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Verant posted:I always figured it was more than Geddoe had 50+ years to bond with his True Rune in addition to his built-in magic prowess that required the usage of two True Runes to overpower him, whereas Chris pretty much just picked up the TWR and hasn't had any time to get familiar with it and form any sort of spiritual connection to it (See: Ted's ability to call out to the Soul Eater after spending about 150 years with it despite it not currently being on his person in IV), which makes her relatively easy pickings. Didn't Luc say Geddoe's had it for a century? Yeah, that probably makes a BIG drat difference in terms of power: Chris just didn't have the time to become even semi-adequate with her rune, and she couldn't have known about the whole rune-removal technique, so it makes sense that she gets beaten more easily than someone who's a terrifying veteran who survived the fire rune's little atomic blast. Beyond that, the only thing I can think of that develops Chris in this scene is that she's now been on the receiving end of a curb-stomp, same as she did to Lulu: right now, her home needs her than ever before, and she can't do a drat thing because she just doesn't have the time to get strong enough to keep the true rune. And if Luc's planning to go homicidal maniac with all the runes? She may live *just* long enough to see everything she's fought for be annihilated...just like she did to a certain Grassland tribe. All because of a woman who shares both her hair color and her complete dedication to one thing above all else, even going so far as to outright ignore morally reprehensible behavior...just like Chris did with Boris when she couldn't bring herself to punish him, or even launch a *real* inquiry into the whole 'butcher of non-combatants' thing. And to top it all off? Sarah is a strong mage, but a weak fighter; just the opposite of Chris.
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Mar 6, 2015 07:54
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So if Sarah is a foil to Chris... would that make Luc a foil to Hugo, and thus Yuber a match for Geddoe? Cause that's kind of awesome.
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Mar 6, 2015 17:05
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Raitzeno posted:So if Sarah is a foil to Chris... would that make Luc a foil to Hugo, and thus Yuber a match for Geddoe? Cause that's kind of awesome. Just the opposite, I think: Luc is a foil for Geddoe, since they both know the actual price of living with a true rune: the difference being that Luc has apparently lost his interest in humanity (or never had any to begin with) while Geddoe *still*, after a hundred years, surrounds himself with friends he *knows* are almost certainly going to die before him, if they don't actually end up dying with him instead. Luc, however, has surrounded himself with true rune bearers, who don't share the same sort of problems that Geddoe's companions do...but they also don't appear to make him feel any more alive or compassionate, like Geddoe's companions do for him. As for Hugo? I have a theory on that, but since it involves Albert, not Yuber, it'll have to wait. Yuber DOES have a foil though, oddly enough, but not who you'd expect: it's actually Thomas, because he's the Tenkai star, and the Tenkai star is *never* supposed to abandon his comrades until fate has run its course, even when winning looks almost impossible (and the Tenkai star has no combat experience what-so-ever). Meanwhile, Yuber runs off by himself when things start to go wrong in every game he appears in, despite being a near perfect fighter himself.
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Mar 6, 2015 18:26
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thetruegentleman posted:Just the opposite, I think: Luc is a foil for Geddoe, since they both know the actual price of living with a true rune: the difference being that Luc has apparently lost his interest in humanity (or never had any to begin with) while Geddoe *still*, after a hundred years, surrounds himself with friends he *knows* are almost certainly going to die before him, if they don't actually end up dying with him instead. Luc, however, has surrounded himself with true rune bearers, who don't share the same sort of problems that Geddoe's companions do...but they also don't appear to make him feel any more alive or compassionate, like Geddoe's companions do for him. Yeah, having played all three paths, Luc comes off as a foil for Geddoe more than anybody else. Another reason why Geddoe Path is the *Best Path.  *With one exception mauman fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 23:45
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Tylana posted:Watching it again makes me kind of wish they instead captured the Lightning and Water rune holders. Having the person floating in a orb that controls/siphons the rune seems more in line with the series? Then Thomas could run the rescue mission. Which would be great. Really, that does make a lot more sense. This game is kind of ridiculous with the plot hammers.
