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The upgrades to the duels and war battles were definitely palpable in V. That said it had its own flaws relating to overall gameplay (encounter rates, crummy town layouts, load times, piss easy bosses) where Suikoden II had more issues with things like absurd high end twinking being a bit too... available. I like the overall difficulty curve in II (disclaimer, I like my story-driven games a bit on the easy side), where bosses aren't too bad if you play casual but putting thought into how you set up your party rewards you with shiny numbers, but the stuff the game just hands you gets very silly too easily. But no mistake, Suikoden as a whole is a series where you pick which flaws you find forgivable. Suikoden III is one of my absolute, best-game-ever favorite games, and the issues I take with it really haven't even cropped up yet so it's not meaningful to talk about them for now. (Although if you think about the main conceit of the game, you can probably guess the biggest issue that's going to crop up.)
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Jan 11, 2013 09:58
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My biggest complaint about III is probably how your character controls in the overworld. There are lots of flaws you can point out and I will forgive, but the awkwardness of walking around and opening doors is one of the few that I forgive the least (if that makes any sense). It's not obvious in screenshot form, but on my very first playthrough of III yokaiy and I decided early on that the player-controlled character(s) must be quite drunk.  My other chief complaint (as well as one of the things I like best about III) will come into play much, much later.
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Jan 11, 2013 22:31
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Everyone posted:Clear data stuff I guess it's vaguely worth mentioning that I'm not using clear data for this LP. RentCavalier posted:...ugh. It's really too early to get into it...this game is like...it's not bad. It's good, but it's good in bad ways. And it's certainly not good in ways that Suikoden 2 was good in. It basically derailed the entire franchise too, since Suikoden 4 was another weird one. Suikoden 3 is guilty of changing way too many things, leaving you with a game bearing the Suikoden name, but not feeling in any particular way LIKE a Suikoden game. I feel like Chrono Trigger/Cross suffer from that. Trigger was amazing, but Cross is an awful sequel. Make no mistake, I still love Cross dearly, and it's a good game, but it's a bad follow-up. Though, I don't really agree that Sui3 had this problem or derailed the series, but that's just me. Also, I highly doubt Sui3's faults had much bearing on Sui4's. That's a whole other can of worms. I'm sure vilkacis would LOVE to tell everyone all about it. (Vilk I have so much respect for you, just saying.  )Honestly, I think I had the most problems adopting the dogs, and only one of them is even part of the 108 stars. Lotish posted:I just wish the series had kept going, but now Konami's let their RPG department completely disintegrate so they've farmed the name out to Tri-Ace. Lately there's been a bit of a movement to try and resurrect the series, though. A group of fans going by the name "Suikoden Revival Movement" have started campaigning on Facebook to Konami. A few days ago, they descended on the Konami page in bulk, and there were enough posters to get both a Kotaku article about it (for whatever that's worth) and an announcement from Konami in response. The announcement was pretty much just "Lol we like your feedback, but we're not saying anything on whether or not we're gonna do anything with the series right now" though.  Zosephine posted:My biggest complaint about III is probably how your character controls in the overworld. There are lots of flaws you can point out and I will forgive, but the awkwardness of walking around and opening doors is one of the few that I forgive the least (if that makes any sense). This. If I had a quarter for every time we missed a door or ran into a wall instead of going straight on a path, I would be able to buy a physical copy of Suikoden II off of ebay. One of these days I'll make a gif of one of our main characters just running in a wobbly circle, and you'll see what we mean. For some reason, it isn't as bad running it off an emulator. It might just be lagging so much that I'm not noticing it anymore?
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Jan 11, 2013 23:37
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yokaiy posted:I guess it's vaguely worth mentioning that I'm not using clear data for this LP. I guess you better have a way to get the Barbarossa and Neclord plays in the theatre then. Those CAN'T be missed.
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Jan 12, 2013 01:24
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Edit: Well, I've messed something up in that quote. I wonder if Fubar was the original name of the griffon in Japanese and they were unaware of what it's an acronym for or if it was a joke made by the translators. Testekill fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jan 12, 2013 |
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Jan 12, 2013 07:43
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Shiki Dan posted:I guess you better have a way to get the Barbarossa and Neclord plays in the theatre then. Unfortunately, I don't. I'll have to find videos or something. I'll at least post the scripts, if I can't find any. e: It's because I don't have the clear data in the first place. Thought I should explain myself there. Testekill posted:Edit: Well, I've messed something up in that quote. His name in Japanese is フーバー, which does Romanize to "Fubar." (It's actually "Fuubaa" but close enough) It comes from the word "Fuu" (風) which means "wind." I'm not sure if the translators knew the acronym or not, but I feel like they probably didn't.
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Jan 12, 2013 08:10
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yokaiy posted:Unfortunately, I don't. I'll have to find videos or something. I'll at least post the scripts, if I can't find any. If you're using an emulator, can't you just download it?
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Jan 12, 2013 08:38
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Even if you do, you have to use a code to change the Suiko 1 hero's name.
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Jan 12, 2013 09:07
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It didn't cross my mind when I started, and it's a bit too late to start over for the clear data now. Like I said, I'll try and find videos of those two, and I'll at least show off the mechanic once we get there and track down the scripts. We're not anywhere near that point of the game, though. Update coming shortly, I'm just double-checking it for anything I may have messed up on. Sorry for the delay this time around.
