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Arc Hammer posted:They're swooping down, making GBS threads on people, and dragging them off to the big poo poo-nest.
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Apr 27, 2022 23:23
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I learned this week that the French slogan at Verdun was 'They shall not pass'. I knew, of course, that that was also a slogan of the communists in the Spanish civil war, but reckoned that was unlikely to have influenced JRRT. Verdun, though... Unrelated, I've mentioned before ITT that we've listened to the audiobooks as we went to sleep almost every night for years now. Well, tonight it was time to start over at 'The Hobbit' again, and my wife said, after the intro "...you can live in my nasty, dirty, wet hole..."
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May 9, 2022 04:10
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🙏
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May 9, 2022 04:44
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Andale, andale mami Eä, Eä (Uh-oh) What's poppin' tonight?
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May 18, 2022 22:22
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I'm re-reading LotR and what really jumped out at me this time is how Legolas got done dirty in the movie adaptations. His cool and weird Elven morals and ethics and grief are just ignored really.
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May 18, 2022 22:28
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Yeah, making Legolas stoic eye candy and Gimli a bumbling goofball was certainly A Choice. I enjoy the films and the soundtrack slaps but they really messed with some (most?) of the characters.
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May 18, 2022 22:32
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Also it feels like neither the books and especially not the films (we don't talk about The Hobbit movies) use the fact that he's literally a prince at all. It's just mentioned once in passing and then is never relevant again. Particularly thought it was weird when Gimli says "Do you think your halls are fair, where your king..." 'Your king'? Oh, you mean 'my dad'??
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May 18, 2022 22:40
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In all honestly, they're kind of minor characters in the books as well - it's not like the Hobbits or Aragorn where they go on a long voyage of change and character development. They start off disliking each other, and end up liking each other - enough for a rom-com maybe, but thin gruel for a bigger story. I don't disagree that reducing them to comic relief and audience explanation (A DIVERSION!!) kinda sucks, but in the second and third books they basically just follow Aragorn while he tracks the orcs, then they follow Gandalf to Edoras, then they follow Theoden to Helm's Deep, kill some orcs, and then follow Aragorn to Minas Tirith. They aren't exactly driving the story at any point, and for Two Towers in particular they're minor players in one of the three stories we're tracking.
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May 19, 2022 01:13
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The movies needed comic relief and they around in most scenes so there you go .
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May 19, 2022 01:21
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I admit that my opinion is colored by the Rob Inglis audiobook being the majority of my recent consumption of the books but the movies didn't have to reach too hard to make Gimli the comic relief. Like yeah he's more than a clown in the books but Jackson et al didn't invent that interpretation out of whole cloth.
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May 19, 2022 02:12
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For example the bit where he boasts about his endurance before they port the boats and then Boromir finds him passed smooth out. It's a quibble but my main problem with movie Gimli is that he's depicted as a dumbass and not that he's depicted as comical. Imagined fucked around with this message at 02:21 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 19, 2022 02:16
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Gimli being an oaf is more a thing in Return of the King, aka the weakest movie. He's fine in Fellowship where he alternates between being occasionally funny but mostly very gruff and hostile to elves until he meets Galadriel. Two Towers has the terrible nervous system joke but he's otherwise pretty good here as well and Davies does good physical comedy. I do wish that they had managed to add in a scene where he describes the wonder of Aglarond to Legolas.
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May 19, 2022 02:46
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Not sure who else saw, but a week or two ago Amazon invited a few dozen Tolkien media and social media types to Oxford for a tour, talk, meet and greet, and sneak peak at some footage. The overwhelming response was pretty positive, which isn’t very surprising. Of course this sort of thing is going to be carefully curated. But most I’ve heard from said they were most impressed with talking to the show runners. Tolkien Professor has pretty much said that, while he can’t guarantee the show will be good, he can pretty much guarantee than if the show isn’t good, it won’t be because the show runners aren’t huge Tolkien nerds. Apparently these guys are huge into the lore and know their poo poo, including Tolkien letters and stuff. They didn’t say a ton about the 20 min of footage they saw other than the fact that it seemed intriguing and the thing that made it seem most like middle earth was the music, which is encouraging. Mostly they seemed frustrated that they saw a bunch of different disjointed scenes and stuff and not a whole episode. They also dismissed some rumors that the show will be similar to Game of Thrones in style/tone.
