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Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

tom bombadil wouldve gone all dingalong dillo and wouldnt give a gently caress about sauron and gandalf probably just visited him to relax

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Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Shibawanko posted:

i still think they shouldve been filmed in scotland or iceland though, the landscape i picture reading the books is primordial-european, new zealand is a bit too rocky and grand

I've groused about this before too, I mean of course everyone's mental picture is independently valuable but I feel like some things really ought to have been established more clearly and obviously —

- Anduin should have been like Danube-sized at least
- the Misty Mountains I always imagined being super prominent, a line of towering snowcapped peaks you could see from the foothills/valleys like the Rockies Front Range from Denver; the way the movie did it they just sort of gradually kept climbing until hey snow
- Rohan is supposed to be rolling gentle grasslands -- the rocky poo poo in the movie would have been absolute hell on horses

Still love the establishing shot of Edoras against the White Mountains though

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

Data Graham posted:

I've groused about this before too, I mean of course everyone's mental picture is independently valuable but I feel like some things really ought to have been established more clearly and obviously —

- Anduin should have been like Danube-sized at least
- the Misty Mountains I always imagined being super prominent, a line of towering snowcapped peaks you could see from the foothills/valleys like the Rockies Front Range from Denver; the way the movie did it they just sort of gradually kept climbing until hey snow
- Rohan is supposed to be rolling gentle grasslands -- the rocky poo poo in the movie would have been absolute hell on horses

Still love the establishing shot of Edoras against the White Mountains though

i particularly despised the depiction of mirkwood in the hobbit movies, the scenes were way too short but i especially liked to picture mirkwood as an endless ocean, in the style of the Scandinavian or Russian taiga, of samey giant trees with quiet darkness underneath and the path as just this perfectly straight road going on forever, the description in the books gave it a real fairy tale sense of being lost in the woods that didnt show in the movies at all, besides everything else that was wrong with them. theres a scene where bilbo climbs up to the top of a tree and he sees nothing but more forest and some mountains sticking out in the distance, it's a great visual representation of the anxiety of not being anywhere near the border of the forest and sort of drowning in it

none of the movies do a good forest scene, the old forest was cut even though it's one of the most enjoyable bits, the part in the shire where they first meet the elves in woody end was also cut and is usually forgotten, mirkwood was butchered and fangorn was given a generic treatment with no sense of scale and comedy ents

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





The Rankin-Bass Hobbit really captured the gently caress out of Mirkwood, and really pretty much everything huh.

Runcible Cat
May 28, 2007

A post? Never!!

Pillbug

Shibawanko posted:

i dont like adaptations of the books that make the world seem too populated, a big part of what makes the books enjoyable to me is that theyre wandering a basically abandoned wilderness all the way up to gondor. the impression you get from the books is that the shire and bree are tiny oases and that the rest of eriador is just barrow downs and abandoned ruins and swamps with maybe a few ranger camps or something. videogames based on the books always do this because it's hard to make a game without NPC's i guess

this is one thing the movies actually did get mostly right

There must be other people around somewhere - Bree has occasional refugees coming up the Greenway going wherever - NE Eriador? Ered Luin? Settling in the local villages? And there used to be people around where the Hobbit's trolls were who moved out when the trolls moved in.

But yeah, I like the whole empty-landscape-with-occasional-ruins thing too.

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007


Plus the people the wolves and goblins were planning to attack in the Hobbit, and Esgaroth and Dale, and the Iron Hills, and later the Beornings. It probably just reflects a medieval world where the only big populations would be on ports, rivers, and trade crossroads. Otherwise lots of wilderness and farmland between. People didn't build cities in the middle of nowhere until railroads and airplanes made it possible.

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

Runcible Cat posted:

There must be other people around somewhere - Bree has occasional refugees coming up the Greenway going wherever - NE Eriador? Ered Luin? Settling in the local villages? And there used to be people around where the Hobbit's trolls were who moved out when the trolls moved in.

But yeah, I like the whole empty-landscape-with-occasional-ruins thing too.

i was always under the impression that the greenway guys were mostly half-orc types from isengard and maybe dunland and tharbad, and that they were headed towards angmar or other shady places, but that the general area around the bree and the shire was totally abandoned

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

Ask me about my dream Frasier episode where Frasier and Bulldog oil their heads and then rub them together. It's definitely not a fetish of mine, I swear!

Data Graham posted:

The Rankin-Bass Hobbit really captured the gently caress out of Mirkwood, and really pretty much everything huh.

Best adaptation so far.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009





Runcible Cat posted:

There must be other people around somewhere - Bree has occasional refugees coming up the Greenway going wherever - NE Eriador? Ered Luin? Settling in the local villages? And there used to be people around where the Hobbit's trolls were who moved out when the trolls moved in.

