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Galadriel probably has more to say than either of them and probably Eowyn as well, but no other woman in the series even comes close.
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Jan 10, 2017 21:02
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Sounds interesting, though I wasn't really referring to the Silmarillion. Obviously Luthien, Melian, Yavanna and Varda would all be in that class as well as well as several others. I'm actually reading the History of Middle Earth right now. Honestly, Christopher Tolkien has some very specific interests in regards to his father's work, and I've noticed that a lot of the bigger plot questions I have go unasked or at least glossed over. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was happening to a lot of the female characters. Like Idril, who is a really important part of the first Gondolin story, but that story never got rewritten, so in the Sil she is largely reduced to Tuors wife.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:46
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I think the point to the changes was not having to introduce Erkenbrand. They wanted Eomer to fill that role. Also it put some completely unnecessary tension between Aragorn and Theoden, which I guess represented Theoden's distrust of Gondor. It makes sense, but wasn't really handled well.
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Feb 11, 2017 14:30
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The tentacle beast is clearly Smeagol's grandmother.
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Oct 29, 2017 03:34
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Also the Sil had the problem that virtually all of the characters who are there at the beginning die, and the story is resolved by newer characters. The only major characters who leave Valinor and survive till Morgoth is overthrown are two of Feanor's sons and Galadriel, none of whom are involved in Morgoth's defeat.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:49
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Well obviously...
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Nov 12, 2017 20:36
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Monopthalmus posted:There's no way this will cover Sil material. They don't have the rights. No one does. They can't even reference Sil names and places that don't also appear in LotR. When they say precedes LotR I'm assuming they will be writing their own storyline that takes place in between The Hobbit and LotR, like a lot of the LotR-licensed RPG supplements do. The Lotr appendices are not off limits so it could be Numenorean shenanigans.
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Nov 13, 2017 20:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, from that press release it sounds like the Tolkien estate is directly involved here, which amazes me. Every other property has been licensed off of the film rights. If they have the Tolkien estate on board, this could be anything. Morgoth on ungoliant action. Shadow of War becomes canon.
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Nov 13, 2017 23:24
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The problem is that the ring binds Sauron to Arda. Sauron can't really be killed, and as long as the ring exists he can't be sent into the void either. The only way to defeat him permanently is to destroy it, which is nearly impossible. As Gandalf pointed out, if Sauron had concentrated on defending Mordor eventually somone would have brought the ring to him. But he was undone by his own uncertainty. He was actually scared about what someone with the ring might do to him. So when Aragorn revealed himself he attacked immediately opening up the way for the hobbits to get to Mt. Doom.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:38
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sassassin posted:Given that ring-wielding Angelic Gandalf drives the entire male population of Rohan into a suicidal frenzy for the Greater Good, it's not hard to imagine what Dark Gandalf would look like. Given that the alternative would likely have been extermination at the hands of the Dunlendings and Uruk-Hai it was probably a good thing that the people of Rohan decided ro defend themselves.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:01
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One of the hallmarks of Tolkiens 'wise' characters is that they seldom tell anyone exactly what to do, but instead lay out the situation so that what needs to be done is obvious. But as Frodo pointed out to Gildor, this leads to real problems when the right course of action isn't clear. But part of the wisdom of the wise is that they can't make people's decisions for them. That is really what separates Saruman and Sauron from Gandalf. Saruman and Sauron want to control, while Gandalf is content to be an advisor and helper. This is also why the ring is such a threat to Gandalf, because it would make him want to contol people.
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Feb 13, 2018 17:22
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euphronius posted:Hmm Gandalf goes far beyond mere helper or advisor. This is semantics. He helps Frodo take off the ring, he helps the Fellowship survive the werewolves, he helps Faramir not get murdered by Denethor. I never said Gandalf never intervenes. But his intervention is always in service to another. It is also worth noting that Gandalf is fairly direct with the hobbits, and is generally more willing to take direct action in their defense than for almost any other purpose. This is because Gandalfs sense of justice pushes him to protect the weak. But by the end of the story the hobbits aren't weak, so he allows them to take care of their problems on their own.
