Paradox Grand Strategy: From the Carnival of Lust to the Enlightened Times

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Paradox Grand Strategy: From the Carnival of Lust to the Enlightened Times

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

I wouldn't mind if the second-level allies could be called but only fight in defense of their actual allies' territory so they can't get improbably roped into the initial aggression. But that raises some questions about how strictly you define that (must the fighting take place within the ally's borders?) and might be too nuanced for the AI to handle.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2013 16:36

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 15:36

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Friend Commuter posted:

And even if that did work perfectly, it'd still make it impossible to conquer an OPM if France is a friend of a friend.

I was thinking like: You go to war with an OPM. OPM calls in their ally, Holland, who becomes a full-fledged belligerent -- defends the OPM, fights your armies wherever, even launching counterattacks on your soil. Holland can then call in their ally, France, who is not allied with the OPM. In that case, France can only serve to defend against attacks you make on Holland; their interest is limited to preventing you from overrunning Holland. So France could be a problem, but they might not directly stand in the way of your original aims against the OPM because they don't really give a poo poo.

Now how you define "defense of Holland" is tricky -- only battles within Dutch territory? Or can French armies join any battle Holland is participating in, wherever that happens? With a simple rule there's still lots of potential for undesirably dumb behavior. I'm envisioning lots of pingponging as the status of whether France is eligible to join a particular battle flips back and forth, and if the AI is unable to determine that before a battle between you and Holland begins, taking travel time into account, their help would likely be even more useless than it already is. So I doubt this could ever get implemented in a good way, but the general idea of more clearly defined, rational limits on the extent of each nation's participation might be worth some thought.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2013 18:59

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Preorder March of the Eagles at Gamersgate, get a free copy of Sengoku... hooray?

# ¿ Feb 12, 2013 03:45

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Project1 posted:

What's CK2 like for complexity? I don't have time to learn complex games, so CK1 and HoI2 are the only ones I've played that don't boggle my tiny brain (out of, I think, Rome, EU2+3, Victoria 2).

CK2 is by far the best Paradox has ever done in this regard. It'll still take a while to fully grasp the implications of the laws and logic governing titles and inheritance but it's universally regarded as their best-executed and most accessible title with good reason. Kersch's legendary LP is also the most helpful instructional resource that's ever existed for a Paradox game.

On that note, I've seen it asked a few times since the recent Amazon sale without much in the way of answers but I'll give it another shot: how are you supposed to learn to play V2? Any LPs that might not be on the level of the aforementioned but worth a look? I really need to see someone put it all in action as opposed to a list of tips and principles.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2013 04:55

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

JGBeagle posted:

So I just bought Victoria II and Hearts of Iron III, any place for me to get a tutorial like those LPs for CK2 and EUIII?

Also, should I buy A House Divided or should I wait for it to go on sale?

Don't know about HoI3 but people ask about a Vicky 2 LP all the time and I've never seen an answer. When Heart of Darkness drops that might kindle some interest. Maybe some of us could chip in a few bucks to buy the expansion as an incentive for someone who'd make a good faith effort to do an instructional LP.

Also, just picked up Darkest Hour, same question -- good beginner's guide? I assume with Kaiserreich since everyone says that's the way to play.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2013 04:15

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

That's awesome, makes me want to actually learn V2. One thing, the western portion of the Cherokee nation is Oklahoma, not Ohio.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2013 13:35

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

nutranurse posted:

If anyone (like me) was looking for a tutorial AAR/LP to help get themselves acquainted with Victoria 2's rather byzantine complexity, I found one on the Paradox forums. It's for AHD, so it is a little bit dated, but it does get you through the basics very well!

Huge thanks -- since I don't understand the game I have no idea if this guy's advice is correct but just glancing at it, this is exactly the kind of explanation of the basic concepts and interface I needed. Long as it's not grossly inacccurate this might be worth linking in the OP since it gets requested every page, at least until someone does a goon aHoD tutorial.