But yeah, I like the whole empty-landscape-with-occasional-ruins thing too.

me is populated everywhere but it just doesn’t come into the story much. Also the story’s racism makes us discount the people that live there and not count them

Runcible Cat
May 28, 2007

A post? Never!!

Pillbug

Shibawanko posted:

i was always under the impression that the greenway guys were mostly half-orc types from isengard and maybe dunland and tharbad, and that they were headed towards angmar or other shady places, but that the general area around the bree and the shire was totally abandoned

quote:

The Men and Dwarves were mostly talking of distant events and telling news of a kind that was becoming only too familiar. There was trouble away in the South, and it seemed that the Men who had come up the Greenway were on the move, looking for lands where they could find some peace. The Bree-folk were sympathetic, but plainly not very ready to take a large number of strangers into their little land. One of the travellers, a squint-eyed ill-favoured fellow, was foretelling that more and more people would be coming north in the near future. “If room isn’t found for them, they’ll find it for themselves. They’ve a right to live, same as other folk,” he said loudly. The local inhabitants did not look pleased at the prospect.

Open to interpretation, but sounds like most of them just want to get the hell away from Isengard/Mordor/impending war and invasion.

euphronius posted:

me is populated everywhere but it just doesn't come into the story much. Also the story's racism makes us discount the people that live there and not count them

So yeah, probably this. But there's enough trade going up and down for Saruman to get his hands on barrels of high-quality Shire smokeables at least.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009





Theodan runs into the Pukelmen behind Minas Tirith and everyone was like “holy poo poo we had no idea u dudes were even here”

I would count orcs as people also and there are tons of them everywhere

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Shibawanko posted:

i particularly despised the depiction of mirkwood in the hobbit movies,

It's too goddamn small. It feels like they cross it in a day and that's just compounded when Legolas and Tauriel take a few hours to go from the Lonely Mountain to Mount Gundabad and back in the third movie.

I did like the EE scene with the enchanted stream though.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Cat_(poem)

The fat cat on the mat
may seem to dream
of nice mice that suffice
for him, or cream;
but he free, maybe,
walks in thought
unbowed, proud, where loud
roared and fought
his kin, lean and slim,
or deep in den
in the East feasted on beasts
and tender men.

The giant lion with iron
claw in paw,
and huge ruthless tooth
in gory jaw;
the pard, dark-starred,
fleet upon feet,
that oft soft from aloft
leaps on his meat
where woods loom in gloom--
far now they be,
fierce and free,
and tamed is he;
but fat cat on the mat
kept as a pet,
he does not forget.

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Felis Catus
is your taxonomic nomenclature
An endothermic quadruped
carnivorous by nature...

Kilson
Jan 16, 2003

I EAT LITTLE CHILDREN FOR BREAKFAST !!11!!1!!!!111!

Mahoning posted:

Felis Catus
is your taxonomic nomenclature
An endothermic quadruped
carnivorous by nature...

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

Ask me about my dream Frasier episode where Frasier and Bulldog oil their heads and then rub them together. It's definitely not a fetish of mine, I swear!

The 2700's were a real lovely century to be a dwarf.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



https://twitter.com/Megadestructo/s...811336329920512

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

GEORGIE?



Oh look, it's a bingo card for us social workers!

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



Tree Bucket posted:

Oh look, it's a bingo card for us social workers!

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007


I saw a meme tonight that made me realize that Gandalf is to the Hobbit/LOTR books as The Flash is to comics: the writer always has to figure out a reason why he doesn't solve every problem in 2 seconds, so he's always loving off somewhere at the worst possible moment for everybody else. Also note that, like the Flash, when he DOES eventually show back up to rescue his friends, he does solve everything in 2 seconds.



Seriously, think about the times Gandalf hosed off:

- The Hobbit: With the trolls
- The Hobbit: With the goblins
- The Hobbit: Mirkwood all the way through to the Battle of Five Armies
- LOTR: Before Frodo leaves the Shire.
- LOTR: The entire bit between escaping the mines of Moria, Lothlorien, the river, the death of Boromir, Frodo & Sam loving off, Pippin & Merry getting captured by orcs, the three hunters through Rohan, Fangorn, and the ents marching to war on Isengard
- LOTR: He fucks off from the entire battle of the Pelennor Fields, including potentially fighting the Witch King, to deal with Denethor, and then to care for Faramir, Merry, and Eowyn.