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Feb 13, 2018 17:44
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euphronius posted:Semantics are important. I agree. We should keep focusing on them probably. Gandalf's 'crusade' is to act as a a balance against Sauron. There is a very 'white man's burden' vibe to the Numenorean relationship to the Southrons and Easterlings, but that is largely a product of how Tolkien viewed the world. Gandalf's limitations are a mirror of his author's, his support for Aragorn and Gondor is half necessity and half a reflection of the colonial world as Tolkien saw it.
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Feb 13, 2018 18:07
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elise the great posted:It’s pretty appropriate that we’re discussing this now, given that Gandalf Day is tomorrow I doubt that the Great Goblin would have resisted Sauron once he openly declared himself. Helping Thorin in general was a pretty dubious decision on Gandalf's part though.
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Feb 13, 2018 20:41
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Well, that explains a lot.
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Apr 12, 2018 17:03
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andrew smash posted:With regard to the elven rings, it’s been a really long time since i actually read the trilogy but I thought I remembered something, somewhere about how Celebrimbor hid the three away during their creation so that they weren’t under the dominion of the One. Did I just make that poo poo up? He made them in secret, but I an pretty sure he did that becuase he didn't fully trust Sauron, not because he knew Sauron was going to forge the One. The One was definitely forged after the three.
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May 26, 2018 03:22
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I think the Ring also allows him to reform his physical form within Arda if his body is destroyed.
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May 26, 2018 17:49
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Lester Shy posted:Just finished TTT. I am a huge arachnophobe, and I never thought anything would top the Shelob scene in the movies, but reading it was somehow even worse (in a good way). The whole thing feels absolutely filthy, and the fact that she "vomits darkness" is metal as gently caress. She takes after her mother.
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Jul 27, 2018 00:48
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Plus Shelob is legit something that, as far as Gandalf knows, Frodo and Sam have no means of fighting. Once he thinks about it he seems to realize it is probably the best way to sneak into Mordor. Of course Sam ends up fighting Shelob anyway. And winning!
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Jul 27, 2018 19:00
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There are two things that happened. One was the White Council driving him from Dol Guldor, which revealed his identity. While ostensibly time is on Sauron's side, in reality if he waits too long the rivalries and conflicts within his forces could give the west a chance to strike back. So once he's revealed, the clock is ticking until a potential crisis puts his empire at risk. Remember that without the ring he really can't use his will to completely dominate his forces like Morgoth used to. The second thing that happens is that he captures Gollum. Gollum reveals that the ring is now active again. If someone powerful got ahold of it, they could turn his own power against him. So he decides to go for broke right now rather than wait for somone to use the power of the ring to turn his own armies against him.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:56
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euphronius posted:Whoa why do you jump to rear end in a top hat ? There isn’t any evidence he’s an rear end in a top hat. He tries to convince Gandalf and Aragorn that Frodo and Sam are dead.
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Aug 2, 2018 18:13
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I think you are confusing him with Sauron.
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Aug 4, 2018 03:50
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sassassin posted:He says himself that he would happily throw Pippin down a well if it would do any good at all. Frodo in a volcano to save the (middle) Earth is no great stretch. He absolutely did not say he would throw Pippin down a well. He tells Pippin to throw himself in because he is angry at how stupid Pippin is being. And he clearly regrets saying it only a few hours later.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:18
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He had to get his marble rock, and a cutting from Nimloth. He was busy as Numenor was being destroyed!
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Aug 7, 2018 00:34
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skasion posted:Probably going to be just a nice illustrated edition of the various stages of the material, like Beren & Lúthien. I’d expect the original Fall and the unfinished Tale of Tuor to make up most of it. That would be a very short book.
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Aug 8, 2018 04:13
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skasion posted:It’s not particularly subtle, Morgoth obviously has woman problems. God neglected to make him a waifu and the only girl who will give him the time of day is a fat voidspider who only wants his jewels. In some versions it was even less subtle, but alas Tolkien wound up expunging the story where he rapes the sun. Now that's a story I don't remember.
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Aug 9, 2018 15:30
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is very bourgeois. Tolkien was very bourgeois.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:53
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"Are the books any good?" Yes this is how subjective judgements work.
