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yokaiy posted:I thought that tree was just some weird abomination that grew ammunition-fruits? The Punishment Rune was on Lazlo at the time, so I don't think that one was involved. Soul Eater is accounted for too. What other True Runes were in that game? It's been so long. After a little bit of digging, it appears that all the things which caused various kinds of fuckery in Suiko IV and Tactics were summoned using minor gate runes. (Probably Pale Gate Runes, but it's not 100% specific) So I guess technically it's not True rune fuckery, so much as just rune fuckery in general. 
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Feb 8, 2015 06:03
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Is there a weaker version of Pale Gate? Like, Fire goes Fire -> Rage -> True Fire.... is there a similar three-step thing for Gate? Could it be Viki's Blinking rune?
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Feb 8, 2015 15:51
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Poque posted:Is there a weaker version of Pale Gate? Like, Fire goes Fire -> Rage -> True Fire.... is there a similar three-step thing for Gate? That would make sense, you can get more of the Blinking Rune in a couple of games, Viki's just spectacularly bad at magic. (In Suikoden 2, she has an E for every rune. 20% more damage, but with a chance to backfire.) And it's clear the Pale Gate rune can be used to teleport as well.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:04
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Blinking -> Pale Gate -> Gate Rune (Front/Back held by Leknaat/Windy) Seems like a logical progression to me! But it's entirely likely that the Blinking Rune is it's own thing considering all of the shenanigans Viki gets up to with/because of it. The Pale Gate -> Gate is confirmed though.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:28
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Poque posted:Is there a weaker version of Pale Gate? Like, Fire goes Fire -> Rage -> True Fire.... is there a similar three-step thing for Gate? Hunter Noventa posted:That would make sense, you can get more of the Blinking Rune in a couple of games, Viki's just spectacularly bad at magic. (In Suikoden 2, she has an E for every rune. 20% more damage, but with a chance to backfire.) And it's clear the Pale Gate rune can be used to teleport as well. Even the shape of the Blinking Rune can be used as an evidence of affinity with the Gate Rune:  Blinking Rune  Blue/Pale Gate Rune  Gate Rune
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Feb 8, 2015 21:32
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EponymousMrYar posted:Blinking -> Pale Gate -> Gate Rune (Front/Back held by Leknaat/Windy) Viki is not the only user of Blinking Rune in II and III; surely is the only one that can teleport the party, but can be used by another character as a combat rune.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:37
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Luc, Armageddon is never the answer. I'd think you've have picked that up by now.
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Feb 9, 2015 05:37
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Poque posted:Is there a weaker version of Pale Gate? Like, Fire goes Fire -> Rage -> True Fire.... is there a similar three-step thing for Gate? No, but there also isn't a weaker version of the shield rune, or the darkness and condemnation runes in other games.
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Feb 9, 2015 06:40
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I'm trying to think of how lovely the rune in the ??? > Condemnation > Punishment chain would be. Condemnation in V was... really awful. Lv4 Spell? Instant Death spell that can kill you. Totally worth it over every single other 4th level spell on every other rune.
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Feb 9, 2015 10:25
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Each True Rune is equally powerful compared to each other, plotwise. All Luc was saying was that there was a balance of power, because it's one True Rune versus one True Rune. Since Sarah used True Earth, it was simply 2 vs. 1, and True Lightning lost. Of course this begs the question of why Luc didn't just ask Yuber to help, but maybe Luc doesn't know about the Eightfold Rune.
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Feb 9, 2015 11:38
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Tallgeese posted:Each True Rune is equally powerful compared to each other, plotwise. Or maybe he did and Yuber said no. (Or Yuber's True Rune said no. They do have their own wills, to a point.)
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Feb 9, 2015 11:47
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Speaking of there's been a conspicuous absence of Yuber since Luc got his mask knocked off. I bet that's the real reason he was sticking around. The mask would complete his ensemble.
