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yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!
Hugo Chapter 1.7 - Secret Tunnel

Last time, we were fleeing from the po-po.



Running straight through the night towards the forest must have paid off for our boys, here, as it is both daytime and minus several Zexen Knights.

: "But we're still on Zexen land. Stay sharp."



: "Thanks to Fubar, we made it."

: "Yeah, thanks."

: "Kuuee!"

: "How did you find us? Were you looking for us?"

: "I bet he was looking for food, not us."



Fubar does not approve of that accusation, Joe. He starts stomping towards Joe, who backs up in response.

: "Quack, quack, quack! All right already, Fubar!"

: "Kuuee!"

"Yeah, that's what I THOUGHT. :colbert:"

: "Hehehe."



: "Let's get a move on! What if what those knights said is true?"

: "If it is, we may already be at war again."

You know, I think we were never out of war, actually. That was just the desired course of action on both sides.

: "So what? I'm not afraid of any ironhead! Hmph!"



So here we are, back in the Zexen Forest. It hasn't really changed much.



We're a little better at murdering the local wildlife now, though.

We pick up some medicines for our slaughter, but nothing else of interest happens.



Unfortunately, the only way to get back to the Grasslands is through Brass Castle. Let's just hope that our time here is as short as possible, so those knights don't catch up to us.



Interestingly enough, no one's dialogue has changed, even after the supposed "Grassland attack" that Leo mentioned.





: "Looks like word hasn't reached here. Puzzling. If we were at war, the fort would be fully defended. But it's not."

: "Agreed."

Hugo nods.

: "Agreed, agreed."

Lulu also nods.



Hugo takes a moment to glance towards Lulu. It's an interesting touch.

: "Don't attract attention. Just act naturally and walk slowly."

: "Right."

Hugo nods again.

: "Right, right."



: "Here we go."





Fubar nonchalantly follows them.



The group pauses to address this.

: "Fubar! You couldn't possibly walk slow enough to avoid attention."

: "Kuuuee!"

: "See these walls? Fly over them and wait for us. We'll go back through the checkpoint and meet you on the other side."

: "Kuuee!"

: "Move it! Before an enemy sees you!"



Fubar complies, and flies over the castle. Its important to note that Fubar will only let Hugo ride him, because that is the only reason I can think of that is even a remotely reasonable excuse for why the rest of the group couldn't just fly over on him.



Nothing of note happening in here at the moment, so I'm pretty much just going to skip it. It's worth noting that we can go into buildings in this part of the castle (but only this part).



So I decide to pop in on the magic tutor and raise Joe's Water Magic skill. This'll make him heal a bit faster, and brings us one step closer to his magic healing more than medicines do. Hugo and Lulu are fine with their magic as-is, though, so I save their skill points for the next time we can visit a bujutsu teacher.

After, we continue to the middle section, where we're hit with a cutscene.



It seems that they've beefed up security enough to enforce the checkpoint, at the very least.



: "Slow... slow... not yet??"

Lulu apparently hasn't mastered the poker face yet.

: "Lulu, quiet."

: "Ok, I know!"



: "Uh-oh. I'm not so sure about this."



Joe whacks him from behind.

: "Ouch. Sergeant, knock it off!"

: "You're being too noisy and acting totally unnatural. We could be found out any minute now!"

: "You always worry about--"



: "Hmph."



Uh-oh.

: "They must have slipped through."

: "So it's up to the army now."



: "Don't bet on it."





Yeah, this is going well.

: "Hail, Sir Knights! Please forgive my intrusion, but are you the famous Six Zexen Knights? Sir Leo and Sir Percival?"

No, dammit, they had almost passed us!

The man in front of us stops the knights as they're passing.

: "Aye, we are. What of it?"











Oops.

: "He looks like..."





They make for the mess hall behind them.



: "Percival, you never told me you had a sixth sense."

: "Even so, you don't seem very keen on the idea."

: "What's there to be happy about?!"



They run after the Grasslanders.







: "Which way?"





Apparently they're not in the kitchen, guys. Try somewhere else.



: "I've never chased anyone this fast."

: "......"



The two of them turn and leave to search the rest of the castle. And our boys?







Promptly fall from the oven's ventilation shaft.

: "Kwoorrgh."

That is pretty much the best sound effect I've ever heard.

: "Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch."

: "Get... Off..."

: "That hurt!"

: "You're not much of a cushion yourself."