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Jan 13, 2013 07:11
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Hugo Chapter 1.4 - Duck in the Big City When last we left our boys, we were headed to the Zexen capital after getting a pretty nasty taste of Zexens (and elves) at the Brass Castle.  We've got one more place to go through before we hit Vinay del Zexay itself, and it's the aptly named Zexen Forest.  Our first encounter is with Holly Shrubs. These little leaves are pitiful, and incredibly funny looking. Holly-themed monsters are a recurring joke in this forest.  Since we passed through Brass Castle and buffed up our characters, Hugo/Fubar are now hitting for nearly 500 damage. This is against the Holly Shrubs so it's pretty skewed, but this is still a Metric Fuckton of damage.  The Shrubs are weak and come in large numbers, but that's actually a good thing. They are very likely to drop medicines, and it's entirely probable to get around three medicines per battle. At this point in the game, this will save us a lot of money. Just imagine this screen happening like 5 times each time we go through the forest.  This is also our first time encountering these sparkling plants.  If you interact with them, you will get either a medicine of some sort, or a trade item. These show up in many of the routes.  You can also happen upon corpses along the side of the road. They act as treasure chests in this game, and you loot them upon investigating. Their stuff is a one-time deal, but the corpses remain in place forever. There are also actual treasure chests in this game. We'll see some eventually.  Other enemies we can encounter include Creepers that aren't purple, but are still annoying.  We can also find these bugs called Vermitors.  They are incredibly disturbing in that they shoot missiles out of their backs. They're also very rarely alone. (This cap is actually from a different battle, but I didn't get a good shot of it in that one.  )Their attacks can hurt, though, so let's show off Joe's water rune.    Healing Drops, the first level Water spell, will heal a single pair. Right now it's doing jack-all because Joe's not too great with it, but even without breaking 100 HP it's still more than enough. However, since it can be used only on a per-pair basis, you should still have your party carry plenty of medicines if they can fit it. Having more than one Water Rune per party helps a lot as well. The forest is surprisingly small, though, so we get through it pretty quickly, and trigger a scene at the end.   : "Rico! You're so slow, everyone will get away before we get there." : "We Maximillian Knights are on a critical mission. The buds of war are set to bloom across this land. It's our duty to sever them swiftly. Sooner the better." : "Yes, understood, sir.": "I should hope so. Make certain your legs understand too!"He notices us, finally. : "Hmmm?" : "Speak, boy! What do you know of evil knights said to be coming to Grassland?"Here, I'm pointing out that there is a choice you can make, but obviously we're going with the funnier one and lying to him.  : "In the north there are stories..."I can imagine Hugo's face suddenly getting very serious and bleak-looking. Lulu would probably laugh and ruin it, though. Then again, I'm not sure Fred would catch on even if Lulu did ruin it. Fred is a little   : "Fr-Fr-Fred... Wait! Sir!" Fred runs off, and Rico dashes after him. : "What in spirits?" I'm with you on this one, Hugo. Let's not chase after that weirdo. After exiting the forest, we finally find ourselves outside of Vinay del Zexay. And this is what the capital sounds like. We'll be here a lot, so get VERY acquainted with this tune, and how easily it can get stuck in your head.   : "There it is! It lies here, just as I said. And you doubted my directions! It seems I've earned my wings."You were born with them -- I can't believe it took you this long to realize.  : "Sergeant, are you sure it wasn't luck?": "Of course not. Though, truth be told, this is my first time here..."Joe turns and walks over to Fubar.  : "Now then. Fubar, you're to wait outside the city. Hide yourself in the woods." : "Kuuee!": "Is that necessary?": "In case you didn't notice, we get a lot of weird looks when Fubar's around. We're in a strange land, you know."There's a short pause where Hugo contemplates this. : "What? Oh, um. You see, I... I thought they were looking at you." There's a long pause.  Of several seconds.  After Hugo speaks.   Another pause, in which I got the best Hugo expression. : "Kuuee!"Joe starts to walk off without them. : "You'll have to wait outside, Fubar. You can hunt, but don't disturb anything belonging to Zexens. And don't get hunted yourself.": "Kuuee!": "See you later, pal.": "Kuuee!"Hugo and Lulu leave Fubar behind, who trots off into the woods.  Before letting us move again, the game brings up the order menu. You'll notice Fubar is now absent. They are REALLY good about having this happen when characters join and leave. A bit later, there's a character who escorts you out of a town, and you're drat skippy she joins your party for the two minutes it takes to walk the distance, then leaves when you exit. It's a nice touch, but also a little annoying sometimes.  But enough of that, let's head inside.  : "Behold, the Zexen capitol! I shall cherish this first vision forever!" : "It's really bigger than I thought it'd be."Yeah, well, Karaya is really small. : "This place makes me feel -- hmm, not good. That's for sure.": "I know the feeling. Grasslanders are more at home without walls. Open plains and meadow breezes are for us. I'd like to go back as soon as possible."With that, we're now given free reign to explore the Zexen city.   : "Hmmm...."And we're off to a friendly start already.   : "It's a big town, isn't it? Of course, Vinay del Zexay IS the capital of Zexen. Try not to get lost."As you can see in the mini-map, the town quickly branches outwards. The branches converge in two spots a bit further down. All the yellow lines on it, by the way, are either area changes or camera changes. I hadn't pointed them out before because, until now, they had only marked a change in area. Vinay has some really awkward camera jolts, though, so I guess they were also marked on the map to give you fair warning.  In addition to being very big, Vinay has a LOT of people to talk to.  : "That's an unusual outfit. Where are you from? Karaya? Sorry, never heard of it." : "Lady Chris is fantastic. Beautiful, intelligent, strong... A truly rare combination of traits..." : "Listen to this! We had Sir Borus in our store the other day! He was buying wine. Man, he looked cool..." : "Wait a minute, that's a Karayan outfit! I went to Grassland once, AGES ago. I saw outfits like that!" : "Hands off the horse! With all due respect, this horse belongs to a councilor." And then, suddenly, BAM. New camera angle. It is very abrupt. : "That's right. Vinay del Zexay grew out of the deer antler trade. Gezel Hyatt made a fortune, and he built the international port."Deer antlers are pretty good for trade, actually. : "This guy may be young, but he has a wisdom beyond his age!" : "Leave me alone."    We go down the path to the left first.  There's a house to the left side that we have some business with, before we go any further into town.  : "Let's hope there's no wait to see a Lightfellow."   : "So that is why you have come. I see.": "Yes. This is for them." : "Very good, Sir. This does indeed belong to the Lightfellow family. Where did you obtain it?": "Jimba has kept it for years. He's the son of Luce of the Karaya Clan.": "From Sir Jimba, you say."The butler hesitates just long enough for Hugo to feel awkward.  : "Is there something wrong?": "Er, no, of course not. We cannot thank you enough for bringing this here. I will see to it personally that Lady Chris receives this.": "Please do. Farewell, then.": "Sir, before you leave, may we not reward you for your service?": "Reward? Ah. No need. It was a favor for Jimba." : "Yes?": "Jimba also wanted you to know that the Zexen soldier who had this died heroically."Hugo can be very polite sometimes. Not a single "ironhead" from his lips while he was doing this favor. Though, I guess he's more sensible than Lulu. : "I... see. That is... something I will communicate to Lady Chris.": "Thank you. Farewell, then.": "Yes, thank you so much. Our thanks to Sir Jimba as well." The butler bows to Hugo as he leaves.  I guess Joe and Lulu decided to stay by the gate for this.  : "Ooh. That's an unusual outfit. Where are you from?" : "Oh, hello! Is this your first time in Zexay? Keep going straight to Port Avenue, then make the next turn for the Guild Hall."That's where our next task is located. It's above the big white dot in the center of the mini-map. We take his advice and turn towards the center, and are met with another abrupt camera change.    : "Cool...": "I want to do that! I want to be a knight and fight in the service of Lady Chris!": "Captain Galahad died in battle, but Lady Chris took over. I plunged into the barbarian horde saying 'Take that, you Lizards!' "We take vague offense to that. The Lizards are our bros.  : "Oooh... whew... I'm so BUSY! I wish I had two bodies." : "After dark, this place is full of lovey-dovey couples..."Ew. Let's head up towards the Council Hall, since that's where we're supposed to be going.  There are some kids playing outside.  : "Huh? Me? Me and my friends are just playing. What do you want?" : "Whoah! Check out the costume!" : "Huh? The inn? The inn's near the port. Next to the bazaar. Ask someone when you get there."Helpful, inns are important.  A scene starts when you get close enough to the Hall.  Fancy. : "This place fits the description we were given.": "Let's ask someone.": "How about that ironhead by the door?" : "Excuse me, sir. I'm here to meet with the Zexen Council Head.": "............" (Yes, I counted how many there were.) : "Don't you understand me?": "Everyone else here speaks our language.": "............": "Answer me already!": "............"Wow, that needs to stop. : "Who needs this guy? Let's go in and see for ourselves."    : "Hey!": "............"This isn't getting anywhere. Luckily, our Duck cuts in to help out. : "There may be a more diplomatic way to get the results we seek." Joe steps up to the plate.  : "Ahem. This young man comes as an official messenger sent from the Grassland by Lucia, the Karaya Clan Chief, to deliver an official message to the Zexen Council. We therefore request access.": "What proof do you have that he is the official messenger?": "You ask for proof!" He pulls Hugo closer. : "This is Hugo, the very son of the Karaya Chief! He is the proof!": "And I am the son of Luce. My legs are as quick as Hugo's!"Lulu. Stahp.  There's a long pause. : "Very well then. You may enter."He turns and opens the door, then heads in before us.  : "Sergeant, you did it! Did you see the look on his face? Teach us the spell you cast!": "He's not much more stubborn than the Lizard Clan. A little patience and respect go a long way."That's not a spell, you silly duck. : "Whatever you say.": "Now let's do what we came here to do."The scene fades to black as they enter, and fades back into the exterior once again.  : "This is ridiculous! After coming all this way, they won't even see us for 2 to 3 days?": "But mother said they'd be expecting a messenger..." : "What do you mean?": "A discussion is apparently not a valuable enough item to 'pay' for their time. They're showing us how priceless their time is to them.": "We have to wait around for some protocol? The longer I stay here the less I like it.": "Makes my feathers stiff!" : "Well... if that's how it has to be, why can't we use this time to check out what we've never seen before?": "We'll need to find a place to stay. Fortunately, we have the funds for it." Lulu, at the very least, seems pretty excited about this.  He also seems to attract animals, as a black cat crosses his path.  This game has a thing for cats, if I didn't already mention it.  : "I hope Fubar will be all right." Well, that was a huge bummer. We head to the right to get to the port.  There's a band of minstrels playing just north of the inn. In another nice sound-design touch, the Vinay music fades away as you get close to them. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the tune. : "Vinay del Zexay is this continent's ocean gateway. We see all kinds of people here.": "It's a big place, isn't it? That's because it's the Zexen capital. Lots of wealthy folk, too." : "Donations after the performance, please!" : "Er, I'm performing at the moment..."And thus we meet our second elf. However, she is not a terrible person. She was raised by humans instead of elves, though, so that might have something to do with it.  : "...."The minstrels don't really have much to say to us later, we'll have to check back when they're not playing. : "I wish Dad would hurry up and come home.": "Daddy's coming home from abroad today. He's going to bring us some souvenirs! It's so exciting!": "What use is this to me? Here. Why don't you have it?" Lady, I can't use this yet. But I guess. Hey, look, it's that kid again. : "You know, you smell like a country meadow...": "Ships set sail from that port to other continents. This town is built on trade, so we get a lot of ships here."No, we don't actually get to go to said continents, unfortunately. Heading back to talk to the kid triggers a scene.  : "No way! My father is no liar! It's true! It's true!" : "My five-man search party and I went to the northern mountains but saw no sign of your father or this phantom ship."A ship in some mountains? Uh...  : "Have you seen it with your own eyes?": "I'm telling you... I'm saying that... My father's no liar!" : "Oh, I know what the problem is, he's scared. He ran away because we would've uncovered the truth. It's in his blood. Like father, like son...?" : "Wa-wait, come back! Melville!" After the scene plays out, two NPCs take their spot. : "This guy's jokes are so cool!!"  That was awful.[ u ]  [ / u ]  The inn is down here, but we'll ignore it for now.  : "The inn? Look. See? On that corner. Its right by the port, so you'll see the ocean from your room."Thanks, lady, but I found it already... : "Well, I never. Are you Karayan? The last time I saw a Karayan here was years ago!": "Ooh, you're so dark. I wish I was tanned like that." : "That outfit's a rare sight. Are you sightseeing? You can buy souvenirs around here."With that area covered, we head west to the port.   : "Beautiful... Ah... What a beautiful world."This is Augustine. He is fabulous, but he doesn't have anything interesting to say yet. And so continues the Suikoden tradition of having one or a couple of fabulous men per game. : "Once I've made enough money, I'm going to quit this job, board a ship, and travel overseas.": "I don't want to hear his nonsense about going overseas. I like it here."The man in yellow just tells us where to find the inn, so I'll skip him. : "Did you see the parade? Didn't Lady Chris look great!"Why did they have a parade instead of a funeral?? Is Chris so much of a celebrity that her becoming captain overshadowed the loss of BOTH of her superiors? I can understand wanting to distract the public with good news, but still.  : "I'm still lost in the magic of that parade... When I grow up, I'm going to be a knight too!" : "No one ever wins the jackpot at the lottery... But once in a while you see a second-prize winner...."I was going to take this opportunity to show it off... but decided to procrastinate on that a bit more. Moving on.  : "The evening's the only time for a proper date...": "The trader here just doesn't seem interested in his work. Try calling out to him over the counter..."Maybe later.  Hugo's half-lidded expression reflects my own.  : "I hear the supply shop in Iksay sells the prettiest rose brooches. I'd love to try one on for myself..."This is actually a hint towards getting a character later. Just keep it in mind for now. Or, forget it. I'll remember it, so no problems there. : "One day, I'd love to have a parade like Lady Chris..."While we're outside of an Appraiser, and since we have some ? items, let's see how that works.  It's pretty simple. You hand the appraiser some money, and the tell you if your ? item is worth anything.  Our ?Figurines ended up both being Failure Urns. This means we have officially lost money, as it costs 250 potch to appraise, and you can only sell Failure Urns for 50. And yet, I love the idea of getting an urn that is just so full of failure that it can hardly be considered an urn at all.  What even constitutes an urn being THAT bad? No joke, it's probably my favorite in-game item solely because it is silly.: "There are so many different things. It's really interesting...": "Vinay del Zexay is a trading town. You can find all kinds of famous and unusual items here. My daughter loves it!"We leave and head to the last little stretch of the city we haven't seen yet, which promptly triggers a scene.  : "Sorry, Alanis. My mother said I couldn't play till I finished my bean soup. But it smelled so bad that I couldn't finish it. You know how sensitive my nose is...": "............" That's not just a lucky cap. She's actually making that face. It's perfect. : "Not about that. What we decided yesterday! Or did you forget?": "Huh? Oh, yeah. 'Alanis, Silver Maiden and Sub-Captain of the Saint Loa Knights,' I apologize for coming late. But it was the bean soup's fault...": "Elliot! Never mind, let's go to the castle. You remember the password, right? Elliot?"Aw, they're playing make-believe.  : "No problem. It's 'The Three Knights of Zexen.' Heheh. See? I remember!": "Not that we need to say it if there's only two of us. Well, let's go."  Hmmm.  HMMMMM. Next time: We go scare some children!
