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I figure you can't go wrong with Queen, the band or the character! v vAnd it seemed topical.
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May 27, 2014 18:13
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Is there something from the manga that explains why Hugo appears to be attacking Hallec in the opening cinematic? I was always curious about that but never found any reason why he'd be going after him.
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Jun 10, 2014 05:17
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Poque posted:Is there something from the manga that explains why Hugo appears to be attacking Hallec in the opening cinematic? I was always curious about that but never found any reason why he'd be going after him. Nothing like that is in the manga. The closest is Hugo drawing his weapon against Hallec when they first meet since Hallec was catching one of the ducks for dinner.
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Jun 10, 2014 05:25
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The opening cinematic is really pretty but has some blatant lies/misrepresentations/stuff that never happens. The one you mention is the biggest one though!
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Jun 11, 2014 00:34
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It's possible there's an enemy between them and you just can't see it from the perspective of the camera, but I wasn't sure if there was something different that I was missing.
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Jun 11, 2014 00:44
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Podima posted:The opening cinematic is really pretty but has some blatant lies/misrepresentations/stuff that never happens. The one you mention is the biggest one though! Well it beats an opening that's full of spoilers. Trailers also have a nasty habit of doing that  
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Jun 11, 2014 01:02
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The Suikoden 1 opening was cool in that it had in-battle clips of stuff like Flik, Odessa, and Humphrey fighting soldiers in Rockland. I wish I knew who was in charge of having that take up 20-25 seconds of the attract movie. Certainly a cool little touch, though.
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Jun 11, 2014 04:01
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Wow. Looking it up, the difference between how adequate the Japanese opening movie and how terrible the English one is astounding.
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Jun 11, 2014 04:18
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Xander77 posted:Wow. Looking it up, the difference between how adequate the Japanese opening movie and how terrible the English one is astounding. You mean the Sega Saturn version right?
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Jun 11, 2014 04:31
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Testekill posted:You mean the Sega Saturn version right?
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Jun 11, 2014 04:36
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Huh. You know, I think this is the first time I've actually seen the Japanese opening for that game. I had no idea they were different. Though it's not actually surprising, given the English vs Japanese box art for it. Did the Saturn have yet another variation that I can't find? As a side note, sorry this update is taking forever. I had to go back and lose a fight that I'd won to avoid some dialogue. Also haven't really had a free weekend to work on it. 
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Jun 11, 2014 04:44
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To clarify, the PS1 opening is this, the Saturn one is this. I remember the Saturn version having a decent bit of weird stuff added to it, like having a pet cat you could hit or something. 
Sivek fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 04:54
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Chapter 4.2 - Fire Here we go.  The three stand before Sana pensively, in silence.  Hugo breaks from her gaze.      Behold, the staff.   : "So can you please lend me... Can you please let me have the power?" He pays his respects, reaching for the staff.   : "You will follow Iroh as the new Flame Champion, Hugo. To fulfill his last request, I will open the door to the True Rune. Behind it, a challenge awaits you. By passing this test, you will prove your ability to bear the Rune's responsibilities.": "All right." Yes. This is an excellent party. : "Well then, let me guide you. Are you ready?"Hugo nods. : "Yes.": "Well then, please follow me."   Hugo nods.    Hugo looks very small next to the True Rune, engraved in the floor. : "Huh?" Suddenly, the ground rumbles beneath him.      Why, yes. That is a dragon.  Sorry, I just really liked this transition shot for some reason.  Are you ready to fight the True Fire Rune?  Because that's what we're doing.  