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Sep 8, 2018 06:34
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sassassin posted:He does it for his kids, who all stay afaik. Sets them all up with some nice properties. Do his sons stay? I'm not sure that there is any indication one way or the other, but they are definitely of high-elven descent, so I just assumed they went.
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Sep 12, 2018 19:58
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cheetah7071 posted:Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam are explained away as ring-bearers being given special dispensation. I dunno why Gimli was allowed to go west but yeah he opens the window for other non-ringbearers. Gimli is a dwarf, not a man. At least some of the versions of the Sil indicate that Dwarves have their own wing of the Halls of Mandos, and Human souls don't seem to go to Mandos at all, so that would at least seem to indicate that dwarves going West isn't that outrageous of an idea.
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Sep 12, 2018 20:32
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sassassin posted:"But after the passing of Galadriel in a few years Celeborn grew weary of his realm and went to Imladris to dwell with the sons of Elrond." Okay then, that makes sense.
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Sep 12, 2018 21:10
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In the Book of Lost Tales it is made very clear that the Elves who return to the West go to Eressea not Valinor. This is because they eventually move Eressea back to Middle-Earth and it becomes Britain after the men finish killing the elves. Tolkien eventually dropped that element of the mythology, but the return being to Eressea instead of Valinor is a vestige of it.
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Sep 13, 2018 06:53
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We know elves appeared after Aule created the dwarves and after Varda created the stars. But all sense of time in the early legendarium is really fuzzy, so it's hard to pinpoint how long that was.
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Sep 13, 2018 19:19
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Ginette Reno posted:Didn't Eru say when he was yelling at Melkor that even his discordant song was still part of the song and therefore still Eru's and not Melkor's or something to that effect? Correct. Specifically, the greater song was designed so that Melkor's dissonance would in fact complement and complete it. Unfortunately, Melkor completely missed the point of the whole exercise, which was to show that Eru had already anticipated what he was going to do.
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Sep 14, 2018 06:25
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sassassin posted:Gondolin had a thriving sweatshop industry dedicated to making decorative swords for export to the lower classes in the East. I don't see how this is possible given that Gondolin was a xenophobic theocracy that banned all immigration and trade.
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Sep 20, 2018 01:37
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skasion posted:Giants are a case of The Hobbit being consistent with the backstory at the time but getting left behind later. Giants, ogres, etc are among the various spawn of Melko that get swept under the rug in the LOTR era when Tolkien decides evil can’t truly create anything and everything that serves the Enemy must either be one of the Ainur that fell in his service, or good creations that he ruined. Evil giants and even trolls, which he was unwilling to ignore, don’t fit as easily into this understanding. Nonetheless there are giants in Middle-earth — the ents, whose name is after all just OE for giant, are wood-giants who live in a forest, and I see no reason not to have stone-giants who live in the mountains as well. Maybe Aule put them there to keep the rocks in good order, moved to top Yavanna’s effort to protect her work. Maybe giants are like Hourns, except mountains. "Goddammit Glindorf! Stop singing to the loving mountains. Everytime you do our village gets leveled by giants."
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Sep 20, 2018 20:31
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I think there is some connection between the orcs and the Balrog though. The main reason is because it shows up at the same time the orcs do! That would be a huge coincidence of they weren't connected. More likely than not the orcs follow the Balrog when it gives them orders, because of course they do. I'd say that the failure of the Balrog to intervene in the Dwarf/Goblin war probably had something to do with the fact that Galadriel is right next door to Moria. The Balrog would probably know enough to be wary of her at the least. And no Balrog is going to put itself in danger for the sake of orcs.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:39
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Why is the Hobbit who says Proudfeet not at the top of this list?
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Oct 25, 2018 07:36
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Actually Tom Bombadil just hated ponies and named him Fatty Lumpkin out of spite.
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Oct 25, 2018 20:16
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Old man willow is just that good that all the entwives want to be with him. Treebeard visits the Old Forest: "Fimbrethil! How could you!" Tom Bombadil starts singing about how he is fond of parties.
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Nov 15, 2018 18:58
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