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unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Farecoal posted:

Paradox games mods on Nexus

Finally, the superiority of the Serbian penis can now be accurately represented.

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binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010


Gorgo Primus posted:

Padre Groggo... nooooo!

Even with seeing this coming from the very first Dev Diaries, it still sucks knowing I'll never be able to experience the joy of EvW's bizarre WW3 simulator for myself.

Edit: Also I've updated the OP accordingly. Let me know if anyone has any other ideas for the new Scrap Book of Fond Memories!

Put the Lowtax entry, it was drat funny.

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010



Of course its a Matrix Game.

(At £60)

logger
Jun 28, 2008

...and in what manner the Ancyent Marinere came back to his own Country.

Soiled Meat

I was just reading the Paradox Forum about the cancellation and I ran into this post by a beta tester

quote:

Depends on your definition of bare bones. Espionage, diplomacy, economics, politics, research, war, building ships might be classified as bare bones I guess.

It's been in development for three years and people wonder why it got cancelled.

Gorgo Primus
Mar 29, 2009

We shall forge the most progressive republic ever known to man!


SeaTard posted:

Put the Lowtax entry, it was drat funny.

Got a link? I don't remember that one.

Also for those who want to know the final thing submitted and accepted by EvW by Pattersong and I on the subject of Groggo, here is his stat block and the exact wording that you'd see on the pop up event on Groggo taking power.


Country: Spain
Leader: "Padre" Benjamín de las Casas de Groggo
Ideology: Maoist
Trait: Religious
Start Date: 1945.8.15
End Date: 1990.2.26
Picture:


Oh poo poo, Groggo Took Power For Some Reason! posted:

"Padre" Benjamín de las Casas de Groggo was raised for the cloth until a chance trip to Spanish Morocco exposed him to the suffering of the world's colonial underclass. They say a touch of Moorish blood flowed in the Padre’s blood, leading to his greater-than-usual sympathy for the oppressed in Morocco. During his combat on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War, Groggo swiftly adapted the Biblical tales of his youth to the radical ideology of his fellow soldiers. After the war he had a prolonged stay in exile in Veracruz where he wrote his famous treatise "just as you did it to one of the least of these," making a case that the Franco dictatorship was morally bankrupt according to Christian theology despite the Franco regime's endorsement by the Roman Catholic Church.

After Padre Groggo’s return following the sudden overthrow of Franco, he was hailed as the inspiration for the young movement that had been inspired by the sermons he had written that had circulated in secret through the households of Spain. Opposing the reconciliationist rhetoric of the liberals, he stood both against a Bourbon restoration and against the corrupt clergy that had propped up the Franco regime all those long years, and issued a famous call that the clergy must now live by the vows of poverty they claim. Overwhelmingly proclaimed the new President of Spain, Groggo swiftly took action to confiscate all clerical land in Spain and distributed the proceeds among the orphaned children of the Franco regime’s victims, earning him great popularity. When the corrupt Estado Novo regime toppled in neighboring Portugal, the cry among the people was “Unification,” a demand for Groggo’s enlightened anti-clerical rule to be extended to their country. The People’s Democratic Commonwealth of Iberia forced its clerics to take an oath of loyalty to the state over the Church, prompting great consternation in Rome. In tribute to his Moroccan brethren, Groggo ceded Tangiers and Spain's other North African holdings to Morocco. As Groggo improves the condition of the poor of the Iberian peninsula through confiscation of the Church’s vast estates and rallies the peasantry to defend his new state with the rallying cry “masses over Masses,” concern over the popular leader has raised in both Washington and Moscow as Groggo has proclaimed Iberia a neutral power in the ongoing Cold War.

Upon the Padre's victory, he commissioned a monument of victory in Madrid. Styled after a medieval Spanish cathedral, Groggo used it as a holy memorial to the oppressed peoples of the world. Its unique hexagonal shape calls attention to its revolutionary new function. The Cathedral of The Free People of Tomorrow's street entrance leads into the famed Moorish Hall in honor of the Moroccans who were the first people Groggo had freed. At the other vertices are the Breton Hall, the Quebecois Hall, the Cretan Hall, the Korean Reunification Hall, and the Tibetan Hall, all ending in the central Chapel of Nations, the main prayer room, where revolutionaries from all over the world have gone to be rebaptized in the Baptismal Fount of People's Revolution. In the Cathedral of the Free People of Tomorrow, tomorrow's revolutionary struggle is preached today.