The boss is actually called "FireRIncar," as they didn't have the space to fit "Fire Rune Incarnation." Generally, I think a party of only three isn't what you would want to face the wrath of a True Rune with, but as one of them is Geddoe and he's packing the True Lightning Rune, this fight won't actually be too bad. As such, I'm not looking forward to this fight with him as the Flame Champion.  Well, anyway, let's get this started.  Hugo is the fastest of the group, so he dashes ahead for a three-hit combo, because he can do that now.  Chris follows up with two strikes of her own.  He might not be as fast as his companions, but Geddoe is still quick enough to finish chanting before the Fire Rune gets to attack.   True Lightning says "hi."      True Fire breathes flames at us so hard that it rips holes in the earth and causes fire-nadoes to burst from the crust.  And yet, it isn't as powerful as it looks. That's still an uncomfortable amount of damage for a group sitting on just over 300HP, but we've seen worse from Yuber on a regular basis.  Also, I just realized that our caster has the highest HP here, and he's the lowest level. How did that happen?  Hugo is still the fastest, and manages another 3-hit attack before Geddoe can step in.    Since he's doing the level three cast this time, though, he can finish casting before Chris gets to move.  And Chris pokes at it for the final attack.  It screams in agony.  And then explodes.  : "I did it. Now, I have proven myself."    Sana approaches.   They begin to follow Sana out.   : "I have no idea why I was chosen as the new bearer of the True Fire Rune..."Because you got the most votes.  poo poo.  These assholes again. But with more motion blur, this time. : "W-why are you here? This place is supposed to be sealed!" : "You just unsealed it yourself. When I sought the rune previously, it was impossible to find this location. The Flame Champion must have been an extremely cunning man. I searched Le Buque, the Safir Clan... even Alma Kinan." : "Hey, I saw you back on the highway!"At the crazy one. Yuber stares for a couple moments.  : "Oh, yeah, I remember you. How could a kid like you ever bear a True Rune? Life has strange twists, I guess.": "drat!"The masked man steps forward. : "Let's get on with this, shall we? I'm a very busy man." Pointing this out because, of all the nice touches in this game, the one big one they missed was sticking the Rune on his hand. : "Go ahead and resist. It'll give me a chance to practice my powers of persuasion!"What a cocky rear end in a top hat.  He motions with his arm, and...  Where the gently caress did those come from!?   Well, this is gonna be fun.  Yuber, Sarah, the Masked Man, and three chimeras? All this with a three-person party who haven't been healed between battles. Whereas the fight against the True Rune is actually pretty easy, this one is not. I lied about giving a poo poo about the chimeras, though. They're pretty much trash. This is also one that I'll be losing on purpose. Don't get me wrong, I totally won it, and you will see how, but there's a dialogue change so I went back and lost it.  Anyway, we've got the True Fire Rune to play with, now. However, Hugo has effectively an E in Fire Magic since he doesn't have the skill, and no amount of cutting the cast times because it's a True Rune is going to help here. Even the first cast would take nearly a full turn to cast, and he can't use the fourth cast yet at all. Basically, it's not worth trying out in this fight, so you'll have to wait a bit to see what it can do. As we're losing this one, let's briefly cover what these ones are capable of before we get wrecked.    The chimeras are capable of getting killed before they even get a chance to attack. In this version of the battle, they're really only there to distract Hugo from attacking someone you actually need to take down, since he runs faster than Geddoe casts and likes to prioritize the front lines even when you tell him not to. Also, using that spell takes both Sarah and the Masked Man into critical HP.   Sarah is better at fire magic than Hugo. She'll only do about 250 damage tops, but against an already battered party, that is enough to take at least one person down.  Also, her AoE spells, like the fire one and this death glacier one, will never actually damage her party like ours would, because she is a cheater.  Luckily, she still likes to waste her first turn on healing a lot of the time.  Masked Man is still fond of tornadoes, though he likes to pull out his Pale Gate Rune for some fun times there too.  He also still likes to do this dragon thing, which is basically guaranteed to take down everyone who is not named Geddoe, while also giving heals to the three jerks.  Yuber: still capable of hitting way too hard way too often. He can also cast lightning magic, which you want him to do, and use his Eight Devil Rune, which you do not. Anyway, there are a few strategies to this battle that are not entirely reliant on luck, so here is the one I used with this party.  