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Feb 9, 2015 11:54
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Tallgeese posted:Each True Rune is equally powerful compared to each other, plotwise. silversatyr posted:Or maybe he did and Yuber said no. (Or Yuber's True Rune said no. They do have their own wills, to a point.) I think it was just a matter of him needing two Elemental True Runes specifically, so the Eightfold probably wouldn't have helped anyway. Which begs the question of how he pried Sasarai's out of him with only his Wind Rune, but that's a gripe for another time. EponymousMrYar posted:Speaking of there's been a conspicuous absence of Yuber since Luc got his mask knocked off. 
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Feb 9, 2015 17:57
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yokaiy, you continue to be the best. 
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Feb 9, 2015 18:28
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It was me, Pesmerga! It was me, all along!
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Feb 9, 2015 19:00
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Fister Roboto posted:No, but there also isn't a weaker version of the shield rune, or the darkness and condemnation runes in other games. Depending how you want to look at it, Bright Shield/Black Sword are the 'children' of the Rune of Beginning, making Shield and Sword of [Element] rune the equivalent of standard elemental runes from that perspective. But that's picking nits, since in general the pattern seems to be the opposite, most True Runes have a single derived rune and the elemental runes, being more primal forces rather than having the duality most True Runes represent, have multiple levels of refinement required for lesser mages to control them properly. That said... NameHurtBrain posted:I'm trying to think of how lovely the rune in the ??? > Condemnation > Punishment chain would be. Condemnation in V was... really awful. Lv4 Spell? Instant Death spell that can kill you. Totally worth it over every single other 4th level spell on every other rune. Rune only has two levels of spell. Second level spell is Voice of Death. First level spell must be cast every turn to prevent the user of the Rune from suffering instant death at the end of the turn.
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Feb 10, 2015 05:00
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dancingbears posted:It was me, Pesmerga! It was me, all along! Aw, son of a bitch!
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Feb 10, 2015 05:43
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yokaiy posted:Which begs the question of how he pried Sasarai's out of him with only his Wind Rune, but that's a gripe for another time. Though that is answered, in a fashion.
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Feb 10, 2015 07:10
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mauman posted:Though that is answered, in a fashion. So you're saying the True Earth Rune was in Sasari's giant hat? I like to imagine that Sarah stole his hat and that's why she can now use it.
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Feb 10, 2015 07:25
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Rirse posted:So you're saying the True Earth Rune was in Sasari's giant hat? I like to imagine that Sarah stole his hat and that's why she can now use it. I like the theory, but alas. The only reason I don't spell it out is spoilers. We'll get to it in time.
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Feb 10, 2015 07:40
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I like to imagine that Yuber stole the hat at the end of 2 and has been holding on to it because (sadly) it doesn't fit him. Then Sarah found his wardrobe and nicked it from him (even though it's a bit big and swims on her head.) She wears it around their secret headquarters (they're bad guys, of course they have secret headquarters! Somewhere.) and you can hear Yuber's teeth grind every time he sees her doing it because he can't just kill her and take it back (and he has to admit, she looks good in blue and white). Some days there'll be nothing but petty arguments over the drat thing - "You know that hat is mine." "It looks better on me." "It looks ridiculous on you." "You're just salty it doesn't fit your fat head." "If anyone here is fat, it's you, Ms. Gotta-eat-it-all!" "I have to restore my energy after all the spell casting I do! I'm NOT fat!" "Tell that to the mirror." "You little-" *starts casting* "No you don't!" *also starts casting* "No Rune-play in the HQ! How many times-" "He said-!" "She said-!" "-looks best on-" "-MY hat! Mine!" "Oh, FFS." Luc just facepalms every time they bicker over it and reminds them not to play with runes in the The only reason Sasarai chose to get involved in this war was because he heard rumours of a magnificent hat spotted in the Zexen/Grasslands area. (The hat of the rumour is actually Augustine's.) He volunteered for the spot as general to the armies and the rest of the bishops - glad to get him out of their hair over the drat thing - practically threw him out the door. Meanwhile, Luc is wondering how he can take the damned thing and burn it without Sarah and Yuber tag-teaming him to death. He's still pondering the question. The only good idea that occurred to him was to gift it back to Sasarai anonymously, but he's torn because he also thinks it's hilarious that Sasarai is so drat distracted by its loss. He's definitely not going to do any favours to his 'dear' brother. On the other side of the war, Lucia sometimes dreams of a magnificent hat. Otherwise, they have their own
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Feb 10, 2015 07:49
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Y'all are just baiting yokaiy for more awesome art now. 