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May 19, 2022 03:57
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May 19, 2022 05:01
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Well, color me surprised. I was pretty much braced for the show to be terrible. I'm still pirating it.
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May 19, 2022 06:40
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Flakey posted:I'm re-reading LotR and what really jumped out at me this time is how Legolas got done dirty in the movie adaptations. His cool and weird Elven morals and ethics and grief are just ignored really. yeah he got the worst treatment. he's supposed to be like a hosed up alien and they turned him into Nick Carter
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May 19, 2022 07:37
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I do not recall Legolas being a character in the books, he's more like an exposition guy
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May 19, 2022 07:53
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Shibawanko posted:yeah he got the worst treatment. he's supposed to be like a hosed up alien and they turned him into Nick Carter
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May 19, 2022 08:23
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Mahoning posted:Not sure who else saw, but a week or two ago Amazon invited a few dozen Tolkien media and social media types to Oxford for a tour, talk, meet and greet, and sneak peak at some footage. Where did Olsen talk about this, in the Exploring LotR cast? I'm a bit behind on it so I'm missing current events.
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May 19, 2022 11:05
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Imagined posted:Also it feels like neither the books and especially not the films (we don't talk about The Hobbit movies) use the fact that he's literally a prince at all. It's just mentioned once in passing and then is never relevant again. Particularly thought it was weird when Gimli says "Do you think your halls are fair, where your king..." 'Your king'? Oh, you mean 'my dad'?? Perhaps that's because Gimli at this point has accepted that Legolas is not such a bad guy, but he still thinks of his father as "that rear end in a top hat who put Dad into prison."
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May 19, 2022 11:16
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girl dick energy posted:Well, color me surprised. I was pretty much braced for the show to be terrible. lol if you are not doing this for all tv shows in 2022
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May 19, 2022 12:38
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Data Graham posted:Where did Olsen talk about this, in the Exploring LotR cast? I'm a bit behind on it so I'm missing current events. He has another podcast just called The Tolkien Professor. The latest episode of that. 473.
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May 19, 2022 12:54
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I found it particularly suspicious that none of the reports coming out of the footage reveal talked about the quality of the narrative, or characters, or tone, or dialogue, or really anything of substance. Every single report I read only mentioned "accuracy." It's like when a superhero movie footage is shown and the only reports are glowing reports about the slavish devotion to the comics, and then the movie comes out and it's just a hollow fanservice recreation of what was on the page. And at risk of posting in the wrong thread... I don't care about accuracy. It's an adaptation, so accuracy is and should be out the window because the best adapted material changes what's necessary to suit the new format and medium. Besides, the show's already not accurate with the compressed timelines, the invented protagonists, the focus on species and regions that Tolkien didn't write extensively about, and the fact that they don't have the ability to a lot of the primary material Tolkien wrote about during the age. Maybe it was part of the deal with Amazon that they weren't allowed to talk about anything beyond that. Maybe the footage shown was so cut apart there wasn't any ability to get a cohesive picture of any of those things. But if those reports were meant to alleviate my concerns as a person who is worried about the quality of The Rings of Power as a television show rather than as an adaptation, they have not.
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May 19, 2022 13:07
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Mahoning posted:He has another podcast just called The Tolkien Professor. The latest episode of that. 473. Oh I see, I stopped paying attention to that feed when ELOTR split off it and it became All SilmFilm All The Time. And then apparently there's a brand-new and identical "The Tolkien Professor" feed now that is getting all the new episodes, including this new "Other Minds and Hands" series that covers this subject. Cool, I had too much spare time anyway
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May 19, 2022 13:35
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feedmyleg posted:I found it particularly suspicious that none of the reports coming out of the footage reveal talked about the quality of the narrative, or characters, or tone, or dialogue, or really anything of substance. Every single report I read only mentioned "accuracy." It's like when a superhero movie footage is shown and the only reports are glowing reports about the slavish devotion to the comics, and then the movie comes out and it's just a hollow fanservice recreation of what was on the page. And at risk of posting in the wrong thread... I don't care about accuracy. It's an adaptation, so accuracy is and should be out the window because the best adapted material changes what's necessary to suit the new format and medium. Besides, the show's already not accurate with the compressed timelines, the invented protagonists, the focus on species and regions that Tolkien didn't write extensively about, and the fact that they don't have the ability to a lot of the primary material Tolkien wrote about during the age. The great thing about the 2nd age is that they don't have to try very hard to be accurate, because there's way less written about that time period. We have a few big events, but beyond that they have a lot of freedom to make up stuff. There would not be enough material for 1 season if they just stuck to canon. So I think its mostly NDAs and such keeping them from spoiling elements of the plot.