First, clear the board with Geddoe so that you've only got the big three assholes to deal with. At this point, Hugo will have already wasted his turn attacking a chimera because  and Sarah will maybe have wasted hers healing, but if not, hope that she only managed to hit Hugo and maybe Geddoe, because Hugo is our (really bad) shield, and Geddoe can shrug off a couple casts of magic before you need to start worrying, whereas Chris cannot. Generally, I find it to be good to use this first turn to have her patch herself up instead of attacking, so that she stays out of range and can maybe survive the next strike. Step two: Yuber attacks Hugo, hopefully he'll dodge but he probably won't.  Next, the Masked Bishop will attack, which Geddoe will survive even without help, and Chris will survive because you healed her up first.  Then, we get really lucky. I think the whole battle hinged on this, actually. Most versions of this battle hinge on Geddoe surviving to the end, actually.  Sarah uses magic, Geddoe doesn't care and Chris is still out of range.   This is one of those few times that her personal Rune is actually incredibly helpful. You want this man down as soon as possible.  Chris will be stunned next turn, but she can still chug some medicines while that's happening.  I'm so happy Geddoe is really magic resistant, because Sarah is not holding back now.   Chris and Geddoe heal.  And then Geddoe takes a sword to the face. But Yuber made a fatal mistake attacking Geddoe instead of Chris.  Because now they're in a line.     However, as I said, we're actually going to lose this one to avoid a line, so imagine that went south instead.  I'm sure it's not hard, though this was the closest I got to actually capping them all laying on the ground defeated. Silly camera. So let's move on instead.  : "You'd better admit defeat and give us the rune.": "No, please don't!" Hugo is panting pretty heavily, and I don't think it's just from getting beaten.  : "Stop right there!" A flame springs up before Hugo, cutting off Mask.  Or, a Flame Champion.  The fire dissipates almost as quickly as it appeared, leaving Hugo looking both like he's fuming and like he's super exhausted.  : "It's just more futile resistance."  In a flash, a familiar face appears behind Hugo.  : "What's going on? Somebody, tell me!"  : "What's going on?" It takes these guys a moment.   : "Boss!!!! What happened? Where am I?"   Our three heroes rise. : "What's happening?"  : "Sarah."Albert turns his head towards her.  : "Yes, sir." She promptly starts warping them out of there, though the Masked Man lingers a bit longer. : "Why? Why can't we do as we choose? Is this the spirit force of the rune?"He turns away from them. : "Stop! Stop right there! No! Don't run away!"   A Serious Moment.  Heheh. Next time, they come back soon, as promised, and they bring more trouble with them.
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Jun 15, 2014 02:20
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The Rune Incarnation isn't bad with Geddoe; he'll keep True Lightning until after the fight. Just if you go in not knowing to stack him for fire magic you're toast in the Yuber fight. So still a dick move.
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Jun 15, 2014 02:51
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Shame that the TFR is such a liability, ironically enough because of all the speed you start getting at this point. Hugo's one of the faster characters, sure, but there are people who can match his speed, and even a couple that blow right past him. While this is awesome, it also gets everyone right up in the enemies' faces, which is where they DON'T want to be when a magical nuke (with no friendly fire) hits. I suppose one could pump up Hugo's Fire Magic skill, run a team of strong-but-slow tanks, slap Magic Resistance on all of them just in case, and let Hugo fire off a blast or two before the enemies close in. I should give that a try next time I get this far.
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Jun 15, 2014 02:55
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CmdrKing posted:The Rune Incarnation isn't bad with Geddoe; he'll keep True Lightning until after the fight. Haha, yup. His was the only version I wasn't able to win. I also hadn't been putting fire magic on anyone so you guys wouldn't see it in their skill sets, so everyone is terrible with it. And Hugo is awful with True Lightning because he doesn't have lightning magic either, so that version of the party is effectively neutered from the start. Strangely, I had the best luck with Chris' party, but that's also because I changed up my tactics a bit as well. Bufuman posted:Shame that the TFR is such a liability, ironically enough because of all the speed you start getting at this point. Hugo's one of the faster characters, sure, but there are people who can match his speed, and even a couple that blow right past him. While this is awesome, it also gets everyone right up in the enemies' faces, which is where they DON'T want to be when a magical nuke (with no friendly fire) hits. Even that doesn't always work. First time I really started experimenting with using the rune, Shiba waddled right into the line of fire (literally) and died a horrible death. It's good for battles where you don't have any teammates, though! Not that that ever really happens. At the same time, True Fire being a liability works really well from a story-standpoint, and I like that about it.