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Mar 7, 2015 05:18
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thetruegentleman posted:Didn't Luc say Geddoe's had it for a century? Yeah, that probably makes a BIG drat difference in terms of power: Chris just didn't have the time to become even semi-adequate with her rune, and she couldn't have known about the whole rune-removal technique, so it makes sense that she gets beaten more easily than someone who's a terrifying veteran who survived the fire rune's little atomic blast. Don't have too much to add, but I would like to say that this discussion (and the rest that has followed it that I don't feel like quoting) has made me enjoy that part a lot more. I still think a lot of improvements could have -- and probably should have -- been made for this part, but I do like that parallel a lot. I also like how our good guys and bad guys are foils to each other -- I'd pointed out how our good guys are, but hadn't really thought about that relationship with the baddies as well. thetruegentleman posted:As for Hugo? I have a theory on that, but since it involves Albert, not Yuber, it'll have to wait. Oh-ho. I'm excited to see what you've got to say about this when the time comes. I was pretty sure Caesar was Albert's foil, though. Verant posted:Though - why would Chris be dying? I was under the assumption that you'd only be in danger of dying without your True Rune if you've lived beyond a normal lifespan like Geddoe has. Mighta gotten a bit ahead of myself there, then. Whoops.  It can't be healthy, regardless.
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Mar 9, 2015 21:01
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Chapter 5.4 - Hugo Once again, we find ourselves back at the trinity site, where the game auto-scrolls its way over to Hugo's flame so we can see what he's up to. You get one guess as to what's gonna happen with him in this update.   After the excitement from the last two sections, things seem pretty laid-back over here, maybe even bordering on boring.     : "Even if they were here, you lead the Fire Bringer of the Zexen-Grasslands. You should be ready at any time!" : "Good point."He's waffling a little bit while the other two are out, but that seems pretty reasonable to me. God-power aside, he's still a kid, and that means he wouldn't always know what to do with himself, even if he is kind of leading an army now.  Still, we could stand to patrol or do something constructive while we wait for them to come home. First up, we'll patrol the mail box.  Franz posted:Ruby and Fubar Connie posted:From Connie Hallec posted:No title  Hehe.   : "Problems, huh? Well, we can take care of every little worry!" : "Hmm? Oh, I was just thinking. Do you want something?" : "This room is okay, but I find it difficult to relax. It would be nice to have a Karaya-style room." : "What's that idol? Is it some human god?"Our war council doesn't have much to add. I think Dupa's talking about the suits of armor around the room.  Oh, Hallec. Anyway, let's keep going.   : "Yep. I think I'll go check on the neighboring villages, too." : "That's a splendid idea! The nearest village is Iksay."  : "Got it."That is a good idea.  I throw some people in my party, though that's not actually necessary; we won't run into any encounters while we're out. I decide to grab Edge this time around because we'd never seen him in action before, and I am kinda fond of him. 12-year-old-me or however old I was when I first saw his design thought he was awesome looking, and I've never really been able to shake that nostalgia for him.  This happens.   Edge was looking pretty mediocre, so I buffed him up a little with the skill points he came with. He should be serviceable enough.  Okay, on to Iksay.  Nothing much happening here, but I still like this line. You actually don't even have to come here -- just leaving the castle will prompt the story to continue upon your return.  So let's head back, and  Oh goodness. I think that horse is just straight-up dead. It's not moving.  : "Yes. I've got to report, right away." We are here now! : "What's up?": "It seems a messenger from the Brass Castle has arrived."  Cut to a few minutes later...  Well, that sounds not good. : "That's not possible. How could such a big army reach the Brass Castle without being noticed?": "It could be that mage again."  : "Regardless, they desperately need our help!": "Please, I beg you." : "Sure, go ahead, Caesar."Wow, that sounds really chill considering it's a military action. : "How long does it take to get from here to the Brass Castle?": "It will take about two days to assemble, organize, and advance the army." : "I don't think Brass Castle will fall that easily. In addition to the fortifications, it has Chris' leadership and Salome's stratagems."Well, it has one of those two things. : "What about selecting the toughest warriors and sending them ahead?": "Brilliant idea! They'll blaze a trail immediately."Emphasis on blaze.  : "Sure.": "Hold it. We can't let Hugo take such a risk.": "Don't worry, Caesar. I am an experienced fighter. I can take care of myself."Don't worry, Caesar. What could possibly go wrong! : "Okay. Go ahead, then, but be careful!": "What you're really saying is that you don't want me to fall prey to them and give up the True Rune.": "No, you don't understand, Hugo!": "... I know." : "No problem." : "You know, I could always adopt him as my son. That would guarantee his best performance at all times!" Okay, I'll forgive this one, because I feel like it's emphasizing her sarcasm. : "I guess a decision has been reached. Please choose the party members." I keep the same party I had to begin with, though I did switch up the positions a bit. : "Now, get ready as soon as possible."Done.  