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Feb 10, 2015 19:19
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Chapter 5.2 - Geddoe Part 2 Franz approaches Iku slowly, and she walks to meet him.  Whatever he was going to say gets stuck in his throat, so he just stands there awkwardly, probably afraid to walk into the barrier again.     She nuzzles up close to him instead.  : "Thank god, that weird thing is finally gone." : "Iku, are you all right? I... I couldn't protect you...": "That's OK, Franz..." Everyone in Geddoe's bunch has at least an A rank in Mood-Killing.   Ace sighs, turning back to the entrance.  I hope it's a puppy.    The villagers hang out here for a bit, since we're not sure how safe it is. You can buy basic supplies from one of them, and another will act as an inn in case you blew through your best casts in the boss battle. Nothing too special, but don't forget that Geddoe's casts are different now -- if you accidentally went through all your L3 casts, then he won't be able to use Soaring Bolt anymore, and trust me, we're going to need that. I promptly forget to utilize any of their services.  Well, no sense in waiting. Let's check it out.    : "You see his farewell present anywhere?"   Jacques, you sassed!   Wow, this sure is a monster wall.  We're so hosed.  : "Shall we, then?": "Uh-huh. I don't mind dying for a change." : "Not me, thanks!" And this is why we needed to save our casts.  I'm going to cry. I could really use the 8 casts of Soaring Bolt that Geddoe used to have. So let's talk about this fight. General boss tactics are recommended. Have Aila berserk everyone on the first turn, and then hit as hard as you can.  As for enemies, the Mirage's aren't too special yet, and will go down from Geddoe's attack. The Ghost Armor is a bit more hardy.    They have a multi-target attack where they send their armor flying out at everyone. It's pretty neat. Damage is a resounding okay, but if you get swarmed and they all use it, they can be pretty dangerous.  Whatever, we kill them.  : "Look! More of them! Go ahead, old man.": "Are you talking to me?" Oh, did I say "fight" like as in singular? I meant "fights."  Same strategy -- hit fast and hit hard.  That's one of the best berserks I've seen, actually. Everyone but Aila.   Magic is harder without the True Rune.   Oh, this is what the Ghost Armor normal attack looks like. Less impressive than their other one.  Sweet, sweet revenge.  We kill that wave too, and there are levels about. Aila's level up came up a little after everyone else's, so you cant see it in this screen.   : "drat! They might be too much for us to handle."  : "Be careful! Here they come again!!" There's a dragon this time, too.  poo poo, I'm out of Soaring Bolts. Next best thing I guess.  Jacques can use Boronda Hawk once per battle, and I am so pleased about that. Because he is using it every battle for this section. He needs it.  This time, only Jacques doesn't berserk. But that's fine, since he already attacked this turn.   Good damage, bad range. These two go down, but we've still got a number of baddies left.  Things I don't care about! Honestly, why did they go with the normal dragons for this battle? They coulda gone Troll Dragon, at least. Make it a little more threatening. I guess the other enemy types make up for the lamewad, though.  Things I do care about!  Still more of them.  Our heroes aren't looking too good. Also, I want to hear that story, it sounds great. : "You said it. But it's kind of exciting to face monsters, don't you think?": "What are we going to do, boss? It doesn't look like we can wipe them out. I think we'd be better off..." : "Never!": "Think of it this way -- if we stay here and die, there's no way that they'll survive either, Aila.": "No, that's not fair...": "In battle, strategy based on pure calculation is often better than relying on human emotions. It may not be nice, but it's the best way, you know." : "............." In retrospect, returning to the room may have been a better plan, but whatever. I'm not sure if it actually helps, or ends up making things worse. Part of me hopes that it actually makes things worse. That'd be cool. Really mean, but cool. : "Yeah, a Fire Bringer can't abandon the townspeople, I guess. He'd lose face fast."Losing face has nothing to do with it, Ace. : "Here they come again!!!!" It may look like we're back to the easy fights, but don't be fooled. We're running low on magic, and the monsters aren't going to fall over so easy anymore.  