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webmeister posted:I would guess that a pretty significant fraction of people’s first exposure to The Hobbit was from someone reading it to them Oh yeah my mom did that She tried to read me LOTR afterwards but the Nazgul creeped me out too much and I didn't pick the book up for myself until my early teens
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May 7, 2021 19:04
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Reread LotR and I got a chuckle out of Saruman saying that the orc calls him sharkû and that it's possible that it's a respected title when in reality it's just an orkish word meaning "old man".
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May 8, 2021 14:57
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Alhazred posted:Reread LotR and I got a chuckle out of Saruman saying that the orc calls him sharkû and that it's possible that it's a respected title when in reality it's just an orkish word meaning "old man". I also like that bit but I always read it as Saruman saying it with a bit of self-awareness and irony.
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May 8, 2021 15:03
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Saruman doesn't know what those words mean though. I also liked that Gandalf started suspecting that something was going on the Shire when he noticed that Saruman had Shire leaf in Orthanc. But probably didn't aired those suspicion because it would probably distract the hobbits and scouring the Shire wasn't part of his mission.
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May 8, 2021 15:25
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Alhazred posted:Reread LotR and I got a chuckle out of Saruman saying that the orc calls him sharkû and that it's possible that it's a respected title when in reality it's just an orkish word meaning "old man". And then he starts calling himself "Sharkey" after he goes to the Shire.
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May 8, 2021 16:41
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Again, though, people often adopt slurs and pejoratives to describe themselves. To me if you end a sentence with "possibly", you're expressing doubt about what you just said, especially in the context of talking about your own slaves: "Possibly a sign of affection" vs "A sign of affection possibly."
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May 9, 2021 02:19
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I read "Sharkey" as being not entirely unlike "Gaffer"; a double-edged term of endearment, both respectful and patronising according to taste, for a much-reduced creaking old fart who now holds court for all and sundry (the latter being those who could not go out by another gate) so the Kids These Days can benefit from hearing his epic storytelling of his former glories. Aaaah, there goes Sharkey again, bless, remember when he sent the host to Helm's Deep? Those were the days. Wish he wouldn't go on quite as much about them when there's still work to be done putting up these sheds, he loves the sound of his own voice you know...
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May 9, 2021 02:27
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Yeah, I could totally see an organization where the boss is called "the old man" in english as a neutral, mixed, or endearing nickname. It doesn't have to be an insult.
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May 9, 2021 02:45
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NikkolasKing posted:Also by the time of the Third Age the old powers are pretty much waning and all but gone. Durin's Bane is the only other corrutped Maia we know of and it's stated Sauron knew of it but wasn't gonna try and mess with him or recruit him. Been a while since I read the books; where/when is it explicitly stated that Sauron was aware of Durin's Bane?
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May 9, 2021 11:40
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Been a while since I read the books; where/when is it explicitly stated that Sauron was aware of Durin's Bane? there were some mordor orcs visiting moria when the fellowship got there, but i don't recall how early did he know
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May 9, 2021 18:10
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The Dwarves getting thrown out of Moria was a major incident in the Third Age and the Balrog must have been notable enough in the annals to have earned the name Durin's Bane. Sauron probably knew one way or another that there was a great power beneath the earth.
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May 9, 2021 18:20
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ChubbyChecker posted:there were some mordor orcs visiting moria when the fellowship got there, but i don't recall how early did he know Sauron sent a force of orcs to Moria the fifth year after Balin arrived (so, 2994) as per the Book of Mazarbul. However, the Tale of Years says Sauron began to send “his creatures” to Moria around 2480 as part of his plan to shut down traffic between Wilderland and the West. By that time the balrog had been up and about for 500 years, so if Sauron didn’t know about it by then, you’d have to assume he found out as a result.
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May 9, 2021 18:34
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If Gandalf hadn't caused the balrog to fall into the abyss, do you think it would have left Moria? Like, presumably it would have continued chasing the fellowship and captured/killed all of them and taken the ring, right? But would it have gone like "aight, back to my dungeon"? Or like... something else.
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May 10, 2021 01:52
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I feel like you don't hide in a cave for 6000 years and then emerge into the sunlight just because you're extra mad at some intruders. If the fellowship had escaped but the Balrog was still alive, I imagine it would have annoyedly let them go
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May 10, 2021 02:55
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cheetah7071 posted:I feel like you don't hide in a cave for 6000 years and then emerge into the sunlight just because you're extra mad at some intruders. If the fellowship had escaped but the Balrog was still alive, I imagine it would have annoyedly let them go The question is whether it would have gone after the ring. Maybe, but I think even a Balrog would think twice about going into Lothlorien without the having the ring beforehand.
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May 10, 2021 03:16
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SHISHKABOB posted:If Gandalf hadn't caused the balrog to fall into the abyss, do you think it would have left Moria? Like, presumably it would have continued chasing the fellowship and captured/killed all of them and taken the ring, right? But would it have gone like "aight, back to my dungeon"? Or like... something else. the real question is would it have flown back to it's dungeon or walked
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May 10, 2021 03:23
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depends on how foolish it is
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May 10, 2021 03:52
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The Balrog might not have even known what the ring was. It was in hiding long before Sauron even crafted the rings.