I feel like he'd have been riding Fubar if we had him with us, but I've been forgetting to bring him lately. : "Apple, I'm entrusting everything to your capable hands." : "Everything may be over before you get there!" What a cocky poo poo. : "That would be great." Are you an owl now?  Hugo gives him a wary stare. Okay, let's mosey.  Once again, I think we're locked out of teleporting, but it's not a long ride either way.  Nice touch, Hugo continues to be riding a horse for this part of the game.  Anyway, we get to Brass Castle in a hurry.  : "Fighting's in progress, Hugo."Well, that means we haven't been defeated yet! : "Great. Let's go, Sergeant." Everything is super empty because all the civilians have evacuated. Except the shop owners, they're still here.   The Zexens are making their stand against the Harmonians, with Roland and Salome leading them a little off-screen in this shot.  : "Do not retreat! Push them back!"  : "Now's the time to show the strength of the Zexen Knights!": "Salome!!!" He turns his head a little as our group approaches, but keeps facing the enemy.  : "Oh, sir!" : "I don't know how to thank you enough!": "Hugo, here they come!" Yes, come to me. Come to your death.  Good.  Hugo's still faster than Emily.  Not by much, though, and she's still out-performing him.  Edge is next up. He's pretty decent considering this is his first battle, and him having swing high enough to hit twice is helping his case. Still, he'll get better as we go through these fights.  Our two tanks mop up. (That's a counter attack from Futch, there, who parried the hit coming at him.)  Viki does nothing, but that's okay. Hugo makes up for it.  The soldiers go down, and we get a bunch of levels for our trouble.  : "Phew! What's next?": "Sergeant! Incoming!" Here we go again.    It goes basically the same as before, and comes with even more levels.  Are they? Really? : "There's something strange about them." : "I noticed. And slowly but surely, they're pushing us back to the castle."Nice touch, they actually have been, if you look at the screens above again. We've been slowly moving closer to the gate, whereas we started pretty far out on the bridge.  : "Here they come again!!!" Nut-kicks for great justice.  Hugo's picked up an extra swing in one of his most recent levels, bringing him up to four.  Edge and Joe level up once more, but everyone else stays at 54. Also, we get this rune, which guarantees item drops but reduces accuracy a little.  We're getting pretty close to that gate, guys. : "What's going on? They come one after another, and they never retreat, either!"See, these fights aren't actually very difficult, like the ones against the monsters could be as Geddoe. These soldiers aren't here to stall us, though. They're here to overwhelm us, and they have the numbers to do so. It doesn't matter how good we are, if we're up against an unending force, we will lose. : "Lord Salome, we can't retreat any further!!" I feel like that'd be better served as two separate text boxes.   The soldiers part to let Luc, Sarah, and Yuber through.  : "You!!!": "You, wizard! What are you up to?" : "I am merely taking over the True Rune. It's too much of a burden for you to bear -- both the rune and the title!" : "Don't toy with me. Not today!": "That's..."Oh, right, Caesar was here too. He was just hiding somewhere until things settled down a little. Speaking of, I wonder where Albert is.   : "What?": "Now I will seize your rune...." That thing is so gross looking when it doesn't have a True Rune in it. What are those, eyeballs?   Hugo erupts into flames, and then falls to his knees. It looks pretty painful, actually.  You know, in the manga, neither Hugo nor Chris lose their True Runes.  Duckdad is concerned for his featherless baby. : "Ugh! Yeah." : "Now that the Five Elemental Runes have been brought together, I'll get my wish." He dissappears the True Runes.  And starts to leave.   : "Agreed. Do as you wish. I simply desire a good fight with plenty of blood and the screams of the dying."Yuber is a simple man of simple pleasures. : "drat! Hold it." : "Why are you trying to do this? Why do you want to take the lives of so many people?" Luc hesitates. : "I always answer a good question. I'm going to destroy the fifth True Rune with the other four I've collected. Simple, eh?": "I don't understand!" Well, a God, but...  Luc looks a little grumpy about their revelation, but I feel like it's more of a "well, jeez, finally" kind of grump than anything else. : "Absolutely. Bravo! You guessed right."I feel like this line would be fun to hear voiced. : "But why?!" : "To destroy a rune is to clash with fate and destroy God. The act unleashes the uncontrollable power of the rune. I warn you, it is much worse than the release of the Flame Champion's True Fire Rune and the True Water Rune." Something I really like about this exchange is that Caesar is trying to talk some sense into Luc, but Luc just doesn't care. He knows how insane his plan sounds, but he's going to go through with it anyway. Also, long live the Island Nations? Since they're not on the continent, they'd be okay, maybe. : "Why would anyone want to do that?": "Wouldn't any prisoner seek freedom?": "We're prisoners?" I think that number is wrong, but please continue. : "They have been caught in the web of conflicts between the True Runes. I've witnessed them. And I've experienced the other memories held by the True Wind Rune.": "So...": "The world is really a prison controlled by the True Runes."He's seen it. He's been through two wars caused by True Runes, and has started a third. He's done with True Runes.  : "Then your definition of freedom is the ability to walk around a giant cell with an invisible leash around your neck."So done with True Runes. Probably done with optimistic youthlads, too.  He starts to walk off. : "Don't even think about leaving! You have to defeat me first!"Fun fact, Hugo. Luc, right at this moment, has all of the Elemental True Runes. He could crush you with every imaginable force of nature. At once. You probably shouldn't tempt him. : "No time for that, I'm afraid. I'm done preparing for the ritual. The four True Runes are already inside the vessel, waiting. I just have to enter its center." See, this is why I will defend Luc as a character. He's been through so much poo poo, and been dicked around by multiple True Runes for his entire life, and realized that all True Runes are assholes. But he's not going to let them pull their poo poo anymore. He's going to completely destroy one of them in order to gently caress with the lot of them and throw them out of whack, and if he's got to destroy himself and most of the continent to get that done, then he is going to do it. I don't think he's right, per se, but I can't fault him at the same time. : "Stop right there!" : "Farewell, Hugo."  He teleports away.   You know what's absolutely amazing about this whole conversation Hugo just had with Luc?  He was stalling for time waiting for reinforcements. Also that text bubble doesn't make much sense. ALSO, Luc already left, Chris. I mean, I guess Sarah falls under that category as well, but...   : "This is also the wish of our sister in the spiritual world."  : "Shoot!"  Sarah nods.  She begins to cast.  But falters. : "What's happening?!" We were never fighting Harmonian troops. : "What the...?": "Another illusion. We were fighting demonic phantoms created by that mage, again."That's why they weren't afraid of death, and that's why they weren't retreating.  He looks ready to tear us all some new assholes.  : "drat! We almost made it!"  Given Sarah's condition, he teleports away instead.  The monsters vanish with them. : "Oh my!!!! This is too much!" Battle won, I guess? Next time, the last two strategy battles of the game.
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Mar 20, 2015 06:19
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Alright, Luc wanting to dick over the True Runes as a motivation is pretty good. Pity it's also pretty selfish and apocalyptic or else he'd have a lot more allies for doing so. Also I'm betting his plan is going to backfire on him hilariously because True Runes aren't as stupid as everyone seems to want to think.
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Mar 20, 2015 06:39
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luc is the true hero of this game
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Mar 20, 2015 06:47
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I'm pretty sure that the vessels are essentially artificial humans. It gets explained in game but suffice to say it's pretty icky.
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Mar 20, 2015 06:56
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yokaiy posted:See, this is why I will defend Luc as a character. He's been through so much poo poo, and been dicked around by multiple True Runes for his entire life, and realized that all True Runes are assholes. But he's not going to let them pull their poo poo anymore. He's going to completely destroy one of them in order to gently caress with the lot of them and throw them out of whack, and if he's got to destroy himself and most of the continent to get that done, then he is going to do it. I've never beaten this game so I may be wildly off base here but I can find plenty of fault with Luc here. A lot of times in fiction (and in real life, sadly) the death toll of a catastrophic event like what Luc is planning is sort of downplayed. "A single death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is a statistic" as the saying goes. To really grasp the true horror of an event like this you've got to think in terms of every single person who would be affected by it, of the mothers who would try, and fail, to protect their children as this cataclysm hurtles towards them. Of the infants who are born on to die in the horror of an apocalypse. And most importantly, of all the puppies and kittens who would be literally torn to shreds by Luc's scheme. Luc aspires not just to murder puppies and kittens, but to murder ALL of the puppies and kittens. What Luc is saying here is basically that, since everyone is a "slave" to the true runes, their lives have no meaning. Better for everyone, literally everyone, to die in service of my cause than to live under my enemy's thumb. Ultimately though, Luc isn't any different from what he's trying to stop, he's sacrificing other people's lives to further his own agenda with no regard for their wants or their well-being. He's making everyone a slave to his will, the only difference is his time table is way shorter. Luc is the villain, and he's shown himself to be beyond reasoning with. He needs to be put down, and put down hard.