I decide to forego magic to get everyone doing damage as quickly as possible. With some help from a starting Boronda Hawk, the Mirages still aren't too bad to take down.  They've started to pull out their multi-target attack too.  Ghost Armor is still doing that too.  We take them out without too much more of a fuss on the next turn.   : "This won't do....": "We will either end up cornered or use up all our energy fighting. Either way, our future seems dim to me."  : "Exactly!": "All right, everybody, hang in there!"  Aila applies some bandaids early on, while everyone else hits things. Not having the berserk status is making this more difficult, but we'll have to manage. She hasn't had to do this yet because of Mio healing us a bit between fights, this being why I recommended having a healing support member in your party. I think I forgot about giving them a support my first time doing this, and had a much harder time during this section.  Ace, you're awesome.    Pictured: three multi-target attacks in a row from our friends here.  Looks like Aila's gonna be healing a while still.  We're getting there, but...  These guys are still assholes.  Aila manages a break in the healing, and berserks the party.  Much better.  We've just about had it here, though. : "drat!": "Boss! This might be it!": "Not here... drat!"   : "Aila!!!!"    Saved.  : "Who was that?"   Duke, you miserable piece of poo poo, I've never been so happy to see you before. : "Duke!!! How did you find us here?"  : "Just seeing you falter was reward enough.": "drat!" There's a dialogue choice here, but.  Geddoe's not stubborn enough to forego help when necessary, I think. The result is the same either way. Also, I think we owe it to Duke to cut him a break this one time.  : "A-ha! What a surprise! I never thought you'd say those words, Geddoe.": "Enough, Duke! Are you here to help or harass?"    He and his mercenary unit spring into action.  : "All right, we'll go free the townspeople while they take care of the monsters." Franz, I think you'd make a pretty good seventh member of the band. You wouldn't happen to be a support character, would you?  : "Ooops, they're tougher than I thought!"  : "Which spices up the stew!" : "Absolutely!" : "Here I go! Watch how I fight!": "Heh-heh. He's pretty keen on this whole thing!" A short time skip later...  : "Duke seems to be looking for loot inside." : "Sure."Strange idea of a family outing.  : "Well, thank you very much. I never dreamt that anyone would come to rescue us.": "............."Franz (he's a little off-screen for this shot) starts off without her, probably a little jealous.  She bows, and then leaves with the others. Geddoe lingers, and Queen catches up to him.  : "A hero, huh? Hmmm...""Gross."  Let's head back to Le Buque now, and see how everyone's getting on now that they're not being a planned casualty in Luc's diabolical plan.   Geddoe doesn't seem too happy with the attention he's getting, to be honest, but the villagers are fawning over he and his mercs for saving their lives anyway.  Franz is being left out of the fun.   : "We've been occupied by Harmonia for over 50 years, but we've never forgotten about the Grasslands, our home." : "Yes. We are eternally grateful to you."  Naturally, Franz gets mad.  He attempts to punch a guy.  But ends up flat on his back instead after getting counter-punched instead.  : "No telling what that traitor will do. We'd better tie him up." Iku wedges herself between them.  : "Move over, Iku. Are you taking the Harmonian's side?": "Stop talking nonsense. Franz actually..." A+ animation touch, as he rubs the side of his face where he was hit. : "Franz, you don't need to be alone in this. I want to help you this time!"  And then Geddoe, who is still dying by the way, punches a guy.  : "He was working for the Harmonians!" : "Well, er..."   : "What do you mean by pride? How precious is your belief without the backbone to accomplish something?" Whatever. We're out of here. Franz and Iku, get in my castle, you're too good for these poopy babies.   Ahh, now these jerks I like. They were waiting for Geddoe at the top of the hill.  Hehe.  : "Uh huh..." 
