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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I abandoned my bias lighting when I got an OLED because pitch black is a superior viewing experience.

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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


That really really sucks since there's nothing else in the market even close.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Yeah, LG TV, Shield 2019, Google TV, Roku, Pioneer dp-ub820.

I've never seen HDMI CEC reliably power on the correct components and switch to all the correct inputs. I'm not even sure how that's supposed to work when I'm jumping from one device to another when everything is already powered on.

Really hope someone steps into the market and picks up the slack because a remote without activities is a nightmare in usability.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Yes all firmware is updated. CEC is still poo poo if you have anything more complex than a 1 or 2 device use case. Inputs across the whole chain don't always switch or they'll switch automatically when a device decides to wake up to do other things like update.

That's not too mention other macros and such that I have programmed to do more complex functions.

I just have to hope that my two hubs last forever.

American McGay posted:

Tell that to my cat who steps on my AppleTV remote while I'm watching the tense basketball game on my cable box.


That seems like a compelling example why it's an issue.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Apr 10, 2021

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Depends on your TV, the 2019 Shield is the only way I can get Dolby Vision and Atmos from streaming.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


couldcareless posted:

Speed Racer would like a word.

Not available in 4k HDR.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Because they would all be lies. Supply chain is so hosed, you have no idea if some chip that you need on some sub-component can even be gotten anymore.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Internet Explorer posted:

Pretty much the whole point of G1s are the flesh mount, which is included.

I didn't know that LG was doing Hellraiser themed TVs.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


All my TVs are larger than their stands. I think it looks fine.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Bright room issues with OLED are a myth.

So you have a SDR TV in there right now and can you see it? An HDR OLED is going to be several times brighter than that.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Reflection handling is a completely different thing from the panel brightness anyways. OLEDs aren't inherently more reflective, so if reflections are an issue on dark areas, it's going to be a problem no matter the TV.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


It's likely ASBL which is the auto brightness limiter on static images. If the scene isn't dynamic enough, the TV might think a static image is being displayed and start dimming.

I eventually turned it off on my C6, but you had to go into the service menu to do it.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "with it."

2-4 hours total of static images shouldn't bring you any issues with burn in. If it's 2-4 hours a day, that could cause issues eventually.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


If my C6 was flat I wouldn't have anything from it. Since it's curved, I'm retaining the foam pieces that fit in the curve to make it square.

The box itself takes up too much room though and I live in a 3 bedroom house.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Speaking of AppleTV, I got one of the new ones yesterday and it's...fine?

I mean, I mostly burned Best Buy rewards points on it so it didn't cost me much, but it hasn't been the second coming of streaming like I feel people were hyping up.

The auto framerate switching works well enough, when its enabled on the app level. It's just that there are several apps where it is not. Most channel provider apps that have commercials seem to lock in the base refresh rate (likely to prevent blanks during commercial switching), but Roku matches framerates in those apps. Peacock is another one that locks in the base framerate and auto-switches which is annoying.

Hulu does auto framerate switching (which seems to be disabled on Roku) but lacks 5.1 sound still.

The Movies Anywhere app doesn't recognize it as a 4k capable device. That's not a huge issue since there are multiple other ways to watch the movies, but still annoying.

My movie library in the YouTube app (formerly those movies were in the Google Play Movies app) lacks 4k or 5.1.

Also, what's up with the ATV decoding DD and DD+ streams and sending it to a receiver as multichannel PCM? In the end it shouldn't matter, but it's just weird. Atmos comes through properly though.

So, yeah, the one great streamer to rule them all doesn't exist. If Hulu had 5.1 and peacock had native framerate, this would be a lot closer. But for now it's mostly being able to use netflix and have a 60hz UI while having correct 24hz and 23.976 hz framerates without having to do manual switching like I do on the Shield. Hulu remains something I use my LG's internal WebOS on as there's no external streamer that does native framerate, 4k (on Hulu originals), and has 5.1 sound.

In summary.

