd/m2, depending on the model.
Colour accuracy/reproduction - OLED/All display types are capable of matching the Rec. 709 standard. Check reviews for verification of models you are interested in.
Motion Blur - OLED/All display types of mid-to-upper tiers are excellent in this area. Entry level TVs tend to have consistent problems here.
Image Retention - LCD/LED because technically, they have none. For 2012 plasmas, Samsung had a slight edge over Panasonic. I don't know about LG.

How do I calibrate my TV's picture settings?
- AVS Forums' free calibration disc, Avia Guide to Home Theater, or THX-Certified DVD/Blu-Ray movies, which will contain an optimization "guide". Or pay ~$300 to a professional.

I use some 30" Apple Display/ASUS/Dell/HP computer monitor, and...
Oh, you want this thread then: Monitor/Display Megathread.

Where else can I go to get answers to my questions?
Try the The Video Quick Questions Megathread.

Should I get the extended/in-store warranty?
- That's up to you. As the joke goes, if you don't get it, your TV will die less than a month after the default one expires. If you spend the cash, your TV won't get so much as a scratch on it. I didn't, because I bought mine online and there wasn't the option, which I would've skipped anyways. I'm a risk-taker...

What are these black borders above and below the movie I'm watching?
- That's letterboxing, and even though TVs are 16:9 widescreen, there are movies with ratios higher than 2:1 (Ben Hur comes to mind). With 4:3 content, the borders will appear on the sides if the TV is displaying the picture correctly.

Why do the people's proportions look "off" (fat/squished)?
- Check the aspect ratio of both your television and media player. One of them is probably set to a ratio that the media is not formatted in (either 16:9 or 4:3).

What am I going to put my TV on?
- Try here: http://www.standsandmounts.com/ And there's always Ikea, Wal-Mart, Goodwill, and the like. For used, there's Craigslist, Kijiji, auctions, and the Classified section in your local newspaper.

What are some trustworthy review sites?
- I can't guarantee their veracity, but I use Cnet, HDTVtest , and TelevisionInfo in combination.

How do I view my torrented files?
- Multiple options. If you want to use your 360 as the interface, use TVersity and stream it. Or the 360's USB slot, and a USB flash memory key. If your TV has USB ports, try those. Samsung Smart TVs have a Plex app for download. There's also the HTPC Thread, Apple TV, WDTV Live, XBMC, Boxee Box, and finally, Cutting Cable.

Why do my TV's speakers sound like poo poo?
- Because they are poo poo. Between 2-10 Watts, downward firing, and the cheapest that can be mass-produced in their thousands. It wouldn't surprise me if companies have been buying the same speakers since 2003. Seriously, even a soundbar is an improvement. Get an amp and a pair of speakers from a thrift shop. Guarantee you they'll be better.

Which video game console should I buy?
- You want the Games sub-forum.

Too Long; Didn't Read?
- OLED is the best. Just save up until they're affordable.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Oct 25, 2013

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Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







News

Most of this I'll be posting from https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk (with a one-line "Editor's Note" because I'm <- - that guy), but if any of you find an article you want to add, let me know in the thread and I'll stick it here.

How good are OLED TVs?
In a word; perfect. OLED has won the TV picture quality war on the first try.


quote:

TV Input Lag Test Database
By Vincent Teoh 21 June 2013
- They explain why plasma displays get worse ratings with the "new and improved" Leo Bodnar Metric.


Goon purchases of 2012:

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Oct 25, 2013

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Fun Shoe

Thanks for a new thread. Can you change the name though? Maybe put the quip after the title. It's not as easy to grab this at a glance compared to HDTV Megathread.

My 2 cents on plasma models, we own both a mid range LG and Panasonic. The LG was a great price and has some neat smart features (plays back MKV files, etc) but in actual PQ it doesn't hold a candle to the Panasonic. On the other hand the Panasonic has needed service twice in two years which is a bummer. At least they are good about warranty service though, both times it was in-home service and fixed in under a week.

Red Crown
Oct 20, 2008

Pretend my finger's a knife.