Imagined fucked around with this message at 12:50 on May 27, 2020

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

he isnt omnipotent though and can be killed, and he's scared out of his rear end of the ring

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Shibawanko posted:

he isnt omnipotent though and can be killed, and he's scared out of his rear end of the ring
I fully acknowledge how dumb and bad the whole thing is, but I nevertheless get a visceral thrill at the Sauron/Gandalf mini-battle in the second Hobbit movie.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





I dunno guys, this sounds like a big plot hole to me

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

dwarf74 posted:

I fully acknowledge how dumb and bad the whole thing is, but I nevertheless get a visceral thrill at the Sauron/Gandalf mini-battle in the second Hobbit movie.

i think that movie shouldve been about the silmarillion instead of the hobbit and just have it be the war of wrath and just elves and stuff killing demons

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



sweet geek swag posted:

On the recommendation of this thread I got the Lord of the Rings audio book. This Inglis guy is really good. It isn't what I expected, but that kind of makes it better. It gives me a new voice to hear the books from, which is refreshing.

Started listening to them, and yeah, Inglis is great.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



ChubbyChecker posted:

Started listening to them, and yeah, Inglis is great.

He is good, although I think he just dives into the songs with no preparation and it gives me serious fremdschämen. I salute his enormous balls for recording these songs completely unaccompanied, though.

I wonder if Tolkien actually sang all his songs aloud to try them out? Some of them feel a little clunky when I read through, but of course I've got no idea how he intended them to sound.

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Wait til you get to his Gollum voice. It’s pretty great.

GimpInBlack
Sep 27, 2012

That's right, kids, take lots of drugs, leave the universe behind, and pilot Enlightenment Voltron out into the cosmos to meet Alien Jesus.


Pham Nuwen posted:

He is good, although I think he just dives into the songs with no preparation and it gives me serious fremdschämen. I salute his enormous balls for recording these songs completely unaccompanied, though.

I wonder if Tolkien actually sang all his songs aloud to try them out? Some of them feel a little clunky when I read through, but of course I've got no idea how he intended them to sound.

He definitely did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyse_kLOc-o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haSiiaA5PgQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mprH_47QvSM (This is the best one IMHO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zia4sWMQIgc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oIjC-qHZ4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDDNHoJZA-0 (This is a close second)

There are a bunch more on that YouTube channel, and they're all pretty fantastic.

EDIT: How could I leave out Tolkien reading the Song of Beren and Luthien? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i917V3R76Uo

EDIT2: Okay dammit, one more, Here's Tolkien actually singing Namárië. I'd heard recordings of him reciting it before, but never actually singing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHw6RQWDSTw

GimpInBlack fucked around with this message at 14:47 on May 27, 2020

Runcible Cat
May 28, 2007

A post? Never!!

Pillbug

Imagined posted:

I saw a meme tonight that made me realize that Gandalf is to the Hobbit/LOTR books as The Flash is to comics: the writer always has to figure out a reason why he doesn't solve every problem in 2 seconds, so he's always loving off somewhere at the worst possible moment for everybody else. Also note that, like the Flash, when he DOES eventually show back up to rescue his friends, he does solve everything in 2 seconds.



Seriously, think about the times Gandalf hosed off:

- The Hobbit: With the trolls
- The Hobbit: With the goblins
- The Hobbit: Mirkwood all the way through to the Battle of Five Armies
- LOTR: Before Frodo leaves the Shire.
- LOTR: The entire bit between escaping the mines of Moria, Lothlorien, the river, the death of Boromir, Frodo & Sam loving off, Pippin & Merry getting captured by orcs, the three hunters through Rohan, Fangorn, and the ents marching to war on Isengard
- LOTR: He fucks off from the entire battle of the Pelennor Fields, including potentially fighting the Witch King, to deal with Denethor, and then to care for Faramir, Merry, and Eowyn.

To be fair in the last Hobbit one he shows up sitting in the elf camp with no obvious plan; it's Bilbo sneaking out with the Arkenstone/the goblins and wolves attacking that solves that standoff.

Shibawanko posted:

i think that movie shouldve been about the silmarillion instead of the hobbit and just have it be the war of wrath and just elves and stuff killing demons

And entire countries falling into the Sea!

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





I love how hastily he reads the Ent song

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



Pham Nuwen posted:

He is good, although I think he just dives into the songs with no preparation and it gives me serious fremdschämen. I salute his enormous balls for recording these songs completely unaccompanied, though.

I wonder if Tolkien actually sang all his songs aloud to try them out? Some of them feel a little clunky when I read through, but of course I've got no idea how he intended them to sound.