Paradox guys this got me curious about your philosophies toward tutorials and such. The complexity of your games is a lot of what makes them great and no one wants to see them dumbed down, but it's also a big barrier to entry. Personally I bought EU3 (not-)Complete blind but would've never really touched it -- or given you money again -- until I found Kersch's LP. That's what sold me on Divine Wind; same goes for CK2 and all its expansions. Even if the above helps me with V2, it'll be much easier to talk myself into buying aHoD once there's a similar guide for it. This kind of learning resource genuinely does drive sales, and I wonder if you might benefit from actually putting some in-house resources into that kind of thing.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2013 17:48

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

V2 AHD: What are these little marks on the warscore display that I've circled? My guess would be targets for war goals but I can't get a tooltip or something to explain.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2013 23:25

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Thanks. I'm also curious about adding a war goal of my own -- I'm Sweden in 1841, allied with Prussia and thought maybe I could piggyback on what's been successful so far to snag some of Finland from enemy Russia. But that's greyed out with "the war is not going well enough". How does that work; could I realistically accomplish anything? Obviously Russia is far superior but I've done fine against the meager force they've sent my way so far. (Again, vanilla AHD, not HoD.)

# ¿ Apr 23, 2013 23:41

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

OK, makes sense. Moot cause the war ended like a month later, Prussia having reached its target to liberate... something I don't even remember. Whatever, I'm sure it was a good cause my Swedes died for.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2013 23:50

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

NEED TOILET PAPER posted:

I've never really gotten into CK2 but right now I'm trying to give it another chance and I want to know: are there any negative repercussions for sending multiple kids to be educated by one person? Seems my current ruler's been pretty busy in the bedroom and now has a ton of rugrats that need some book-learnin' but both his wife and his heir's wife are pretty much amazing at everything so I've been sending the kids to be educated by them.

Nothing specific but you get an opinion boost from each person to whom you entrust a child, and it doesn't stack with multiple wards sent to the same person. It's not huge (+10 I think) but it's a way to get some use out of kids who'll never succeed.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2013 05:17

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Ugh I got halfway through my first Sweden game and just now figured out 1) that the +/- 200 relations scale, 0-100 influence scale and friendly/cordial/neutral opinion scale are three different but related things and 2) how to use priority to actually gain influence where you want in a reasonable amount of time. Now that makes me want to start a new game. I suppose that's an excuse to buy HoD.

The economy is still inscrutable -- I don't suppose there's some key piece of knowledge to make sense of it like the above does for diplomacy? I understand the basics of industrializing and achieved more-or-less solvency in the grand scheme of things, but still faced pretty big fluctuations from day to day and month to month and I feel like there's simultaneously too much and not enough information to figure out why.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2013 06:28

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

DrPop posted:

Hey fellas, is there a good Kersch Ireland CK2-style LP for me to get the ropes of V2 and HoD? I've always loved the HoI games and have spent tons of time on CK2, but Vicky 1 & 2 have always been kind of inaccessible to me. With HoD out now I'd really like to try to get the hang of it.

This successfully got me engaged with V2 last week. Caveats: it's good but not quite Kersch quality. It's for AHD, not HoD. And it's for Japan, which starts uncivilized so the early posts are all geared toward the Westernization process, which is irrelevant to a lot of the countries you'll want to play, significantly changed in HoD and simply not that fun (at least for my experience in AHD). I tried playing along with it and kinda lost interest when I simultaneously got hit by the UK ganking all the minor conquests I'd made and reactionaries undoing the progress I'd made toward civilizing.

That said, it absolutely bootstrapped my ability to enjoy the game like I'd never been able to before. So definitely read it, but maybe don't actually use Japan for your first game. And probably read farther than I did, cause I stopped before the LP explained some basic but non-obvious information about the influence system that I wish I'd known earlier.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2013 15:04

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Baronjutter posted:

Nice. I don't know if this is a paradox event or the NNM mod I'm using but it made me smile.

