|
First time I read LotR, Bombadil was one of those things that really drew me in and fascinated me. Maybe not as much as the Watcher in the Water or Moria or the Balrog or whatever, but he was definitely a very interesting thing. Especially when they talked about him at the council. I totally skipped over every song in the books back then because "wow boring songs" but I still enjoyed reading about this weird-rear end jolly guy who does what-the-gently caress-ever.
|
#
¿
Feb 16, 2013 19:23
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 10:59 |
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I went and checked. Sam and the Gaffer definitely live on Bagshot Row, so that sounds likely. Unless they definitely don't and I'm totally misremembering.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2013 22:47
|
|
|
I'm not so sure about pride being the thing that Tolkien is making out to be the "bad thing". I say this because I seem to remember a lot of situations where characters or groups of people are described to be "proud", but I never felt like it was necessarily in a bad way. Like I'm pretty sure that the Men of Gondor are in general described to be a proud people, and maybe also the Rohirrim. I do think that when people become too sure of their ability to control the corruption of the ring then that would be an example of pride being a bad thing in the books. That's all just from memory though and I could be misremembering the times when the words "pride" or "proud" were used, and what the contexts were.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2013 19:02
|
|
|
rypakal posted:You can be proud of something without being prideful. Aule was proud of the Dwarves he made, but as an expression of his wish to emulate Iluvatar, and not his own pride. Feanor, on the other hand, was prideful in the work he made and not humble about the ultimate origins of his work (he did not make the light of the Trees which gave them their ultimate beauty). Okay, I think I get it.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2013 23:16
|
|
|
Seaside Loafer posted:I always think of him as a Maiar. In Sil the main gods come to earth first and build it, the Maiar (lesser spirits) come after. So its not unreasonable for him to say he is the first if he just went to straight to proper middle earth as opposed to valinor like everyone else. Valinor and Middle-earth actually didn't exist when Arda (the world) was first created. They all lived on this big island thing in the middle of a big ocean at first, and then lots of poo poo happened. VVV also what that guy said VVV SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Mar 15, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2013 21:51
|
|
|
The reason why I loved the Silmarillion and wanted to read it in the first place was because I fell in love with the world of Middle-earth after reading the Hobbit and the LotR trilogy. I suggest not reading it first.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2013 15:21
|
|
|
The Dregs posted:I have started re-reading the trilogy after seeing the Hobbit movie with my kids. That got me interested in the wider history of ME, which I haven't really got into before now. I read the Silmarillion as a teen, but I don't remember much. I think I just skipped to the parts with dragons and poo poo. First one is a pretty interesting question I think. I would guess that it's because they've been spending so much time dealing with the bad stuff that Morgoth and later Sauron have done to the world. Morgoth's influence on the world was sort of like a Pandora's box thing, except without Pandora. He sort of introduced all the nasty brutish things into the world. Since most Elves are buddy buddy with the Vala, and since the Vala are always trying to heal the word of Morgoth's influence, it makes sense that the Elves would also become pretty good at healing poisons, sicknesses, wounds and whatever. I always thought that Frodo went and crossed the sea because he was a ring-bearer, and that's what ring-bearers did. Explains why Bilbo went as well.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2013 23:36
|
|
|
xcheopis posted:Frodo wasn't unnaturally old, you know. Yeah but I recall descriptions of him saying that he was unnaturally youthful for a hobbit of his age (like 50). Also, that was one of the strangest things that I ever learned about LotR, that Frodo was like 50 years old. That and Merry and Pippin were like 30 something. I think that the movies made a good decision making them much younger (or at least younger looking).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
I dunno, Gothmog was the captain of Morgoth's armies, or whatever? Lord of Balrogs? I feel like Ecthelion is the top dog in terms of killing Balrogs. I guess we sort of have to assume that the Balrogs that Gandalf and Glorfindel killed were just sort of "mook" Balrogs.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 9, 2013 14:51
|
|
|
^^^ Cirdan, I think? Though also there's undoubtedly some Elves hanging around in Valinor who were never named but have been around since the Elves awoke.V. Illych L. posted:Féanor took down a whole mess of balrogs during his last stand, no? Or am I misremembering? He certainly got surrounded by Balrogs, and Gothmog lopped his head off? Or that might be someone else. But yeah it's not unlikely that he killed some Balrogs, I guess. SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Apr 11, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2013 10:21
|
|
|
BatteredFeltFedora posted:silmarillion.txt That would be "Morgoth is a prick." Don't forget that pretty much all the evil in the world is because of him.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2013 20:02
|
|
|