: I'll be squished like a grape if you don't..."





: "Hold on now."

The two try and get off of Hugo.





However, the floor gives way under them.



They then find themselves in an underground passage.



: "It looks like a passageway out of the fort. It must be very old if those knights didn't know about it."

: "So if we get past there, we can get away?"

: "Well, it's the only unguarded route that we know about."



The underground pass is unguarded, as Joe said, but it is hardly safe.



It's full of Banshees, spiders (that actually manage to poison properly, this time around), and this new enemy called Megawaki. The Megawaki are one of the series staples, along with Blade Bunnies and Furrflies.



They like to shoot lasers.



They also like to use their claws, though it's not as accurate. If that weren't bad enough, they can take a LOT of hits.



The Banshees are even annoying this time around. Especially when things like this happen.



The Arachnavores haven't changed much.



The pass isn't much to look at, but it's supposed to be some forgotten hallway so I can't fault them for it. There's also no mini-map in this are.

It doesn't take us too long to get through, though.



: "This looks like an exit."

: "Then can we go back to Grassland?"

: "It might lead back in the direction of Vinay del Zexay."

: "Good point. It probably does. Wouldn't that be great..."



: "It's our only chance. Let's take it."

: "Ready."



The scene fades as they emerge from the tunnel.



: "Phew! Fresh air! That tunnel reeks!"

Lulu starts running around wildly in the background, excited to be back in open air.

: "They overlooked it during spring cleaning."



: "So which way did we end up, toward Grassland or Zexen?"

I went with this cap because Lulu is on-screen running around. He runs on and off screen in the background.

A shriek from the skies answers that question for us.





: "Fubar!"

The three run over to greet the griffon.

: "Kuuuueeee!"

He's excited to see us, too.

: "If Fubar is here, then we're..."



: "Yes, we must return, and quickly. Something's definitely wrong."





We head for the plains.

yokaiy fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Apr 13, 2013

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Veyrall
Apr 23, 2010

The greatest poet this
side of the cyberpocalypse
God, Lulu is Spaz Incarnate. Here's to hoping he grows up and stops being a jitterbug, really soon.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

I don't think it was a good idea to send a kid like Lulu on a sensitive diplomatic mission to the enemy. That's an accident waiting to happen.

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

Has Lulu been responsible for everything going wrong for the group? Let's bench him and bench him quickly.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!
Hahaha. I don't think everything has been Lulu's fault. Unfortunately, as I said, we don't get to choose party members (or, at the very least, we don't get to bench party members, the option to add some if there's room is available once we can recruit), so Lulu's gonna be a part of our merry band for a while.

He makes a pretty good foil to Joe and Hugo, at least.

e: Causing issues hasn't been a problem, really, but making them worse? Antagonizing the Zexen Knights, for example, was pretty much all Lulu. Louis bumping into him was mostly because Lulu was a huge derp that didn't get out of the way, so I guess we can blame him for that spat of racism that ensued. Other than that, he's just been mostly an antsy kid, yeah.

In response to VVV

yokaiy fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jan 25, 2013

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Which problems has Lulu actually caused? He's a bit antsy but I don't think he's been an issue.

Genaro
Sep 22, 2011
Lulu hasn't actually directly caused many problems, but he certainly hasn't really been too helpful (outside of being a meatshield/stabber of things). Pretty much what Yokaiy was saying.

I think that he was mostly allowed to go since this mission was really just being a mailman -- drop off a letter, and if they've got a reply, bring that back.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!
Their trip to Zexen was certainly supposed to be much less involved and dangerous than it ended up being, for sure. If the trip had been as simple as it was intended, Lulu wouldn't have been much of a liability. At least he's getting to see the world outside his village...

Starting on the next part shortly, but it might not be up for a couple days. I didn't have a chance to do anything on it this weekend because I was participating in the Global Game Jam, sorry about that.

It was really fun by the way.

Anyway we're nearing the end of Hugo's first chapter, so get ready. :)

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!
Hugo Chapter 1.8 - The Trees, Like Torches, Blazed With Light



The plains have been relit for a dusk setting, which is actually quite nice to look at.

It gives you a good sense of time for this part. :)



There's a new enemy around this time, the Dark Hare. It's pretty small, behind the Arachnavores. Looks innocent enough, I guess. Just a palette swap of the Blade Bunnies with a weird horn.



Wrong. rear end in a top hat's a caster.



