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Now I kind of want to have a research option to ghoul dwelling units...ghoul golden dragons... edit: wait, so does that mean you *can't* ghoul dwelling units or only that the dwelling cities can't be ghoulified?
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Apr 9, 2015 05:14
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Malachamavet posted:Now I kind of want to have a research option to ghoul dwelling units...ghoul golden dragons... The latter. Dwellings don't have embalming guilds and such, so it's easier to just leave them be. Mind you, Dragons are specifically immune to ghoulling, but most dwelling units can be ghouled through Lich Aura if you really want.
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Apr 9, 2015 05:24
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My dreams of dracoliches, crushed...
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Apr 9, 2015 06:03
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Other than, you know, Draconian Necromancers I guess
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Apr 9, 2015 06:03
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Oh dear lord, I just noticed Per Notchson has Tunneling as his free hero ability.
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Apr 9, 2015 06:09
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There's a Dwarf Sorceress hero that keeps popping up, Something The Elder. I can't figure out what her free ability is. Does anyone know?
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Apr 9, 2015 09:14
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Is there a list of which heroes have which abilities? I got a druid with stunning touch once, and there is a goblin theocrat with throw curse which is also pretty fun.
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Apr 9, 2015 09:40
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a!n posted:There's a Dwarf Sorceress hero that keeps popping up, Something The Elder. I can't figure out what her free ability is. Does anyone know? I just checked, she (and 4 others) are designed to be used as leaders, so she doesn't get anything special. It's actually a bug, she shouldn't spawn as a hero at all, but it's too late to fix it now!
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Apr 9, 2015 09:44
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Gerblyn posted:I just checked, she (and 4 others) are designed to be used as leaders, so she doesn't get anything special. It's actually a bug, she shouldn't spawn as a hero at all, but it's too late to fix it now! I'm suddenly imaging if a faction dies, it's leaders can show up again as heroes. Maybe they join up. Maybe they go neutral and try to reclaim somewhere, anywhere.
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Apr 9, 2015 09:47
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Bloodly posted:I'm suddenly imaging if a faction dies, it's leaders can show up again as heroes. Maybe they join up. Maybe they go neutral and try to reclaim somewhere, anywhere. If you do enough damage to an AI, it will sometimes surrender to you. When it does you get the enemy leader as a hero in your army, as well as their capital city.
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Apr 9, 2015 10:03
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Gerblyn posted:If you do enough damage to an AI, it will sometimes surrender to you. When it does you get the enemy leader as a hero in your army, as well as their capital city. And whatever army is in their capital city. This happens to me a lot on seals games - you whittle down their outlying cities, massacre their massive seal garrison and next turn the leader surrenders and you get a half stack of off-class T4s, maybe a bonus hero if you are lucky.
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Apr 9, 2015 10:12
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Gerblyn posted:I just checked, she (and 4 others) are designed to be used as leaders, so she doesn't get anything special. It's actually a bug, she shouldn't spawn as a hero at all, but it's too late to fix it now! Did you guys ever add the option for created characters to be added to the random hero pool or are they still just enemy leaders? Just wondering. EDIT: Nevermind. I see from the official board it's still a possible future feature. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Apr 9, 2015 |
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Apr 9, 2015 11:37
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Just played a multiplayer game on the beta that had all the expansion stuff turned on, tigrans frostlings new items dwellings racial bonuses cosmic events the works. I'm understanding this correctly when; normal guys can't access the expansion via the beta yet? You got it because someone with the expansion hosted a MP game?
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Apr 9, 2015 12:20
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Daktari posted:I'm understanding this correctly when; normal guys can't access the expansion via the beta yet? You got it because someone with the expansion hosted a MP game? Because one of the beta testers or a journalist we sent a preview key to hosted the game without disabling the DLC, I think.
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Apr 9, 2015 12:50
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It's worth saying, its real nice how triumph handled multiplayer "I dont have that expansion so..." situations by making it a non-issue.  Its something thats come up at least twice for me and being able to tell someone "Doesn't matter, just means you cant roll halflings or wild magic." was great.
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Apr 9, 2015 13:05
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Yeah, it's really good like that. Not quite as generous as the Paradox approach where anyone can make full use of DLC as long as the host has it, but pretty close.
