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Giggily posted:While his wording was really sexist, he does mention that it was done as a response to focus testing, not necessarily his own tastes. I'm sure it's valuable for the user interface and such, but focus testing for narrative, story, and character design stuff strikes me as the best possible way to get lovely, cliched pablum. quote:After extensively focus testing Moby Dick with our target audience we decided to make Captain Ahab a rugged 22 year old and to introduce Esmeralda the Pirate Queen to inject some female energy and romance into the story. We also consider it a reboot, and Ahab is now pursing a giant white squid-shark hybrid, because our focus tests indicated a whale wasn't threatening enough.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:08
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Did the entire design team forget that flashbombs were a thing in Thief1/2? Getting caught meant tossing a flash and running like hell, not reloading. edit: Also, while I liked Dishonored for giving you huge amounts of combat options in case you got caught, it was, in a lot of ways, not as fun as having to constantly run from enemies better than you, and it isn't what I want to see from Thief. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 00:12
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Giggily posted:I really didn't like the combat in Thief 1 and 2. I thought it was out of place in regard to the rest of the game. This system seems significantly better - as in, completely streamlined, barely combat, the entire point of which is to allow the player to return to the stealth gameplay by avoiding confrontations with guards. Yeah, it sounds like that's exactly what they are aiming for. It could be good, but it's substantially different than the previous Thief games, where being cornered by guards lead to frantic "oh gently caress" moments and frequently death. I would argue that part of what makes Thief special is the tension and fear. It's a punishing game, and if there was going to be combat, I would prefer it had more in common with Dark Souls than Deus Ex:HR. That sort of gameplay can be frustrating (seriously, I'm surprised you don't hate Thief if you regularly got into swordfights thoughout 1 and 2) and often gets derided as bad game design, but it has it's place. Dishonoured is a good example of a game that really lacked that tension and fear of death. Fun game, but it encourages a very different playstyle.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:16
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I would give anything to see what the creators of Mirror's Edge would have done with the Thief franchise. Alas, it is not to be 
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Mar 6, 2013 00:18
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Contra Calculus posted:Okay, that's got to be a loving joke. How in the hell would you even take Hammerites out and still be able to call it the same world? There's nothing in the article (I posted in this thread) pointing out the Hammerites were taken out. Keep hope. That said, if they actually get taken down I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna buy the game.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:24
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Been waiting for this for a while. Nice to finally see something other than a logo  Fintilgin posted:I always sort of suspected the creepy Keeper girl was being set up to reject Garrett and the Keepers the way Garrett had rejected them when he was young, and become the new protagonist of Thief 4. A little cliche, but it would be a nice mirror and there could have been a few (subtle) cameos showing Garrett watching out for his erstwhile protegee. I'm actually surprised they aren't doing this because it would be the most obvious way to continue the series and have complete freedom to basically do whatever they wanted in regards to setting and character design. There would be a lot of potential for a genuinely interesting female lead that was focused on subtlety instead of tits.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:25
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SNARF SNARF SNARF posted:There's nothing in the article (I posted in this thread) pointing out the Hammerites were taken out. Keep hope. That said, if they actually get taken down I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna buy the game. Okay, good to know. I was dumb and didn't read everything.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:26