Worse, they cast lightning magic. It's probably the most effective magic type in this game. Hurts like hell. It's pretty much a OHKO for all of our boys, at this point. Especially Lulu. (This hit and felled Lulu by the way.) These things should always be your first target.



They drop screws, though, which we'll need later. Of course, we'll only need one, but we'll be getting them fairly frequently anyway. For now, you can either keep it in mind or forget about it.



Oh, that doesn't look good...





: "Hurry and stay on guard, Hugo, Lulu!"

We rush through the plains towards Karaya Village.



Night has fallen, and the village is just around the corner, but that smoke doesn't look good at all.

: "I know that color of smoke. But, how?! Our village is burning!"

: "Disaster has struck!"



Lulu, enraged, runs off towards the village.



Joe follows after him.

: "Zexens! What about my message?!"

This is the opposite of a peace treaty!!



It's worth noting that if you open the menu after that scene, Lulu and Joe will have both left the party.

We run towards the village after our companions.



Hugo catches up to Joe mourning a Karayan man on the side of the road. He's already dead, but the corpse is still fresh.

: "This wound is from a sword.The enemy could still be here! Be ready for anything!"

Joe runs off again, and we follow him to...



Oh.



Oh no.



: "This village... We'll be better off with it gone."



No.



No, no, no. No, Lulu, stop.



Lulu, no.



N--...













: "Lulu!"





--Oh...



: "Noooooo! Lulu, no!"

Hugo shakes him a bit, but Lulu doesn't move.









: "Why?! I demand to know why!"

: "I did not know a child was attacking me."

Hugo puts Lulu down and reaches for his knife.

: "The truce was a lie. It was a lie to make this easier for you!"

: "No! Not true!"



Joe runs in front of him, blocking him from Chris, and she from Hugo.

: "Sergrant, let me pass!"

: "She is not alone!"



Salome, Roland, and a few other knights ride up to Chris.

: "Let us make haste, Captain. Enemy reinforcements approach."

She nods, and turns to Hugo.

: "I am sorry... child."

They begin to ride away at a slow, somber pace.



He reaches out to them, but his words fall on deaf ears. After a few moments, he drops his arm, defeated.



: "For now, think only of Lulu."



Their mission was a failure. They went to Zexen to bring peace to both nations, only to come back to a rekindled war.

Hadn't the Zexens wanted peace as well?





Karaya Village is gone. Lulu is gone.

Who knows how many perished in the fire.



Lulu is buried with the rest of the dead. Men and women and children alike.

: "For this... the proper rites should be read. The spirits will have to forgive us for now."

: "Kuuuuueeeee!"

The burial was rudimentary, but it would have to do. It was the best the three of them could do alone. They had found no other living souls in that fire.



: "............"

There was nothing to say. Everything was wrong.

: "My mother... his mother... I promised. And I failed."

: "............"



Hugo falls to his knees.

: "Why Lulu? Why now?"

: "............"



: "We were together just yesterday. And I never thought... he would leave. Leave with the wind. Because I..."

Left with the wind and buried in the earth. It wasn't his time yet.



: "?"

: "What makes you think you can protect anyone?! You are skilled at hunting, but what happened here is war. It's childish to presume such invincibility."

Lulu chose to attack that woman. If he'd never pointed a blade at her, he'd still be alive.

That is war.

It's no place for children.



Hugo sits up.

: "Hunting is not war. To die hunting is different than dying at war. If one names an enemy and attacks, as Lulu did, he must expect his own life to be in peril. A warrior accepts this way of death."

Hugo wasn't ready to grow up in this manner. Lulu never got the chance to.

: "When you unsheath your knife for war, your life will be sought too. To live as a warrior, you must agree to live by this cold truth."

Funny, how they'd looked up to the Karayan warriors, not realizing what it meant to actually be one.

: "............"

It's a hard truth, but Hugo knows it's something he can't deny now.



: "You can't stay here forever and mope. Karayan forces won't be coming back. Best to return to my village."

: "Very well."

: "I refuse to walk beside that face. Get up and look like a warrior."



Joe starts to leave.







It takes a while, but Hugo finds strength in his legs enough to move on. It won't be easy, but it has to be done.



He bids farewell to Lulu.

For good.

:smith:

Welp, Lulu is benched forever now. I hope you're happy.

Thanks for that, Zo.

Zosephine
Dec 31, 2012

Even my tail feathers concur.
You're welcome.