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Mar 20, 2015 07:05
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Well, we are supposed to think Luc is wrong. I mean, we gotta go fight him later. But this is a Suikoden game, the series that puts actual thought into its antagonists (except when it doesn't but hey). The idea is to give him a motive that we can follow despite his being wrong. Now, there is more to his spiel here than he's already said, but we'll set that aside for a minute. Luc's speculation here is that by destroying one True Rune, their hold on destiny would be broken. They would exist, but their power to influence wars and the like would diminish to nothing. Supposing that held true, his plan makes a certain sense. After all, thousands died in each battle of the Toran Liberation, Muse was functionally wiped off the map when Luca sacrificed it to the Beast Rune, who knows how many villages Harmonia erased from history just to get one dormant True Rune. From his phrasing, destroying a True Rune would definitely wipe out the Grasslands, and probably take out Harmonia (and, judging from the geography, most of Dunan as well), as well as the northern outlands, whatever the hell is out there. That's something like half or so of the known world, as revealed through all five games, though at the time Suikoden III was made that would have been more like 80% of the known world, sparing only part of Toran. Now, given the overall scope of the Suikoden world, I would absolutely speculate that there's another continent or two on the other hemisphere, but given the degree to which Harmonia outstrips the rest of the world technologically it is most likely the most populated part of it. So we'd probably figure about a third of the human population would die here. However, if Luc's reasoning is sound, he's essentially killing roughly as many people as if all 27 True Runes were involved in a war at once, but then allowing the population to recover over time. Put in those terms, assuming a fatalistic view of the cosmos, drastic action now to prevent a recurring cycle of Rune Wars that would cause many more deaths over time isn't an unreasonable view. Of course that's not really thinking very clearly about it. We can reasonably infer from his statements that the Rune he's going to destroy is True Wind, ie a True Rune bound to his soul which he also plans to destroy. Destroying the primordial source of... air. Even if it's literally only destroying wind, the overall effect on the world would be almost immediate and devastating. No weather, no plant life, basically the end of any sustainable ecosystem. I suppose True Runes may not literally be what causes the forces they represent to exist, but honestly that doesn't match up to how the lore is presented. Oddly, he'd be better served to blow the gently caress out of the True Fire Rune. Sure, fire not existing would pretty much end civilization, but hey, eventually you could work out how to use electricity for most of those purposes, and the Sun would still exist for more mundane uses.
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Mar 20, 2015 09:24
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Alacron posted:What Luc is saying here is basically that, since everyone is a "slave" to the true runes, their lives have no meaning. Better for everyone, literally everyone, to die in service of my cause than to live under my enemy's thumb. Ultimately though, Luc isn't any different from what he's trying to stop, he's sacrificing other people's lives to further his own agenda with no regard for their wants or their well-being. He's making everyone a slave to his will, the only difference is his time table is way shorter. Oh certainly. Luc is definitely a villain and must be put down hard but he's the type of villain that tends to be interesting: they have a rather accurate view of the problem (True Runes cause a lot of bad stuff) but a totally insane solution to it (Blowing one up.) He's a little off base in the former since True Runes are power and the people pursuing that power are the reason for wars and such happen around them. His solution is also something that sounds like he's window-dressing his selfish desire into a selfless one a bit. He's done being a pawn of the True Runes but rather than concocting an elaborate scheme to off himself and seal the True Wind Rune away where it will inevitably be unsealed later, he has instead concocted an elaborate scheme to go out with a bang and change the world. He might say he's doing it for a good reason but really he doesn't care. I still have to appreciate that he got someone to follow him on it. Meaning Sarah since Yuber would totally blow up the world if he thought it would be a good and bloody fight.
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Mar 20, 2015 09:48
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What Chris was saying about the "power of the runes not being real" is probably more calling out that Sarah's soldiers are just phantoms. As for Luc... The problem with his plan is that he can't actually know what would happen. It's not like a True Rune has been destroyed before.