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Fruits of the sea posted:Yeah, it sounds like that's exactly what they are aiming for. It could be good, but it's substantially different than the previous Thief games, where being cornered by guards lead to frantic "oh gently caress" moments and frequently death. I would argue that part of what makes Thief special is the tension and fear. It's a punishing game, and if there was going to be combat, I would prefer it had more in common with Dark Souls than Deus Ex:HR. That sort of gameplay can be frustrating (seriously, I'm surprised you don't hate Thief if you regularly got into swordfights thoughout 1 and 2) and often gets derided as bad game design, but it has it's place. I never got into sword fights in Thief. The combat was so bad I would just load a saved game instead of even bothering with it. As awful as it might sound, I like the idea of being able to just push past a guard and go hide instead of having to participate in the god awful swordfighting of Thief 1/2. It's like they removed a mechanic of the franchise that I hated and thought was incredibly out of place and are replacing it with one that is actually much better. Fintilgin posted:I'm sure it's valuable for the user interface and such, but focus testing for narrative, story, and character design stuff strikes me as the best possible way to get lovely, cliched pablum. The fact that so much precedent is being placed on focus testing makes me a little hesitant to think that there will be awesome nonlinear levels like in Thief 1 and 2. It sounds a lot more like it'll be the open hub style system of Deux Ex and then branching routes on actual missions. Who knows, though.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:27
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Between this and the Deus Ex prequel I'm pretty sure game developers have forgotten why the gently caress we bothered to continue playing these old rear end PC games. Also whoa Garret's outfit, ain't that something huh? I'm not very excited for a Thief sequel after the last Deus Ex burned me (really towards the end and during every goddamn boss battle, writing wise the thing was a crock of poo poo and that's saying a good bit seeing the source material)- the worlds created in these old games were fun and simple, now everything's gotta be focus tested to the point of mediocrity. Garrett Master Thief looks like he's evolving to ape the Assassin's Creed guy but with more angst and less originality- which is kinda sad seeing as the AC guy was kind of a Garrett ripoff originally. I'm totally in the bandwagon with letting old games die but letting them be reborn through other protagonists. For instance, the little girl from the third Thief game would make an excellent replacement for Garret. Heck- half the game could be Garret teaching our would be protagonist how to be a real thief and even that would be more exciting than whatever weird hijinx a 70 year old aging Garret would have to offer. Massive_Idiot fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 00:33
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Am I the only one that kind of wants an open world though? I mean like Thief 3 only better than Thief 3. This game is coming out when a new generation of consoles and poo poo are coming out (I think?), so what would be wrong with a huge open world to explore like that of Skyrim? (Except with a better stealth system and a ton more buildings).Kraustofski posted:I'm totally in the bandwagon with letting old games die but letting them be reborn through other protagonists. For instance, the little girl from the third Thief game would make an excellent replacement for Garret. Heck- half the game could be Garret teaching our would be protagonist how to be a real thief and even that would be more exciting than whatever weird hijinx a 70 year old aging Garret would have to offer. But that sounds just as generic and unoriginal as what they're going with already. Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 00:35
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Contra Calculus posted:Am I the only one that kind of wants an open world though? I mean like Thief 3 only better than Thief 3. This game is coming out when a new generation of consoles and poo poo are coming out (I think?), so what would be wrong with a huge open world to explore like that of Skyrim? (Except with a better stealth system and a ton more buildings). I hate Open World games in general (aside from Far Cry 3), but I just don't see how it could even be pulled off with Thief. Just give me huge levels full of fun side-quest stuff to do.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:39
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quote:Time has moved on. Power has shifted. New greed replaces the old. Read that in the voice of Steven Russel and then tell me you honestly have high expectations for the writing. I challenge you.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:42
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I liked the concept of the City in Thief3 and wouldn't mind seeing it again if it were a much bigger, more interesting hub between interesting missions. I also greatly preferred the level design in T2, where they apparently built the locations and then designed the game stuff around that level, which I think made for a much more interesting game. It wouldn't be a thief game without that awesome voice-over narrating the prologue to each mission, though. 