Netflix:
ShieldTV- 5.1 and Atmos, can select native framerate manually by setting at a system level
GoogleTV-5.1 and Atmos, can only select 23.976 framerate manually at the system level, 24hz content will glitch
ATV- 5.1 (as multichannel PCM) and Atmos, auto switches framerate
Roku- 5.1 and Atmos, locked at 60hz

Amazon:
ShieldTV- 5.1 and Atmos, can select native framerate manually by setting at a system level
GoogleTV-5.1 and Atmos, can only select 23.976 framerate manually at the system level, 24hz content will glitch but is rarer on Amazon
ATV- 5.1 (as multichannel PCM) and Atmos, auto switches framerate
Roku- 5.1 and Atmos, auto switches framerate

Hulu
ShieldTV- 2 channel PCM surround only, attempting to select framerate other than 60hz causes massive AV sync issues
GoogleTV- 2 channel PCM surround only, attempting to select framerate other than 60hz causes massive AV sync issues
ATV- 2 channel PCM surround only, auto switches framerate
Roku- 5.1 but 60hz locked framerate
WebOS-5.1 and native framerate, some audio sync issues occur when the soundtrack is surround rather than 5.1

Peacock:
ShieldTV- Surround (some report 5.1), can select native framerate manually by setting at a system level
GoogleTV- Surround (some report 5.1), can select native framerate manually by setting at a system level
ATV- 5.1 (as multichannel PCM), locked at base display framerate
Roku-5.1, auto switches framerate

Other apps like Disney+ and HBO max appear to be mostly working to the full capabilities of the devices aside from GoogleTV appearing to only get HDR10 rather than DV for some reason (or maybe it's getting DV but not Atmos, I can't remember).

Some other notes:
Auto framerate switching on Hulu used to work on Roku, but it glitched sometimes and ended up zooming the screen, I wonder if they locked framerate rather than deal with the glitch.
GoogleTV is the only streamer that has a 1080i60 mode which has the broadest compatibility for 1080 SDR content for displays as often times motion engines were optimized around cable box outputs. I can set to 1080i60 and get native 24fps cadence on a wide range of material with my LG C6 without needing framerate switching.

In summary, streaming is hard if you want correct motion cadence and the highest output among all the services. There is no one box that gives you the best set of features across all platforms. Things are slighter better if you have a TV with a good motion engine that doesn't need native framerate.

Adding the ATV to my 4 other ways of streaming on my home entertainment system added few QoL enhancements (mainly 60hz UI) but didn't actually allow me to do anything I couldn't before. The unified list under channels WOULD be killer IF Hulu ad Peacock had correct/best output and netflix was represented there. But the later isn't going to happen and the former and a big "shrug" as to if/when they will get fixed.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:43 on May 26, 2021

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Things are a bit better for the C7 than the C6.

Rtings test for the C7

Judder-Free 24p: Yes
Judder-Free 24p via 60p : Yes
Judder-Free 24p via 60i : Yes
Judder-Free 24p via Native Apps: Yes

For the C6

Judder-Free 24p: Yes
Judder-Free 24p via 60p : No
Judder-Free 24p via 60i : Yes
Judder-Free 24p via Native Apps: Yes

The bolded part is the issue. Nearly all content is 24fps. 4k streamers, by default, output 4kp60 all the time so they are taking the native 24fps streams and doing a 3:2 conversion on them to fit them in a 60hz carrier (repeating one frame 3 times, the next 2 times). If a TV handles motion well, it will detect that 3:2 cadience as a 24fps source and display it in the correct cadence that works with the panel refresh rate (120hz panels do 5:5, 60hz panels will often underclock to 48hz and do 2:2).

