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C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Gaius Marius posted:

Carlin's got an episode with Elon musk on

Look what they've done to my boy :negative:

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Solaris 2.0
May 14, 2008

Gaius Marius posted:

Carlin's got an episode with Elon musk on

Lord how have the mighty fallen..

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

Gaius Marius posted:

Carlin's got an episode with Elon musk on

ahahahahahaha :suicide:

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
"See, Jeff Bezos and I are like two heavyweight fighters pounding each other as we go into space"

Edit: stopped listening to him maybe 4-5 years ago and don't miss any of it.

Solaris 2.0
May 14, 2008

It’s a shame because Death Throes of the Republic, Punic Nightmares, and Wrath of the Kahns series were incredible, especially at the time. Seems like right around his WWI series he started to lose the ability to form a tight narrative, and then he started to double down on libertarianism I guess.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
lol Carlin and Musk are a perfect match. He's the ultimate lame centrist history dad, and those guys probably all love Musk.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I've tried out Pax Brittanica and it's alright. It's granular, serious, and errs on the side of academic history rather than entertainment.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Solaris 2.0 posted:

It’s a shame because Death Throes of the Republic, Punic Nightmares, and Wrath of the Kahns series were incredible, especially at the time. Seems like right around his WWI series he started to lose the ability to form a tight narrative, and then he started to double down on libertarianism I guess.

I keep telling people that the history podcast game has passed Carlin by, and they never believe me. But those 4-5 hour episodes twice a year still hold some mystique, and maybe it's unfair to judge him in part by what he does outside of the main show.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf
I don't think I even listened to the most recent full episode, I just don't really need another 4 hours of the Pacific theater in my life

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

The Glumslinger posted:

I don't think I even listened to the most recent full episode, I just don't really need another 4 hours of the Pacific theater in my life

Yeah I think I got bored like 3/4 of the way through episode 1 of his Pacific theater series. Dude’s waaaay better talking about ancient history than anything after the industrial revolution.

It’s only peripherally related to this thread, but I’ve been having a great time listening to Apocrypals recently. It’s two non-believing (but raised Christian) comic book authors reading and discussing the Bible and various apocrypha. It’s not super academic by any means, but they try to at least cover the primary theories and interpretations to get a sense of how any given thing fits in to the bigger picture. And it’s also hilarious, there’s a lot of weird poo poo in the Bible and a LOT of VERY weird poo poo in the apocrypha.

Appoda
Oct 30, 2013

EP17 Engineering Victory with Elon posted:

Elon Musk and Bill Riley from SpaceX join Dan to discuss the underappreciated role of science and engineering in war. As you might imagine, military aircraft feature prominently in the conversation.

1. The Wages of destruction by Adam Tooze
2. The Art of War by Sun Tzu 
3.The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy by Adam Tooze

Ah yes, the underappreciated role of spending trillions to blow up poor people from the stratosphere or develop weapons systems that can end all life on earth.

I like that the Art of War gets cited.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻



Arcsech posted:

Yeah I think I got bored like 3/4 of the way through episode 1 of his Pacific theater series. Dude’s waaaay better talking about ancient history than anything after the industrial revolution.

It’s only peripherally related to this thread, but I’ve been having a great time listening to Apocrypals recently. It’s two non-believing (but raised Christian) comic book authors reading and discussing the Bible and various apocrypha. It’s not super academic by any means, but they try to at least cover the primary theories and interpretations to get a sense of how any given thing fits in to the bigger picture. And it’s also hilarious, there’s a lot of weird poo poo in the Bible and a LOT of VERY weird poo poo in the apocrypha.

That reminds me of the Sunday School Dropouts. I was sad that they didn't continue the podcast with other religious texts. Wonder what the two of them are up to, now?

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

Appoda posted:

Ah yes, the underappreciated role of spending trillions to blow up poor people from the stratosphere or develop weapons systems that can end all life on earth.

I like that the Art of War gets cited.

It's really funny that Musk is on en episode citing those Tooze books, since Tooze is pretty left wing and I am sure Musk would disagree with his economic views if he ever bothered to actually look at what they are.

Omnicarus
Jan 16, 2006


I highly recommend the Audible audiobook for this one if you don't have time to read it. Fantastic narration and easy to follow listen.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Solaris 2.0 posted:

It’s a shame because Death Throes of the Republic, Punic Nightmares, and Wrath of the Kahns series were incredible, especially at the time. Seems like right around his WWI series he started to lose the ability to form a tight narrative, and then he started to double down on libertarianism I guess.

I think he's actually less of a libertarian crank than he used to be, that just used to be more or less walled away on Common Sense.

Cockblocktopus
Apr 18, 2009

Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.


C-Euro posted:

I keep telling people that the history podcast game has passed Carlin by, and they never believe me. But those 4-5 hour episodes twice a year still hold some mystique, and maybe it's unfair to judge him in part by what he does outside of the main show.

Friendship ended with Hardcore History; now Fall of Civilizations and Shadows of Utopia are my best friends.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I do think the podcast game has passed him by. These long rambling episodes just seem so low quality now that everyone with a mic can make their own

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Cockblocktopus posted:

Friendship ended with Hardcore History; now Fall of Civilizations and Shadows of Utopia are my best friends.