Hah, I'm just at the beginning, so the only poem I've encountered so far is the one about the Ring. I have a feeling that Bilbo at his birthday was a humorous self-deprecating self-insert:

All the one hundred and forty-four guests expected a pleasant feast; though they rather dreaded the after-dinner speech of their host (an inevitable item). He was liable to drag in bits of what he called poetry; and sometimes, after a glass or two, would allude to the absurd adventures of his mysterious journey.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





The Eärendil poem is even more of an Inklings shoutout, what with all the banter afterwards about the style and voice

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



Data Graham posted:

The Eärendil poem is even more of an Inklings shoutout, what with all the banter afterwards about the style and voice

Could you post or link it?

GimpInBlack
Sep 27, 2012

That's right, kids, take lots of drugs, leave the universe behind, and pilot Enlightenment Voltron out into the cosmos to meet Alien Jesus.


Data Graham posted:

I love how hastily he reads the Ent song

It wasn't until I heard him read it that I realized just how much it really does have the cadence of a military march.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!



Morbid Hound

https://twitter.com/theoneringnet/s...1772454912?s=20

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018




Could you elaborate?

FBS
Apr 27, 2015





ChubbyChecker posted:

Could you elaborate?

It's a thread, click through to read it all.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



FBS posted:

It's a thread, click through to read it all.

How about you post it in here instead.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

I am gently caressed by my SAnta


Fun Shoe

ChubbyChecker posted:

How about you post it in here instead.

Twitter threads aren't really "postable". You could link every single tweet individually, or people could just click on the tweet and read it on twitter.com

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Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


quote:

If we really are getting #ReleaseTheSnyderCut and #ReleaseTheAyerCut - two auteur filmmakers working at the top of their game whose franchise films were altered beyond recognition by Warner Bros studio execs - then we need to have a frank conversation about THE HOBBIT.

Peter Jackson's THE HOBBIT was probably the first tentpole that WB studio execs meddled in to ruin. Everything you hate about the film is from studio notes. When they got away with it on The Hobbit, #JusticeLeague and #SuicideSquard were next. Execs drunk with power.

There was no love triangle in The Hobbit script at any stage. Studio execs forced reshoots to include it. Director Peter Jackson fought against it as did star Evangeline Lilly. She was furious they did something new to her character that she didn't sign up for. And she was right

Fans reacted accordingly. The love triangle is just one of many things added during reshoots - per studio notes - that gave us the Hobbit trilogy as it currently exists. It's so antithetical to Tolkien that fans were offended. Whatever DC Comics fans have felt recently, WE GET IT

WB execs damaged The Hobbit long before reshoots. Guillermo del Toro's story hasn't been told yet. It's still the most painful loss of his career. He was so committed to The Hobbit he moved his family to another country, including his school-age kids. His passion was unmatched.

This wasn’t “turnaround hell.” GDT and Weta Workshop artists labored for 3 YEARS to develop the entire world and characters, then to not have the full confidence of WB studio to complete his vision is a curse in Entish. Then they did it again with Zack Snyder!!

A saving grace that Peter Jackson got, versus Snyder & Ayers, was The Appendices showing development of the film. Fan reaction turned from anger to empathy when PJ's stress was on full display behind the scenes. DC fans only got cryptic tweets from directors.

The Hobbit changed in the edit room. It had a fun script, an incredibly funny cast (with more comedians than a Judd Apatow film), over the top MoCap from Cumberbatch and Dame Edna, and was shot for laughs by Andrew Lesnie... then edited as an action film with no comedic pacing.

Comedies and children’s books don’t make a billion dollars. 3D films are the future!
- some studio exec, probably.

It's obvious Peter Jackson lost control to the studio after the first hour of the The Hobbit. The entire bag end sequence is perfect and true to Tolkien. There's 2 songs! And they work in context of a tentpole film! He was fighting so many battles just to complete the work.

Battle of the Five Armies was a warning sign to the entire DC film universe that the studio execs knew the control they wielded and had no problem flexing. We're very happy for @ZackSnyder and hopefully @DavidAyerMovies getting their films back.

There isn't another cut inside of Peter Jackson. He's exhausted. The Hobbit still made a billion dollars three times. Ringer fans will not get his complete vision, and more regretfully will never get Guillermo del Toro's masterpiece. But we have so much to be thankful for already

If there's anything Amazon @LOTRonPrime can learn from all this is Middle-earth is different. You need a creative team at the top of their game with an undying passion for Tolkien's writings. You need strong producers on both sides of the table to protect the creatives & source.

PS. The Hobbit trilogy is a fun series! You don’t make a billion dollars with a bad film! But choices were made that impacted the core themes of Tolkien and flabbergasted the core audience. Many LOTR die hards saw it and forgot it, not even giving the Extended Editions a watch 🤕

TRUST THE PEOPLE YOU HIRE. New Line Cinema did it best before WB dismantled it.

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