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Feb 10, 2015 19:40
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Queen's last line there sums up why I like Geddoe best not being the Flame Champion. It just isn't his style
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Feb 10, 2015 20:03
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I'm changing my theory, Geddoe isn't Hugo's dad, he's EVERYONE'S dad.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:06
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Does that mean we finally get to see a Le Buque warrior actually riding their buggies? Also any chance we can get a Hugo, Fubar, Umm, the dragonrider and his dragon, and Franz with Ruby at some point?
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Feb 10, 2015 20:08
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I was staring at that last image wondering who Ruby was, and then I remembered. Of course the giant bug is a star. Of course. Really loved everyone's sass about Luc's present, and what a nice way for Duke and others to join up.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:14
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yokaiy posted:
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Feb 10, 2015 20:22
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What happens if you abandon the townspeople? Is it actually viable or do you just get scolded and sent into the battle anyway? It'd be awful if you could actually do it and it cost you all seven of those recruits.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:28
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quote:He just fuckin' floored the guy! Down to the ground in a damned instant! Geddoe is just brutal when he needs to.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:38
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Captain Oblivious posted:Queen's last line there sums up why I like Geddoe best not being the Flame Champion. It just isn't his style Alacron posted:I'm changing my theory, Geddoe isn't Hugo's dad, he's EVERYONE'S dad. inverts posted:I was staring at that last image wondering who Ruby was, and then I remembered. Ruby is adorable and definitely star material.  Also, yeah, Duke & co have one of my favorite recruits, though I find it kinda funny how they bugger off for the whole Le Buque thing after. Maybe they went back to the castle early to steal all the booze and food before Geddoe and his troupe could get back.Mehuyael posted:Does that mean we finally get to see a Le Buque warrior actually riding their buggies? Yes on both counts -- Franz will ride Ruby when they're in a pair just like the other two pairs, and Franz/Ruby, Futch/Bright, and Hugo/Fubar can potentially be a party. That one's gonna be more on you guys than me, though.  AshtonDragon posted:This is it. My favorite line in the game. It may not seem like anything special (especially considering Geddoe being a complete badass at the end of this update), but this line floored me the first time I played the game. So completely unexpected from Jacques. I love it too. Not quite as much as I love Geddoe punching a guy, but Jacques is wonderful and that line is wonderful.Poque posted:What happens if you abandon the townspeople? Is it actually viable or do you just get scolded and sent into the battle anyway? The villagers all die (probably) and you lose out on those recruits, yes. Abandoning them is actually something you can do, though I've never personally done it. Rigged Death Trap posted:He just fuckin' floored the guy! I think that's the exact moment where Geddoe shot up from "probably my favorite" to "hands down my favorite."
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Feb 10, 2015 21:13
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Let's just appreciate this for a moment. What's extra great about this is how it beautifully summarizes everything Suikoden III does right. Yeah, we just decked a dude... because he was going to abuse another villager for helping their overlords. Who are the primary enemy army through most of Suikoden III. It's a pretty great exchange. "Butbutbut he's the enemy! He's a harmonian soldier!" "Right. Because that means maybe you can become actual citizens of Harmonia instead of slaves. What have you done to end the suffering of your people lately?" Really ties together the overall theme that different sides of a conflict can not only have reasonable, even noble goals, but that they aren't necessarily wrong despite being against the heroes. All Suikoden games (... to this point) have elements of that, but again Suikoden III is the one that really employs it to best effect. It's great.
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Feb 10, 2015 23:19
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Geddoe cold-cocking that guy is the best scene in the entire series. It's just the whole him not needing this poo poo right now.
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Feb 11, 2015 03:04
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CmdrKing posted:Let's just appreciate this for a moment. I mean, the guy is dying and is a caster/mage character, yet he still has the strength to knock someone flat on their rear end like it was nothing. And then he just walks away while not giving a gently caress. Okay, that last bit is normal for Geddoe, but still. But yes, this is a wonderful scene and like you said, hits home on a lot of the Le Buque plot and wraps up this little side bit very nicely. Of course, Chris and Hugo are going to have a long way to top all of this. Like, at this point, one of them is going to have to moonsault Yuber or Luc into their respective True Rune's strongest spell or something over the top like that.