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Jun 15, 2014 03:11
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yokaiy posted:Haha, yup. His was the only version I wasn't able to win. I also hadn't been putting fire magic on anyone so you guys wouldn't see it in their skill sets, so everyone is terrible with it. And Hugo is awful with True Lightning because he doesn't have lightning magic either, so that version of the party is effectively neutered from the start. Would like to point out that if you haven't been leveling anyone's fire magic skill, you can fix that before these fights. When Sana asks if you're ready, you can tell her no; you can now leave the area, though you can only go to a few places: the Flame Champion's Hideout (you can even fight the treasure boss again if you really want to), Kuput Forest, Alma Kinan, and Duck Village. So, yeah, it's not obvious, but you do have the opportunity to do something about low/non-existant fire or lightning magic skill.
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Jun 15, 2014 03:38
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Melomane Mallet posted:Would like to point out that if you haven't been leveling anyone's fire magic skill, you can fix that before these fights. When Sana asks if you're ready, you can tell her no; you can now leave the area, though you can only go to a few places: the Flame Champion's Hideout (you can even fight the treasure boss again if you really want to), Kuput Forest, Alma Kinan, and Duck Village. So, yeah, it's not obvious, but you do have the opportunity to do something about low/non-existant fire or lightning magic skill.  You know, doing a Let's Play is a very humbling experience. I have learned so many things about this game over the course of this LP.
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Jun 15, 2014 03:55
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*Chris is looking off to the side, whistling innocently*
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Jun 15, 2014 06:37
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Funky Valentine posted:
I'm imagining her doing the Jon Stewart awkward tie-pull.
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Jun 15, 2014 06:43
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yokaiy posted:Even that doesn't always work. First time I really started experimenting with using the rune, Shiba waddled right into the line of fire (literally) and died a horrible death. It's good for battles where you don't have any teammates, though! Not that that ever really happens. Honestly the L6 Fire spell is kinda really bad in practice because of this. It has huge area of effect, to the point of being mostly indistinguishable from a true MT spell like Thunderstorm... which means that even if you set up your party for maximum odds that TFR acts first in the round, many ENEMIES will move and bring the AoE to you and nuke your party that way. On the plus side, Explosion off L2 slots with TFR's boosted speed is pretty danged good for clearing out mobs at least.
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Jun 15, 2014 09:37
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Melomane Mallet posted:Would like to point out that if you haven't been leveling anyone's fire magic skill, you can fix that before these fights. When Sana asks if you're ready, you can tell her no; you can now leave the area, though you can only go to a few places: the Flame Champion's Hideout (you can even fight the treasure boss again if you really want to), Kuput Forest, Alma Kinan, and Duck Village. So, yeah, it's not obvious, but you do have the opportunity to do something about low/non-existant fire or lightning magic skill. Oh wow. That's great to know. See, this is why I read LPs, because you learn fascinating things about games you thought you knew pretty much everything about. Guess that's why the "pretty much" is there.
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Jun 15, 2014 10:15
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I just noticed that the eye sockets on the dude's mask is up to his forehead on his model, in comparison to his portrait
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Jun 15, 2014 16:43
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Honestly, if they can't fit the names they should've replace it with something else that fits - I had no idea what the mashup was supposed to mean until you pointed it out, but naming the Boss "Fire Rune" wouldn't really be that bad, would it? Or "RuneDragon"? It's not the first enemy that has that problem, but obviously, but this one is exceptionally silly.
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Jun 17, 2014 16:03
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It's been a long time since I've played this, but I seem to recall that if your party members have enough movement left after completing their action, they'll try to move out of the area of fire rune attacks.
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Jun 17, 2014 16:57
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Szurumbur posted:Honestly, if they can't fit the names they should've replace it with something else that fits - I had no idea what the mashup was supposed to mean until you pointed it out, but naming the Boss "Fire Rune" wouldn't really be that bad, would it? Or "RuneDragon"? It's not the first enemy that has that problem, but obviously, but this one is exceptionally silly. "FireRIncar" is really out there, I agree. Maybe they REALLY wanted "incarnation" or "incarnate" to come to mind. The name that I have the most trouble with is BoneSldr (Bone Soldier). I read it as "Bone Slider" to this day. The step-by-step rundown of that battle was really nice, Yokaiy. I think it would be interesting to break down other hard battles that way. We haven't seen many (or any?) fights in that much detail before.
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Jun 17, 2014 19:03
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Man, how many does this bring Yuber's impossible battle count to? Four? This game?