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Apr 9, 2015 13:12
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Necromancy 102 Kill Skills Pay Bills For my second look at Necromancer, some general strategy along with Empire Upgrades and Class Units. The Necromancer, as a class has poor strategic mobility with slow class units, total reliance on supports for healing, and a poor economy. What it does have is more or less the Theocrats snowballing capability on steroids. Necromancers have enormous capacity to protect, heal, and revive their units in tactical combat and an unmatchable ability once they hit the mid-late game to just keep marching forward while constantly increasing their numbers with ghouled enemy units and summons. Their units and abilities are all built to complement each other in crazy ways, and in particular crushing enemy morale with Inflict Despair and other abilities is a core Necromancer strategy. Basically, the ever growing shambling horde of Undead is the dominant strategy for Necromancers, and it can be fun as hell to play. Structurally, the Necromancer is the most hybrid of all the hybrid classes, their class units are split straight down the middle in terms of production vs summoned. Essentially their core combat and clearing units are city produced while their assorted summoned shadows and spirits support the main force in various ways. You have some flexibility to adjust the ratio of your army based on your current income levels but you really can't get by using one or the other exclusively. Your summoned units are too vulnerable to elemental damage and your class units too weak against physical for you to use either exclusively even if you had the economy to support it. In terms of spells, Necromancers are masters of battlefield buffs and debuffs, and have endless tricks that allow them to consume corpses, revive their own or enemy units or use them to power specific abilities. Quickly raising fodder units to use as distractions in combat is also something they do better then anyone, and some of the Necromancer global spells are terrifying. As always, the devil is in the details. Empire Upgrades Shrines of Unlife 60 Knowledge All Shrines give +50 Undead Population and +5 Mana. A very, very, useful tech and one of their only economic perks. After Lost Souls and Necromancy 1, this is always the skill I grab next assuming it's available. Necromancers are usually choking for both mana and population early game, this makes things much more manageable all around. Master of Puppets 180 Knowledge All Ghouls gain +300 Morale Does exactly what it says, and makes your Ghouls much more formidable in combat, especially the Halfling variety. Does not work on your summons or class units, however. With this and embalming your racial ghouls start to graduate from weak but immune to a lot of stuff to actually quite strong. Especially combined with... Vampiric Hunger 240 Knowledge. All Undead Irregulars, Infantry, and Pikemen gain lifestealing. Now this does effect all of your Ghoul infantry types, as well as Lost Souls and Deathbringers. Life-stealing may not seem like a lot, but it's huge early game, and formidable even later on combined with your various morale debuffs to keep your enemies fumbling as much as possible. Healers of the Dead 400 Knowledge. All supports gain the Heal Undead ability, and Reanimators get Lesser Reanimate Undead. Early on, you will be forced to use Reanimators as your all-in-one healer and support package. Which is fine because Reanimators are awesome. Once you get this ability though you'll be able to start really mixing in Racial Supports into your army to provide additional flexibility with more damage types and support skills. Lesser Reanimate Dead lets you Rez any undead unit that is T2 or under, requires touch range. A very powerful ability. One thing you will quickly notice about Necromancers is that while your strategic healing is limited, your in combat healing and revive abilities are actually top-notch. It's not really that Undead struggle for healing past the early game, just that supports are not optional. Harbringers of Death 400 Knowledge. This is the spell that turns your Leader and all Heroes into Undead liches. (Undead, not Ghouls) and gain Lich Aura. Lich Aura is a stack-wide buff that gives +1 Defense, Resistance, 20% Spirit Protection and auto converts any living units in the stack into ghouls every turn. At this point things really start to come together. Lets look at ghouls for a moment. Starting out, they get: -1 Def Weak to Fire and Spirit, Especially Spirit Innately low morale and not easily buffed With your various Empire Upgrades, embalming, and Lich Aura, suddenly your ghouls are: Defense penalty cancels out, General Resistance buffed Fire Weakness becomes fire strength, Additional Spirit weakness nullified by Lich Aura +300 Innate Morale and many of them have life drain. +7 HPs At this point in the game your produced ghouls and class units are actually very strong and tanky units, and even your acquired ghouls are decent enough. You'll always be reliant on Leaders and Supports in a Necromancer army, but when everything comes together, you become a terrifying force. Phylactary 700 Knowledge. Like a proper Lich, your Leader is no longer considers dying any great inconvenience. Your Leader will respawn at your throne city in one turn, and research and spellcasting is not suspended. What is dead can never die! I love the hell out of this skill just from a flavor standpoints, but being practically immune to sniping is also pretty great. Class Units Cadaver HP 32 MP 28 Def 9 Res 9 Melee 6/3 Phy/Blight Cadavers also have Projectile Resistance, Urban/Blight Concealment, and can devour corpses to heal 20 