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Jan 13, 2013 07:51
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A lot of folks detest this part. I suppose I can kinda see it? But all things considered it's worth seeing once. But considering you can just head up to the inn and rest a few times to skip to the next event, not really worth getting upset over. On the whole it's part of one of Suikoden III's bigger strengths. The game is just loaded with little options that, while they don't truly shape the narrative, do effect how scenes play out and provide a sense that what you do lets you see different aspects of the story. Generally speaking a good way to nod to the earlier games' silent heroes but still moving past it.
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Jan 13, 2013 10:10
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I like that they give you the option of just waiting two to three days. But who doesn't explore the whole place and talk to everyone? Not someone who plays a lot of RPGs, I can tell you that much.
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Jan 13, 2013 21:27
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I enjoy the Saint Loa Knights part. They're pretty likable kids in general and the sidequest is actually a nice little challenge since you can't rely on Fubar for damage during it. Plus completing it gets another scene later on IIRC. Also, Fred is just another example of the Maximilian Knights being frigging amazing. I'm pretty sure that being a little crazy is a requirement for membership.
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Jan 13, 2013 22:53
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I sort of like it, actually. It introduces a new area, a couple new mechanics (which I just remembered I forgot to cap a picture of one of them when I was playing, dammit... Gonna have to go back and do that.), almost introduces a couple other mechanics, and is just overall a nice alternative to "go sleep at the inn." This sidequest has some nice characterization for our Grasslanders as well, which I'm rather fond of. I am not very fond of the area it takes place in, though. I'm going to miss Fubar's damage output so much during this section.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:05
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The first time I played this (and I'm a huge completionist that managed to get everyone but Crowley and Window--both of whom require knowledge of secret passages--in S1) I completely missed the St. Loa Knights. Which actually made for an unplayable game since the game seems to expect you to do the Knights quest and get some levels under your belt. If you don't do it, it's entirely possible to find yourself in a situation where you save your game right before a mandatory fight that you simply don't have the levels to win. I had to restart the game. I'd played 2 Chris and 3 Geddoe chapters.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:16
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Y'all don't know it yet but Fred is the best character in the entire series. Mark my words.
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Jan 14, 2013 06:21
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FairGame posted:The first time I played this (and I'm a huge completionist that managed to get everyone but Crowley and Window--both of whom require knowledge of secret passages--in S1) I completely missed the St. Loa Knights. That is awful, I feel really bad for you. So did you go back and redo everything after all? I'm working on the next update now, sorry it's taking so long. Had to go back and redo a bit, and didn't really have the time for it. The update should be up tomorrow if everything goes well.
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Jan 16, 2013 19:31
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Thats my biggest gripe about this game is that its really easy to get forced to start over. At some point you're forced to use geddoe and co. and I hadn't leveled them in a long time and kept getting slaughtered by random mobs. Rage quit the game after that and haven't really felt like picking it up again since.
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Jan 16, 2013 22:54
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I guess with the design of the Trinity Sight System, it would be difficult for the game designers to gauge the strength of the typical player's characters at various points. Unlike other Suikodens, this game I feel really expects you to grind at certain points. In truth, bringing certain skills up is far more important in some cases that levels or equipment. The problem is, if you're playing without a guide, it's near impossible to know exactly which skills are fairly vital and which ones are a waste of time and SP. It doesn't help that each character has unique proficiencies. Also that the game does quite a terrible job at explaining what each skill actually does. So I can see how certain players hit roadblocks. With Geddoe, his chapters are a lot less "on rails", so I spent a lot of time grinding with him pretty much out of habit.
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Jan 17, 2013 07:19
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General Antares posted:Thats my biggest gripe about this game is that its really easy to get forced to start over. At some point you're forced to use geddoe and co. and I hadn't leveled them in a long time and kept getting slaughtered by random mobs. Rage quit the game after that and haven't really felt like picking it up again since. ... really? I assume you're talking chapter 5 here? Not to say there aren't some relatively decent randoms in that area but... man. I'm not sure we played the same game.
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Jan 17, 2013 07:33
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CmdrKing posted:... really? I assume you're talking chapter 5 here? Not to say there aren't some relatively decent randoms in that area but... man. I'm not sure we played the same game. Yeah, the Ancient Highway is perfect for leveling at that point.
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Jan 17, 2013 07:42
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If memory serves, you DO get locked into a dungeon once you go there at that stage. Just... regardless of how long it's been since you used Geddoe or his team you should be able to win fights and catch up in levels. While levels are relatively less useful than equipment or skills they're still useful when you get 5 of them in a shot, which characters you haven't used for a couple dungeons will definitely do.
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Jan 17, 2013 07:50
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CmdrKing posted:If memory serves, you DO get locked into a dungeon once you go there at that stage. Just... regardless of how long it's been since you used Geddoe or his team you should be able to win fights and catch up in levels. While levels are relatively less useful than equipment or skills they're still useful when you get 5 of them in a shot, which characters you haven't used for a couple dungeons will definitely do. You don't get transported there straight away though. Although being trapped there without decent skills or equipment would be tough. But lets face it, Geddoe has a rock-solid default party that can handle most threats. You're not lugging around a painfully average character like Hugo does with Lulu.
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Jan 17, 2013 08:08
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Like I said in White Dragon's LP, Suiko 3 is by far the hardest game in the entire series, but for all of the wrong reasons. You constantly have to grind for SOMEthing (be it levels, potch, or SP) if you want to bring characters up to speed. In a series known for being as anti-grinding as possible. You also have a ton of characters that you are required to use at some point of another. I think there's seriously like at least 30 characters in the game who are required to be in your battle party at one point or another; all of which will probably need at least some training, skills, armor, and weapon sharpening. With other games in the series, you are forced to lug around painfully mediocre-to-terrible characters at certain points (KRIN  ) but raising them was a matter of taking them to newest area and doing about 5-6 quick random battles to let them catch up.Not so in Suikoden 3, however. The fact that much more of the game is on rails and cuts off access to certain areas only makes it harder. That said, I'm not dumping on the game however. I still really like it, possibly BECAUSE I dig the skill system and battles where I can't just sleepwalk through random encounters (Suiko 1/2), or rely on some ridiculously powerful rune (Suiko 1/5) and that every PC is the game is somewhat unique and not bland & interchangeable (Suiko 4).