Yeah... we don't know how this got accepted as a serious entry, won, and got implemented(?) either.

Gorgo Primus fucked around with this message at Mar 7, 2014 around 03:18

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

nutranurse posted:

Sometimes I fool myself into thinking I'm kind of grognardy but then I see videos/videogames like this; I'm so loving far from being a grognard I might as well be playing call of duty.

CMANO is actually rather easy to play, the interface looks intimidating since it's so bare bones but it's pretty well designed by wargame standards and it's easy to navigate/play the game. It's also pretty fun.

SkySteak posted:

Of course its a Matrix Game.

(At £60)

It's also not worth the $80 they charge for it!

DrProsek
Mar 8, 2011

Every day I'm drinking


DStecks posted:

I'd just like to re-iterate that we had precisely this discussion about a month ago, and I'll say the same thing I said then: if you're really simulating brinkmanship, than the actors involved never consciously make the decision to "press the button", it's something that just happens, because a situation has gotten out of control. It's a psychological phenomenon called the Hobbesian Trap.

The player wouldn't be given a big red button to push, nuclear war would be the result of pushing a crisis too hard.

This is probably the best way to implement "nukes = game over", and it would probably be a pretty good system as well, but it still has the issue that in brinksmanship, all parties involved are willing to use the bomb if push comes to shove. The AI of course can simply be programmed to assume the player will use the bomb even if in reality the player is prepared to cave if it seems like nuclear war is inevitable/very likely, but without nuclear war actually being possible it loses that element where the player's side of the conflict might actually walk into negotiations fully willing to let it come to nuclear war if they don't get what they want.

On the other hand though, if nuclear war is 'winnable', it creates another problem where the player might treat it too much like EUIV or something and gladly go to nuclear war and reduce parts of their own nation to nuclear wastelands because they know the game goes until 1991 and they can easily carve out the good parts of the USA/USSR for themselves as a replacement for their own losses. Simulating brinkmanship also suffers when one of the two parties is a sociopath willing to go to war the second their civilian population is high/dispersed enough so that they would still remain a great power after nuclear war.

dublish
Oct 31, 2011


On the Paradox forums a few days ago, somebody started a thread asking for a HoI4-EvW save converter. The thread's gone in a predictable direction since the cancellation announcement, but somebody seems to have a sense of humor.

quote:

For decades gamers have been anticipating a true late 20th-century strait blockade simulator. The thrill of closing off the critical maritime passage between South Island and Stewart Island, forcing NATO convoys in the far south pacific literally miles out of their way and cutting the flow of supplies to the dozens-strong New Zealand Territorial Force garrison there.

Support the revolt, guys. Don't pay paradox 13.99 for some ripoff HoI4 strait DLC.

Rogue0071
Dec 8, 2009

Grey Hunter's next target.

As for the "revolt" mentioned: the OP of that thread is a frequent poster in the closure thread, and has been advocating a campaign whereby Paradox forums posters will change their avatars to the red/black rebel flag to indicate they will boycott HOI4, which will force PI to release EvW after all.

Gorgo Primus posted:

Yeah... we don't know how this got accepted as a serious entry, won, and got implemented(?) either.

Helping draft this was more fun than EvW would ever have been.

Rogue0071 fucked around with this message at Mar 7, 2014 around 05:22

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Horned hellgod from another dimension and also trans


DrProsek posted:

On the other hand though, if nuclear war is 'winnable', it creates another problem where the player might treat it too much like EUIV or something and gladly go to nuclear war and reduce parts of their own nation to nuclear wastelands because they know the game goes until 1991 and they can easily carve out the good parts of the USA/USSR for themselves as a replacement for their own losses. Simulating brinkmanship also suffers when one of the two parties is a sociopath willing to go to war the second their civilian population is high/dispersed enough so that they would still remain a great power after nuclear war.

Eh, that was literally Mao's planned strategy, which is one of the reasons he encouraged such enormous population growth in China when he was the big dog there. I believe the quote is something along the lines of "After World War III millions of Chinese will face hundreds of Americans and Russians".

I've spoken in this thread before that I think nuclear war should absolutely not be a game over. If the consequences are that catastrophic then the player might just quit anyway and welp then they lost. I don't think it would be good design to punish players for a core aspect of the whole shebang. Yes, IRL the Cold War stayed cold, but that was a near thing more than once. To say that a Cold War game shouldn't have a Hot War aspect is nonsensical. At the heart of it I believe that a risk of serious in-game consequences would be good game design, but the risk of simply ending your game would be very poor game design that would not encourage the sort of gameplay that the Cold War would require, i.e. brinkmanship. It's punishing the player for going along a course which is, given the setting, a perfectly plausible one.