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Mar 20, 2015 10:04
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Really, all he's doing is testing a crazy-rear end theory that, if wrong, could annihilate life as we know it, and if right, most certainly would. Because he's seen way too much poo poo. You know, he used to be Leknaat's apprentice. I wonder which of her pointless, vague "destiny" ramblings finally pushed him over the edge.
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Mar 20, 2015 10:48
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Tallgeese posted:As for Luc... The problem with his plan is that he can't actually know what would happen. It's not like a True Rune has been destroyed before. Joke's on Luc if it turns out that the 27 True Runes function according to Highlander rules and destroying one just makes the other 26 stronger.
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Mar 20, 2015 10:58
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Oh, yeah. Luc is pretty firmly in bad-guy territory. He's also pretty firmly in going-overboard territory, but at the same time, he's got the balls to go against the True Runes, and that is something that I respect. Same way I respect Graham Cray cutting off his own arm to get away from his True Rune. He's still super wrong, and there are a lot of problems with his plan, but his heart is in the right place. Or was, at some point.CmdrKing posted:Of course that's not really thinking very clearly about it. We can reasonably infer from his statements that the Rune he's going to destroy is True Wind, ie a True Rune bound to his soul which he also plans to destroy. Destroying the primordial source of... air. Even if it's literally only destroying wind, the overall effect on the world would be almost immediate and devastating. No weather, no plant life, basically the end of any sustainable ecosystem. I suppose True Runes may not literally be what causes the forces they represent to exist, but honestly that doesn't match up to how the lore is presented. Yeah, this. There are other True Runes I feel like could be destroyed with fewer disastrous consequences. Personally, and though it pains me because it's the best, I feel like destroying True Lightning would be the most sensible option. We need Water and Wind for life to be able to function, we need Earth because we live on it, and we need Fire for society to prosper. Lightning is a little more vague. Or, hell. March back to Harmonia and destroy the Circle Rune. No one needs that one, and he's already lost Harmonia's backing, if him not bringing real soldiers to the party is anything to go by. Testekill posted:I'm pretty sure that the vessels are essentially artificial humans. It gets explained in game but suffice to say it's pretty icky. Yeah, it gets explained.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:14
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EponymousMrYar posted:Alright, Luc wanting to dick over the True Runes as a motivation is pretty good. I think it's the only way we've ever seen to dick over True Runes, though. Like, with 108 stars you can get a small "gently caress you, we're doing it my way this time" in against fate, but that still generally involves the runes doing the thing that they do. Alacron posted:Better for everyone, literally everyone, to die in service of my cause than to live under my enemy's thumb. Aw come on, there's more than one continent. It's only, like, 50% of literally everyone at most.  CmdrKing posted:After all, thousands died in each battle of the Toran Liberation I got curious, so I went and looked that up. Provided I didn't miss anything, the opposition in the war battles you can actually win, alone, adds up to 81700 people. The final death toll from that conflict must be well into six digits. EponymousMrYar posted:He's a little off base in the former since True Runes are power and the people pursuing that power are the reason for wars and such happen around them. The guy cackling like an rear end in a top hat and going "Power! Infinite POWER!" is definitely a big part of the problem, but the runes certainly have some kind of will on their own, as well. In particular, in 1 Ted blames Soul Eater for having "evil intentions" and causing several wars during the time he bore it. yokaiy posted:There are other True Runes I feel like could be destroyed with fewer disastrous consequences. This is only speculation at this point, since the actual role of the runes isn't very well defined. Like, most of them could potentially gently caress over everything if the thing they represent is lost. Would destroying Night literally cause night to never fall again, anywhere? I don't know how that would work, but it could cause some issues. Does destroying Sun/Moon actually destroy the sun or moon? Well gently caress. Without Lightning, would all electricity cease to exist? That's... not good at all. If you destroyed Punishment (WORTH IT) would you destroy the concept of sin or guilt, causing no one to feel bad about anything ever again? (STILL WORTH IT.) Start loving with Circle and Change, which are basically Law and Chaos, and it sounds like a recipe for Thor nuking Japan and YHVH trying to exterminate humanity by means of a giant orbital laser cannon. And so on. ...And then you have the Dragon Rune. The destruction of which would... make Futch very sad. Again. So clearly that is off the table, I'm sure you'd all agree. vilkacis fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 17:36
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vilkacis posted:I got curious, so I went and looked that up. Provided I didn't miss anything, the opposition in the war battles you can actually win, alone, adds up to 81700 people. it's pretty funny to think about tens of thousands of deaths being caused by Milich's doucheflower.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:37
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vilkacis posted:Start loving with Circle and Change, which are basically Law and Chaos, and it sounds like a recipe for Thor nuking Japan and YHVH trying to exterminate humanity by means of a giant orbital laser cannon. And so on. So you're telling me that the SMT series is a post-apocalyptic Suikoden where Harmonia and the Sindar annihilated each other?