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Mar 6, 2013 00:44
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Dramatika posted:I would give anything to see what the creators of Mirror's Edge would have done with the Thief franchise. Alas, it is not to be Don't worry, titles like Wet, Bratz, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry: Instincts, and Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent number among the team's prior achievements.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:44
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Thief 2 was definitely the best part of the series, I remember the level with the old lighthouse and the hidden submarine, an amazing single-player experience. By the way, is here any game out there, which has a similar game mechanism like the rope arrow? drat, how many times did I shoot on the ceilings just to find out if my rope arrow will be stuck or not. I hope the upcoming hook cannon of Thief 4 will be a worthy replacement. I really hope Eidos will not screw it up.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:46
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Rime posted:Read that in the voice of Steven Russel and then tell me you honestly have high expectations for the writing. I challenge you. After focus testing your voice, Mr. Russell, we decided to take the character in a different direction. We're looking for someone a little younger, a little more edgy. Thanks for coming in today. /executive
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Mar 6, 2013 00:52
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Fintilgin posted:After focus testing your voice, Mr. Russell, we decided to take the character in a different direction. We're looking for someone a little younger, a little more edgy. Thanks for coming in today. I imagine this is what happened with Bioshock: Infinite when he was set up to be Booker DeWitt initially. Rime posted:Read that in the voice of Steven Russel and then tell me you honestly have high expectations for the writing. I challenge you. It's not the worst writing I've ever seen, it's just kind of a needlessly long way of saying "I am vengeance, I am the night, I am Batman!" Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 00:56
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Not even twelve hours into a game announcement and some of you goony fucks are already actually saying "will not buy." The announcement has me excited. Naturally, rose-tinted goggles will come into play and that leaves me skeptical more than anything, but man, Thief and Thief 2 were anything but perfect games. It's easy to take anything in this little preview out of context and make everything look like it's going to be the worst game ever made or pretend that the game is absolutely going to poo poo all over everything I love, but trust me, goons: This is a lot more fun when you relax a little bit. I bet it'll all be okay, just like Deus Ex was. 
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Mar 6, 2013 01:33
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Contra Calculus posted:It's not the worst writing I've ever seen, it's just kind of a needlessly long way of saying "I am vengeance, I am the night, I am Batman!" I was wondering what all this reminded me of. Thanks. Jarate posted:I bet it'll all be okay, just like Deus Ex was. Looking forward to complaints about the boss fights, rampant cutscene stupidity, and an awful ending level!
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Mar 6, 2013 01:45
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Fintilgin posted:After focus testing your voice, Mr. Russell, we decided to take the character in a different direction. We're looking for someone a little younger, a little more edgy. Thanks for coming in today. Stephen Russell did/does a shocking amount of voices for the Thief/System Shock games. About half the guard voices are him. I had an old .mp3 of a bunch of his roles that I dug up a couple years ago: http://tindeck.com/listen/nwjf
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Mar 6, 2013 01:47
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As someone who adored Thief 1 and 2 (I quite liked 3 also) this whole write up makes it sound horrible. It really reads like they're making a clone to Assassins Creed/DX:HR/Dishonered and slapping Garrett in it to expand their audience. Toning down "the magic", removing Burricks, Undead/Zombies, removing the light gem ... cinematic takedowns? Have the developers ever seriously played the first two games? gently caress man those are the things that made the games so excellent. Water arrows were great, and had other uses rather than dousing lights... Undead and crab people etc helped spice up the game by forcing you to change your tactics. Removing rope arrows and replacing with "grapple points"? Sounds like we're headed to a levels-on-rails approach then the open levels that made 1 & 2 awesome. Seriously, you saw the Sherlock Holmes movie so you decided to add cinematic takedowns? You toned down movement because it looked too "feminine". Glad that Looking Glass studios is dead and not involved whatsoever with this project as the article sounds like it will share little with the first games besides the game title and the protagonists name. At least it won't wreck their reputation for making some of the greatest games ever. One drat preview and they manage to wreck any interest I had in the continuation of the series.
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Mar 6, 2013 01:48
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So this takes place in a decaying megacity ruled by an evil baron while a plague stalks the poor in grim alleyways. You are a supernaturally gifted night stalker. And then there's this... Now I see the reason for the delay! They were waiting for Dishonored to come out so they could basically take the template entirely. edit: I played the first three thief games. This game seems MUCH more in common in tone with dishonored than Thief 2.