Perhaps most strikingly in my eyes, Paradox games are about possibilities. In real life it was extremely unlikely that the Nazis would beat the Soviets in Barbarossa, but nobody is calling for a game to end because it's possible to do it in DH. I appreciate that it may be more striking due to the consequences of nuclear war, but there have been some good ideas in this thread bounced around about how to model that in a reasonable fashion. In addition, I think it was DrSunshine who pointed out that there are plenty of possibilities between all-out global Armageddon and no nuclear war at all. It would have been entirely viable for the USA to launch a pretty huge nuclear strike on the Soviet Union for several years without serious risk of retaliation. Using nukes in Korea or Vietnam would have opened up a can of worms, but would Moscow have risked its own hide when the Americans just showed they were perfectly willing to strike first? What if a single nuke was used by a rogue element; how do you respond to that? This isn't to say the game could necessarily address all possibilities well (though one would hope ) but it seems to me that there are a huge number of ways nuclear weapons could come into play which are simply out of the window if you make their use a game over.

And fundamentally I'm playing a videogame. I don't particularly play videogames to be browbeaten with the "Nukes are terrible weapons" stick. I also don't particularly regard World War 2 as all that great an event in real life, but I've conquered the world as the Nazis.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

THE CENTRIST DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON


Just go play Defcon.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


SeaTard posted:

Put the Lowtax entry, it was drat funny.
The Lowtax entry is what lead to the cancellation of the game, an inevitable result of it becoming a pseudo-goon project.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012

REPORT QUICKLY
IF YOU SEE
TRUFFULA HORDING
TO THE NKVD


"Don't play as a state, play as a political party" would be one way to solve the 'what if people are sociopaths contents with nuclear war as long as they've got enough spare population to still be a world power' problem but it'd probably be mutually exclusive with the whole world being playable. The united states/russia might survive but whatever faction brought the world into nuclear war would have a hard time not getting kicked out of power.

EDIT: THOUGH a game that STARTED OUT with only Political Factions in the united states and USSR playable but the rest of the world eventually opened up with DLC wouldn't be entirely disagreeable.

Chuck Buried Treasure
Dec 27, 2010



Honestly, if they were so intent on making a WW3-in-Cold-War-times simulator, they should have just called it Red Storm Rising: The Game and hoped that the lawyers working for Tom Clancy's estate wouldn't hear about it.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Horned hellgod from another dimension and also trans


Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Just go play Defcon.

Well yeah, Defcon's the best nuclear war game ever made, but you don't get to rebuild afterwards.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010


Gorgo Primus posted:

Got a link? I don't remember that one.


I think it was about 20 pages back, but I can't find it. No more than 3 weeks ago.

DrProsek
Mar 8, 2011

Every day I'm drinking


SeaTard posted:

I think it was about 20 pages back, but I can't find it. No more than 3 weeks ago.

Found it:

Dibujante posted:

Partway through this, I realized it was probably not a good idea, but here it is anyways:
code:
Country: Quebec
Name: Richard Lótàques
Ideology: Fascist
Trait: Controversial Leader
Start Date: March 3rd, 1967
End Date: End of game
Photo


Richard Lótàques, believed to be born sometime in 1942, grew up rough. His exact parentage is unknown; he first appears in the historical record in a misdemeanor conviction for defacing a public forum in Montreal with graffiti. His name may be a pseudonym. Sentenced to several years in a juvenile rehabilitation facility, Richard Lótàques reformed and went to film school, where he won great acclaim with his 1962 semi-biographical film, Maison de Malheur, which explored his experiences in juvenile rehabilitation. However, that seemed to be his only success. Falling on hard times and increasingly frustrated by his inability to pursue a career in film, he eventually joined the far-right "Guérilas Organisés pour l'Ordre et l'Honneur National" (GOOHN), dedicated to an independent future for Quebec, free from the Federal Canadian jackboot. Ruthless and cunning, he will stop at nothing to ensure that Quebec takes its place as North America's pre-eminent power.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

gradenko_2000 posted:

Wiz made an application that can automatically generate a bunch of random leaders for a country (that I can't find right now unfortunately), which was honestly my biggest issue with MOTE, but apart from that it's a pretty solid game on its own.