This part definitely cemented Joe into place as my favorite character. Lulu and Hugo are both like nephews to him, and he just saw the younger struck down. He can't even hate the person who did it, because he knows she acted on instinct. He's a warrior too.

Joe has to be feeling just as devastated as Hugo, but he sees the tragedy through the lens of years of battle. It was a pointless death that could have been avoided with experience. Doubtless he does not want Hugo to meet a similar fate.

quote:

What makes you think you can protect anyone?! You are skilled at hunting, but what happened here is war. It's childish to presume such invincibility.

Hunting is not war. To die hunting is different than dying at war. If one names an enemy and attacks, as Lulu did, he must expect his own life to be in peril. A warrior accepts this way of death.

This may seem harsh at first, but it's comforting in its own way. Hugo blames himself for Lulu's death, and probably will for his entire life. Hugo is a trained hunter, but this was his first taste of war. As the son of a leading chief of the Grasslands, he will see more death and fighting very soon. Hugo needs to learn now that he cannot blame himself for every death and injury, because when a warrior fights, they know what they're getting into.

Hugo has to grow up. Fast. Joe knows it won't be easy, but drat if he won't try to help.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
The doomed hometown is a staple of RPG's, but I wasn't expecting the game to kill off the little kid character too, and in such a senseless, almost accidental way. Even watching at home, my reaction to seeing Chris on that horse just watching was getting angry and thinking "you bitch!", and I've only seen that village from the three or four minutes spent in it in one update, so Lulu's blind rage was completely believable.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 28, 2013

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

The doomed hometown is a staple of RPG's, but I wasn't expecting the game to kill off the little kid character too, and in such a senseless, almost accidental way.

The beauty of it was that Lulu's death was entirely accidental. Chris wasn't even looking his way, and cut him down entirely on a reflexive instinct.

Zosephine
Dec 31, 2012

Even my tail feathers concur.
It seems to me that this game either twists or flat out ignores many of the classic RPG staples.

Ayana
Jun 29, 2010

Hee-Ho!

Zosephine posted:

It seems to me that this game either twists or flat out ignores many of the classic RPG staples.

It really does. In most games the Zexen Knights would be vilified. Here, Chris is one of the main viewpoint characters, and the game presents her story just as sympathetically as Hugo's. And in doing so, it doesn't make what happened here any better. I kind of like that - just because you can understand why something happened shouldn't make it any less lovely that it did. :(

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

Man, I'd forgotten how depressing as gently caress this bit is. While I do consider Lulu to be a bit of a pain in the rear end, he's a kid that's in a position that he's never been in before. Not to mention his death was, while not entirely avoidable, still didn't have to happen.

Gotta say that the Knights don't come out smelling like roses, especially after Chris' first chapter.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!
An Interlude - The Other Option and the EoC Blurb

You had all decided that Hugo was a rational person the last time I called for votes, and the result of your decision was in the last update.

As a rational person, Hugo questioned Chris about her actions. However, had you decided he was a brash person instead, events would have unfolded a little differently.







Instead of grilling her for answers, he would have attacked her.



And so we would have had our first optional duel.



Like the Guillaume duel, you cannot actually beat her.



You can, however, be winning when it ends.





The duel lasts a total of three turns, during which Chris gets unique dialogue that does not reflect what she chooses to do.



I just really like this screen, actually.



I believe the game compensates for it by usually having her use a normal attack, so that you may safely deathblow her. Not always, though, as you can see above she had defended and I had attacked instead.





After three turns, Joe will jump between the two of them to hold Hugo back.

Salome will ride up between them, as well, blocking Chris and Hugo from each other.







In the non-duel form, Joe was positioned to defend Hugo, but in this form he is facing the other way, to serve as a barrier against Hugo rather than the knights. Salome is much the same; in the other form he would ride in behind her rather than between her and the Grasslanders.



The other knights ride in a little late in this version.







When the knights leave, the scene plays out how it did before.

In the manga, Hugo tries to attack her and Joe holds him back, as per this dialogue choice. However, I think the in-game dialogue hints at him not fighting her being the "correct" choice. Both forms of this scene are interesting, though, and provide some nice insight to the characters.

This marks the end of Hugo's chapter one.

Upon completing a chapter, you are taken back to the character select screen, and may view a short blurb recapping the events of the chapter.

Hugo's end-of-chapter-one blurb looks like so.