It's vanilla.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2013 00:25

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

While we eagerly await some goon LPs, this Paradox forum AAR was good enough to get me into V2 at least even though it's AHD.

# ¿ May 5, 2013 16:09

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

I think somebody asked the LP mods about a week ago and got turned down.

# ¿ May 20, 2013 16:13

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

March of the Eagles for $10 -- $8 with the GFDJUN20 code -- from Gamefly, is a Steam key.

# ¿ Jun 7, 2013 18:06

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

hypnorotic posted:

What's the consensus on March of the Eagles? I'm getting a bit tired of the HOI2 games and was looking for a change. Is it worth the $20 or should I wait for it to go on sale?

Can't speak to the game myself; word here was that it's short and stripped down to focus on war compared to Paradox's other grand strategy games but polished and well-suited for multiplayer. It is on sale at the moment, though -- only $10 for a Steam key on Gamefly, $8 if the GFDJUN20 code is still good.

brocretin posted:

Does anyone know whether EUIV will be retaining its predecessor's 'expense monthly, income annually' financial model? It's sad to say, but that's really the thing that kept me from getting into EUIII - it's a lot of extra mental math for something that really doesn't add anything to the game.

Nope, they've ditched that.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2013 02:34

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Just noticed Green Man Gaming is offering one of their own preorder bonuses on EUIV, $7 cashback or $10 GMG credit for the regular edition; $8/$12 on the Digital Extreme.

Doesn't seem like the current 20% voucher applies, though, and I can't remember if it's a blanket thing that you can never use a voucher on a cashback preorder or if some games allow it and some don't. Might wait to see if Amazon comes up with a nice deal but I don't imagine anyone else will beat this. (EUIV is Steamworks, of course.)

# ¿ Jun 25, 2013 04:04

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

canepazzo posted:

Teleglitch: Die More Edition

So... does anyone have actual thoughts about the actual game they're actually going to stream tonight?

Roguelike sci-fi top-down shooter, Win/Mac/Linux, $13. I'd never heard of it but sounds like this is an expanded edition of something that already exists (says owners will be upgraded to this new version). Could be fine, just underwhelming if we were expecting a new grand strategy IP. I see why the thread finds dinosaur politics more engaging.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2013 17:25

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Baloogan posted:

So what is in EU4? Why should I buy it?

Big mechanical stuff off the top of my head is:

Almost everything you do, from improving technology to changing policies to acquiring cores, requires you to expend power that your monarch slowly accrues, meaning you have to make tough choices between such actions.
National ideas work differently, in a manner some liken to Civ V's social policy trees. A large number of the most important/interesting nations have sets wholly unique to each representing their historical strengths, with lesser nations sharing idea sets common among their region or culture.
Trade has been completely reworked to emphasize money actually moving across the map; territory and naval power now play much larger roles in getting your slice of the pie.
Finances have been consolidated so you no longer have the monthly expenses vs. annual income hassle.

The interface also looks much more clean and straightforward in the screen shots we've seen. I forget from the dev diaries -- has much been said about the mechanics of the HRE or Papacy or such supranational concerns?

# ¿ Jun 28, 2013 02:34

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

uPen posted:

Sounds neat, I'd probably drop 50 cents on it if it doesn't come with a pre-order.

That, along with unique cavalry graphics for some Middle Eastern cultures and some extra music, comes with the Digital Extreme edition for $5 more. (Green Man's cashback or store credit preorder bonus is $1/$2 larger than for the standard edition, though, reducing it to $3-$4 extra if you go that way.)

General preorder bonuses -- regardless of edition -- are a Hundred Years' War infantry model pack and Byzantine events and models, with two more to be revealed in August.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 21:15

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Leviathan, March of the Eagles and Impire are all 75% off for a few hours at Green Man, all Steam keys. Another 10% with the code on that page.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2013 23:33

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

PrinceRandom posted:

http://texasrepublic.info/

Proof that Texan should still exist as a Culture?