HP. They can also sacrifice themselves to Bone Collectors with the "Offering of Bone" ability. Cadavers lose 10 HP per turn on the strategic map, so they require constant healing to keep around. Your weakest and technically your first class units but don't underestimate the little creepy crawlies. Mastering the Cadaver is your first step in becoming a truly formidable Necromancer. All Necromancer Heroes have the Raise Corpse ability for free, as do all Reanimators. These little buggers have a million uses. Raise them in combat to use as distractions, have them tie up ranged units or tank dangerous heavy hitters, or even flank unsuspecting units for decent damage. Out of combat use them as temporary scouts or just bring them with you to the next battle. Cadavers exist to die for the cause, don't be afraid to throw them away for any reason whatsoever. If you are patient enough it's entirely possible to chain Cadaver summons between battles and just use them to help you steamroll weak indies while clearing. It's very easy to forget this ability exists but just remembering to hit that ability button whenever you have a breather makes a huge difference. The AI is actually pretty good about raising Cadavers and you'll usually get at least one every time you auto combat an easy fight. Unfortunately you just don't have enough healing to create a skeleton horde early game, but I'm just waiting for someone to come up with an all-in Cadaver strategy. Lost Soul 50 Mana/10 Upkeep 16 HP 28 MP 8 Def 8 Res 3/3 Cold/Spirit Melee Damage Lost Souls are Incorporeal, Undying, Concealed on Blight, and have the terrifying Exploit Despair ability. They get Shadow Step at Elite. The Secret of Lost Souls is that they are actually mediocre scouts and amazing early combat units. Hear me out on this. It's completely true that they cost more then any other scout and are made of paper and not that fast and unsupported will actually lose to most scout summons 1 vs 1. However as clearing units they have the capability to become amazing tank/DPS hybrids. First of all, while 16 HP is rear end even with Physical Protection, give these guys a few medals and Life Stealing, and suddenly they can tank all kinds of crap you wouldn't think they could stand up to. Especially because with Undying you can afford to throw them away anyway. Let them "die" to buy you time and then come back in two rounds or the end of the fight. With Life Stealing they're typically healing for like a third of their health every hit, it's quite something to watch. More than that, Exploit Despair is bonkers. Your Reanimators will all have Inflict Despair, (-300 Morale and 20% Spirit Weakness, stackable) as should your hero by level 3 at the latest. Exploit Despair is +2 Spirit/+1 Frost damage for every tier of low morale the target has. Flank Attacks from Lost Souls on depressed enemies are more or less the most damage you can do as a Necromancer early game. If any of your Lost Souls hang around long enough to hit Elite, well. Hang on to that guy he'll never disappoint you. Now you do need Scouts, so the natural tension with Lost Souls is finding the right balance between using them to scout and using them to basically carry your weak early game armies. At 50 mana a pop you can't afford too many, so expect to never stop anguishing about this. Reanimators 85 Gold 10 Mana 40 HP 28 MP 9 Def 11 Res Range 4/4 Blight Frost, Melee 6/2 Physical/Spirit Raise Corpse, Heal Undead, Inflict Despair. Steal Enchantment at Vet and Inflict Curse at elite. I feel like I've already wrote a book about these guys before even getting to their entry. Reanimators are not optional. You will rush them out and build them constantly the entire game, and not regret it for a second because Reanimators are amazing all in one Undead support duders. They heal, they inflict despair, they create cadavers and rez your low-tier units. About the only thing they don't do is dispel, and steal enchantment is a decent enough substitute. Hell they even punch spirit damage which can make them shocking pinch hitters in undead on undead fights. Reanimators are so good that even with Healers of the Dead researched the only real reason to go for most Racial Supports is some diversity in damage types, because frankly a whole lot of things will laugh off Black Bolts. The inflict despair ability is forever helpful, but Reanimators are just not good damage dealers against some races and classes. Race Corner: Draconians R's have Bane Fire instead of Black Bolts Dwarf R's are Armored Frostling R's gain Inflict Chilling, which is amazing because it's both new stackable debuffs in one package. Goblin R's have +2 Blight Damage Halfling R's have Memories of Joy, which is basically Minor Bard Skills for Undead. So, so good. Elf R's Have Total Awareness but only 60% Blight Protection Orc R's have Throw Curse. Human R's have +2 Spirit Damage in melee. (Corrected base Reanimator stats as I didn't catch it at first.) Banshees 90/12 Mana. 40 HP 32 MP 9 Def 10 Res Melee 4/8 Frost/Spirit Incorporeal/Floating/Passwall Phase, Inflict Despair Wail of Despair Strength 13 Cooldown 1 turn. Massive AOE, inflicts despair on all living units, and Haywire vs Machines. (Haywire gives machines a chance of being stunned while taking actions) I'm going to be saying every Necromancer unit is indispensable, because it's true. All of them have an important role and my sucking with Undead in retrospect always comes down to not using one unit or another as much as I should have. Anyway, Banshees are fricken incredible and should have an important place in your army from the time you get them all the way until endgame. Using their Wail to mass debuff enemy armies is exactly what you need to even the odds as a Necromancer. A