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Feb 11, 2015 04:04
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I don't know why, but the sparklines on that punch make that image hilarious to me. The early parts of this chapter are my favorite section of the game.
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Feb 11, 2015 04:33
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Even when he's dying Geddoe is the best character
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Feb 11, 2015 04:43
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Testekill posted:Geddoe cold-cocking that guy is the best scene in the entire series. It's just the whole him not needing this poo poo right now. Welllll, I'd say the best scene would be that little bit from I involving the following phrase: "You're the one person I can't forgive." But hot dang, Geddoe and his gang (and Franz) had a lot of good scenes in this update!
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Feb 11, 2015 05:09
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yokaiy posted:
I'm just going to stand up and do a stadium-style wave for Geddoe. I'll assume that everyone in this thread is joining me.
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Feb 11, 2015 07:08
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AradoBalanga posted:I mean, the guy is dying and is a caster/mage character, yet he still has the strength to knock someone flat on their rear end like it was nothing. Well, in fairness Geddoe is actually the strongest of the three main characters and has the best base damage per-swing. Trouble is he doesn't get any of the nifty supporting skills like Heavy Damage or enough levels of Swing to actually have a top tier physical, so while Geddoe's sword swipes aren't trivial, they're a waste of his lightning death powers. As long as we're on mechanics, let's look at our new PCs. Duke's crew as a unit have one big thing going for them: they just joined up with near-endgame armors, level 12 or so weapons, and levels over 50. All four participate in war battles, and if you find yourself needing a hole plugged, tossing them together will give you a viable unit for most situations with no upgrades whatsoever. Duke- Duke reaaaalllyyy wants to be Geddoe, and this carries through in his default build. He's trying to rock a Lightning Rune, a 2-handed sword, and chainmail. But... he doesn't have the skills to back any of that up. Not enough swing to get more than one thwack out of his weapon, not enough heavy damage to reliably ruin faces with crits, not enough Lightning Magic to cast top end spells in any reasonable time frame. Duke is baaaad, is what I'm getting at, like one of the worst. Elaine- Flexible mixed fighter. She's about as fast as Lilly, although lacks Heavy Damage, and comes packing both Fire and Water, which she's decent with. She'd be better earlier in the game, when you have fixed parties so someone who can adapt to plug holes is valuable, but she's not really bad at least. Gau- Nothing exceptional. He does want some Lion God Rings, which are the the species equip for kobolds... of which he's the only (combat) one in the game. Decent if not exceptional damage off passable speed with okay defenses. Basically exists to plug holes in parties, but okay in that capacity. Nicolas- The last of the uber tanks. Packs a Shield in addition to the heavy armor, but has weaker Shield Protect than Fred or Cecile so it's more there for the raw defense boost than comboing dodge tanking with tank tanking. Unlike the others he really can't do anything except tank, due to a combination of weak stats and lacking skill slots, so basically if uh you find yourself needing a fifth heavy tank, there you go? And the rest Franz- Practically a copy-paste of Futch. Lots of decent skill ranks, but only four slots. Ruby- Basically similar to Fubar, trading a bit of agility for some beefier defensive stats. As with Futch, if you're going to field Franz at all, take advantage of that mounted status.
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Feb 11, 2015 07:30
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Dukes crew is a mediocre counterpoint to Geddoe's. You've got the fighter-caster in Geddoe/Duke, the fighter that is decent with magic in Joker/Elaine, a solid fighter in Ace/Gau and another fighter in Queen/Nicolas. Like you say though, none of his crew is good enough in comparision to Geddoe's. They're not horrible but we're in the last chapter, we deserve some better characters than ones that are merely decent. By this point in II, we would have the Lampdragon Bandits and Georg. The bandits are good at what they do while Georg is a monster. Hell, we would probably have Vincent De Boule by now who was pretty good.
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Feb 11, 2015 07:47
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