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Jan 17, 2013 08:41
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Hugo Chapter 1.5 - Mine, mine, mine! Last time, we cornered some small children in an alley way. By which I mean they ran there and this looks like a sidequest, so let's follow them.  The alley suffers from another extreme camera-shift, one which I didn't cap. Just imagine looking one way, then when you get past a certain point, looking the exact opposite way.  Anyway, the kids don't seem to be on the ground, but there are some ladders and some rafters to climb on, so let's check up there.  Lo and behold, there's a window up here that we can knock on. : "Oh, it's Melville. Hold on, I'm coming!": "Elliot, wait. The password.": "Ah, right. Melville! Do you remember the password?": "Elliot! We're not supposed to know that it's Melville."We're then prompted to give them the password. The other two choices just end in them asking if we forgot already, and then letting us pick the right one. : " 'The Three Knights of Zexen.' ": "Right. I'll open the gates."And so, they let us in.  : "Wh-what... Who are... You're not Melville!"What ever gave you that impression? : "Who are you! If you came to take over out castle, we'll fight!": "You... y-y-you would take over our castle?": "First you'll have to defeat me, the Silver Maiden, then the Swordsman of Wind, Elliot!"I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but "Silver Maiden" is actually a nickname for Chris. So she's pretending she's Chris. I believe the "Swordsman of Wind" is one of the knights we haven't seen yet. : "Huh? You want me to fight?" He... takes up a fighting stance... sort of?  While I doubt this would have ended in a fight, their shenanigans are brought to a halt when someone else knocks on the window. : " 'The Three Knights of Zexen.' "There's a hesitation. Since Alanis and Elliot sure aren't opening the window, he repeats himself. : " 'The Three Knights of Zexen! Alanis, Elliot -- open the gates!"Hugo decides to open it for them, since he's closest.  : "............" Melville is confused, and rightly so. : "Hmm? Who, uh, is this guy? A new recruit?": "............"You know, I don't think anyone knows what's going on anymore. The scene cuts to what's probably a few minutes and a few nervous explanations later. : "Wow, so you came from Grassland. Fantastic! The name of the clan is...?": "Karaya Clan. I am here representing my clan.": "Is that a real weapon on your waist?": "It's no sword, but yes, it's real." He takes it out and gives it a few swings for the kids. Alanis and Elliot seem fascinated, but Melville seems a bit upset. : "Ooooooooh.": "Hmph! My father carried a sword, you know."Hugo puts the blade away out of respect. : "Speaking of your father, in town you were arguing about him, right?" : ".......... My father is the greatest swordsman of Donau Road, and...": "And Zexen's greatest treasure hunter! Right?": "Sure is. And he's my hero, too.": "That's right, Alanis, Elliot. Many months ago, my father went to the northern mountains. He came back to say he'd found a ship. Then he left to return to that ship.""And no one's heard from him since. I think he died. Or left me. Or both." : "I bet Melville's father found a ship full of treasure!": "Right. But he hasn't come back. Guillaume sent out a search party, but they didn't find him..."Wait, Guillaume's actually a nice guy? He seemed like a jerk when he was arguing with Melville earlier. : "Don't worry, Melville, he can take care of himself. He probably got carried away treasure hunting. That must be it! Don't believe what Guillaume says. He's a liar.": "I guess you're right. My father wouldn't lie to me. He just wouldn't.": "Hey, I have an idea! Why don't the Saint Loa Knights go to the northern mountain? We could find that ship too!": "Are you crazy? Just the three of us?": "Alanis, my father always said 'Bravery does not mean doing something dangerous.' " She turns to Hugo, who's just sort of been watching this go down. : "Are you referring to me?": "Of course! Who else is there?" : "Who are the Saint Loa Knights?" : "Oh, we must introduce ourselves. I am the captain of the Saint Loa Knights and the Swordsman of Rage, Melville!" He strikes a pose, Power Rangers style. "Swordsman of Rage" refers to Borus, by the way.  : "As you know already, I am the Silver Maiden, Alanis!" Oh gosh they're all going to do this aren't they. Okay, Elliot, I'm ready. Do your worst.  : "And I'm the Swordsman of Wind, Elliot!" : "Together we are The Three Knights of Zexen, the Saint Loa Knights!" Yeah, that just happened. And it won't be the last time, either. Fair warning. : "Well, I don't have anything better to do right now."Best response. : "Really? You'll come with us?": "I wouldn't want just the three of you to go alone." : "Uh, I um...": "We'll meet at the Seigal Gate to the city as soon as possible. And...?": " 'Hugo.' ": "And Hugo, you come as soon as possible too. Don't keep us waiting!""Don't worry, I'll be there, and I'll bring my duck too.  ": "Here we go! The Saint Loa Knights depart for adventure!" The three of them leave, and we regain control in their hideout. There's nothing interesting, though, so let's just head to the front gate and meet up with them.  It's a good thing there's only one gate in this town.  : "He's here! He made it! Over here!" Lulu and Joe will be joining Hugo and his new friends for this sidequest. Fubar, however, won't be coming along.  : "Thanks for coming. This will be great.": "Duke Hugo of Karaya, welcome to the Saint Loa Knights.": " 'Duke Hugo of Karaya'?": "Yes. You came from Karaya as a representative, right? So 'Duke' is about your rank. I think that's fair.": "We're off! To the northern mountains, to find the ship, and... And..." : "And we'll help Melville's father too. We will.": "............ Right.": "Yes! So let's go!" And so, we bring some small children into our group. You'll notice that Elliot isn't in the main party. Instead, he's got his own little section, and he's listed as a guest. When I said parties were up to six people, the truth is I lied a bit. Parties are comprised of six fighters, but there is also a seventh slot for a support character. Elliot would normally be a support character, but since the Saint Loa Knights are only joining us temporarily, we don't get his support benefits. So he's just gonna stand there and look pretty, really. You may also notice that Alanis and Melville are REALLY low level. Alanis barely has 30 HP. Lulu could probably one-shot her. We'll see just how awful they are when we get somewhere with enemies but yeah, they're bad. I've arranged them to be behind competent people so they don't get killed too much, but were they together in a pair, they would have a combination attack called "Child." They will also both berserk for each other when one of them goes down.  Exiting to the map will reveal a new area: the North Cavern. Interestingly, if you try and take them through Zexen Forest, a scene plays out where they tell you you're going the wrong way, and you get booted back out to the map.  Upon our arrival, a short scene plays. There will be quite a few of them. : "This must be it. I even detect the scent of water.": "Where there's water, there's a ship. Let's go in."Melville, that is not necessarily true. : "Right. Here we go, everyone."She begins to boldly walk inside, but the other two lag behind. : "Uh, but there's... well...": "What's the matter? It's too late to be scared now.": "Who said I was scared! Here I go." He is actually shaking while he says that. : "Oh, Elliot, what kind of knight is afraid of tunnels? Be brave and follow me!" The three run inside.  : " 'Knights'? You mean those tiny ironheads? Well... okay, since it's for the children.": "I thought their imagination and games would appeal to one your age, Lulu." : "Kwa kwa kwa! I'm sure you can." Welcome to the Northern Cavern. It is really boring. Most of the sections of the area are the same as this. Just a straight path down a brown mine. And honestly, I would be okay if that were the only problem. It's the middle rooms that I really hate. There is so little going on in these areas that my laptop wasn't even dropping any frames.  The enemies are not as boring. Those ladies are called Banshees, and they are the first example of a peculiar AI quirk in this game. They will prioritize Alanis over everyone else. If she is alive, they will attack her. And, since she's only got a handful of HP, she can only take two hits if she gets lucky. These first few levels will be awful for her. Female monsters and enemies will always target female members of your party before everyone else. I really don't know why, but they do. Oh, remember how I put Alanis and Melville in the back lines because they're awful so they wouldn't get hit with attacks?  Well, Banshees don't give a crap about your formation. They have magic, and they can target whoever they want to with it.  Or, far more frequently, they will dive under the ground -- because they can do that! -- and pop back up in your back lines to attack there anyway. Oh, and their attacks have a chance to put you to sleep, as well.  They don't have much HP, but they have a boatload of defense. Hugo has gone back to hitting around 50, and Joe isn't doing much better.  Lulu is barely hitting 20, Melville can't break 14.  Oh, and Alanis is doing a single point of damage. So yeah. These ladies.  However, Suikoden has a nice treat for dragging low level characters into areas they have no right to be in. Scaled experience. If they can just survive a few battles, Alanis and Melville will be able to catch up to the others pretty easily. Case in point, Melville got nearly four levels in that one battle  .Then, we have these things. Daggerwings. They don't have nearly as much defense, so we're hitting them much harder than we were the Banshees. However, they hit harder, and have more HP, so they're not easy to take down. So let's show off something that should help a little -- the "Child" combo attack!   The two of them charge up, and run at the foe, weapons at the ready.  They then run at the monster, flailing wildly.  Then, they run away, still flailing wildly.  As an after-effect, it leaves Alanis unbalanced so she can't attack next turn. It also doesn't do much damage. So, yeah. Probably not going to use that again.  Moving on, we have a third kind of enemy here, the Bandit. They're not really that special, but they come in groups of enough that it takes us more than one turn to beat them all.  Also, here we have Hugo landing a critical hit. See this? Right now it's not very common, but a little down the road? He'll be a crit-master. Crits can land more than 2x damage, by the way.  Already, the kids are starting to catch up nicely.  The second screen is pretty much the same as the first.  A few battles later, the kids have caught up to us. Suikoden leveling.  The Grasslanders seem to be leading the group, which isn't hard to wrap your head around. Melville and Alanis are close behind, with Elliot lagging in the back.  : "Will you be okay, Elliot?": "How... much... longer? We've been walking forever.": "Knight Elliot! If your horse were to collapse, you would have to walk great distances." : "Don't be so hard on him, Melville.": "But if a knight can't walk..." : "There's no sense in arguing. We've come a long way. Let's stop here.": "For once, I agree."And so, it fades out to later that night.  : "Can't you sleep?" : "Oh, me? I'll get to sleep soon. Melville, the tireless walker, fell asleep first. That boy!": "Even knights get tired."There's a pause. : "Alanis. Why do you want to find the ship so much?": "Huh?": "I could be wrong. But you seem more anxious than Melville to find it.": "Oh, well, maybe I do. There is a reason.": "What's the reason?" : "Pretty soon, I will have to say goodbye... I have to leave Vinay del Zexay. My father is a trade merchant, so I've never had a chance to settle down and make friends. My father planned to leave after half a year. That's soon. Meanwhile, I've made friends with Melville And Elliot..." [sic] : "That's why...": "Oh. I see..."The scene fades out to the next morning, where a militaristic drum-line starts to play.  Technically true. : "Awww... Tell them... to come back later... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..." (Yes, I counted them.): "Come on, even the Zexens are awake." Joe and Hugo exchange glances.   : "Hahahahaha!": "Hahahahahahaha!": "Lulu..." And with that, we're now in the first center room. Take a look at that lovely mini-map up in the corner there. This room is a spiral. It is so tedious.  Yup, you just run in circles until you get to the top.  It has a drop-off point for a shortcut, but if you accidentally fall down it, then you've got to run another lap. It's pretty easy to go down by accident.  Getting to the end brings us to...  Another straight corridor. We get a cutscene once we exit, though.  And these bandits make up for all frustrations I have about this place.  "Yes, we know, we understand.Even your rhymes built of sand. But repeat the orders too much not. Drives us mad, we pray you stop!" "Here we are, treasure seekers.Craving profits makes us weaker. While we're hungry for some grub... A massage! Now that we'd love."  "What the hell are we watching.  " : "W-who are... these people?": "These people are... what you'd call an unfortunate impediment to our quick return.": "Me-Me-Me-Melville! Home! Now! Please!": "Calm down, Elliot. Will the Saint Loa Knights run away from a few lousy bandits?"Yeah, I mean, we already beat down a bunch on our way here. : "Right, right! We can't run now!": "Hmmmm... Look, they're going inside!" : "Let's follow them." : "What about it, Hugo? Should we three go in too?": "It's better we go in too. Besides, I can't say no. They made me a Duke.": "Worried about court-martialing? Hehehe!": "Fine, we'll all go in. But if it gets any more dangerous, we must retreat right away!": "Oh, thank you! Thank you, Mr. Duck.": "............"No, Joe! Not you too! You've caught The Ellipses?  And then there's this room. It's the same as the last room, except we go down this time.  At least we get to use the shortcut for this one.    We fight them, but there's only two and it's hardly worth showing off. So just imagine a fight that ended quickly and got us no levels.  : "Ooohhh myyyyyy-- I don't believe what just happened...": "M-me too...": "How are the bandits, Sergeant?": "The ropes are secured. They'll be unconscious for some time. Now let's get in there. There's a ship somewhere, waiting to be found, right?": "R... right!": "Yeah, there has to be. Melville's father isn't a liar. And I'm going to help prove that!": "Me too! The Saint Loa Knights, together!"Well, then, let's head inside.  There's one final corridor before the end. The blue dot on the map is a save point, though it's hardly necessary.  : "Look, light from outside! And I can hear water!": "You mean, we've found the ship?" We're not the only ones who did, apparently. : "Ho ho ho ho ho! Welcome!"  Guillaume pulls a switch, and the gate predictably closes before the Grasslanders can enter.  : "We're locked out!": "It's that man from the Zexen city!": "Guillaume!" :worry: : "But why are you here?": "Do you reeeaaally want to know? Shall I tell you? Well now...": "I know why! You're the liar. You lied about Melville's father when you called HIM a liar!": "Ho ho ho ho ho! That's riiiight.": "But, why?!": "The reason is most simple. I did not want anyone to learn of this place. This place where I store my riches.": "Your riches?" : "Then, when the buyer leaves Vinay del Zexay, my bandits strike and return the bounty to me here. It is the perfect scheme. We know what each victim will be carrying, because they bought it from me!": "You... vicious thief! And so you've kept this place a secret.": "Naturally! This place is just far enough from Vinay del Zexay and the knight's fort. I've never worried about anyone else finding it. That is, until Melville's father spoke up about his discovery.": "Monster! For that evil plan, you..." : "... and I was just thinking of moving when you started to give me trouble. Hey! It's about time you lazy bandits got here!"    