I found the Silmarillion really fun and enjoyable to read because I was really into the world of middle earth. If you also really dig Tolkien's universe then you will probably enjoy it too.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 9, 2013 10:14
|
|
|
Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad is a loving fantastic book and is amazing to read. It's not just the maps you find in the front pages of each book, it's very detailed and well researched. There's plain old maps that show you terrain features and whatever, but then there's maps that show you the paths (or possible paths) taken by characters and groups of characters, it shows maps of weather patterns, languages, it has very detailed maps of settlements or important locations like Helms Deep or Cirith Ungol, and it's even got maps that describe the important battles and the forces involved and the various movements of the armies during each battle. The book contains information on pretty much everything ever in the world of LotR, not just from the trilogy but from the Hobbit and from the Silmarillion as well, describing Beleriand in really great detail. All of this stuff is referenced back to the actual books themselves, it's awesome.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 16, 2013 02:16
|
|
|
pixelbaron posted:Having the Atlas of Middle-Earth on hand while reading The Silmarillion has actually made reading it bearable because I can get an idea of where the gently caress places are, what regions are ruled by what people, what people are doing during a big battle, etc. That's funny, my copy of the Silmarillion had both a regular map and a map showing the rulers of the areas of beleriand.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 27, 2013 16:29
|
|
|
Having that atlas book handy does make reading the books a lot more fun though, I agree.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2013 16:46
|
|
|
It was probably asleep for most of those years (like five thousand years).
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2013 21:58
|
|
|
Bilbo is related to that one Took who could ride a horse and knocked the head off a goblin chief's head in a battles one time. He's got some of that Took blood in him and Gandalf can tell. All the poo poo that Bilbo pulls off in The Hobbit shows that Gandalf weasel right.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2013 17:33
|
|
|
The "extended universe" is where the reader comes in. Tolkien created such a fantastic world that it feels like you could really just go there and explore. I'm a huge nerd and have a map of middle earth hanging on my wall and sometimes I'll sit back in my chair and look at it and place myself there and in all the various places found there. There's no need for fan fiction when you've got yourself your imagination and a great source of inspiration like Tolkien gave us.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 1, 2014 07:02
|
|
|
According to my Complete Guide to Middle Earth, none of the Nazgul are ever named. Though it says it's possible that Gothmog was the 2nd in command Nazgul.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2014 01:22
|
|
|
Tolkien never talks about lots of people dying because of the loss of beleriand (but maybe I'm dumb and it's implied) so I always imagined it happening kind of slow, or at least in some way that gave people time to evacuate. Also there's those spots that never ended up underwater. I can't name them off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure that they weren't exactly the tallest spots around in general. So there's some funky magic stuff goin on probably too.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
Gologle posted:I thought Beleriand getting hosed was quick because that's the explicit reason the Valar didn't want to confront Morgoth with the Elves and Men and Dwarves doing their things? Like, literally every time the Valar fought Morgoth, the struggle had been so great as to permanently reshape large areas of the world. You're probably right, I always just sort of giggled at the idea of Shelob floating away on a spiderweb boat or something.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
She ate herself eventually.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2014 01:22
|
|
|
He really is such a punk, and I really like this image from the previous page that someone else posted:  cause he looks like a big baby butt head and then he's all "I AM SCARY" and then eventually he looks like that one piece of artwork where Fingolfin is fighting him and he's got this super ugly mug and lame lookin outfit and his big dumb hammer.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2014 03:12
|
|
|
Probably the most destructive and terrifying force ever, and did one of the most harmful things ever to the world, but ends up not doing much else other than being hungry and fat all the time.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2014 04:02
|
|
|
One of my favorite creepy unknowns is the creatures that Gandalf talks about when he's talking about his fight with the balrog. He says something about things digging tunnels that are far older than anybody else and far deeper than anybody else. I like the idea that ungoliant came from "outside" or whatever and is part of the darkness that surrounds the world or w/e it's called. Maybe these deep underground critters are something like that but came from the bottom up, that sure would be cool.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2014 22:14
|
|
|