Next time, we'll be starting with Chris's chapter one. There is a fair amount of overlap between her chapter one and Hugo's, as you'll see.

djw175
Apr 23, 2012

by zen death robot
Well now I feel bad for why I voted for Hugo to be rational. :smith:

Genaro
Sep 22, 2011
This did feel like it came out of left field when I first played it. You've got your happy funtimes helping out some Zexan kids, and after you get back everything goes to hell. You're chased out of town, you're chased out of your own town, and now you're down one party member. The gamer in me felt some smug satisfaction at not having upgraded Lulu's weapons, and the rest of me kind of glared that part down.

yokaiy posted:


In the manga, Hugo tries to attack her and Joe holds him back, as per this dialogue choice. However, I think the in-game dialogue hints at him not fighting her being the "correct" choice. Both forms of this scene are interesting, though, and provide some nice insight to the characters.

Memory serves, when you play through this from Chris' point of view Hugo doesn't attack, no matter what you choose as Hugo.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Genaro posted:

This did feel like it came out of left field when I first played it. You've got your happy funtimes helping out some Zexan kids, and after you get back everything goes to hell. You're chased out of town, you're chased out of your own town, and now you're down one party member. The gamer in me felt some smug satisfaction at not having upgraded Lulu's weapons, and the rest of me kind of glared that part down.


Memory serves, when you play through this from Chris' point of view Hugo doesn't attack, no matter what you choose as Hugo.


I admit, I knew it was coming before I played the game, because I read the manga first... Only after playing the game did I realize how silly the pacing is in the beginning of the manga.

Lulu's death comes VERY quickly, but I feel like it was necessary to show how unfair and unpredictable war is, as well as to put Hugo on the same footing as the other, already war-weary main characters. To account for Hugo's age, they had to have him grow up quickly.

The abruptness of everything going downhill for Hugo was, I feel, because of a misrepresentation of the state of things before poo poo starts hitting the fan. A bit of racism aside, the beginning of his chapter doesn't feel like two countries at war. It's actually very laid-back, all things considered. The Zexens and Grasslanders may have been both gunning for a peace treaty, but they were still at war.

Regarding your spoiler, the game does whatever decisions have been already made, I think. So, if we had chosen to attack Chris, Hugo would attack her in her chapter as well. For duels and such, however, they skip them. So Hugo would attack Chris, but the game would skip to Salome and Joe running between them. If we'd played through Chris first, I think it would have defaulted to the non-duel choice (when applicable), but I'm not sure. I've always started with Hugo.

Eruza
Sep 4, 2011

yokaiy posted:


The abruptness of everything going downhill for Hugo was, I feel, because of a misrepresentation of the state of things before poo poo starts hitting the fan. A bit of racism aside, the beginning of his chapter doesn't feel like two countries at war. It's actually very laid-back, all things considered. The Zexens and Grasslanders may have been both gunning for a peace treaty, but they were still at war.


It really didn't feel like they were at war to me when I first played the game either, although that was mostly because Grasslanders could still travel to Vinay del Zexay through Brass Castle this whole time as we've seen. I can't remember exactly what I was thinking when I saw this part for the first time, but I honestly didn't expect Lulu to die. It definitely took me by surprise, and seeing Hugo so sad like that was really effective, for me at least.

Great LP by the way. Suikoden III is my favorite too, although that may be because of nostalgia since that was the game that got me into the series. Regardless of its weaknesses, I do think that scenes like this is definitely where Suikoden III shines.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!
I'll start working on the new update as soon as I can, but I haven't had a chance to play since the last update, so it might take a bit. I don't know. I've come to the conclusion that I can't judge how long it takes me to do anything anymore, so I've more or less stopped attempting to put an ETA on anything unless it's a general ballpark-range.

But that's neither here nor there.

So, while I'm being slow, and to try and get some discussion going (because I love reading what people are thinking), who do you guys like best of our bundle of characters so far? We're not very far in yet, but we've met a fair number of people already. What are your thoughts on them? Favorite? Least favorite? Anything you really feel like commenting on?

djw175
Apr 23, 2012

by zen death robot
Probably Sergeant Joe.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
My opinion is skewed since I seem to be in the minority of posters who actually finished this game and thus I really don't want to dive into details and spoil anything for anyone.