The battle's not very hard, but there are four of them, so they outnumber us. It helps that Hugo and Lulu were dodging like champs, and none of them went after Joe.  Seriously.  Lulu, when did you get so good at this?  Who are you and what have you done with our dweeb?  He even got the killing blow on the last of them.   "Ooohhh... Ouch...Even lions are known to flee If danger's reward comes uneasily!"  : "Or a veteran Duck Fighter!"Joe, you're probably the only Duck fighter.  It should be noted that Guillaume makes the best faces. : "Uh, uh, uh, Melviillllle..." : "You can do it, Melville! Captain of the Saint Loa Knights and Swordsman of Rage! Prepare to meet your maker, old man!" And with that, we have our first duel of the game.  The options at the top are attack, defend, and deathblow. It generally works as a rock-paper-scissors game. Attack beats defend (kind of), defend beats deathblow, and deathblow beats attack. The big rule is NEVER let them defend when you deathblow. Your opponents will give a quick bit of banter before each round, and you can usually judge what they're going to do from what they say. I say "usually" because Guillaume is a liar. When he says "I'll show you my deathblow attack!!" it actually means he's going to defend.  At the bottom there's a duel gauge, which shows what your HP is. Keep a close watch on your HP if you know a duel is coming up, since you'll start out with the same about of HP in a duel as you had before it. Down to 40 HP? Better hope you're really lucky with what your opponent decides to do. The arrow on the gauge will shift based on who is winning the rounds, but doesn't necessarily correspond with who is actually winning. : "Let's start with this..." Guillaume readies an attack.  He lunges forward, but Melville side-steps it,  And retaliates with a deathblow!  It knocks off a single hit point. Hope you liked that, because it's the only one you're getting during this duel. It's not possible to win. I tried to see if it was by savestating like crazy, and it's not. You can win as many rounds as you like, but his HP won't fall any lower. Interestingly, if the duel goes on long enough, Guillaume will become berserked.  Melville goes down in a single shot. : "Woo-hoo!" : "Ho ho ho. It appears I've beaten a knight! Now how shall I finish this...": Hey, pig-face!" The cavalry has arrived! : "Huh? Huuh? Huuuuh? Oi!" : "Hee hee hee.": "Egad! Wh-wha... when did... but how!": "Every knight knows how to work a level. 'Ho ho ho'!" : "Oi-oi-oiiiii! Heeeelp! Save meeeeee!"He runs off. : "Hey! Stop, thief!": "Lulu, let us see to Melville first."Alanis and Elliot run over, Hugo and the others coming up closely behind. : "Melville, Melville! Can you speak?"He rolls over.  He sits up, before continuing.  : "I-I'm sorry. I lost. I thought I could protect you... But you all protected me.": "What are you saying, Melville? You did protect us. And me!": "S-she's right. Melville, you're a hero. You even made me feel less scared."Truly a feat. : "This is a victory for the three of us, the Saint Loa Knights. Victory!": "Yeah! Now, Swordsman of Rage and Knight Captain Melville, let's go find that ship!" : "What a beautiful view!": "Me-Melville, lo-look!": "There's your ship.": "............ I can hardly believe it...": "Mellville, it's true! Just like your father said.": "Yeah... Just like he said...": "We'll walk proudly into Vinay del Zexay and tell everyone about this ship!": "............ Yeah... The worst part was doubting my own father... I was starting to think there was no ship... I knew he was telling the truth... I knew it. But, it started to sound... Well, not so true. What a relief...": "Hey, you know he wouldn't do that. He's your father!": "True, true. And a great treasure hunter, too!": "I guess.": "Next time, don't guess! Heeheehee!": "Hahahaha!": "Hahahahaha!" : "We should get you three back. Your families must be worried."Yeah, they were missing through the night, so. : "Probably. At first they'll be too angry to listen to your story.": "Kwa kwa kwa! Wise words from such a young one! Let's be off!" Seriously, Lulu, since when did you become competent??  : "We'll walk you home, but first let's say our goodbyes here.": "Thank you for everything. Thank you Hugo, Lulu, and you too, Mr. Duck.": "............": "Goodbye.": " 'Goodbyes' again... Well, I hope you get back to Grassland safely." : "Alanis... When do you leave here?"The jig is up, young lady! : "Huh?": "You have to leave because of your father, right?" : "You knew?": "Well, we found out. Why didn't you tell us?": "I-I'm so sorry... It was too sad for me to think about...": "How could you be sad, brave Silver Maiden Alanis?": "Melville...": "Don't worry, Alanis. The Saint Loa Knights are immortal! Wherever each of us goes, the strength of the others goes too. Friends forever. Right?": "Melville... Thanks..." Oh god, what happened here.   : "Saint Loa Knigts, Captain and Swordsman of Rage, Melville!"  : "Saint Loa Knights, Sub-Captain and Silver Maiden, Alanis! Together we are...": "... the Saint Loa Knights...": "... The Three Knights of Zexen!"  : "Forever!": "But someday you'll come back, right? When you do, I'll be eating beans much faster!": "I'll look forward to it. Now, I-I'm so happy. I didn't think I'd ever have friends as good as you. I'll never be lonely again."The trio leave the party, and we're left with a short, final scene by the inn to wrap it up.  : "Yeah. But it turned out fine in the end. Those three sure are close friends. I'm glad we're like that too.": "... Yes. Me too." Next time, we return to the plot! yokaiy fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jan 20, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 23:59
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Well, that was stupid long. It wasn't quite long enough to have split into two updates though. I'll try and make them shorter from here on out. On that note, did you know there's a character limit in posting here as well? I was a mere 13000 or so shy of it. Yeah... gonna... make these shorter... Haha...
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Jan 18, 2013 00:11
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Daw. Well, that was an enjoyable sidequest.
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Jan 18, 2013 00:34
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yokaiy posted:Well, that was stupid long. It wasn't quite long enough to have split into two updates though. I'll try and make them shorter from here on out. So we now know there is a smile limit and a character limit. Educational LP this is. You've now reached as far as I got in my one attempt of this game. I may consider playing it again.
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Jan 18, 2013 01:29
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Holy poo poo. I had no idea this sidequest existed. I don't think I've forgotten, I think I've never done this. I can't believe I missed such a chunk of gameplay--and with this party at that.
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Jan 18, 2013 01:42
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FeyerbrandX posted:So we now know there is a smile limit and a character limit. Educational LP this is. Learn something every day. If my LP makes you consider replaying this game, I will consider everything I've done so far (and will do) a success. If you don't, though, you can at least be sure I'll make it all the way through. RentCavalier posted:Holy poo poo. Really? Huh. I'm not sure how you missed it, but I'm pretty happy that I was able to show you something new.