DrProsek posted:

Ooh, if anyone has a link to that handy that would be wonderful; I played the game once as Egypt on a friend's account and it was fun but it felt so stupid I couldn't get more than like 3 generals the whole game. The game is pretty solid on it's own; I was looking for mods that add stuff like nations that have unique cultures but no cores into the game, unification decisions, and just in general more decisions and events. Then again, that stuff is simple enough that I could probably mod it all in pretty easily. I think I'll keep an eye out for a MOTE sale during the next round of sales .

Yeah, I made a leader generator called EagleMaker for generating leaders for AzeriMOTE. I'll upload it when I get home tonight.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Johan, please tell whoever's in charge of your forums to keep the East vs. West one open until for a while longer, I'm choking on the schadenfreude here. They're really convinced this rebellion flag thing is going to get the game released.

sane person responding to red flag people posted:

Riiiiight. So the Paradox CEO is seriously going to release a game in an unfinished state (something PDS have taken massive stick for in the past) just because a handful of people have new avatars? Are you for real?

Here's an idea: go start your own Game Dev company and make this game. Although I'm obviously being flippant here, this is still actually a more realistic option than the nonsense being thrown around here.



Dude, be realistic. Paradox have cancelled this game fully now. This tells you that the game was never going to see the light of day in properly playable form. They're not going to go back on this decision because it clearly wasn't taken lightly, especially after all the chances they'd given the devs to get it finished.

dude with red flag av posted:

You could take that position OR you could join us

Also one guy seems to think the Ukrainian crisis is the reason the game was cancelled. Seems logical- that was why Red Dawn bombed and there's been a dearth of social collapse and other apocalyptic stuff since the financial crisis.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


Kavak posted:

Also one guy seems to think the Ukrainian crisis is the reason the game was cancelled.
In his defense, that's hardly the biggest conspiracy theory surrounding the Ukrainian crisis.























It is probably the dumbest though.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Littlefinger posted:

Umm, what? That just doesn't make any sense.

Besides, comparing some volcano going off to a bunch of metropolitan areas in half a dozen countries suddenly turning into soot and shooting into the atmosphere seems a bit of a stretch.

A potential supervolcano eruption isn't just "some volcano going off" and is fairly comparable to having a bunch of cities vapourised. Such an event would be to the order of tens to thousands (depending on severity) of times larger than the 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora which caused significant global cooling and crop failures.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

It's disappointing that all the licensed Paradox projects went so poorly, besides DH which sounds like it lost money. PDS seems to be adding features requested by CK2 and EU4 modders, which is some consolation. Honestly most of the interesting fan projects have been mods for Europa/Clausewitz games, and not usually total conversions.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Hearts of Iron IV's Second Dev Diary is out. TL;DR: You build production lines of specific vehicle models and your divisions and wings draw from that pool. Upgrading is a gradual process, but old vehicles can be reused or traded. Divisions are built on the battalion level . Something something chassis research.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012



Kavak posted:

Divisions are built on the battalion level



I hope they implement the ability to repurpose conquered nations' equipment, like Germany taking over the Panzer 38(t) from the Czechs.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


I won't mind making divisions at the battalion level as long as it's easy to replicate those changes at the army level. If I want to - for example - add an artillery battalion to every infantry division in the Wehrmacht, I should be able to do that with just a dozen clicks or so, rather than a dozen clicks for each of my 200 infantry divisions.

I am looking forward to equipment being a bigger deal. It's a lot more interesting to say, "Oh poo poo, they have Tigers/IS-2s/Churchills" than "Oh look, some heavy tanks". Plus it puts a lot more character into the different sides when you're unlocking their actual planes and tanks with their actual strengths and weaknesses, so you might need to deal with the glacial speed of the Churchill or notorious unreliability of later German tanks.

podcat
Jun 21, 2012



Kavak posted:

Divisions are built on the battalion level .

Divisions are designed on battalion level, not built on battalion level. There is a big difference in micro effort

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


podcat posted:

Divisions are designed on battalion level, not built on battalion level. There is a big difference in micro effort

What are the differences between choosing brigades for your divisions in HoI 3 and choosing battalions here?

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012



Kavak posted:

What are the differences between choosing brigades for your divisions in HoI 3 and choosing battalions here?

I'd assume podcat means that you have a single screen where you decide what batallions make up a given type of division, and that change is automatically applied to all relevant division types.

