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McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Hi thread, I have a quick question about HDTVs and games. I'm looking for a TV that's strong in two areas: input lag and smooth motion. Now, I know how to check input lag. The smooth motion part gives me trouble. My current Sony TV has a "Motion Flow" setting that gives me a nice smooth picture. If I look around in a 1st person game I get very little motion blur. Unfortunately, all the extra processing the TV does to make that happen starts to introduce a noticeable amount of input lag.

So my question is this: what do I need to look for in a TV in order to get a smooth moving picture without introduction input lag? Do I need to be looking at high refresh rates like 240Hz? Would that help even if the game is only outputting like 60 frames a second? Or am I confusing two different things?

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McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



bull3964 posted:

At the end of the day though, you're getting 60fps out of that console on a good day (likely, the framerate will spend some time a bit lower than that.) So, it's never going to be all that smooth, high end TV or no.

Slowhanded posted:

Getting a TV that can draw at 60hz+ isn't going to help if you're seeking higher framerates without the input lag created by the necessary calculations from your TV - it's the input (e.g., the console) that's bottle necking you.

Well, it sounds like if I'm gonna be all fussy about frame rates and motion blur I'm better off back in PC gaming land. Thanks for the responses.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Don Lapre posted:

Yea, the R&D has already been done, Smart tv functionality is a feature add at this point with better tvs.

A TV that didn't have to "boot up" would be a feature add for me. I just want a 46" version of my Dell monitor.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Don Lapre posted:

Even non smart tv's take time to turn on. I cant say my 32" dumb led samsung takes any less time to turn on than my f8500 plasma.

Well, all my HDTVs take forever to turn on and for like a minute afterwards if I try to do anything but change the channel I get a little message that says "Your TV is still starting up. Please wait." No such troubles with my computer monitor. I just hate that I can't switch to my PS4 right away because my TV is busy spinning up their crappy Netflix interface that I never use.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



bows1 posted:

Well I've never really had a good TV before, so I want a good 24fps setting (which I didn't even know was rare now!) since I love movies, and watch them more than most things.

Next would be Gaming, I use my PS4.

Then I guess sports!

But really its about getting a nice 60" or so TV that will last a while and not be a lot more than 1000. My friend told me the samsung was better due to the Samsung Evo kit, which I don't know anything about,

edit - also between my PS4 and Apple TV I dont envision using the apps on the TV at all.

I own a W850B that I mostly use for movies and gaming on my PS4 and I'm very happy with it. My only complaint is that you can't change the inputs while it's "booting up" but I guess all smart TVs are like that. I never mess with the smart apps since I also have an Apple TV but they did seem kinda clunky the few times I messed with them.

On the plus side:
  • The image quality is great. Zero complaints here.
  • The input lag is very low in gaming mode.
  • When I turn my PS4 on it turns the TV on and sets it to the right input automatically which is really drat cool.
This might all be true of that Samsung as well but I can tell you the Sony is a safe bet.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



For years now my dream TV has been an imaginary giant computer monitor.

-Low latency.
-Minimal image processing.
-Instant on/no boot-up time for a bunch of apps I'll never use.

For a split second I thought those Nividia based gaming TVs might fit the bill but now I'm afraid having an Nividia shield means slow start-up will still be a problem. I hate living in a future where I can't change the input on my TV because the drat thing is still booting up.

Also they look tacky.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Rtings has a category for TVs as PC monitors. Might be worth skimming.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



The Gunslinger posted:

It is a real problem for that kind of viewing activity so you made the right choice. Definitely don't get an OLED for "background" style viewing.

While image retention is real issue I'm surprised more hasn't been made of the automatic brightness limiter (ABL).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9OvPfPd8s0#t=276s

In short, if all the pixels in an OLED are near full white it draws a lot of power and overheats. So, once the screen reaches a certain threshold it automatically cuts the brightness to prevent overheating. Apparently it rarely happens with movies but it's more noticeable with video games. My current Sony TV had some sort of default power saving mode that would fuss with the brightness in a similar fashion and it drove me crazy until I found it deep in an obscure menu and turned it off. If all OLEDs do this then it's a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Well that's encouraging. Either of you play a lot of games or do you mostly watch movies and TV? I saw a lot of complaints about about screen brightness while playing games on the 2017 LG OLEDs.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



BIG HEADLINE posted:

Only downside to it as a 'Mom & Dad' TV is the remote is super-simplistic and has no number inputs on it.