Revolutions and Tides of History for me, but yeah p much.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Omnicarus posted:

I highly recommend the Audible audiobook for this one if you don't have time to read it. Fantastic narration and easy to follow listen.

Is Napolean the Great and Napolean: A life, as appears, the same book? Just different titles for different countries.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

C-Euro posted:

Revolutions and Tides of History for me, but yeah p much.

Seriously. I mean I shouldn't pretend I've fallen out of love with him, Dan Carlin single handedly had me convinced podcasts were stupid for years. But yeah I cannot contemplate advising anyone to listen to Carlin when Tides of History (and Fall of Rome before it), Revolutions, History of Rome/Byzantium, Byzantium and Friends, and the SRB Podcast exist.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf
On the other hand, I listened to pretty much the all of the Lesser Bonapartes, so who am I to judge quality?

Cockblocktopus
Apr 18, 2009

Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.


C-Euro posted:

Revolutions and Tides of History for me, but yeah p much.

Oh definitely these are great too; I was just listing the long-form/intermittent ones that are more comparable to Carlin.

Is Mike Duncan the "just for fun"/indie history podcaster with the largest output in a given year now? Tides is great of course but (1) it's a Wondery product iirc and (2) it has more ads, which cuts into the actual history runtime. Actually scratch that it's probably the When Diplomacy Fails guy, right?

Carlin dropping a couple 4-6 hour episodes a year is impressive(?) I guess but there are plenty of people putting out that much content monthly, just spread across a couple of episodes.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Wdf blows everyone out of the water for output just on sheer ridiculousness of his anniversary specials. History of the crusades also puts out way more than people realize, just half is locked behind Patreon. She's got a whole series on Joan of arc, the war of the roses, the medieval Jewish experience and she just started a series on the Hussites.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Mike Duncan ain't even close though. History of Egypt is putting out more episodes without hiatus then he has in years.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf
Is that history of WWII guy still putting out 2 hour episodes where he names every pilot of every plane of every air skirmish?

The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Dec 15, 2021

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Cockblocktopus posted:

Carlin dropping a couple 4-6 hour episodes a year is impressive(?) I guess but there are plenty of people putting out that much content monthly, just spread across a couple of episodes.

Not really. It seems like more since the individual episodes are long, but that's more a failure of organization and editing than it is a strength. And honestly, he'd probably get more engagement if he could edit them into more easily digestible chunks, not just because of the convenience for listeners for keeping track of where they are, but also because of being able to do regular updates.

Mike Duncan, even with his hiatuses this year for moving and writing his book and whatever else he's been doing, has been putting out episodes most weeks at a length of 20-30 minutes each, which adds up to 13-20 hours of content over this entire year. Maybe Carlin makes better numbers with his other podcasts, but on those he needs to do even less research, scripting, and editing

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Didn't Dan Carlin have to shut down his own forum because his fans and their discussions had grown so toxic?

Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 15, 2021

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

Cockblocktopus posted:

Carlin dropping a couple 4-6 hour episodes a year is impressive(?) I guess but there are plenty of people putting out that much content monthly, just spread across a couple of episodes.

It's not even a couple of episodes a year, he's literally released one episode of Hardcore History this year. Granted it was longer than average, but yeah. He started this series in July 2018 (3.5 years ago!), and it's only six episodes!

I occasionally listen to Omnibus podcast, and they manage a pair of hour+ episodes every week, for about 45 weeks a year. Granted there's less research that goes into those, and plenty of that time is just them riffing and joking about the topic, but it's still a pretty solid amount of recording content.

Omnicarus
Jan 16, 2006

Deptfordx posted:

Is Napolean the Great and Napolean: A life, as appears, the same book? Just different titles for different countries.

I believe so, the one I listened to was the unabridged audible version that clocks in at 32 hours long.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

SlothfulCobra posted:

Not really. It seems like more since the individual episodes are long, but that's more a failure of organization and editing than it is a strength. And honestly, he'd probably get more engagement if he could edit them into more easily digestible chunks, not just because of the convenience for listeners for keeping track of where they are, but also because of being able to do regular updates.

Yeah by Carlin's own admission the problem is that he's not capable of preventing scope creep and so every episode ends out sprawling out into a behemoth as he insists on adding more and more in to it. IIRC according to him the entire Death Throes of the Republic series was originally just a one shot episode on Cleopatra but he kept feeling like he needed to include an ever escalating amount of context which eventually got to a point where he was basically explaining the fall of the Roman republic to explain Cleopatra, and so he just morphed the series into focusing on the former with the latter ending up as a footnote.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Deptfordx posted:

Is Napolean the Great and Napolean: A life, as appears, the same book? Just different titles for different countries.

Yes. Great book!

E: Scope creep is one way to describe it, but really Carlin doesn't even cover his topics that in depth for the length.

