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Maybe you've heard about Eador : Masters of the broken worlds ; it's a russian fantasy turn based strategy game, which will be out in a few months (maybe january if we are lucky). You can sign up for the beta here : http://www.snowbirdgames.com/forum/index.php?threads/beta-sign-up.64/. Well, in fact it's just a graphical remake of a 2009 game, Eador : Genesis, which is available on GoG for less than 5 euros. It is, for the first time, available in English, which makes it quite more accessible than the russian version. And it really rocks. I mean, i think it could well be one of those classic TBS, right up there with AoW : SM, Homm 2-3, MoM, and it sure is quite better than most recent terrible tbs (Fallen Enchantress, and Warlock, for example, even if Warlock was not that bad). Okay, let's begin with the bad stuff : the music is really generic, not really good. It makes me think of Spectromancer's elevator music, maybe even worse. The graphics, even if the game went out in 2009, have a really strong "mid 1990s" touch, which is both great and bad. It's really charming :  But it's also stuck at a 800x600 resolution. The interface is really heavy, there are lots of buttons everywhere, as the hero screen, for example, shows :  but at the same time it is quite clear, even if the ergonomy could be improved (for example, it would be great if right clicking could close a window) ; and there are lots and lots of details and statistics. Okay, now, why does it rock ? Because it does everything a fantasy TBS should do, and it does it right. Basically, you have a strategic view, with provinces between which your hero and his army can travel. These provinces have lots of possible locations, caves, dungeons, cities, that can be investigated from the strategic map ; often, choosing to investigate a location will lead you to a fight on the tactical map. I think we all know the basic recipe of fantasy TBS so i won't go further about the gameplay. But what's great about it, you may ask ? - It is hard. Don't expect to roll over everything ; it has a "roguelike-ish" feeling, in that you may well encounter enemies and locations that are far too difficult for you, and die horribly in the first turns of the game. The IA is good, even in the tactical battles. They protect their archers, they use combos. Seriously, winning your first game feels like an achievement, and that's cool. If you expand too fast, you will get slaughtered ; too slow, same thing. But it's FUN. - It is rich. Every little color, every clickable thing, has a well written description, which makes the lore quite cool. There are statistics everywhere, all the info is easily viewable. - The tactical battles are great.  You don't "stack" units a la homm : you don't have a stack of 15000 peasants against 5000 dragons, all units are individuals. They have a stamina statistic that runs off every time they do something, which adds strategic options. Spells are numerous and fun ; units gain xp, etc. It's well made, and it works well. Your hero is on the battlefield and fights alongside your units. You have to know your enemy to fight it efficiently, undead and bandits are not the same thing at all. To be perfectly honest, there is a lot of tactical fights in the game, maybe too much. - There are lots of interesting choices to be made. Do you, for example, try to conquer a new province, or do you try to fully explore the oes you own already ? Which buildings do you prefer ? You cannot build everything, and there are dozens of upgrades. Which spells do you choose ? In fact, one of the greatest quality of this game is that there are a tremendous number of options, but you can choose only a few. This is quite interesting and rewarding when things work your way. - The rpg aspects are great as well : your hero can choose skills according to what he does on the battlefield, you can equip various items (there even are item sets which give different boni, a la diablo) ; your units also gain xp and get better and better. Since they are individual, losing one can be heartbreaking. The four hero classes play very differently. - You can play on fully customised and random maps, which is always cool. - The campaign and the tutorial are well made and interesting. I'll stop here, i already wrote too much ; but if you like fantasy TBS even only a bit, you really have to try this, for 5 euros it is a total steal. I'd love to hear what you guys think about it ! 
Ugrok fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 19, 2012 14:08
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So, Genesis is already out on GoG, and Masters of the Broken Worlds is just the same game with better graphics? Think I might give Genesis a try then, it sound kinda up my alley. edit: apparently they have a greenlight http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=93959913
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Dec 19, 2012 14:09
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Yes, thanks for pointing the steam greenlight out. MOTBW is just a graphical remake of Genesis, but they will add a few gameplay tweaks and multiplayer options if i understood right.
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Dec 19, 2012 14:13
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A shame that this hasn't gotten more publicity (and that the thread seems to be dying), because the game really is amazing. One nitpick I have, though, is that it tends to hide information from you quite a bit. I have no clue what determines your alignment, for example; I tried being as benevolent as possible, always aiding the populace (when I had the resources to), keeping them happy etc - and after I conquered the shard I was remembered as "evil". What the hell? I did summon a whole lot of imps with my wizard hero, though - does that lower your alignment? Most of my armies were lawful / good.
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Dec 21, 2012 22:30
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Dropbear posted:I did summon a whole lot of imps with my wizard hero, though - does that lower your alignment? Most of my armies were lawful / good. Thats exactly it, from what I can gather from the google translated russian wiki any magic that looks evil (i.e. necromancy/chaos) drags down your alignment.