^^^ that's come up before I think the general consensus is that it's unlikely due to various things people brought up, I can't remember what they were (though I think it would be cool) Sauron wants the ring back because he's afraid that someone else like Gandalf or Galadriel or whoever would use the ring to become more powerful than Sauron and get rid of him or whatever. Sauron poured his will into the Ring in order to use it as a tool to dominate other people. In doing so, it became a tool of domination and pretty much had a will of its own and became a character in its own right. It wants to return to its master Sauron and dominate people and rule the world. Since Sauron's will is tied to the ring, that means he can never actually be destroyed unless the Ring is destroyed as well. The Ring is part of Sauron, it contains his essence or whatever. So yeah Sauron will always remain as long as the Ring exists, but he can be turned into a powerless husk as well like what happened to him after Isildur cut his finger off. So basically Sauron assumes that everyone else is like Sauron and will use the ring to dominate the world. You become dominated by the Ring if you try to use it, and you also need to have a strong force of will in order to use the Ring (since it's got Sauron inside it) so yeah I think I agree with you basically turn into someone like Sauron if you try to use the Ring.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2014 01:45
|
|
|
I like to think it was just some really nice rock. Like one of those cool rocks you find at a gemstore where you scoop a bunch up and put them in a bag.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2014 03:45
|
|
|
Sauron is a big jerk who thinks of himself as the ruler of the whole world. If those pesky men show up to his gate led by the only person in the world who can unite them against him then of course he's going to send out his army to crush the little ants. He has literally no reason not to. The Ring is even in the hands of this little army so all the more reason to go kill them.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2014 16:56
|
|
|
I would bet they'd fade away like Sauron would if someone else mastered the Ring.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
I'd be interested in a quote from the books where it says that explicitly.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2014 22:58
|
|
|
Oh they're around, they're just really good at keeping out of sight.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
Yes but why did he become an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2014 22:58
|
|
|
Nessus posted:At a certain point we enter the context of where moral responsibility lies. At a certain point you go from "wanting to assert your own vision" to "I am being an obstinate prick and just loving things up for spite," which Melkor presumably crossed while pouring poison in Feanor's ear. I do not disagree with you, I think after a point he was irredeemable. But I do not believe that he was inherently evil from the start. Unless you consider having "pride" to be evil, which is an argument to make since too much pride often leads to doing a lot of bad things.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2014 01:37
|
|
|
It's ok I guess but it's more like a guilty pleasure compared to other stuff.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2014 03:42
|
|
|
my favorite fantasy author saw more people die than yours
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2014 06:59
|
|
|
There are many magic rings in this world and none of them are to be trifled with.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 18, 2014 19:29
|
|
|
The Silmarillion is fantastic fuel for an imaginative mind, if you don't mind the "undramatic" telling of the tale. Read that thing cover to cover way back when and it was fun as hell.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
The hobbits who live west of the misty mountains migrated there sometime in the third year, I don't remember when but it was probably early? Before that ^^^ like he said. Also Smeagol was a "hobbit" kind of dude, and he was run out of his home "only" like 300-500 years before lotr, so that suggests there were hobbit like dudes living there, and maybe still in the vale of the anduin. After the hobbit, it talks about how the woodsmen flourish between mirkwood and the misty mountains, or "flourish" or whatever. So maybe they were related to them? Oh but does Beorn know that bilbo is a hobbit or is he like wtf that would answer some questions I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2015 19:58
|
|
|
That picture is an artist's rendition based on a line about ancalagon that said when he died he crushed the three peaks of uh... it's either angband or thangorodrim. Or something. They were these big ash mountains in front of Morgoth's lair. So I mean sure. Dragons were made by Morgoth who was Sauron's superior and dragons breath fire so I guess they've got fire in their bellies and that fire is probably pretty hardcore.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 15, 2015 20:58
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 10:59 |
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I believe that in the Silmarillion dragons are, at least by implication, Maiar / "spirits" of an order similar to the Balrogs; they aren't just pure animals, they're Maiar that Melkor shaped into a particular form, or maybe the progeny of maiar and beasts. This would fit in with the medieval lore and legends that Tolkien was drawing on -- in the modern era we tend to think of dragons as a particularly fancy kind of animal, but Tolkien's dragons aren't just animals with fire breath, they're living intelligences. That's part of why no other modern author has done a dragon as well as Smaug; everyone writing dragons today tries to just make them a fancy animal, and that's not terrifying. Dragon's Dogma has a cool dragon.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 15, 2015 23:06
|
|