I will say that I have a dislike for most of the Hugo arc characters.
My exceptions are Fubar who's just "alright" (mainly because he doesn't have the annoying disadvantage of taking up two character slots like the monsters in Suiko 2 did) and Sgt. Joe who's cool but unfortunately in terms of gameplay falls off pretty quickly in usefulness.
There's also a wonderful Bitch (in the best ways :allears:) coming up but I can't remember off the top of my head if she's Hugo arc "exclusive" or not.
I like the concept of the Grasslanders and their unique culture, but personality-wise and gameplay-wise they mostly seem underdeveloped in this game. The Karayans are pretty dull (except for the one that'll be featured in a NON-Hugo arc), the Lizard clan is just kinda there (though they get a funny scene later), and the Ducks are kinda chill but don't get to do too much.
Since I played Chris first, I wasn't exactly overcome with grief when some random kid got cut down and then Lulu didn't do much to endear me to him when I did play Hugo's chapter.

Wrestlepig
Feb 25, 2011

my mum says im cool

Toilet Rascal
The thing about dramatic tension is that it really doesn't mix with giant talking war ducks.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

djw175 posted:

Probably Sergeant Joe.

I think this is a common opinion. Joe is one of my favorites, and I know that he is the favorite for both Zosephine and TheAsterite (who I promise will crawl out from under his rock to help with commentary soon).

Shiki Dan posted:

My opinion is skewed since I seem to be in the minority of posters who actually finished this game and thus I really don't want to dive into details and spoil anything for anyone.

I will say that I have a dislike for most of the Hugo arc characters.
My exceptions are Fubar who's just "alright" (mainly because he doesn't have the annoying disadvantage of taking up two character slots like the monsters in Suiko 2 did) and Sgt. Joe who's cool but unfortunately in terms of gameplay falls off pretty quickly in usefulness.
There's also a wonderful Bitch (in the best ways :allears:) coming up but I can't remember off the top of my head if she's Hugo arc "exclusive" or not.
I like the concept of the Grasslanders and their unique culture, but personality-wise and gameplay-wise they mostly seem underdeveloped in this game. The Karayans are pretty dull (except for the one that'll be featured in a NON-Hugo arc), the Lizard clan is just kinda there (though they get a funny scene later), and the Ducks are kinda chill but don't get to do too much.
Since I played Chris first, I wasn't exactly overcome with grief when some random kid got cut down and then Lulu didn't do much to endear me to him when I did play Hugo's chapter.

Really? I kept Joe in my party all the way through the game, and he always seemed to pull his weight just fine.

I think I know exactly who you're talking about, and yes, she is awesome. :allears: We'll see her first in Hugo's next chapter, and I think she stays primarily in his arc, if not entirely. She will probably be another victim of my character-rants.

I believe the game favors starting with Hugo for that exact reason. If you know Lulu's gonna die because you played Chris first, it sort of loses all drama. A lot of the feel-factor in his death is how suddenly it comes. Also, the character select starts with Hugo selected, so there's that too.

Psalmanazar posted:

The thing about dramatic tension is that it really doesn't mix with giant talking war ducks.

There may be some truth in this.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

He is surprisingly grim and/or badass for a creature that looks so ridiculous...

And yet, that doesn't stop him from looking ridiculous.

Maybe they should have made them some kinda hawkmen instead of ducks.

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Speedball posted:

He is surprisingly grim and/or badass for a creature that looks so ridiculous...

And yet, that doesn't stop him from looking ridiculous.

Maybe they should have made them some kinda hawkmen instead of ducks.

He's just a King of Dragon Pass duck.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Speedball posted:

He is surprisingly grim and/or badass for a creature that looks so ridiculous...

And yet, that doesn't stop him from looking ridiculous.

Maybe they should have made them some kinda hawkmen instead of ducks.

Now I'm just imagining him being pretty much Quetzal from Animal Crossing with a poleaxe.



... This doesn't feel any less silly.

Zosephine
Dec 31, 2012

Even my tail feathers concur.

yokaiy posted:

I think this is a common opinion. Joe is one of my favorites, and I know that he is the favorite for both Zosephine and TheAsterite (who I promise will crawl out from under his rock to help with commentary soon).

Joe is definitely my favorite, but once we get out of Hugo's chapter/further on in the story there are other characters I like almost as much.

Most of them are the weird ones.

CmdrKing
Oct 14, 2012

Maybe if I called it 'Interpretive Stabbing'...
The weird ones are always best. I greatly look forward to recruitment opening up and hitting Iksay village.