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.
My all time favourite of “let’s go back a bit for context” is the Fall of Civilizations episode on Byzantium, which starts the narrative of 1492 with …. the formation of the Mediterranean Sea and the Dardanelles, millions of years ago :laugh:

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I have to laugh at needing to understand the fall of the republic for Cleopatras story.

She literally just glommed onto whoever was stronger and closest to protect her position. The republic itself isn’t actually that important to her story at all

Omnicarus
Jan 16, 2006

Mantis42 posted:

E: Scope creep is one way to describe it, but really Carlin doesn't even cover his topics that in depth for the length.

Agreed. I sound like a broken record in this thread for saying this, but his lack of research ability mixed with his lack of willingness to get help with his weak spots is really glaring in episodes that require a foreign language. The war in the Pacific one was possibly the worst so far imo, using outright frauds or the post-war US curated narrative for the Japanese military history. This is particularly odd since any post ~1990's Pacific war analysis, even in English, specifically avoids these sources and normally goes to lengths to dispel these earlier self-aggrandizing myths created by the likes of Fujita, even a cursory reading should be enough to start realizing that the earlier "definitive histories" and movies from the 50's and 60's are deeply flawed.

He also frequently cites the utterly repugnant Dave Grossman's On Killing, which alone should warrant even a pseudo-professional historian to check what they are doing and would suggest his failures in research are similarly present in English-only topics.

I think his show would be better for having its length and depth, but to be both long and painfully poorly researched at times just propels it into "My uncle watches a history channel and monologues this at Thanksgiving" territory fast.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

CharlestheHammer posted:

I have to laugh at needing to understand the fall of the republic for Cleopatras story.

She literally just glommed onto whoever was stronger and closest to protect her position. The republic itself isn’t actually that important to her story at all

Yeah all he had to say was "Rome exists and has political hegemony over Egypt which is why Caesar is able to muscle into an internal power struggle." Also helps that even for a historical layman the period of Roman history you're talking about is basically household knowledge. Everybody knows Caesar beat up some barbarians, crossed the rubicon, banged Celopatra, and then got stabbed to death.

Omnicarus posted:

Agreed. I sound like a broken record in this thread for saying this, but his lack of research ability mixed with his lack of willingness to get help with his weak spots is really glaring in episodes that require a foreign language. The war in the Pacific one was possibly the worst so far imo, using outright frauds or the post-war US curated narrative for the Japanese military history. This is particularly odd since any post ~1990's Pacific war analysis, even in English, specifically avoids these sources and normally goes to lengths to dispel these earlier self-aggrandizing myths created by the likes of Fujita, even a cursory reading should be enough to start realizing that the earlier "definitive histories" and movies from the 50's and 60's are deeply flawed.

He also frequently cites the utterly repugnant Dave Grossman's On Killing, which alone should warrant even a pseudo-professional historian to check what they are doing and would suggest his failures in research are similarly present in English-only topics.

I think his show would be better for having its length and depth, but to be both long and painfully poorly researched at times just propels it into "My uncle watches a history channel and monologues this at Thanksgiving" territory fast.

His episode on the anabaptist rebellion in Munster is a particular example guilty of this: Carlin admits up front he could only find a single English language source and so the whole episode is structured around it and whoops, turns out it's wildly inaccurate and salacious and cracking open any of the numerous German-language sources would have confirmed this instantly. But despite being a pretty popular podcaster with a wide array of contacts he could call on to help translate proper sources he just... doesn't. It's really odd.

Cockblocktopus
Apr 18, 2009

Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.


I feel like every history podcaster that doesn't do one-and-done Fall of Civilizations-style episodes is massively guilty of scope creep. I doubt Mike Duncan planned on spending 63 episodes to get to Nicholas II abdicating, Zack of When Diplomacy Fails constantly lowballs his series lengths at the start of them, the various seasons of Tides of History just kind of... end when Patrick wants to discuss something else.

Which is fine! They get their weekly ad dollars, we get more content that they think is relevant, and we can save 20% on our first order from Mack Weldon with coupon code PODCAST at checkout.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

Cockblocktopus posted:

I feel like every history podcaster that doesn't do one-and-done Fall of Civilizations-style episodes is massively guilty of scope creep. I doubt Mike Duncan planned on spending 63 episodes to get to Nicholas II abdicating, Zack of When Diplomacy Fails constantly lowballs his series lengths at the start of them, the various seasons of Tides of History just kind of... end when Patrick wants to discuss something else.

Which is fine! They get their weekly ad dollars, we get more content that they think is relevant, and we can save 20% on our first order from Mack Weldon with coupon code PODCAST at checkout.

Remember when Mike Duncan's plan was to cover each revolution in 12 episodes

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.
Mike has said his biggest regret with Russia is not splitting it into two separate series: 1905 and 1917. At the moment he’s basically doing France 1789-1805, 1815, and 1830 as one entire narrative.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


webmeister posted:

Mike has said his biggest regret with Russia is not splitting it into two separate series: 1905 and 1917. At the moment he’s basically doing France 1789-1805, 1815, and 1830 as one entire narrative.

The hiatus basically split it into two series though

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

CommonShore posted:

The hiatus basically split it into two series though

Yeah but people aren’t gonna remember that

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