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May 10, 2021 06:48
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Ginette Reno posted:The Balrog might not have even known what the ring was. It was in hiding long before Sauron even crafted the rings. the balrog wasn't stronger than sam, so he would have coveted it
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May 10, 2021 07:46
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It certainly seems to be picking up that there's something powerful coming through; whether that's "Maia hidden in meat casing" or "Maia power forged into artefact" or both is probably up for argument.
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May 10, 2021 10:31
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the thing was just having a nap and got really cranky when some fool of a tuk woke them up
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May 10, 2021 10:52
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Gats Akimbo posted:It certainly seems to be picking up that there's something powerful coming through; whether that's "Maia hidden in meat casing" or "Maia power forged into artefact" or both is probably up for argument. We know Gandalf passed through Moria prior to Fellowship, but I don't remember if a particular date was ever established for that journey--I want to say maybe it was during the hunt for Gollum? In any event, the context strongly implies that it was after Durin's Bane was wakened and that Gandalf didn't face it then, so I think it's safe to assume it was probably drawn to the Ring.
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May 10, 2021 13:38
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If the Watcher could sense the ring, the Balrog probably could as well.
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May 10, 2021 14:22
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GimpInBlack posted:We know Gandalf passed through Moria prior to Fellowship, but I don't remember if a particular date was ever established for that journey--I want to say maybe it was during the hunt for Gollum? In any event, the context strongly implies that it was after Durin's Bane was wakened and that Gandalf didn't face it then, so I think it's safe to assume it was probably drawn to the Ring. From the start of A Journey in the Dark, after they retreat from Caradhras. quote:I will tread the path with you, Gandalf!’ said Gimli. ‘I will go and look on the halls of Durin, whatever may wait there – if you can find the doors that are shut.’ Gandalf would have come through separately, on the road that eventually led him to Dol Guldur. The Tale of Years has Gandalf in Dol Guldur with Thrain in TA 2860; one presumes he went to Moria shortly before. When Aragorn may have gone in and why is unclear; he does confirm that he was not with Gandalf at the time, when he bolsters everyone's spirit by telling them that Gandalf's sense of direction is better than the cats of Queen Beruthiel.
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May 10, 2021 15:16
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After Aragorn left the service of Ecthelion in Gondor he journeyed up the east bank of the Anduin and spent some time in Lorien. That’s the only time we can place him firmly in the vicinity of Moria before the book starts, and it’s before Balin showed up, so that’s probably when he had his unpleasant visit.
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May 10, 2021 16:03
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Trin Tragula posted:From the start of A Journey in the Dark, after they retreat from Caradhras. Thanks for the cite--I was 99% sure it wasn't some weird edge case where Gandalf went to Moria in like the 16th century and hung out with the Dwarves, but I couldn't remember the exact reference and wikis were failing me.
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May 10, 2021 17:05
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You would think Gandalf would notice the presence of giant loving balrog while going through Moria. Even Aragorn knows something not right in that mine.
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May 10, 2021 18:57
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No one knew it was actually a Balrog and Gandalf didnt have any specific reason to suspect it was so he probably thought it was some other primordial evil thing that had always dwelled deep under the mountains.
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May 10, 2021 19:12
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Saruman probably knew.
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May 10, 2021 19:19
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Saruman had probably already approached it with plans for overthrowing Sauron and make him the lord of the rings. He also probably mistook the balrog being with it being
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May 10, 2021 19:22
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GimpInBlack posted:Thanks for the cite--I was 99% sure it wasn't some weird edge case where Gandalf went to Moria in like the 16th century and hung out with the Dwarves, but I couldn't remember the exact reference and wikis were failing me. I feel like there is 0 chance gandalf had not toured Moria in its heyday, he likely knew it decently well from that time. The istari arrived in what, like TA 1000, and Moria falls around a thousand years later.
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May 10, 2021 19:24
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WoodrowSkillson posted:I feel like there is 0 chance gandalf had not toured Moria in its heyday, he likely knew it decently well from that time. The istari arrived in what, like TA 1000, and Moria falls around a thousand years later. If that's so, how come it takes him so long to get into the West-gate?
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May 10, 2021 19:27
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Trin Tragula posted:If that's so, how come it takes him so long to get into the West-gate? his love of the halflings' leaf
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May 10, 2021 19:29
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Trin Tragula posted:If that's so, how come it takes him so long to get into the West-gate? i dunno man, it takes him 30 years to figure out isildur died wearing the ring, gandalf fucks up sometimes
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May 10, 2021 19:29
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Trin Tragula posted:If that's so, how come it takes him so long to get into the West-gate?
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May 10, 2021 19:31
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Trin Tragula posted:If that's so, how come it takes him so long to get into the West-gate? He says they used to leave it open.
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May 10, 2021 19:36
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Gats Akimbo posted:He says they used to leave it open. That’s true, but his actual reason for not getting how it works is even funnier: he came through the other way, east to west. Turns out that from inside you just need to push
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May 10, 2021 19:40
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skasion posted:That’s true, but his actual reason for not getting how it works is even funnier: he came through the other way, east to west. Turns out that from inside you just need to push WHO CLOSED THE DOORS BEHIND HIM
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May 10, 2021 19:41
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Oracle posted:WHO CLOSED THE DOORS BEHIND HIM
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May 10, 2021 19:44
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Oracle posted:WHO CLOSED THE DOORS BEHIND HIM They're magic doors so they probably close automatically after a time? Or the Orcs did it, yeah.
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May 10, 2021 19:48
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