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Jun 19, 2014 00:28
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Glazius posted:Man, how many does this bring Yuber's impossible battle count to? Four? This game? Yuber has not even BEGUN to be a blight on your hopes and dreams  I'm not even kidding.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:08
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Late, but I've been reading through this thread while waiting for stuff to render on the project I'm working on/when the forums would load. Pretty fun read, thanks yokaiy for doing this! Anyway-- this is what my vote for Flame Champion would have been. Best choice, hands --or is it wings? -- down.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:25
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Glazius posted:Man, how many does this bring Yuber's impossible battle count to? Four? This game? We're yet to fight Yuber in a war battle. Look at how bad Yuber is right now and then you'll see him in a battle where you can't control your troops. Testekill fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 01:41
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Flytitle posted:Late, but I've been reading through this thread while waiting for stuff to render on the project I'm working on/when the forums would load. Pretty fun read, thanks yokaiy for doing this! Anyway-- this is what my vote for Flame Champion would have been. That is beautiful. And it is also now on the OP.  Also, my pleasure. Captain Oblivious posted:Yuber has not even BEGUN to be a blight on your hopes and dreams Testekill posted:We're yet to fight Yuber in a war battle. Yep, you sure will see some examples of that soon enough. He's not even always the worst, though -- Sarah straight-up cheats during the next one. You'll see that soon enough as well.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:58
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Flytitle posted:Late, but I've been reading through this thread while waiting for stuff to render on the project I'm working on/when the forums would load. Pretty fun read, thanks yokaiy for doing this! Anyway-- this is what my vote for Flame Champion would have been. This makes me want to start a new game, give the TFR to Hugo and ignore it, then stick Rage on Sgt. Joe and play as though I chose him.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:06
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There's a recent interview with Yoshitaka Murayama from the Suikoden Revival Movement if anyone is interested. It doesn't have much in the way of new information (or hope for a new title) but there's a little bit of insight on the series. https://www.facebook.com/notes/suikoden-revival-movement/interview-with-yoshitaka-murayama/619511931478328
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Jun 19, 2014 19:10
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Testekill posted:We're yet to fight Yuber in a war battle.  I have a feeling the subtitle for that update will be: "gently caress. YOU. Yuber." yokaiy posted:Yep, you sure will see some examples of that soon enough.
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Jun 19, 2014 19:47
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I smell Gate fuckery. This has the stench of exposition. Much exposition.
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Jun 20, 2014 00:24
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Rigged Death Trap posted:I smell Gate fuckery. You're right and wrong at the same time.
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Jun 20, 2014 02:48
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Chapter 4.2 - Fire - feat. Chris How about we try this again? The split is pretty interesting, actually, because while events largely follow a template, there are a lot of neat quirks depending on who you're playing with.  We start off largely the same -- the camera pans over our three heroes.  It then settles on Chris, who looks off to the Flame Champion's laundry.    : "We may have differing viewpoints on some things, but not about what's important. Both of our lands are in grave danger." : "Please give me the power."I have thoughts about this option, but it can pretty succinctly be summed up in what she just said. Chris is no champion of the Grasslands.  Oh well, let's do this thing.  : "To fulfill his last request, I will open the door to the True Rune. Behind it, a challenge awaits you. By passing this test, you will prove your ability to bear the Rune's responsibilities.": "Yes, I will." Party is a little different this time, but it's the same basic premise -- our two mortals in front and our immortal in the back. : "Well then, let me guide you. Are you ready?": "Yes.": "Well then, please follow me." She follows, and Sana stops to have a short word with her. : "The True Fire Rune lies here. Proceed and open the door."  : "Huh?"  Suddenly, a dragon. : "Ah, the test, I see..." Okay, let's do this.  I thought about tactics a bit more in this version (which I actually did last of the three). Still starting off with the Hammer of Raijin, though. It'll be basically no use in the next fight since it's single target, and the less damage we suffer here, the better for fighting the Masked Man's group.   My shields decide to get criticals. A lot of criticals. It was kind of absurd.  And Geddoe proceeds to do his thing.   