I'll put in the first request for a recommendation: I'm looking to spend about $500 or less on a 37" screen that will be primarily used for TV and movies. I have no need for 3D or any features that are much fancier than say, 1080p HD and a couple of HDMI ports. The more reliable, the better.

mcsuede
Dec 30, 2003

Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.
-Greta Garbo

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm looking for a mount like http://www.dynamicmounting.com/ that a) is available b) is cheaper, if possible.

I know the "tv above a fireplace" is a common complaint in IYG but we don't have another mounting position that makes sense and are dreading looking up. This mount style seems perfect.

BabyJesus
Nov 13, 2002


I've never seen the down and out mounts before, but monoprice sells nice mounts at reasonable prices. I've used them twice in the past 3 years to hang tvs and they are easy to install and sturdy.

Nairbo
Jan 2, 2005


FYI your link to CNET in the OP is broken. Hardly a big deal but the https://www. seems to confuse, at least, Chrome.

Great OP though.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Fixed it. Thanks.

Something must be wrong with my 360.
If I use my VGA cable, I can watch DVDs, Netflix and Zune (Yes I rented one. Canada sucks for apps) video fine on my monitor. But if I use any of my 3 HDMI cables (1.3, 2x 1.4), all I get are HDCP errors from both the monitor and my TV. Plays games fine, but anything else is hosed using HDMI. Switched cables around, and all that. poo poo, I even formatted the drive and downloaded my profile again.
I'd use the VGA cable on my TV, but alas, it's too new.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Dec 20, 2012

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 21 days!


Never buy Sylvania televisions.

Kloaked00
Jun 21, 2005

I was sitting in my office on that drizzly afternoon listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk and reading my name on the glass of my office door: regnaD kciN

So I'm finalizing which TV I'm going to get myself for Christmas, and I think I'm going to go with a 50" Samsung UN__EH. Using the TV mainly for normal watching, video games and Bluray movies in a moderately bright room Looking between then EH5000 and EH6000 models, they're $100 apart and as far as I can tell the only difference between the two is that the EH5000 has a contrast ration of 3.5 million:1 while the EH6000 has one of 5 million:1. Is there something else that I'm missing between the two, and is that difference something I'd necessarily notice?

themachine
Jun 6, 2003

Welcome to the machine

I posted towards the end of the last thread asking for opinions between two TVs, an LG and a Toshiba.

Well, I went with the LG, this one right here.
http://www.amazon.com/LG-32LM6200-3...=panasonic+ut50

After having it for awhile now, I have to say it is a great TV, and works in my bedroom perfectly. Thin, lightweight, and the picture looks good. It does have that truemotion/whatever thing, but you can easily turn it off. I've been using it to watch an HD Comcast box, my Xbox 360, Blu-Rays, and Netflix through the TV's built in app. Overall, everything has worked perfectly, including the built in Wi-Fi, it hasn't cut out even once or anything.

Also, I needed a wall mount for the TV, and decided to go with this one here.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ils_o00_s00_i00

It seems like a cheap no name one, but the positive reviews were overwhelming. I'm glad I listened to them, it is a great mount. Rock solid steel, the mount itselft probably weighs at least 5 pounds. The joints come stiff from the factory, but they are very easily loosened or tightened. I mounted it to my wall by just bolting it straight into the stud, and it is rock solid, feels like I could do pull-ups off it.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Kloaked00 posted:

So I'm finalizing which TV I'm going to get myself for Christmas, and I think I'm going to go with a 50" Samsung UN__EH. Using the TV mainly for normal watching, video games and Bluray movies in a moderately bright room Looking between then EH5000 and EH6000 models, they're $100 apart and as far as I can tell the only difference between the two is that the EH5000 has a contrast ration of 3.5 million:1 while the EH6000 has one of 5 million:1. Is there something else that I'm missing between the two, and is that difference something I'd necessarily notice?

If you're going to make significant use of Blu-Ray, I'd recommend the 6000, for it's 120Hz refresh rate.
Motion will be noticeably smoother with film content (and sports) compared to a 60Hz tv/monitor.