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May 19, 2022 14:02
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All of these big Tolkien internet people clearly had to sign NDA’s on most everything related to what they actually saw which is why they have to emphasize so much on other stuff.
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May 19, 2022 14:51
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A Moose posted:The great thing about the 2nd age is that they don't have to try very hard to be accurate, because there's way less written about that time period. We have a few big events, but beyond that they have a lot of freedom to make up stuff. There would not be enough material for 1 season if they just stuck to canon. So I think its mostly NDAs and such keeping them from spoiling elements of the plot. That freedom is as much a risk as a strength, and in the current entertainment environment leans more towards risk. I've lost a lot of trust in the current generation of screen writers to find a way to "fill in the blanks" that is both respectful to the source and well adapted to the new medium. Look around the room at Star Trek, Star Wars, Foundation, Halo, and the end of GoT as recent examples.
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May 19, 2022 16:05
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Yeah I guess I’m not worried that these guys will make a show that isn’t true to the spirit of Tolkien. Just more so that they won’t make a good, interesting, or entertaining television show.
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May 19, 2022 16:21
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Pioneer42 posted:That freedom is as much a risk as a strength, and in the current entertainment environment leans more towards risk. I've lost a lot of trust in the current generation of screen writers to find a way to "fill in the blanks" that is both respectful to the source and well adapted to the new medium. Look around the room at Star Trek, Star Wars, Foundation, Halo, and the end of GoT as recent examples. Halo wasn't really filling in the blanks, there's like, billions of words written about Halo. They mostly just saw the encyclopedia-length backstory and just decided to re-write it. Same with Star Wars and Star Trek. I think that's a little bit different than what's happening here. also even if it's bad, it'll probably still be watchable. Probably better than the Hobbit movies as people working on this seem to actually want it to get made
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May 19, 2022 18:12
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"Better than the Hobbit movies" seems like a fair and reasonable (if somewhat low) bar for The Rings of Power. If it's worse than them that'll loving suck, and if it's better, then hey, not the worst Tolkien adaptation of the 21st century!
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May 19, 2022 18:26
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what im getting is the showrunners are at least aware of the material, so changes are going to be intentional, good or bad. Like with the LOTR movies and Jackson making decisions many disagreed with, but not because he was ignorant of the books. so far i've really liked the costumes and such, and from the promo shots the sets seemed cool and well detailed. if they are actually paying attention to important details, that bodes well as that kind of mindset normally helps produce a higher quality product. none of this precludes them from just making a mess of the story, the acting being poo poo, or the cgi being godawful. we just have to wait and see. as a fan of stuff iterating on tolkien, im at least going to allow myself to look forward to it and not be a dour curmudgeon. but yeah its probably going to be terrible
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May 19, 2022 19:44
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I look forward to pirating it
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May 19, 2022 20:10
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It might be bad but it won’t be bad for the reasons why so many angry YouTube nerds ranting about Wokeism Ruining (Thing) say it’ll be.
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May 19, 2022 20:27
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HIJK posted:I look forward to pirating it Hell, I still haven't watched The Wheel on Prime. (Which, for anyone else posting in both threads, is why I dropped out of that one.) I think for this I'll just ... not care about spoilers and keep reading the thread. Maybe it'll get me to put my Silmarillion audiobook back on.
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May 19, 2022 21:04
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Vavrek posted:Hell, I still haven't watched The Wheel on Prime. (Which, for anyone else posting in both threads, is why I dropped out of that one.) wot wasn't very special
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May 19, 2022 21:41
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I enjoyed the WoT show in a extremely undemanding way. TBF Half of it was also being extremely there for Rosamund Pike.
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May 20, 2022 09:53
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It’s happening melon  We did it
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May 26, 2022 19:27
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May 26, 2022 19:55
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How long have they been in Rivendell? 3-4 years?
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May 26, 2022 19:56
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The glacial progress of this thing is hilarious but it’s still not on the level of The British History Podcast which took 391 episodes over 11 years to reach the 1066 Norman Conquest.
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May 26, 2022 20:09
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