I dunno, a simplified remote might not be a bad thing.



To actually contribute, Wirecutter and Rtings like the TCLs too. I'm still kinda unsure about Chinese electronics. It seems like they always turn out to be partially owned by the Chinese government and since they all have cameras and microphones in them now I'm not sure I'm cool with that.

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jun 10, 2018

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Internet Explorer posted:

Couldn't wait for the G1 so I picked up a C1 77. It is absolutely glorious.

I finally have a PS5 on the way so I'm gonna go ahead and pull the trigger on a 65" C1. Anything I should know going in? Never messed with an OLED or HDR TV before.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Here's a stupid question, how bad would it look if a TV is a few inches wider than the stand it's sitting on?

I have a TV stand that's 63" wide. The 65" LG C1 is 57" wide which fits nicely. But the 77" model is 68" wide which would hang off the ends of the stand by about 2.5" on each side. The "foot" of the TV fits fine in either case so it would be stable. I'm just worried about it looking a little over-sized.

Small price to pay for a bigger screen? I don't want to replace the stand or wall-mount the TV.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Ah! Someone clued me in to the fact that the Best Buy app has an excellent AR mode to help you pick a TV size.

65"


77"


I think the 77" is overwhelming the space. 65" feels like the way to go. I'll go clean my dining table now.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Got my new LG C1 all hooked up to my new PS5. Man, RE8 looks fantastic in 4k HDR. I feel like I can see everything clear as day. Dark shadows, bright white areas, it doesn't matter.

The only scary part was putting the stand on the bottom. The instructions tell you to lay the TV flat on the ground screen side down and then lift one end to attach the stand. This TV is like three credit cards thick. I thought I was gonne snap it in two.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Social Animal posted:

How are your eyes btw? Any strain or sickness? Iím about to return my CX for the Vizio M series because no matter what settings I change my brother and I get nauseous. RE8 looked incredible but felt horrible! Both pissed off and embarrassed.

Nothing like that going on here. VR makes me mildly motion sick sometimes, but not this TV. Sorry about your rotten luck with it.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



asciidic posted:

I laid mine face down on the box it came in, which made connecting the stand pretty easy, but yeah I thought for sure it would break under its own weight while laying it down and picking it back up. The screen flexed a bit but didn't seem to cause any problems.

Hmm, good thinking.

I thought about laying it face down on my bed to do that but then I picked up the stand and drat near dislocated my shoulder. Holy poo poo it was heavy! I was worried if I bolted that on it would just snap off without something to hold the weight of the stand. So I just said, "gently caress it, just do what the instructions say."

Everything worked out. I'm a little concerned that I can wiggle the top of the screen back and forth by like half an inch, but it always settles back straight and absolutely nothings is moving that stand.

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 18:17 on May 17, 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Apologies if you tried this already, but did you make sure the black frame insertion feature is turned off? That can actually make the screen flicker a bit.

I forget what LG calls it in their TVs. Why do they always need special little names for these things?

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Arcsech posted:

Maybe someone in this thread can help. I just set up a 5.1.2 sound system with a new Yamaha TSR-700 receiver. It works great, except that it absolutely refuses to play audio through the surround speakers.

The speakers work just fine when using the "Test tone" function on the receiver, and the YPAO auto-calibration recognizes them and sets them up just fine. But I can't get audio to play through them - the audio that's supposed to go to the surrounds just plays on the left/right front channel instead.

The receiver says the audio decoder is "PCM" when I use ARC/eARC from my LG C9 set, regardless of whether eARC is enabled or whether the audio format is set to "Passthrough", "PCM", or "Auto". When I run HDMI through the receiver, it switches to "Atmos/PCM" and plays through the presence speakers... but still not the surrounds. The manual says if audio is only playing through the front channels, the receiver must be set to "2ch Stereo" mode, but it definitely isn't. I've even done a factory reset on the receiver, still no joy.

This is driving me up the wall. Anyone have any ideas? I have an email out to Yamaha but my expectation is that they'll be as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

Getting just 5.1 PCM to pass through a TV is a colossal pain in the neck. No idea about 5.1.2. The quickest way out of this jam is to have your source device output Dolby Digital/bitstream instead of PCM. But I'm not sure if that supports 5.1.2 either.