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Mar 20, 2015 18:57
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You know, it does line up. Harmonia is the coolest nation in the series with the best fashion sense, after all.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:01
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Poque posted:it's pretty funny to think about tens of thousands of deaths being caused by Milich's doucheflower. I'm pretty sure it sticks to four digits on screen. ...Still a pretty good body count, though. KataraniSword posted:So you're telling me that the SMT series is a post-apocalyptic Suikoden where Harmonia and the Sindar annihilated each other? Yes, and good riddance, too. Tallgeese posted:Harmonia is the coolest nation in the series with the best fashion sense, after all.  Harmonia has one instance of Cool Hat (Yuber being an independent faction), and that hat was tragically lost somewhere between 2 and 3. Meanwhile, Armes has had multiple instances of Cool Hat on display. Furthermore, Harmonia is bigger, which obviously means Armes has a much higher Cool Hat quotient per citizen and clearly wins the fashion contest.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:18
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vilkacis posted:Without Lightning, would all electricity cease to exist? That's... not good at all. Thats an understatement: electricity is one of the forces that keep atoms toghether: without electricity EVERYTHING would disintegrate.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:16
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Guy Fawkes posted:Thats an understatement: electricity is one of the forces that keep atoms toghether: without electricity EVERYTHING would disintegrate. I'm no scientist, but doesn't a good chunk of the human body consist of atoms that are at their base, air molecules? Without air, everyone would disintegrate AND suffocate. That's not great, is it mate? ...Okay, I'll stop now.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:33
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Bufuman posted:I'm no scientist, but doesn't a good chunk of the human body consist of atoms that are at their base, air molecules? Without air, everyone would disintegrate AND suffocate. That's not great, is it mate? ...Okay, I'll stop now. I'd like to participate, but I don't think I should take the bait.
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Mar 20, 2015 23:20
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yokaiy posted:
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Mar 20, 2015 23:25
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yokaiy posted:
Except the Circle Rune is basically the closest thing the Suikoden world has to the manifestation of Order. Blow that up, and existence itself is thrown out of balance as we wave goodbye to peace and harmony as concepts. Best-case scenario, you get anarchy and other forms of interpersonal chaos as government and society figuratively and literally collapse. Worst-case scenario? A hellspace where reason and logic fail, and existence as we could even comprehend it ceases to be. The only runes I could think of that could be destroyed and not screw the world over would be the Dragon Rune (sucks to be Joshua/Milia but them's the breaks), and the Sovereign Rune, which represents absolute rule. And even then, I'm sure there'd still be some fundamental flaw in existence. vilkacis posted:
Except! If Armes was such a fashionable land, then why did Josephine, a noted and celebrated fashion expert, depart Armes for the Queendom of Falena?
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Mar 21, 2015 04:56
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Verant posted:Except! If Armes was such a fashionable land, then why did Josephine, a noted and celebrated fashion expert, depart Armes for the Queendom of Falena? Josephine had a very specific sense of style. Her brother and his entourage were uncultured barbarians to her.
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Mar 21, 2015 05:01
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Verant posted:
Removing Dragons from the ecosystem leads to a food chain collapse where the dragons prey overreproduce due to losing their predator and their overconsumption is felt all the way down. You monster.