I think if your website ends in .info, that's pretty good evidence that you're not a "credible" movement.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2013 23:21

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Vodos posted:

In that case I'd suggest waiting a bit, they'll likely put up another coupon applying to EU shortly before release. I can post when I spot one or I'm sure someone else will.

I wasn't sure if a coupon would ever work cause it also has the cashback/store credit bonus -- do they ever allow coupons on preorders with those?

# ¿ Jul 25, 2013 17:14

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Can you still earn the Call to Arms rewards now that they've started sending out the initial ones? I only got to 3 so I was hoping I still have time to unlock the DLC the next tier.

WeaponGradeSadness posted:

It really goes to show how meaningful leaders are now; a player can still succeed despite a lovely king like Henry Lancaster, but at a disadvantage, meanwhile a good king used well can completely turn around a nation's misfortune. I think the only time I even thought about my ruler in EUIII was to worry when he didn't have an heir. If he had one then he never even entered my mind. This seems like a really good system that will lead to really dynamic gameplay depending on who's leading each country.

I will say it always annoyed me when I couldn't enact some decision or whatever it was that required a monarch with a certain ability score. It felt frustrating to be crippled by the RNG, possibly for 30+ years, especially if there were other potentially difficult conditions to fulfill that might not be met when a competent king took the throne (another reason to like the elective governments). Hope the new game doesn't cause the same frustrations.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2013 04:18

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

SilkyP posted:

I was trying to puzzle this out by myself but I have a question. As someone who has tried and failed to get into EUIII (Haven't tried CKII), does EU IV look to be any more nub friendly? I realllly wanna get how to play these paradox games.

It does sound like they've simultaneously simplified and deepened a number of concepts that were needlessly monotonous or arcane in EU3, like trade. There's an ongoing preview LP at the Youtube channel of someone I'm sure you can find linked hereabouts, though I can't say how useful it'd be for your evaluation as I haven't watched it myself yet.

But, as everyone will tell you, CK2 is a fantastic intro to Paradox and frequently cheap so that'd probably be a better option than diving in on EU4 at full price.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2013 00:52

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

CK2 is Steam's daily deal, and all DLC -- including Old Gods -- is 75% off.

(The perennial question: Sword of Islam lets you play as Muslims. Legacy of Rome doesn't unlock any characters, but adds flavor to Greeks and retinues for everyone. The Republic lets you play as patricians. Old Gods lets you play as pagans. Strictly speaking, none are necessary, but all supply new twists on the experience that have generally been very well-received.)

KICK BAMA KICK fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 27, 2013

# ¿ Jul 27, 2013 18:11

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Liberatore posted:

Green Man Gaming will give you $8 cash back or $12 credit for pre-ordering the Digital Extreme Edition ($7/10 for standard). You might be able to find a voucher to add a 20% or better discount, but I'm not sure if there are any for August yet.

I was asking about this earlier and someone said GMG vouchers never apply to games with the cashback/credit offers. Some regions don't have that offer on EU4, so a voucher would work for them, but you can't combine them.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2013 22:08

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

France totally came after me as Portugal in that war with Britain. Landed a few guys while I was distracted taking Casablanca, but I easily repelled them. Then I spaced on paying attention again/using my navy to prevent more invasions and they brought more than I could handle. Refused all my peace offers throughout but eventually took a white peace with Britain despite occupying three or four of my provinces, and I guess that ended my war too?

The end of a war you're involved in really should be a pause/popup by default. When I noticed a month later or whenever I couldn't even find the terms in the message log, had to look under History. Do love all the stuff about monarch points and such though.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2013 01:49

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

EU4: Do +papal influence events work? I'm not seeing any from the Portuguese Inquisition one. Also -- rally points?