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Dec 21, 2012 22:34
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I like the game, but I feel the campaign's maps are a bit lacking. By that I mean there are a few too many maps with very little variety between them in terms of what is actually going on. Most of the story gets told in the Astral realm outside of the main gameplay (so far anyway), before going back to yet another spot of fighting the same kinds of enemies for an hour or two. At first that made sense, since it let you figure out how the new units you could use after winning access to them in earlier maps would affect your game, especially if you were new to the genre or this game in particular. But after a while it just grows irritating and kind of a drag that feels like a lot of padding to extend the game. Guess I've been spoiled by HoMM's campaigns.
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Dec 21, 2012 23:22
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One of the changes for the next game is about the length of the single player campaign, which should become more "focused" and feel overall less padded with repetition. I haven't played deep into the campaign myself yet, so I can't comment on the state of it in Genesis, but so far the game seems really really REALLY good if you like the genre. It's just like a mix and match from the better aspects of similar games, hard but not overly complex. Not to mention it costs 6$.
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Dec 22, 2012 09:35
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Don't see why you would play the campaign at all considering there's a random map generator, don't understand TBS games without them (AKA no random map gen makes this poo poo insanely boring [see the new XCOM]). Fortunately, the random map generator is competent and has the game's true roguelike feel embedded in it, in the sense that your starting position can completely gently caress you over. Finding out how to escape such an abysmal situation with the wealth of options the game offers you is what makes it so fun however. Oh, and "boni" is the single most irritating thing that anyone can possibly say. gently caress dude, that is not the plural.
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Dec 22, 2012 12:41
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The new xcom is actually really fun and not boring at all? 
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Dec 22, 2012 13:21
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Necroneocon posted:The new xcom is actually really fun and not boring at all? It's insanely boring, the same progression each time, the same tactics each time on the same level cells that are just massive prefab chunks with only a few unique mission objectives.. The difficulty levels are even worse as it employs the typical mistake of HP bloat and depriving the player of the same. Eador actually demonstrates exactly what to do right when it comes to what XCOM did wrong, the randomization is good, there's a wealth of strategy on both the grand and strategic layers, there's a huge limit on your resources and several ways to exploit them that don't just lead in a linear line where you don't have to sacrifice anything beyond just saving it for later. Lil Swamp Booger Baby fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Dec 22, 2012 |
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Dec 22, 2012 16:32
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How good is the translation?
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Dec 22, 2012 16:54
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Haven't noticed any evident errors yet (but then again English isn't my language, so I might miss things), and there's a lot of written stuff between descriptions, random events and tooltips.
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Dec 22, 2012 18:29
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I dove in and I've played a bit. Holy poo poo this game  I can't tell if it completely falls apart later, but the sheer amount of stuff you can do in here is awesome. Afaict, it has everything, I mean everything from any fantasy tbs/rpg/etc ever, from building up your stronghold with an insane amount of structures to forming your armies to developing your heroes to managing your provinces. It's like Ultra HoMM. And yes, the translation seems to be completely solid. The UI is a little cludgy (but not unintentionally awful), and the graphics aren't going to win any awards, but they're perfectly servicable. I'll post a longer trip report later, but so far this is the most promising tbs I've played in quite some time.
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Dec 22, 2012 20:34
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victrix posted:Holy poo poo this game Yup. Just bought this and played for 5 hours straight. God drat. Are there any tricks to finding resources easier? I'm desperately in need of Horses and Iron. I haven't found any resources by searching yet, I guess it's pretty rare to find them like that? I guess I should just keep spreading around as much as possible until I can find some.
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Dec 22, 2012 23:33
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Was already interested but the two posts directly above mine have pretty much sold me on this. A fantasy TBS with huge amounts of stuff? I... may need a moment here.
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Dec 22, 2012 23:41
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Yup. Just bought this and played for 5 hours straight. God drat. Same. This game  Not that I've seen. You can find resources by searching provinces, I found Mithril in one of mine (guarded by a bunch of rear end in a top hat dwarves, who I relieved of their ore  ).Otherwise though, you need to expand, and if you can't find some, you can trade for it with an AI - surprisingly, I was able to get both Iron and Redwood from my neighbor for something like 20gold a turn, which he later jacked up to 33, but it still saved me hundreds in unit recruiting fees. (The Diplo AI is probably as bad as every tbs game ever - there's _zero_ indication if an offer will be accepted, so that area is definitely weak.) Oh, and Scout heroes get a trait line that improves their ability to search provinces more quickly, which is really handy... and they get the Diplomacy line, though I suspect Commanders may get that also (I went Scout/Mage initially). I can't tell exactly how alignment affects the game, I played goody two shoes, avoided necromancy/chaos spells, did the good thing in most events at some cost, and while my provinces were quite happy, I'm not sure how else it affects development/units/etc - I'm playing a random map, not the campaign. I set it to Skilled (one notch up from the baseline), and after 2/3 other AIs were wiped out, my neighbor declared war and jumped all over me. I'm currently fighting for my life, but I suspect it's a loosing battle. We'll see. Been a blast so far though. Whatever flaws the AI might have in diplo (and possibly Strategic... but I don't know if that's the case), it can definitely handle tactical combat fine. Don't attack developed Lizardmen colonies unless you like being petrified  I'm gonna dive back in and finish this one way or another, then start a new game and go Commander/Warrior to try the other side of the fence Yeah. This game owns. 