And I completely forgot about the whole "contrast marketing" in the faq .
Here's a comparison from televisioninfo:

Link.

Generally speaking, peak brightness above 200 is usually good enough to withstand being washed out by daylight.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Dec 21, 2012

Kloaked00
Jun 21, 2005

I was sitting in my office on that drizzly afternoon listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk and reading my name on the glass of my office door: regnaD kciN

Much appreciated

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002



Holy crap, the Canadian Boxing Day "deals" suck. Still haven't found anything good < $500 in the 40"-50" range.

Here's a question, we are probably going to mount the tv on our brick wall over the fireplace. The seating will all be at a slight angle along the other walls. So should I be then looking for a plasma display since they have better viewing angles, or at the minimum, an IPS LED display?

I think what we need is the following:
Plasma TV
40-49"
Inputs must include VGA (PC)
Able to mount on the wall (bottom stand removable)

The Panasonic TC-P42UT50 looks like the best bet so far. I can find it for $699 on amazon.ca so maybe I can score a cheaper one on a sale. But that one doesn't have a VGA input. Alternatives?

cowofwar fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Dec 21, 2012

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....

Are Sony TV's in general worth the extra price? I have a chance to get the KDL-46EX645 (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL46EX6...rds=KDL-46EX645) for $629 through my corporate perks website and I was wondering if it was worth it.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







BexGu posted:

Are Sony TV's in general worth the extra price? I have a chance to get the KDL-46EX645 (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL46EX6...rds=KDL-46EX645) for $629 through my corporate perks website and I was wondering if it was worth it.

At that price, it's cheaper and larger than a 42UT50, and it's SMART.
If you can get the 50" for less than $800, I say go for it.

Such a shame Sony's default prices are so loving high (like, $150-300 higher than anyone else high).

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Dec 21, 2012

ijii
Mar 17, 2007
I'M APPARENTLY GAY AND MY POSTING SUCKS.


Good time for a new thread. I have had a 19" SDTV for over 10 years now and it's time for an upgrade. I actually don't watch TV, but I do plan on buying some TV series on Blu-Ray. Clone Wars, Game of Thrones, maybe Family Guy, and probably others I'm not thinking about right now. I also plan on watching an equal amount of movies (which I have yet to buy) and playing an equal amount of computer games on the new TV. The Blu Ray discs I plan on playing in a Blu Ray PC drive. My Geforce GTX 570 can play 3d movies if necessary.

Since my PC is going to be my gaming console, media console, and internet, there's no reason to get a Smart TV right? Just a modern LED/LCD TV with a couple HDMI and USB ports and I'm good to go?

ijii fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Dec 22, 2012

particle409
Jan 15, 2008

Thou bootless clapper-clawed varlot!


I also need a recommendation for a smaller tv. I had a 22" Vizio with a built-in dvd player I got a few years ago during some Target Christmas sale. I used it at my brother's wedding to entertain the kids, and the venue managed to "lose" it after I left it there overnight. They're giving me $100 towards a new one.

tl:dr I need a flatscreen 22-26 inch tv. It's gonna sit on my night table so I can watch tv in bed. I want to catch one of these sweet Christmas sales if possible.

particle409 fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 22, 2012

diesiel
Aug 11, 2012


I'm going to be moving into an apartment and desperately need to buy a TV (along with an audio system and HTPC). I guess my TV requirements would be pretty similar to the OP's

1080p, with good blacks and color replications. Blu-Ray movie support. 50 inches, A Low input lag, no ghosting issues along with solid viewing angles. Wifi/browsing are not important features for me as i'll be using an HTPC with the TV. Just an all around good TV, looking to spend about $1,500 for one.

I was considering the TX-P50ST50, however alot of reviews suggest that they dont do really well in bright rooms, my new place will have direct sunlight flooding in during the non-winter months, so that's a concern.