Edit: Here's an example of the stuff you have to do just to get 5.1 PCM though an LG CX with updated firmware.

quote:

LG CX:
-Digital Sound Out: Pass Through
-eARC: On
-HDMI Input Audio Format: Bitstream (setting for the PS5 HDMI port)

PS5 settings:
-HDMI Device Type: TV
-Audio Format: Linear PCM

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 20, 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Arcsech posted:

Thanks, Iíll give this a shot - but Iím actually okay running everything I want Atmos on through the receiver rather than relying on ARC, but it would be nice if 5.1 content actually used all 5 speakers instead of just the front 3.

Sorry, I may have misunderstood the problem. If you pass a 5.1 (or higher I guess) PCM signal through any equipment that doesn't support it or that isn't set up right then you usually get stereo or 2.1. But if you're quite certain that your center channel speaker is working then it may be something else besides a PCM pass-through issue.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Seconding an LG C1. I thought OLED was hype. But starting Resident Evil 8 on my (good in it's day) LED TV and then switching to an HDR OLED was a game changer. The dark parts of the screen just look normal now. I don't feel like I'm squinting to see stuff anymore.

SDR content is a bit underwhelming though. I can't tell if it's because I'm spoiled now or if I need to tweak SDR picture settings some more. I'm still a little bit confused by how some settings get grayed out and others show back up when I switch between HDR and SDR content.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Here's a little tip for LG C1 owners who have a Nintendo Switch hooked up:
  • Set 'Color Gamut' to 'Native'
  • Set 'Gamma' to '1.9'

The Switch looked awfully dull until I figured out those two settings for the HDMI input it was using. I know that's not what places like rtings.com tell you to do but most of their advice is probably geared towards film content.

HDR games sure look amazing on the C1 but SDR games always seems to need some extra tweaking so they don't look broken.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



I had a similar problem with the PS5's HDR setting. There are two options:
  • HDR always on
  • HDR on only when supported.

Everyone talked poo poo about the always on feature because it "tone mapped" SDR content to HDR. Like it messed with the original creative vision or whatever so I set it to "only when supported" at first. Well SDR games looked awful, washed out, and broken. Literally worse than my seven year old Sony LCD. I turned it back to "always on" and things looked amazing again.

Is that another example of advice for film content being a poor fit for video games? Or am I just so wowed by my OLED TV that I'm cranking everything up too high?

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



I have a question for LG TV owners about the HDMI-CEC (the thing that lets devices control your TV via HDMI)

Here's what I want to happen and what used to happen with my old TV:
1.) I turn on my PS5 .
2.) The TV turns on.
3.) The TV switches to the PS5's HDMI input.

Here's what's actually happening:
1.) I turn on my PS5.
2.) The TV turns on.
3.) The TV turns on my Apple TV because that was the last HDMI input I was using.
4.) The TV tries to switch to the PS5's HDMI input but the Apple TV keeps trying to switch it back to itself.

Any way to tell the TV to change to the correct input BEFORE trying to power stuff on?

Edit:
I think I got the behavior I was after by disabling this setting:
General/Devices/TV/Quick Start +

But now everything is much slower to turn on and my ARC speakers don't always turn on. I guess the TV wasn't actually turning all the way off with Quick Start + enabled. It was just some sort of stand-by mode.

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 14:33 on May 26, 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



codo27 posted:

...not before seriously considering dismantling every possession I owned and descending upon the wilderness for perhaps the rest of my existence

Feeling this more and more.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Imma just go lay in bed and watch stuff on my laptop instead.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Internet Explorer posted:

I've had my C1 for a couple of weeks now and this poo poo is fantastic. I am never going back.

Literally same. C1 and everything.

I held off because everyone was talking about poo poo like "black levels" and "high dynamic range" and I was making a jerking off motion with my hand the entire time. But I finally got a PS5 so I took the plunge.

drat, this really is different, huh?

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Flint_Paper posted:

Why is buying a new television so exceptionally stressful.

It definitely feels like there are more settings and compatibility concerns now than ever before. It doesn't help that each manufacturer feels the need to give standard features their own special little name. Just call it "black frame insertion" because names like "Clear Motion Plus" just muddy the waters.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



BonoMan posted:

I mean... I'm sure people would get used to it but yeah my first reaction was a mix between film and a nature documentary. Just an odd feeling that took me out of "movie mode"

I'm surprised years of video games haven't broken me of that. But high frame rate live action still looks "cheap" for some reason. Guess I'm just going to be stuck with that association for life.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



The Question IRL posted:

But we are getting generations raised on 60 fps in games and Mobile Phone footage. Surely that will bleed over to generations wanting to see that in their other media?