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Dec 23, 2012 00:26
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I seemed to get wrecked doing anything other than Necromancer, the ability to replenish troops during and after battle is amazing.
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Dec 23, 2012 04:04
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Thanks to you folks and the people in the GOG thread, my wife and I decided to bite on this game. I've yet to get a spin: She played for five hours last night. Tonight, we're at three and counting. I'm just having fun appreciating the depth, making decisions, celebrating victories -- and cursing slugs -- with her. She's even spent some away time discussing strategies, schemes and other elements. I have not seen her this into a game since, hm, Eastside Hockey Manager 2005, HOMM III or even Morrowind. Seriously, I really dig this game. More importantly, she does.
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Dec 23, 2012 04:53
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I am still only in the tutorial battle, but how do you deal with a discontent populace in a providence? Every human providence has every battle ending with them being (understandably) pissed, but negotiating demands extorbant prices.
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Dec 23, 2012 07:48
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Look through the building tech tree, some of them give province buildings that improve mood. There's also a ritual that helps. I don't know if guards or heroes help...
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Dec 23, 2012 07:59
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I guess I was a bit taken aback by the fact that city management is actually city management, and not purely a vehicle to strengthen your force, ala HoMM. Both are good, but in different ways.
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Dec 23, 2012 08:08
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Are units and/or buildings locked out on you during early campaign missions? The freaking tutorial boss on Beginner has better units than I do (Best ones I have are spearmen), and I figure that I need to grind out a few more army slots (Currently at level 5) and get the healer units.
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Dec 23, 2012 10:44
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quote:Oh, and "boni" is the single most irritating thing that anyone can possibly say. gently caress dude, that is not the plural. Aahahahha sorry, i hate to disappoint the forae But yeah, after a few days playing, really, get this game guys. PS : yeah, in the beginning of the campaign some buildings are locked.
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Dec 23, 2012 11:09
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I'm just playing random maps, which own Also you can play up to 16 players on a colossal sized map  Game is so good
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Dec 23, 2012 17:26
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The Quake posted:I seemed to get wrecked doing anything other than Necromancer, the ability to replenish troops during and after battle is amazing. I'm pretty much in the same position  I can't wait till the updated version comes out, this is pretty awesome for $5.
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Dec 23, 2012 17:31
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Yea, I've been enjoying the hell out of this. It's really challenging though, the AI is much more competent than in most 4X games and it has a different dynamic where you need to level up your hero on NPCs to be able to beat the guards the AI has.
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Dec 23, 2012 17:32
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Blarrgh, is the third difficulty level after skilled (Competent etc?) really this goddamn hard or am I just bad? Skilled is usually pretty easy if I get the ball rolling (as in, don't get ruined by those "barbarians attack, you lose"-events before I get my mills / mines pumping cash), but competent just wrecks my poo poo immediately. In skilled, I tend to rush for pikemen / crossbowmen with a commander. Seems like those two units are far, -far- better than anything else in the first tier - pikemen have first strike so they can ruin pretty much any other low tier melee unit, while crossbows can pierce armor. I just can't get there in competent since I have less money, conquering anything is damned hard and buildings cost more.
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Dec 23, 2012 17:40
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That might be your problem actually - look at the prices and upkeeps on the units you chose, those are some of the most expensive. The evil units are way, wayyyyyy cheaper. You get a bit less gold from loot if you use them, but the tradeoff is you can re-recruit them for nothing.
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Dec 23, 2012 18:05
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Is there a way to pick your race in custom games? I must be blind because I looked twice and didn't see it.
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Dec 23, 2012 18:52
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Not that I've seen. I haven't played the campaign though, so I didn't even know you could play other races, I thought you just allied with them for unique buildings. Also I just lost my second game  That's marks the second time I've lost in a fantasy tbs in quite some time  (No really, that's a good thing - I picked up Fallen Enchantress recently because hey, free game, and plowed through my first game on whatever the 'full ai difficulty' setting was. Same for Warlock.) ... that's two losses on the second of seven difficulties  I think this game may play best with diplo simply disabled, so its a straight up wargame ala Warlords, because the Diplo AI feels rather weak, but the tactical AI is solid, and as for strategic, well, see above (or I'm bad, also a possibility).