Meanwhile in the thread, someone's already sperging out.

quote:

The tech tree looks very simplistic, like for a console game.
...
PzKpf III should have at least 4 variants. 3.7cm, 5cm L/42, 5cm L/60 and finally when the PzKpfw IV from Ausf F2 is in production the option to equip the Pzkpfw III with the 7.5cm L/24.

maev
Dec 6, 2010
Economically illiterate Tory Boy Bollocks brain.
Keep away from children


That poo poo looks like a World of Tanks techtree and I can only say this is a good thing. Let's not pretend a big part of WW2 interest isn't the Cool Toys, making them more tangible like this and customizing your own divisions as part of it is a really smart move by Paradox.

(Please don't ask Wargaming for any advice though)

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010


maev posted:



(Please don't ask Wargaming for any advice though)

I can't wait to fight Waffentigers at the siege of Berlin.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012



Darkrenown confirmed that one of the possible variants you can make with a given chassis is self-propelled rocket artillery. Can't wait to roll out my Tigerwerfers to storm Washington

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider



Kavak posted:

specific vehicle models

Kavak posted:

old vehicles can be reused or traded

Kavak posted:

Divisions are built on the battalion level



Oh god oh jeez oh god, I don't know if I have enough grogsperg in me to handle this. I think I am officially out of my depth.

BBJoey posted:

Meanwhile in the thread, someone's already sperging out.

podcat posted:

I'm sorry. We will try to create messier, hard to understand interfaces in the future instead

podcat

e X
Feb 23, 2013

cool but crude


I know the chances for that are pretty much none-existent, but what I would really like would be a game similar to Victoria, that covers the 20th and maybe 21st century.

What I always disliked about HoI is that, unlike Paradox other major title, it is really not about playing in a certain epoch throughout human history and basically just another WWII game. While the focus is definitely on Europe in EU and CK, you can still have a lot of fun playing another, minor nation. With HoI, you really doesn't have anything to do unless you play a nation that played historically a role in the war.

e X fucked around with this message at Mar 7, 2014 around 12:42

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

BORN TO COUP
GUIADO IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2019
I am empanada man
410,757,864,530 DEAD EXPATS





Lipstick Apathy

Easily the best part of the dev diary:

quote:

You will now see results like "10 heavy tanks destroyed" rather than some abstracted strength percentage.

Casualties

Also:

quote:

quote:

The tech tree for armour looks about as interesting as the instructions for cooking a tin of soup, I presume there is more to this.
Release version will have more lens flare.

Darkrenown

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

It's very much giving off a vibe of 'this is what we wanted HOI3 to be about but we flubbed the mechanics, here's the second pass at the concept'.

Which is good.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


For once, I think the Paradox forum has a good idea about the interface. The tank types really should go, from left to right, Light -> Medium -> MBT -> Heavy -> Super Heavy.

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



I like that we can now truly recreate idiotic German equipment decisions. All production lines to Maus.

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

gradenko_2000 posted:



Also:

quote:

Release version will have more lens flare.

Darkrenown

He replied with:

A victory all round, I think.

BBJoey posted:

Darkrenown confirmed that one of the possible variants you can make with a given chassis is self-propelled rocket artillery. Can't wait to roll out my Tigerwerfers to storm Washington


Best tank.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

For once, I think the Paradox forum has a good idea about the interface. The tank types really should go, from left to right, Light -> Medium -> MBT -> Heavy -> Super Heavy.

I agreed, Podcat thinks it's crazy. I might switch it and see if it wins him over.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010


I am unreasonably excited about Battalion level customization in a Grand Strategy game that pits armies of millions against each other. I sounds like it would tickle the inner OoB sperg in me. Only one mechanized Battalion per Panzergrenadierregiment!!

What about ships, though? Will there be a production line that pumps out Iowas?

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

BORN TO COUP
GUIADO IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2019
I am empanada man
410,757,864,530 DEAD EXPATS





Lipstick Apathy

VostokProgram posted:

I like that we can now truly recreate idiotic German equipment decisions. All production lines to Maus.

I just hope that the swapping-models-midstream gimmick doesn't cause too many problems. One of War in the East's biggest remaining flaws is that whatever code they're using for distributing reinforcements/replacements just cannot handle the kitbashed TOEs of German divisions when combined with the dozens of different AFV models and the drat thing tends to poo poo itself in 1943 onwards with unassigned tanks building up in the production pools like so much cordwood.

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