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Mar 6, 2013 01:52
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Jarate posted:Not even twelve hours into a game announcement and some of you goony fucks are already actually saying "will not buy." Well, they have a year to convince me otherwise.  I'm willing to give a certain amount of slack for Human Revolution, but what we've heard so far isn't very encouraging, and it's totally fair to bitch about it. Thief: The Dark Project was one of those very rare games I felt moved more towards being 'art' then just being a game. The Firaxis XCOM reveal was pretty good. The had like a fifteen minute video of the leads sitting around talking about not just how much they loved the original game but WHY, and they were able to communicate quite clearly that the understood the title, and that they're hearts were in the right place, even if they did end up making some drastic changes. This was an article that said "Well we spent a few years trying to make it a third person Assassin's Creed style game, and we're totally rebooting the world and..." Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 01:53
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Contra Calculus posted:Am I the only one that kind of wants an open world though? I mean like Thief 3 only better than Thief 3. This game is coming out when a new generation of consoles and poo poo are coming out (I think?), so what would be wrong with a huge open world to explore like that of Skyrim? (Except with a better stealth system and a ton more buildings). A Thief 3 that's actually made proper with a large open world or with even just with actually large interconnected levels would be amazing. I can't see how this could be bad unless the developers are functionally retarded and are run by a pack of chimps throwing their own poo poo at computer monitors. Like, Deus Ex is sort of nebulous, so it's possible to gently caress some stuff up. Thief, however, I can't see how you can gently caress it up. Even Thief 3, which had it's problems (smaller levels, among other things) was still a good game. Quit taffin me guys.
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Mar 6, 2013 01:58
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XavierGenisi posted:I can't see how this could be bad unless the developers are functionally retarded and are run by a pack of chimps throwing their own poo poo at computer monitors. You haven't played very many AAA titles this decade, have you. These people are responsible for the recent abortion of Hitman. Rime fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 01:59
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XavierGenisi posted:A Thief 3 that's actually made proper with a large open world or with even just with actually large interconnected levels would be amazing. I'd really enjoy an open world stealth game, but I don't think I'd want to see Thief go down that route. The big well designed levels, and strong story would suffer a lot think. The city itself would probably be cool, but how many manor houses and interesting INSIDE locations could they really do in a big world? It would, by necessity, be a very different game with a very different focus, and I really enjoyed the design of Thief as is. I did always think it would be fun to see an action RPG set in the Thief universe. Like Deus Ex or something, but at the start of the game you can choose to be a Hammerite (melee), Keeper (stealth), or Pagan (magic). You'd have different openings, like Dragon Age: Orgins, and... and... and...
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Mar 6, 2013 02:04
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Rime posted:You haven't played very many AAA titles this decade, have you. What a clever and cutting comment about the games industry, boy howdy. *slaps knee*
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Mar 6, 2013 02:05
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Jarate posted:Not even twelve hours into a game announcement and some of you goony fucks are already actually saying "will not buy." Hey now, I only said I wasn't going to pay full price for it  It looks like it will actually be very similiar to Deus Ex:HR. That's cool, but the gameplay will be fundamentally different from the previous games. Why does a game called Thief have an emphasis on combat and empowering the player while the original games were all about sneaking and tension. Not the worst game ever, just not... Thief. Being able to pick and choose from combat-stealth games is pretty awesome though. We've come a long way from having to choose between Splinter Cell and uh, Splinter Cell.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:06
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What the gently caress is up with those Zelda games. I mean, you don't even control Zelda, what is this poo poo.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:08
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the black husserl posted:Now I see the reason for the delay! They were waiting for Dishonored to come out so they could basically take the template entirely. Literally one screenshot looks vaguely similar to a locale in Dishonored, therefore it is stealing from Dishonored guys! Just like Dishonored stole from Half-Life 2 and Bioshock because it also had vaguely similar technology, art style, and locales!
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Mar 6, 2013 02:08
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Fintilgin posted:I did always think it would be fun to see an action RPG set in the Thief universe. Like Deus Ex or something, but at the start of the game you can choose to be a Hammerite (melee), Keeper (stealth), or Pagan (magic). You'd have different openings, like Dragon Age: Orgins, and... and... and... You'd actually probably like Geneforge series a lot despite the graphics and layout being very basic. The writing and freedom of choice is actually really cool.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:08
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Neo Rasa posted:You'd actually probably like Geneforge series a lot despite the graphics and layout being very basic. The writing and freedom of choice is actually really cool. I own the first three, I think. I need to give them another go, started the first one and it didn't pull me in. It's on my extended 'try again/play for the first time' list. (My unplayed Steam game list frightens me.)