The video game thing didn't help me. The phone example just means younger people will say "It looks like someone recorded this on their phone." The problem isn't that we haven't been exposed to 60 fps but rather the content we associate with 60 fps like soap operas and recorded interviews on the evening news.

Also, the high frame rate does give you a "clearer" look at what's happening which doesn't always help. It does look more realistic but it's realistic in the sense that it looks like you're watching actors on a movie set. Maybe that's just something the film makers need to account for in some way or another. Like how hair and makeup had to work differently once HDTV became a thing.

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 23:13 on May 30, 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



American McGay posted:

Never connect your new TV to the internet and use a 3rd party device for streaming like a Chromecast or an AppleTV.

The drat things need firmware updates from time to time tho. :(

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Goddammit!

I just found out why my Nintendo Switch always looked so bad on my LG C1. There's a setting buried way deep in the "Support" menu called "adjust logo brightness" that apparently messes with the brightness to keep things like the CNN logo from burning into the screen. I had turned that off before but apparently you have to turn it off for each HDMI input.

I turned it off and the picture from my Switch started looking normal again. Same sort of thing happened with an "auto energy saving" feature on my last TV. I hate that!

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



I don't know the first thing about wall mounts but they seem like an odd thing to cheap out on considering what's at stake.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Gyshall posted:

I'm in the market for a 75 inch TV... We mostly do Netflix/Plex content, occasionally sports.

I usually go with The Wirecutter for recommendations but I wanted to check with you goons would suggest for my use case and current electronics climate.

That's not a terribly demanding criteria. Have a look here for a second opinion after Wirecutter: The 6 Best 70-75-77 Inch TVs - Spring 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



OLED and HDR were that leap for me. I started Resident Evil 8 on a 1080p LCD but upgraded to a 4k OLED half way through. My immediate reaction was "oh I can see just fine in the dark areas now even though they look darker than before". No more squinting into a grey fog.

The downside is there are way more settings to fiddle with and some of them turn on or off depending on if you're watching SDR or HDR content. So it's like you have to adjust the picture twice for every input.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Sioux posted:

practical use

See this is the wrong attitude.

I'm guessing retro games though.

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Have a look at this RTINGS.com article: The 5 Best TVs For PS5 - Spring 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



My LG C1 just recently installed a new firmware. I went into the settings menu and saw this.



I now see a completely different settings menu when the TV is in game mode. loving kill me. I should have just bought a big rear end PC monitor. I mean, I appreciate the effort. But now I have yet another set of setting and muscle memory to keep up with. So now I have.
  • Picture settings for SDR
  • Picture settings for HDR
  • Menus for video games
  • Menus for movies and TV
It was bad enough when the TV would hide and show options between SDR and HDR. But now that the entire menu topography is changing when to you into game mode? Noooo thank you!

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jul 2, 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



American McGay posted:

Why wouldn't you want this? Also isn't that more of a "set it once and then forget it" kinda thing?

My complaint is the menus completely re-arrange themselves under certain conditions. I would be fine with settings just greying out when they weren't relevant. That's part of why it's taking so long to "set it and forget it". Also the TV is full of "smart" features that try to auto-adjust the picture. I keep finding new ones to turn off. Oh, and the TV has a bad audio lag issue when I try to pass Dolby Digital audio through it. I had just spent an hour monkeying with that when I tried updating the firmware and then that new "gamer menu" showed up.

I'm losing patience with this TV.

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jul 2, 2021

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



So has anyone ever found a solution to the LG audio sync issues? I'm at my wits end here and starting to kind of resent my new LG C1. The root of the problem is this:

Dolby Digital = Noticeable audio lag. Characters lips start moving and then half a second later the audio starts.
PCM = No lag but no surround sound either. Everything is in stereo.

I know folks are going to tell me to bypass the TV for audio but that's not really an option with my setup.

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jul 7, 2021

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McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006



Flint_Paper posted:

Excitingly though, it works! I've got an LG CX and it works a treat. It took a little fiddling with the TV's & PS5 audio settings, but it actually did what I wanted it to do.

Well, I have a confession, I bought one of these too. Except it didn't work for me at all and then I felt like a rube. I can get stereo PCM out of the headphone jack but that's it. That means I can get audio from my PS5 through my LG C1 to the adapter but my AV equipment can't "hear" it. If you'd be willing to share your PS5 and TV settings I'd love to compare notes.

My first and biggest question, are you passing it PCM 7.1 or Dolby Digital (bitstream) 7.1?

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