Any solid recommendations?

diesiel fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Dec 22, 2012

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Will the TV actually be facing your windows?
Panasonic's and Samsung's upper-end plasmas (Sam's 6-Series and up, Pan's ST50 and up) have louvered filters, which help with bright light and reflections.

Also, speaking of Panasonic plasmas:
Panasonic May Pull Plug On Plasma TV R&D Come March 2013

Bad news for OLED too. 4K Ultra HD appears to be the future:
Deterred By Low OLED Yields, LG & Samsung Switch Focus To 4K TV

It would appear that my long term strategy of buying in 2012, and waiting five years for the new tech to mature (and by extension, drop in price) was a good idea after all.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Dec 22, 2012

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

Mister Macys posted:

Panasonic's and Samsung's upper-end plasmas (Sam's 6-Series and up, Pan's ST50 and up) have louvered filters, which help with bright light and reflections.
Also, everyone likes to focus on how plasmas have trouble with bright light due to needing glass, and forget the fact that 90% of LED televisions on the market (especially in the 50+ size range) have a glossy finish on them, so the difference in reflectiveness between them and the plasmas with filtered coating is pretty minimal. I ended up buying a LG 55LM7600 despite originally being set on a plasma because of similar concerns about my room having a lot of natural light. I still love my television, especially the great passive 3D. But having seen it in my house in the middle of the day and the Panasonic plasmas in the homes of others in similar conditions, I now realize it was a completely moot concern. You`re going to have to pull your blinds down either way if reflectiveness bothers you that much.

As Mister Macys states, if you go for the ST50 or above and the sunlight isn`t going to be coming in directly opposite to where your television is, the picture won`t be amazing in the middle of the day, but it won`t be terrible either, and it certainly will excel at all the other requirements you listed.

kuddles fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Dec 22, 2012

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002



Ended up buying an LG 47LM8600 last night since newegg.ca had a deal on them for $999.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Mister Macys posted:


Also, speaking of Panasonic plasmas:
Panasonic May Pull Plug On Plasma TV R&D Come March 2013

Bad news for OLED too. 4K Ultra HD appears to be the future:
Deterred By Low OLED Yields, LG & Samsung Switch Focus To 4K TV


Race to the bottom. It was bound to happen, but it's still drat disappointing. The thing that always suffers with this race is the moderately priced higher quality products.

The market undergoes extreme stratification and you are left with the low end that's differentiated by varying level of features with de-emphasis on quality and the expensive high end that only enthusiasts will (and can afford to) buy.

Everyone who cares about quality about the core function of the product over all else, gets the shaft.

The focus from OLED to 4k is also an example of this. OLED had the ability to REALLY improve the quality of the picture you see. 4k is a resolution that no one at home needs unless they are projecting on to a 100" screen and want to diminish the screen door effect.

The vast majority of people watching their 40" LCDs at 15 feet in their living room would benefit so much more from OLED, they are already not seeing everything their current resolution has to offer.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 22, 2012

samurai slowdown
Jun 11, 2006

POWER UP

bull3964 posted:

Race to the bottom. It was bound to happen, but it's still drat disappointing. The thing that always suffers with this race is the moderately priced higher quality products.

The market undergoes extreme stratification and you are left with the low end that's differentiated by varying level of features with de-emphasis on quality and the expensive high end that only enthusiasts will (and can afford to) buy.

Everyone who cares about quality about the core function of the product over all else, gets the shaft.

The focus from OLED to 4k is also an example of this. OLED had the ability to REALLY improve the quality of the picture you see. 4k is a resolution that no one at home needs unless they are projecting on to a 100" screen and want to diminish the screen door effect.

The vast majority of people watching their 40" LCDs at 15 feet in their living room would benefit so much more from OLED, they are already not seeing everything their current resolution has to offer.

I'm shocked they didn't bail sooner. Even if they could have worked out the manufacturing issues, the risk of burn in combined with the high price tag would have scared most consumers away. It would have been a more expensive version of the LCoS fiasco if they had pushed forward.

Maybe Sony can pull a miracle out of their rear end with "Crystal LED" but I'm not holding my breath.