Anyway, one of the things Suikoden III does much more noticeably than the rest of the series(due to the skill system) is have racial archetypes. That is, characters of the same race/nationality will tend to have fairly similar base stats, equipment options and skills, with each having minor variations to differentiate them from their peers. So other Karayans we get will be able to use light armor, hats, have above average wind and earth magic and tend towards being a bit frail but dodgey and speedy. Other Ducks we encounter will have medium armor, the duck halberd, and have fairly rounded stats with an emphasis on water magic. Makes sense right, game has like 70 playable characters to make. Here's the interesting part, with what people have said in the thread. Of the characters designed this way, the nationality with the most interesting and highest number of good usable characters? Ducks. The Zexans have their strengths but in general I'd definitely rather stick all the Ducks in my party than all the Zexans.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

Joe is great, but I like Lucia a lot, too. More JRPG leads need to have badass not-dead parents.

Speaking of Joe, nice avatar you got there. :ducksiren:

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

CmdrKing posted:

The weird ones are always best. I greatly look forward to recruitment opening up and hitting Iksay village.

Anyway, one of the things Suikoden III does much more noticeably than the rest of the series(due to the skill system) is have racial archetypes. That is, characters of the same race/nationality will tend to have fairly similar base stats, equipment options and skills, with each having minor variations to differentiate them from their peers. So other Karayans we get will be able to use light armor, hats, have above average wind and earth magic and tend towards being a bit frail but dodgey and speedy. Other Ducks we encounter will have medium armor, the duck halberd, and have fairly rounded stats with an emphasis on water magic. Makes sense right, game has like 70 playable characters to make. Here's the interesting part, with what people have said in the thread. Of the characters designed this way, the nationality with the most interesting and highest number of good usable characters? Ducks. The Zexans have their strengths but in general I'd definitely rather stick all the Ducks in my party than all the Zexans.

Dude, Ducks are amazing. But yeah, I know what you mean. The quick-fragile characters are usually my go-to types to play with in games, but then Joe happened. :allears: Hugo remains one of my battle favorites throughout the game, though.

PS. There are 113 playable characters in this game. :ssh:

vilkacis posted:

Joe is great, but I like Lucia a lot, too. More JRPG leads need to have badass not-dead parents.

Speaking of Joe, nice avatar you got there. :ducksiren:

Even better, BOTH of Hugo's parents may be alive. It's never said exactly who it is, but if my theory is correct, then his dad is very much alive in this game. And very much a badass.

Thanks. A friend of mine, noting I was a goon at the Global Game Jam, promised to buy me an avatar if our game won one of the awards at our jam site. And yeah.

Quack.

:wotwot:

CmdrKing
Oct 14, 2012

Maybe if I called it 'Interpretive Stabbing'...
I was just thinking combat PCs. Which there are *check* 78 of including Lulu, albeit some of those don't really count.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

CmdrKing posted:

I was just thinking combat PCs. Which there are *check* 78 of including Lulu, albeit some of those don't really count.

Oh, whoops. I'm stupid. :blush:



So, there's another interesting dialogue choice pretty early on in Chris's first chapter. As both halves of it are interesting, I'm putting it to a vote. This one doesn't have an overlap point, though, so it's not terribly important. It's also shorter than the other one we had.

The scene goes something like this:

Some dude: BLAH BLAH BLAH FLOWERY SPEECH FOREVER.
Chris:
------>What.

------>Okay, cool.


Which do you want her to say? Bold your votes!

e: Like last time, voting will end shortly before I post the next update. That'll be some time in the next day or two.

yokaiy fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Jan 31, 2013

djw175
Apr 23, 2012

by zen death robot
Wait, what?

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

What.


And that's actually my reaction as I do not remember this at all.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
Chris doesn't seem like the "loads of patience" type. What?

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Wasn't there, years ago, a Comedy Goldmine image of Suikoden III where Chris is talking to a Grasslander (one of the lizard guys we see in the intro, I believe) and it was photoshopped so the dialogue he gave was something like "You dishonor me with your presence, feeble human!" Beneath it was "Press A to tear out his still-beating heart and devour it."

Anyway, I vote What?

Verbose
Apr 23, 2006

Mike believed in the shooting star, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then,but that's no matter. Tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther... and then one fine morning-
So we beat on, subs against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
yokaiy you aren't a Kuuenbu alt account are you?

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Wrestlepig
Feb 25, 2011

my mum says im cool

Toilet Rascal
Hopefully we find out after he's done, I really want to see what the duck is about.

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