True Fire wanted to show off something else it can do, since it didn't get the chance to in the prior run, and basically casts Meteor at us.  Not bad.  And here is where my strategy diverged a bit.  First, I decide to use Hugo's Wind Rune to patch people up. It's a sort of annoying process, since he can only heal one at a time, but our party is small and the cast time is absurdly short which is wonderful.  Geddoe switches to using one of his lesser casts so that we can save both of his L3 casts for the next battle.  It still does more than enough damage to True Fire, so it's not even like I'm losing any muscle here.     Also, I learned that True Fire can breathe blue flames at someone which will also poison them. That's actually kinda cool, even if the camera acted up during it. You don't see many bosses that inflict status effects.  Hugo's still on emergency healing duties.  And Chris finishes it off.  So badass.     They start to walk away and, just like Hugo had, Chris pauses for some dialogue. : "Hugo... and Geddoe." : "I was able to see evil heading for the rune in Alma Kinan. Let me use its power to defeat this evil."  These guys show up, of course. : "W-why are you here? This place is supposed to be sealed!": "You just unsealed it yourself. When I sought the rune previously, it was impossible to find this location. The Flame Champion must have been an extremely cunning man. I searched Le Buque, the Safir Clan... even Alma Kinan. He caused me a lot of trouble, but it doesn't matter now. I've found what I'm after. Give me the rune.": "Y-you..." : "What?": "Let's get on with this, shall we? I'm a very busy man." Chris is definitely the most eloquent about her refusal. You'll see this better with Geddoe as well, but the three of them refuse very differently and it actually says a lot about them. Also, it's much less awkward to not see the True Fire Rune here when the person in question is wearing gloves. : "Go ahead and resist. It'll give me a chance to practice my powers of persuasion!" Chimeras. : "So, shall we get started, Flame Champion?" Chris is even worse with this rune than Hugo was. Honestly, she will probably never reach that fourth level spell, and if she does, it will be very late in the game. Well, let's not sweat over that. I warned that True Fire probably wouldn't see the light of day on her hand, and that has not changed.    Geddoe starts off by wiping out half of the map.  Hugo follows up with a Wind of Sleep and, before you say anything, shut up, that actually can work on these guys. Yeah, I know. You'll see. Not this time, though.  Yuber moves in to attack Chris.  She manages to dodge the killing blow, but...   He manages to parry her to death during her turn.  Next, Sarah uses some fire magic. Also, take note of Yuber in that defensive stance -- he's being a cheater and not taking friendly fire.  You know, I think this is the first time I've seen him use a normal attack. He tosses a green ball of magic at Hugo and misses.  We're hurting pretty badly after everything, but Hugo's got one more emergency bandaid left.  Naturally, it goes to Geddoe.   Sarah tosses a heal as well, and this is actually great because the Masked Man wasn't in range for it. Also, he's casting, and that's bad.  Geddoe is faster.  Yeah, take that. You can't cast when you're dead.  It takes Sarah back into critical as well, though Yuber takes the opportunity to slay Hugo.    And then, Geddoe continues to be the fastest.  Last man standing. poo poo, that wasn't even very hard. Again, we'll be going with the lose dialogue, though.  : "You'd better admit defeat and give us the rune.": "No, please don't!": "Don't come any closer....": "You're asking the impossible.": "Don't!!!" Hey, Iroh. : "What was that? Was it the spirit of the last Flame Champion?": "It's just more futile resistance.": "Please, hold it there. The gate has just been opened...."   Our allies warp in.  : "This place is filled with traces of the last Flame Champion's aura. It is not advisable to fight here. Sarah.": "Yes, sir."She starts warping them.  : "Stop!!!" : "I will leave the rune with you for the time being, but I will be back soon..." And, he's off.  Joe still ends the scene.
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Jun 20, 2014 17:22
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I could never figure out what triggers people to go into defensive mode with fire magic. It's what enabled my FC Hugo's TFR to be on par with Geddoe's TLR right up to the final boss without smoking my whole team. That and it would suck if FC Geddoe couldn't handle the Three Stooges after all this badass. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 18:27
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Far as I could ever tell, it had to do with how close they were to the edge of teh spell and how much movement they still had left on the turn. Unless the caster has the precision skill, in which case that largely goes out the window. You can probably actually tell by this point, but enemies have hidden skills in order to make them work right, so I'm pretty sure Sarah does indeed have Precision.
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Jun 20, 2014 19:42
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:09 |
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Does Hugo get Precision? It's been over ten years since I played this game, and that would definitely explain why I had no problems using the TFR.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:52
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