Well, on the C6, it can only do that if the signal is 1080i60. If it's 1080p60 or 4kp60, it displays it with the same 3:2 pattern of the carrier and the motion isn't even. So, I need to feed the TV the pure 24hz output to get correct 24fps cadience from a progressive source. There are a lot of TVs that have this failing, the C6 is just a little unique in that it goes halfway there by being able to do it with 1080i60, most that aren't able to reverse 3:2 can't do it for either 60i or 60p. I can also fake it with the Google TV by outputing 1080i60. The conversion of that from 1080p60 is lossless for 24p content and then the TV can sort out the correct cadience. This is why I keep my Google TV on that setting and primarily use it for youtubeTV. The 1080p60 streams convert quite well to correct cadence using that method.

Not everyone can see the hitch and it's something that many grew up with because that's how CRTs operated. Once you are used to correct motion though, it's hard to go back.

Framerate switching is something that always gets a bit sticky when it collides with UX people though because there's a blank screen as the TV switches modes. If you add in applications that like to do video previews in the background or have ad inserts that may be any wide range of framerates, that blanking becomes frequent and they tend to try to force an experience that's locked down to one framerate (60hz).

Also, no algorithm is 100% perfect and it's possible for TVs to occasionally gently caress up the frame timing from stream glitches or other things, so even TVs that can do the decode can sometimes benefit from having native refresh rate fed to them.

Then there's the abomination, 30fps streaming of 24fps content. You see this frequently on provider channel applications. It needs to die in a fire because very few TVs have enough motion smarts to correct the cadence of that dumb cadence which is something like 1:1:1:2 (can't remember exactly).

There's also the more nerdy poo poo of 24fps vs 23.976fps. The later is what's been used since color TV was a thing (they slowed down the framerate so that they could hack color information into the signal.) That's unnecessary today with digital everything, but has been a holdover until recently when Netflix started doing originals at pure 24fps. So, most stuff that DID have a 24fps mode was 23.976, so full integer 24fps is something that's been a more recent software edition.

So, the long and the short of it is, if it looks fine to you, it looks fine. As long as you have Real Cinema turned on and Trumotion turned off on the C7, you should get correct cadence for the vast majority of stuff you watch with it.

What we really need though is for everyone to get their poo poo together when it comes to audio streams. 2 channel PCM doesn't cut it in 2021. Dolby Digital 5.1 or GTFO. It's shameful that we have new streaming services launching NOW without that core bit in place. I don't care if people are just using TV speakers at home, you can still hear the differences in compression.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 26, 2021

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


They do on select OnDemand content, depending on the streaming device. Which is really the same as Hulu as well.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Then you toss in some other weirdness which heaps on.

Like the C6 can only do Dolby Vision at 30fps or lower.

So, if you have something, like say, the newest Roku that does Dolby Vision and are planning on using it with the C6, hope you are good with 1080p60 DV because it won't automatically go to 4kp24 DV and there's no way to force that behavior. That also means if you have GoogleTV and just want to set it at 4k60, then you lose Dolby Vision if you have one of these TVs.

It's amazing if the vast majority of people are using even the smallest fraction of what their TVs can do at this point due to all of this.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


So, I did discover one nice pro to the AppleTV. If I leave it in 4k (23.976fps) mode, it will still switch to the proper framerate and content for apps that support switching. UI is still laggy doing that, but if I'm hitting content heavy in apps that don't support auto switching, at least I don't have to fiddle with the settings if I want to watch something from netflix or other apps that do. If Hulu managed to actually start supporting 5.1 on this thing, then I could in theory use it for the only streaming device.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


The thread is fine with not buying OLEDs, it's the spending the same amount of money or more for a TV of same size that's not an OLED where the eyebrow raising happens.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


But they are crying about blooming which of course they have blooming as any local dimming display will have.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


The WebOS apps on LG TVs are fully featured and pretty drat good and the magic remote is brilliant.

I would be really surprised if anyone enjoyed using a game console to stream over them.

You shouldn't need to hardwire unless you're wireless is really lovely.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


It's likely less component cost and more not wanting to field support calls when the TV fails to negotiate properly with the ancient 100mbps hub that someone has buried behind their tv.