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Jan 18, 2013 04:59
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I remember playing around with this Guillaume duel once, trying to figure out if there was actually a pattern to his callouts (and they were merely mixed up since he's a lying liar who lies) or if the game randomized it. Sadly I don't remember which it was. I do however remember the fight lasting long enough that he berserked and I think I just got bored and intentionally lost, so probably it's the former. Likely they just did the duel as normal then jumbled the callouts and attacks to create something random. Given he's going to OHKO Melville anyway, a lot of players probably don't realize he's rigged to only take that one or two damage before becoming invincible. Anyway, the game actually does treat the sidequest here as the two days its portrayed. Normally you'd need to rest at the inn three times to trigger the next story event, but with the sidequest it becomes one. I'm wondering if resting at the inn after trying to meet the council causes you to miss the trigger here? I can't really remember. But certainly you could go to the end of the shops here, realize the city is basically a circle, and never pass by the alleyway to trigger the scene with Alanis and Elliot. Since there's a few other recruitables you just cannot get at this time (in fact we can't recruit yet), it's reasonable to see the confrontation between Melville and Guillaume and think it's just a hook for a later chapter. Never put that together with the sirens. It... explains a whole loving lot. Lulu's an odd character. He'll never really be great, his Swing skill isn't high enough to get that many attacks out of a 1H Sword (despite having the same knife-thing as Hugo, mechanically he uses a 1H Sword where Hugo's weapon is unique, slightly stronger and more importantly lighter than that weapon) and if memory serves he has the generic Karaya magic affinities with like B+ in Earth and Wind and B-C in the proper attack magics, but for right now when raw stats matter more than half-developed skills he's really quite decent, dodgy and enough damage to not be completely irrelevant.
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Jan 18, 2013 07:12
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If you keep missing caps, you may want to record with FRAPS and take your screencaps with avspmod or something.
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Jan 18, 2013 08:43
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CmdrKing posted:I remember playing around with this Guillaume duel once, trying to figure out if there was actually a pattern to his callouts (and they were merely mixed up since he's a lying liar who lies) or if the game randomized it. Sadly I don't remember which it was. I do however remember the fight lasting long enough that he berserked and I think I just got bored and intentionally lost, so probably it's the former. Likely they just did the duel as normal then jumbled the callouts and attacks to create something random. Given he's going to OHKO Melville anyway, a lot of players probably don't realize he's rigged to only take that one or two damage before becoming invincible. I think there's some logic to his shouts, actually, because they're consistent at the very least. When he yells out "I'mma punch you in the baby-maker" or whatever and it actually means defend, he will always defend when he says that. There are a LOT of shouts, though, and some of them are pretty similar. Not just for Guillaume, either. So it can be kind of hard to differentiate between "I will kill you" meaning attack and "I will kill you!" meaning deathblow. Melville can survive a few hits if they happen to be an attack that he defends, but he'll still go down very quickly. I've never tried breaking the cutscene... I still have a save state from before I started the quest, maybe I'll try it out and tell you how it goes. (If I don't forget) I guess it's not too hard to miss Alanis and Elliot, now that I think about it. You have to go to the way end of the southern road to trigger the scene, so if you stop near the end and don't go all the way down you might not see it. Lulu's sudden ability to dodge things is pretty great, yeah. He still doesn't have the HP or defense to fall back on, though. The bandits managed to hit him twice or so, and that took out most of his HP. I think Lulu and Hugo have the same magic affinities, so that sounds about right. Xander77 posted:If you keep missing caps, you may want to record with FRAPS and take your screencaps with avspmod or something. I've heard FRAPS can cause things to go even slower, though? Not sure my laptop (or I) can handle it going much slower. I think I'm getting a bit better with getting caps when I need them, though. Didn't miss any in this last update.  Now the only real problem is cutting my updates so they're not as awkwardly long. If you think I'd really benefit from using FRAPS, I can give it a shot I guess.Ideally I'd be able to get that thing that let's you capture directly from the actual console/TV, but I am poor.
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Jan 18, 2013 17:05
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Shiki Dan posted:You constantly have to grind for SOMEthing (be it levels, potch, or SP) if you want to bring characters up to speed. In a series known for being as anti-grinding as possible. You also have a ton of characters that you are required to use at some point of another. I think there's seriously like at least 30 characters in the game who are required to be in your battle party at one point or another; all of which will probably need at least some training, skills, armor, and weapon sharpening. I actually found the catch-up leveling to be relatively easy in this game. I ended up getting a dog to about level 50 pretty much accidentally. yokaiy posted:However, Suikoden has a nice treat for dragging low level characters into areas they have no right to be in. Scaled experience. If they can just survive a few battles, Alanis and Melville will be able to catch up to the others pretty easily. Case in point, Melville got nearly four levels in that one battle. Maybe I just have low standards, but I thought the scaled experience was one of this game's best features. In conclusion: yokaiy posted:Suikoden leveling.
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Jan 20, 2013 05:52
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What he's really complaining about is the combination of characters needing skills as well as levels to perform, and that characters now have effectively 0 defense if you don't give them armor. The thing is, the latter shouldn't be an issue if you just want to try out new people; the game routinely shoves new characters at you whose armor you can steel, and if you're just experimenting you strip the characters you kicked out of the party. Sure, you need cash for weapon forging, but that's every Suikoden and III is better than some (*ahem*hellosuikodeniv) in that matter. Skills can be a concern, but if you understand the skill system (And let's be fair, the game doesn't indicate very well that the most critical and important skill in the game is Swing for physical fighters) the default skill points the character starts with will get you started on their key skills (Swing and Heavy Damage for fighters, [Element] Magic for mages, Shield Defense in addition to Armor Defense for any character who has it). If memory serves, what the game actually does is give each enemy formation a set amount of skill points it drops and divides that among active characters, so if you were especially daring you could have just your main and characters you need to level and speed the process. More importantly any character you're absolutely required to use is forced quite regularly (unless I'm seriously forgetting someone), meaning that you shouldn't be in a situation where a character is shoved in your party late in the game and they have no real skill training. Any grinding is really for characters you haven't used and want to try out, and while the process could certainly be streamlined given that the required characters are generally solid and, thanks to the game's main conceit, there's plenty to choose from it's really just not an issue. At least, I never had one.
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Jan 20, 2013 06:43
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Okay, that makes more sense to me. I envy your ability to comprehend others and be coherent at the same time.  The only characters I can think of that come into play while under leveled are the five Zexen Knights other than Chris, and that is pretty much at the endgame. They just don't get enough playtime with me to have them be any use in the final stretch, and I have enough other options to not bother with grinding, training, sharpening, etc. for them. Granted, they aren't necessary at that point in the game, but it would be kind of nice and sentimental to have them there (at least for one go-round; mixing up parties is a lot of fun!). Zosephine fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jan 20, 2013 |
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Jan 20, 2013 07:06
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Thomas and Cecile get pretty screwed as well, but the plot accounts for that by pairing their weak butts up with a huge badass. And then having them not really do any fighting anyway.
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Jan 20, 2013 07:11
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yokaiy posted:Thomas and Cecile get pretty screwed as well, but the plot accounts for that by pairing their weak butts up with a huge badass. And then having them not really do any fighting anyway. Thomas and Cecile are surprisingly good characters. Their skills are incredibly expensive but Thomas gets very close to capping swing while Cecile gets really high shield and armor defense. But you're right that Juan makes things so much easier for them.
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Jan 20, 2013 07:18
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I was totally talking about Sasarai.  But yeah, that guy too.Suddenly spoiler tags everywhere.
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Jan 20, 2013 07:23
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Testekill posted:But you're right that Juan makes things so much easier for them. Not to mention if you recruit Augustine with Thomas. I love that guy.
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Jan 20, 2013 07:25
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