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Mar 21, 2015 14:56
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Also,yokaiy posted:
This has always bothered me. I mean, c'mon, assuming that he's talking about the Sword and Shield creation myth and not some other war with that name, the Suikoden world can't really be only a millennia old, right? Was that line a mistranslation or was it in the original text as well? I'd love to know the reasoning for it. I wish we had some word from God on bits of lore like this, but I figure that Murayama went insane and is now living on a deserted island or something.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E7mQ4w0lr8
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Mar 21, 2015 15:40
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best possible outcome.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:53
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Verant posted:The only runes I could think of that could be destroyed and not screw the world over would be the Dragon Rune (sucks to be Joshua/Milia but them's the breaks), and the Sovereign Rune, which represents absolute rule. And even then, I'm sure there'd still be some fundamental flaw in existence. NameHurtBrain posted:Removing Dragons from the ecosystem leads to a food chain collapse where the dragons prey overreproduce due to losing their predator and their overconsumption is felt all the way down. You monster. And no Sovereign Rune would mean no forms of government, which would turn every major gathering of people into a lawless hell. Nothing would ever get done, and civilization as we know it would collapse. Sure, people would live, but you can't call that living. Now, after looking at the True Rune list, the only two that might not have much of an effect on the Suikoworld would be Gate Rune and possibly the Rune of Beginning. Gate Rune's power to connect worlds doesn't sound like it's the kind of thing one relies upon in daily life (unless some vital part of the ecosystem comes from another world, but so far I think we've only seen malevolent beings, like that tree thing from Suikoden 4), and Beginning's only function seems to be starting wars and then resolving them (by way of making a dude kill his dearest friend), so unless destroying it would mean no end to ANY wars (could they even be started without beginning in the picture? Does it govern all war?) losing that one would be a definite improvement. Luc's problem is that getting either one would be difficult for him. He'd probably have to fight Leknaat for the Gate Rune, and while he could probably kill her (she doesn't seem to have any direct combat power, if S1 is any indication), I don't know if he has it in him to off his mentor, who might very well be the only person he cares for in the world (possibly Sarah as well). Resolving to destroy yourself is one thing, but people are weird when their loved ones are involved. And he would have no way of getting Beginning if we're going by S2's True End, since Riou and Jowy hold half the rune, and are highly unlikely to kill each other now that they've resolved their issues.
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Mar 21, 2015 19:11
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What is the Soul Eater Rune good for? That thing is capital E Evil, why didn't Luc destroy that one?
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Mar 21, 2015 21:41
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Elric posted:What is the Soul Eater Rune good for? That thing is capital E Evil, why didn't Luc destroy that one? Since there isn't an opposing rune to that, it probably isn't that easy to destroy. Especially since Tir is likely bad assed enough to withstand Yuber and Lucs attack, also considering if they could find him. Kind of shocked Geddoe went down that easy, but I could imagine Chris and Hugo being easy to take it away from. The elemental runes and their Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock relationship would allow him to nuke himself, plus since it'd be in the center of that magic circle it wouldn't be able to get away, rather than if he just used the True Earth rune or some other unilateral attack that would let it slink or get blasted away.
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Mar 21, 2015 21:59
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Elric posted:What is the Soul Eater Rune good for? That thing is capital E Evil, why didn't Luc destroy that one? Isn't it the rune of Death? I would think that nothing being able to die would not be good.
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Mar 21, 2015 22:06
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Elric posted:What is the Soul Eater Rune good for? That thing is capital E Evil, why didn't Luc destroy that one? The full name of that one is the True Rune of Life and Death. That would pretty much mean the end of the concepts of life and death. Things would simply... Exist. Nothing past that.
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Mar 21, 2015 22:20
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I think we're all missing the obvious choice. Why the hell isn't he going after the Beast Rune?
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Mar 21, 2015 22:37
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Hunter Noventa posted:I think we're all missing the obvious choice. Beast rune - rune of animalistic rage and passion (according to the wiki). Maybe we don't need the rage bit (but life as a bunch of zen monks seems sorta dull), but no passion? Blech.
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Mar 21, 2015 22:41
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I think we're running out of True Runes we could potentially destroy instead of the elemental ones. So far, the Gate Rune is the only one sounding more feasible than Wind, and that's like the one that Luc probably wouldn't go after, in light of it belonging to Leknaat. Though, doesn't she only have half of that one anyway? Also, I wonder if destroying it would affect the Dragon Rune too, since that's also kind of a dimensional rune? Or is it just the dragons that are dimensional and not the rune itself? Dragons are confusing in this series. Xander77 posted:Stop sayin' it like a wimp! Can't you say 'Move out!' or somethin'? Very well, I accept this offering of music. Next time, I'll sally forth in a more dignified and aggressive manner. Tallgeese posted:You know, it does line up. vilkacis posted:
Verant posted:
Remind me to draw Sasarai and Shula having a pose-off or something.
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Mar 21, 2015 23:05
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