Needing more then 100mbps of bandwidth on a smart tv is such a niche use case I can't really fault them.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I don't. Sure it looks neat in product photos, but I want my AV equipment to disappear into the background.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


If we could actually have one steamer to rule them all and it was the only thing connected, then that wouldn't be so bad.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Hulu is basically unusable on it so that's one major strike.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


It is a sin upon mankind that apple doesn't let you turn off the drat led on their device.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Silly Burrito posted:

Hulu Live or regular Hulu? Because we use regular Hulu all the time and haven't noticed anything different. I don't have Live though.


Regular Hulu. Switch output to 24fps (well 23.976) and let me know if your audio is even within 5 seconds of the action on the screen.

Works at 60p, but that's not optimal.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Internet Explorer posted:

Weird, I haven't noticed any problems with Hulu on my Shield TV.

Again, you have to be forcing 24fps to see the issue that I am. Happens both on the Shield and Google TV so it must be an issue in the Hulu app for the whole platform.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Silly Burrito posted:


Worked fine for me. I never had adjusted that before, but I pulled up a couple of shows, fast forwarded a bit, let it play, and it was fine. Commercials and shows were in sync while I was testing. I did notice that it seemed to make my menus feel a bit a slower so I set it back to default.

I'll have to try again then and see if they actually fixed it, been awhile since I tired Hulu on Android tv

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


No dice, just tried it on a fresh install of Hulu on my shield 2019. 4k 23.976hz just has random freezes of the video on the title cards for the show and then doesn't do anything other than audio. Exiting the video and restarting has it in sync for a bit, but then it will glitch and get further and further out of sync.

I have commercial free Hulu and I wonder if ironically the switch between the content and commercials is the thing that fixes it.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


After massive backlash, they fixed the AppleTV HBO Max app. Native player is back.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


People rely on CEC and then complain when it never works as expected. Most people are just using their TV apps and MAYBE a cable box so they don't have much to juggle.

There's nothing else out there that really has the concept of activities where youu set a run state for components and then have the buttons blended for everything.

Sofabaton is more a traditional universal remote where you switch its context between various devices. It can do macros and you can reassign buttons for cross device purposes (for example, when you are using TV, you can remap the volume keys to control soundbar volume), but it's not quite the same as an activity.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jun 9, 2021

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I will say it again.....

gently caress every AV manufacturer for not coming together and providing a common API interface that lets you change every setting on your equipment to a specific value with a simple call.

It would be harmony on steroids and open for anyone to develop an app and automation. Want to change your tint to 53 while watching Disney+ and 48 when watching YouTube TV? Sure, no problem. Want to set the audio delay to 100ms while watching Roku and 107ms when watching a UHD disc? Great, you got it.

Clicking through 5 levels of menus to change one setting is something straight out of the 1990s. The whole industry is behind the times.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


That's what I paid for my 65 C6 back in 2016.

Tempting, but 3d is probably going to keep me using this tv until it dies or there's some other significant leap in tech.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Incessant Excess posted:

For gaming, gsync and 120hz were that leap in my opinion.

I don't game on my living room tv so that's not a consideration there.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I have a KV-32FS13 sitting in my basement right now. Been trying to convince a friend to take it off my hands for his retro gaming room plans. I just can't bring myself to junk it.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


For regular blu-ray, MakeMKV. I haven't ventured into trying to do anything for UHD blurays.

My collection got big enough that I decided to rip my HD blurays to a NAS at full quality and only keep UHDs on the shelves (packing away the 1080p discs after ripping).

I just do the main feature, if I want to take a look at special features I'll dig the disc out. I use Kodi on the Shield pointed at the NAS share to give a nice front end.

Works well, no re-encoding so it's full quality and the Shield passes through all audio formats so there's no compromise there as well.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


2016 6 series was a pretty significant jump from the prior gen, since then there hasn't been much until the G1 series. Even that though I don't think is a whole new panel design.

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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


The question is, why would you want one? 8k content isn't a thing and it's not going to be a thing. Nothing gaming can drive at 8k.

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