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Mar 6, 2013 02:12
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the black husserl posted:So this takes place in a decaying megacity ruled by an evil baron while a plague stalks the poor in grim alleyways. You are a supernaturally gifted night stalker. And then there's this... If you actually look at any of the other screenshots/concept art, then you would notice that the only artistically Victorian era things in the game are the character costumes, which I think are actually done very well. If you look at the screenshots of the guards they still have their old Thief-ish appearance, but their outfits look more like medieval armor as seen through the lens of the Victorian era than anything. The architecture is very, very Gothic from what I've seen. The wooden structures appear to be properly pre-Renaissance as well, while containing elements of the industrial revolution (the giant billboards on top of random buildings really stick out to me). I think the art direction actually looks really, really good. Also, the plague was a pretty big part of the original Thief games, wasn't it? If I'm remembering Thief 1 correctly there was a part of the city that was basically completely abandoned because of the super awful magic plague or whatever that broke out there, so the remake isn't exactly sailing in uncharted waters with that.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:15
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Giggily posted:Also, the plague was a pretty big part of the original Thief games, wasn't it? If I'm remembering Thief 1 correctly there was a part of the city that was basically completely abandoned because of the super awful magic plague or whatever that broke out there, so the remake isn't exactly sailing in uncharted waters with that. The Old Quarter was walled off because of a zombie plague actually, because of the Eye in the Hammerite Cathedral.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:20
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edit: ^^ Wasn't the whole reason zombies existed in the first place due to some mysterious plague?Giggily posted:Also, the plague was a pretty big part of the original Thief games, wasn't it? If I'm remembering Thief 1 correctly there was a part of the city that was basically completely abandoned because of the super awful magic plague or whatever that broke out there, so the remake isn't exactly sailing in uncharted waters with that. It was. Also, the corrupt, power-hungry Baron, although a small part of the world, still existed in the Thief world long before Dishonored came out so that's at least in line with the lore.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:22
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Contra Calculus posted:edit: ^^ Wasn't the whole reason zombies existed in the first place due to some mysterious plague? True, though the Baron had been engaged in warfare abroad for literally decades, which is what allowed for the multiple factions to gain so much power in the city as well as the rampant corruption in the city watch. He was never expressly described as evil or power hungry, he simply existed as an abstract concept in the power structure. IIRC there's a journal in TMA speculating if he's even alive.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:26
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Yeah, he was at war with the City of Blackbrook and I have to wonder if this will play into the new game somehow. That might be kind of interesting if it does.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:27
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Contra Calculus posted:edit: ^^ Wasn't the whole reason zombies existed in the first place due to some mysterious plague? Zombies aren't Romero zombies where its a disease, they're the risen undead from graves. Haunts are undead Hammerites.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:28
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Dramatika posted:I would give anything to see what the creators of Mirror's Edge would have done with the Thief franchise. Alas, it is not to be The original long dead concept for Thief 4 was set in the modern world, with the main character being an urban thief. It looked loving awesome - a version of the City with Skyscrapers and roof-top parkour.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:33
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Giggily posted:If you actually look at any of the other screenshots/concept art, then you would notice that the only artistically Victorian era things in the game are the character costumes, which I think are actually done very well. If you look at the screenshots of the guards they still have their old Thief-ish appearance, but their outfits look more like medieval armor as seen through the lens of the Victorian era than anything. The architecture is very, very Gothic from what I've seen. The wooden structures appear to be properly pre-Renaissance as well, while containing elements of the industrial revolution (the giant billboards on top of random buildings really stick out to me). I think the art direction actually looks really, really good. Ugh. It just struck me they probably dumped the art deco stylings so as not to seem derivative of Bioshock.
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Mar 6, 2013 02:34
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