Bengy
Jan 3, 2011


My dad has taked me with helping him choose a good 3D TV. His price range is a not very strict $2000. The size limit is 60" and he wants active 3D. I don't know much except for the basic research I did so any guidance is much appreciated!

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Panasonic TC-P60GT50

~$1900. Leaves enough for extra 3D glasses!
And it's plasma!

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 23, 2012

ntan1
Apr 29, 2009

sempai noticed me



Get the ST50 instead, it's cheaper. Otherwise, go up to the 55 inch VT50 if you want the best plasma out in the market right now. Only get the GT50 if you for some reason really care about THX certification.

tboneDX
Jan 27, 2009


I just bought a UN40ES6100 yesterday for $750, and I'm wondering if anyone has experience with these. I'm mostly using it for TV/Movies via an HTPC, and games (I have a video box that does composite->component, and I throw the TV into 4:3 mode).

Couple quick questions:

I've found that I have to use "Movie" mode to keep the thing from changing backlight brightness on me dynamically, and that prevents me from using the "game mode", which supposedly reduces input lag.

Is it possible to get 1:1 pixel mapping on 1080p TVs of this size? For my HTPC I put it into "screen fit" mode, and it doesn't seem to overscan, but is this the way to do it?

I notice at higher backlight levels when there's an all-black screen, I get a somewhat blotchy (non-uniform) backlight pattern, is this worth returning the TV over, or is it par for the course with edge-lit models?

Thanks in advance.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Televisioninfo said the screen uniformity with edge lighting is somewhat problematic.
The ES6100 specifically says this:

televisioninfo posted:

The edgelit ES6100 has the usual problems showcased by edgelit, LCD televisions. A fully white screen proved to be smooth and uniform from center to corners, and the usual bezel shadow was eliminated by the UN40ES6100’s very thin bezel. We saw considerable flashlighting during the all black screen, but awarded points for the ES6100’s auto-dimming feature, which does an alright job hiding this problem from the viewer. Overall, the uniformity is imperfect due to the problems with edgelighting, but at least 100% dark screens are salvaged by the set’s auto-dimming, which is implemented fairly well.

Depending on how similar your remote and user interface are to mine...
Menu -> Picture -> Advanced Options -> Dynamic Contrast -> Off

For your HTPC, if it's Windows, make sure the monitor res it's outputting to is set to 1920x1080.
And check how your HTPC front-end (XBMC, Plex, etc.) is set for outputting your media.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 24, 2012

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.


I'm at my cousin's house, and his TV has some weird feature where the movie we're watching is at way too high a frame rate and looks weird and not at all what a movie is supposed to look like.

I'm in the market for a new TV, so how do I make sure I can avoid that look at all costs?

tboneDX
Jan 27, 2009


Mister Macys posted:

Televisioninfo said the screen uniformity with edge lighting is somewhat problematic.
The ES6100 specifically says this:


Depending on how similar your remote and user interface are to mine...
Menu -> Picture -> Advanced Options -> Dynamic Contrast -> Off

For your HTPC, if it's Windows, make sure the monitor res it's outputting to is set to 1920x1080.
And check how your HTPC front-end (XBMC, Plex, etc.) is set for outputting your media.

Thanks for the information. My "HTPC" is a raspberry pi, and I finally managed to get it to do 1920x1080@60Hz with more than 16-bit color, and https://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test looks quite a bit better (especially on the black level tests).

I definitely turned the dynamic contrast off, but I have found that the LED-dimming feature causes more issues than it's worth when fading to black when playing games. I'll give it a shot for watching movies and the like, since it should work a bit more natually.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Swagger Dagger posted:

I'm at my cousin's house, and his TV has some weird feature where the movie we're watching is at way too high a frame rate and looks weird and not at all what a movie is supposed to look like.

I'm in the market for a new TV, so how do I make sure I can avoid that look at all costs?