single Banshee can literally win your battles you would have lost or taken heavy casualties, the difference between using Banshees and not using Banshees is that enormous. They are drat formidable melee units in their own right, too. You see that 8 Spirit Damage? All kinds of units you don't think you can handle because they're immune to your poo poo, Banshees will wreck for you. Try them against Shadow Stalkers, for one thing. As good as Banshees are, they are exponentially better if you keep them alive and level them up, because they get new inflicts with almost every medal. An Elite Banshee is just a maelstrom of curses. Frostbite at Vet, Exhausting Fatigue at Expert, and Cause Fear and Inflict Spirit Breaking at Gold. Banshees are the last summon unit you get until Reapers, and should be a staple of your army even after you get your T4 summon. Anyway poo poo, I'm only halfway through class units and running out of time, so we'll have to pick this up tomorrow. madmac fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 9, 2015 13:28
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Do cadavers leave corpses? Can I keep killing and raising the same dude over and over again? Does out of combat healing kick in before or after the hp loss? e: can cadavers rank up? If so, do you get a suitable reward for getting one to gold?
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Apr 9, 2015 13:56
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Splicer posted:Do cadavers leave corpses? Can I keep killing and raising the same dude over and over again? Hmm. The Corpse Collector used to be fueled by fallen Cadavers, so probably. Note that Raise Corpose is a one/battle ability, so there is a limit to how much you can spam it in one fight. Still, there will be siege battles against a bunch of Reanimators, and they'll raise like 6 Cadavers right when you're just getting over the walls and you will hate them so so much right then. Not sure on the second question. quote:e: can cadavers rank up? If so, do you get a suitable reward for getting one to gold? Heh. Cadavers get resurgence at elite, so if you somehow keep one alive that long, he's immortal.
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Apr 9, 2015 13:59
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madmac posted:Hmm. The Corpse Collector used to be fueled by fallen Cadavers, so probably. Note that Raise Corpose is a one/battle ability, so there is a limit to how much you can spam it in one fight. Still, there will be siege battles against a bunch of Reanimators, and they'll raise like 6 Cadavers right when you're just getting over the walls and you will hate them so so much right then.  How does resurgance work out of combat? If they die from up loss do they just come back?
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Apr 9, 2015 14:14
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Splicer posted:How does resurgance work out of combat? If they die from up loss do they just come back? Resurgence doesn't work out of combat, so they're gone forever I'm afraid! You really need to be careful with Cadavers if you want to keep them alive, but considering each Reanimator and Necromancer can make 1 per battle they're in, it's easier to use them as cannon fodder.
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Apr 9, 2015 14:44
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Gerblyn posted:Resurgence doesn't work out of combat, so they're gone forever I'm afraid! You really need to be careful with Cadavers if you want to keep them alive, but considering each Reanimator and Necromancer can make 1 per battle they're in, it's easier to use them as cannon fodder.
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Apr 9, 2015 15:27
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Splicer posted:Cheers. Do you know whether the hp loss kicks in before if after Heal Undead? Did making high rank cadavers not crumbly ever get considered? Afterwards, I think. Otherwise a low HP cadaver would die before the healing kicked in... The original cadavers didn't rot, you either summoned them in the world map, and they were normal units, or you would get them in combat and they'd die at the end of battle. We added rotting when we made the combat summons stick around after battle, one of the many balance changes we had to add to stop the Necro being the unstoppable engine of doom he was when we first implemented him.
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Apr 9, 2015 15:43
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Hum, would it be possible to have a non-rotting cadaver added to the map editor post-launch? I get a wonderful set piece in my mind of hoards and hoards of cadaver's lurking in a underground barrow, waiting for someone foolish enough to stumble down the tunnel...
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Apr 9, 2015 15:49
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Gerblyn posted:Afterwards, I think. Otherwise a low HP cadaver would die before the healing kicked in... Gerblyn posted:The original cadavers didn't rot, you either summoned them in the world map, and they were normal units, or you would get them in combat and they'd die at the end of battle. We added rotting when we made the combat summons stick around after battle, one of the many balance changes we had to add to stop the Necro being the unstoppable engine of doom he was when we first implemented him. Splicer fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Apr 9, 2015 |
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Apr 9, 2015 16:11
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Are there any units other than cadavers that get hurt in the strategic map (rather than heal)?