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 05:24

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

I'm pro-EU4 thread, especially if someone's willing to maintain the OP post-release, consolidating all the important tips we figure out/questions that get asked every page in one place. Plus mod links, DLC info, I think there's plenty to justify it. I'm about to preorder but this thread's going to be close to unreadable for anyone who hasn't for a month or so, and that's a shame.

Marathoned half a V2 game today as Persia. Still not a GP; probably was too slow on Westernizing and improving literacy, but industrialization has gone pretty well. Made friends with the UK and Russians, mostly avoided the Ottomans after a dumb mistake cost me an early containment war. Just stole Sinai from Egypt, who somehow wasn't allied or sphered yet -- they had a few friendly GPs but I'm well-liked and they were all involved in a proto-Great War so nobody bothered to help. I assume someone will take an interest in that soon though, which is OK since this has been a pretty uneventful game so far.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2013 07:01

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Finished my first full game of V2. I guess it didn't really go that well as I failed to ever achieve GP as Persia and finished just short in 9th. Wasn't even close until the only Great War broke out in the late 1920s and when I got called by both war leaders I managed to pick the right side -- with the UK and Germany vs. Russia, France, Austria-Hungary over Greece's claim to Ottoman Thessalonia. Didn't love the prospect of fighting both my immediate neighbors but managed to keep them from totally overrunning me in time for British doomstacks out of India to save me. The capitulations left me with only a few hundred points to climb but my economy had been ruined by mobilization, my army cut to a third and my navy destroyed.

Wasn't really a very interesting game as I spent most of it waiting out infamy, growing literacy and smacking down rebels but glad I finished one before EU4 at least.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2013 05:52

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Europa Universaurus obviously.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2013 06:55

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

As often happens in this thread or Paradox games in general, these last posts sent me off to Wikipedia to learn a little about this Cavour fellow I'd never heard of.

History's greatest goon.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2013 00:07

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

About to finish my first EU4 game -- all I want to do now is play Paradox games but think I'll wait for EU4's next big patch at least before another round. Debating either an Old Gods game since I never actually played CK2 since that DLC but leaning toward V2 HoD.

Tried a few of the common suggestions like Sweden, Brazil and Japan; only game I've actually finished is Persia, which was OK but I felt like I was on the sidelines most of the time. Looking for something that:

doesn't start as a GP, would prefer something more manageable at the beginning;
preferably outside western/northern Europe, cause I'd like to learn some new geography;
has a natural goal, like territory to reclaim, a tag to form;
is constantly up in some poo poo -- I want stuff happening, I want to at least occasionally be the center of the world's attention.

Greece and the whole Balkans region seemed to be the subject of most of the crises in my games, anything there decently playable? Or something like that elsewhere?

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 02:40

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Thanks for all the suggestions. Mexico sounds like a good call. I don't think the V2 instructional LP thread ever compiled that list of interesting countries, plenty of good material in these posts.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 16:36

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

Trustworthy posted:

I too am just getting back into Vic2 (for the first time since release). Are both expansions pretty mandatory for a fine-tuned experience?

This being Victoria makes me think probably yes, but the scope of recent CK2 expansions makes me think maybe not.

AHD and HoD are much more in the old style of "fix everything" Paradox expansions rather than the CK2 "optionally flesh out a dimension of the game" kind.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 04:18

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

fuf posted:

Is there a chance EU4 will be a daily deal in the current steam sale?

(sorry if this is inappropriate / has been discussed)

Very possible. Last sale price I saw it on Steam was maybe 50% a few weeks ago? So I'd expect that or better.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2013 16:49

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 15:36

KICK BAMA KICK: Mar 2, 2009

BillBear posted:

the Allies would lose national unity for every month Germany wasn't defeated

I thought few in the US really knew (or cared about) the full extent of the Holocaust until Allied troops actually came upon the concentration camps?

# ¿ Apr 13, 2014 01:07

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