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Dec 23, 2012 20:54
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victrix posted:That might be your problem actually - look at the prices and upkeeps on the units you chose, those are some of the most expensive. The evil units are way, wayyyyyy cheaper. You get a bit less gold from loot if you use them, but the tradeoff is you can re-recruit them for nothing. Hm, I might have to try the cheaper units again. I tried a couple of games with barbarians and slingers / bowmen, but those didn't really get anywhere since the units seemed damned weak by comparison and died constantly (except bowmen, those were alright). Which unit choices have worked for others here on the harder difficulties? Also, I just tried to explore my first dragon's lair. Christ, I had an almost full group (maybe 1 or 2 slots free of the whole board) of crossbowmen and pikemen + some healers and a horseman. All were ridiculously experienced, and my commander was around level 15 as well. Surely it can't beat this all by itself, right? It could. I barely got it to half HP before it ate my last few guys. Good thing the revert time-option is there.. Wonder what kind of a beastly army you need to take these bastards down, since mine could already roll over the rest of the shard with zero trouble whatsoever.
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Dec 23, 2012 21:35
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Ugh I hate not being able to stack units. HoMM did it right so many years ago, why are we regressing?
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Dec 23, 2012 21:48
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Mr.48 posted:Ugh I hate not being able to stack units. HoMM did it right so many years ago, why are we regressing? Actually, I like individual units more in Eador. I don't think it's inherently better or worse, just a different design choice. Works when everything is balanced around it. Dropbear fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 21:50
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Agreed, and I prefer it this way. Keeps fights interesting longer, particularly if you don't rewind.
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Dec 23, 2012 21:55
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Dropbear posted:Actually, I like individual units more in Eador. I don't think it's inherently better or worse, just a different a design choice. Works when everything is balanced around it. I find that stacking units adds more flexibility by allowing early-game units to remain useful since you can just bring in huge stacks. The player has to ask himself whether to fill a slot in his army with a larger stack of weaker units, or a small stack of stronger units? With single unit restrictions the answer is obvious: You take the strongest unit you can afford. Also bringing a gigantic stack of units adds a certainly feeling of badassery that you only get from leading a true army. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 22:16
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Doesn't work that way in this game, higher level units have limited slots, but lower level units can fit in those higher slots. Stamina also lets you drain a strong unit with peons.
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Dec 23, 2012 22:21
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victrix posted:Doesn't work that way in this game, higher level units have limited slots, but lower level units can fit in those higher slots. Right, but is there any advantage in not bringing any higher level units when you can afford to/have the available slots? In HoMM there often is, depending on the exact numbers. Edit: And furthermore, having stacking allows you to have units several orders of magnitude more powerful than others. A dragon should be able to wipe out a horde of peasants. I hate the word epic, but having things like that really gives your fantasy game that epic feel. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 22:23
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I feel both are valid and enjoyable mechanics, but lead to very different game styles: I think in HoMM what made you win battles was logistics first, tactics second. Since you could keep piling units into stacks, careful planning of building purchase timing and reinforcement routes had you going into fights with simply much more stuff than your enemy. Battle tactics counted too, but making the first round shot with 1.000 crossbows instead of 500 counted more, since that meant you received much less damage from the now crippled enemy stacks. Here logistics are important too, but you can cap your army, and provided you're roughly on the same tier level as your opponent, now how you move things on the battlefield is what tends to decide the fight. The units having multiple skills and options themselves add to that fact, too. This one I think falls apart if the AI is just bad (see Fallen Enchantress), but so far in this game I haven't seen the AI make tactical battle moves I wouldn't have done myself.
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Dec 23, 2012 22:33
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Irae posted:I feel both are valid and enjoyable mechanics, but lead to very different game styles: I think in HoMM what made you win battles was logistics first, tactics second. I see your point, but I just find that your description of the HoMM style is a more complete strategic gaming experience, whereas games with single unit stacks are simply too focused on tactics. Although I would disagree with your assertion that with HoMM its logistics first, tactics second. Its more of a 50/50 split. Logistics is extremely important and decides high-level games when both players are equally skilled in tactics. However, a player who is more skilled in battle-tactics will still beat a less savvy player most times even if his army is outnumbered. I guess its just a matter of wanting different things from a game. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 22:39
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So, this game is running like total poo poo, as in the sound is distorted, and it is moving at a snails pace. Is there something I am missing here? Looks like it just doesn't play nice with windows 7. Here is a How to Fix guide. Underwhelmed fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 01:18
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