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Apr 9, 2015 16:50
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That would actually be pretty amusing if you could tie it to specific terrain, having certain units do poorly in certain environments. It would also make terrain changing spells a real strategic consideration as opposed to something you throw on your cities to make them look pretty. Units take some bit of damage if they end their turn in hostile terrain? Or take a tiny bit for each tile they traverse? Would be an interesting thing to try via mod. It would really make it much more difficult to traverse the underground as a surface dweller, though now that movement down there is faster it might not be unbearable. I really want to see this tried out in a mod now. Adding the missing terrain options to terraforming would really make a mod like this shine, too. Volcanic, mountains, and water are the missing terrains right? I guess rocky whitewater is its own thing too.
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Apr 9, 2015 16:58
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quote:Are there any units other than cadavers that get hurt in the strategic map (rather than heal)? I don't believe so, no. Decay was introduced specifically for Cadavers. Small patch today. quote:
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Apr 9, 2015 16:59
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Holy cow I just realized you can pivot units without spending action points by right clicking and dragging 
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Apr 9, 2015 17:38
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New Gerblyn video: http://ageofwonders.com/new-video-tigran-unity-victory-live/ Tigrans, Peace Keeper, Unifier Victory
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Apr 9, 2015 17:40
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Carnalfex posted:That would actually be pretty amusing if you could tie it to specific terrain, having certain units do poorly in certain environments. It would also make terrain changing spells a real strategic consideration as opposed to something you throw on your cities to make them look pretty. Units take some bit of damage if they end their turn in hostile terrain? Or take a tiny bit for each tile they traverse? Would be an interesting thing to try via mod. It would really make it much more difficult to traverse the underground as a surface dweller, though now that movement down there is faster it might not be unbearable. It's a bit like the glyph city spell that deals damage to every enemy unit in the domain. It reminds me a bit of attrition in Rise of Nations
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Apr 9, 2015 17:41
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Fledgling Gulps posted:Holy cow I just realized you can pivot units without spending action points by right clicking and dragging wait, what Son of a bitch  So many dead heroes and supports.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:42
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Ahahaha "We offer them protection....from ourselves. From not killing them all. We are nice people." This needs to be added in as something the AI says when it demands money from the player. "We're having a hard time protecting you. From ourselves. Your continued support in the form on a kind donation would help greatly." Gerblyn
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Apr 9, 2015 18:17
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Silly question, will there be a new city mission where the city is going "Oh no, some mean necromancer raised the dead! Help! Help!" and you fight a few new units from the necromancer pool? Theres already one with Archon's but well, thats archon's.  Hey, Gerbyln? Can we have UI-less versions of these?   That Frostling/Necromancer one is great. Thyrork fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 9, 2015 |
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Apr 9, 2015 18:22
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A couple new interviews about Eternal Lords posted in this thread: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/new-interviews/ quote:Silly question, will there be a new city mission where the city is going "Oh no, some mean necromancer raised the dead! Help! Help!" and you fight a few new units from the necromancer pool? I don't know about city quests but you'll definitely by fighting a lot of Necromancer units one way or another.
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Apr 9, 2015 19:23
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Thyrork posted:Hum, would it be possible to have a non-rotting cadaver added to the map editor post-launch? I get a wonderful set piece in my mind of hoards and hoards of cadaver's lurking in a underground barrow, waiting for someone foolish enough to stumble down the tunnel... If you put the cadavers in a stack with something with Heal Undead then wouldn't they lose 10 hp per turn and gain 15 hp per turn (per unit with heal undead) Failing that, maybe find a way to give a stack or three of Cadavers regrowth. Then they'll heal AND get damaged each turn (not sure how that'll work out, with them fully healed or at a constant -10HP)
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Apr 9, 2015 20:27
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Easiest solution would be to give them regeneration as well as resurgence at gold, so they always are at full hps at the start of each turn
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Apr 9, 2015 20:39
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Gerblyn posted:Afterwards, I think. Otherwise a low HP cadaver would die before the healing kicked in... So then, would a cadaver with full hp, in a stack with a healer, always start the turn with -10hp?
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Apr 9, 2015 22:15
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Fledgling Gulps posted:Holy cow I just realized you can pivot units without spending action points by right clicking and dragging gently caress. gently caress
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Apr 10, 2015 00:38
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Wow.
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Apr 10, 2015 02:34
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