That would mean this feature is turned on:

Soap Opera Effect/TruMotion/ClearMotion/Motion Interpolation - A picture-processing effect that makes movement look super-smooth by adding frames of animation between the original ones.
Also, are you in Europe/UK? In some reviews on HDTVtest, there are apparently problems with some televisions not being able to turn off the feature, either partially, or at all. This may, or may not also be true for very early NA models with this feature. (~'06/07)
Otherwise it should be possible to deactivate it.

Brand names and their marketing name for the "feature":

Wikipedia posted:

Hitachi – Reel120[2]
Insignia – DCM Plus, for Digital Clear Motion 120 Hz
Kogan Technologies – MotionMax 100 Hz,[3] 200 Hz
LG – TruMotion 120 Hz, 240 Hz, 480 Hz
AOC – Motion Boost 120 Hz
Mitsubishi – Smooth 120 Hz
Panasonic – Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC)
Philips – HD Digital Natural Motion[4]
Samsung – Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz,[5] 240 Hz, Clear Motion Rate 100 Hz, 200 Hz, 400 Hz, 500 Hz, 600 Hz, 800 Hz (PAL video system), Clear Motion Rate 120 Hz, 240 Hz, 480 Hz, 600 Hz, 720 Hz, 960 Hz (NTSC video system)
Sharp – Fine Motion Enhanced,[6] AquoMotion 240 Hz,[7] AquoMotion Pro
Sony – MotionFlow 100 Hz, 100 Hz PRO (XBR series, Australia), 120 Hz, 200 Hz, 240 Hz, 400 Hz, 480 Hz, 800 Hz, 960 Hz.[8][9]
Toshiba – ClearScan 120 Hz, 240 Hz
Vizio – SmoothMotion [10]
Sceptre – MEMC (Motion Estimation/Motion Compensation)

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Dec 24, 2012

toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


So if 3d is no big deal, is there any reason to go to the st50 over the u50?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




toplitzin posted:

So if 3d is no big deal, is there any reason to go to the st50 over the u50?

Yes. The ST has a better panel with lower black levels and has an anti-glare filter.

Blinky2099
May 27, 2007



I'm looking for a TV for Movies/TV viewing in my room. The TV will be resting on a dresser that's pretty high up, so the TV needs to be able to tilt down a bit. I know some stands suck with this, so it's a pretty big deal to me.

Looking for anything around ~40 inches, definitely no more than 50, and anywhere in the 30s is fine. "Best bang for your buck" type deal would be nice. No strict budget, but I'd rather save a couple hundred dollars than get slightly better image quality. Somewhere around the $300-$600 range would be nice.

Can anyone suggest something like this for me?

Edit:

Chemmy posted:

Monoprice has wall mounts for that size TV that do tilts for $15 if that helps your search:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...&seq=1&format=2

I'd like to be able to move it between my dorm and room with ease, I'd rather avoid wall mounts if possible

Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 24, 2012

Chemmy
Feb 4, 2001



Monoprice has wall mounts for that size TV that do tilts for $15 if that helps your search:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...&seq=1&format=2

Hed
Mar 31, 2004



Fun Shoe

Does anyone have experience with RVU capable televisions? I heard the first generation of televisions was pretty slow to use the UI while watching over the network but recent faster processors may be better. Trying to get a critical mass of TVs capable so that I can put all the tuner boxes one location and TVs can just hook up via Ethernet.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Hed posted:

Does anyone have experience with RVU capable televisions? I heard the first generation of televisions was pretty slow to use the UI while watching over the network but recent faster processors may be better. Trying to get a critical mass of TVs capable so that I can put all the tuner boxes one location and TVs can just hook up via Ethernet.

As far as i know the 2011 or 10 samsung 6000 and up had RVU but i dont know if the new ones even have it anymore

upsciLLion
Feb 9, 2006

Bees?



This rumor has been posted and addressed several times at highdefjunkies. They don't seem to think much of it.

http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showt...ll=1#post360796

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toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


bull3964 posted:

Yes. The ST has a better panel with lower black levels and has an anti-glare filter.

Is that worth $400? That's the difference between the two as 50" models on amazon.

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