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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


ProFootballGuy posted:

Don't get a second bachelor's. You can definitely learn enough on your own and through working low-end tech jobs, to get a baseline level of knowledge if you want to go on to get a graduate degree.

You don't need a second bachelor's to go on to grad school, but applying based on what you've learned on the job is pretty much a waste of admissions fees. IMO, you need the rough equivalent of a minor in CS to really have a shot of getting in. Fortunately that level of coursework is pretty easy to complete online these days, so it's not an incredible burden.

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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Harry posted:

Doesn't that require like 10 years of tests?

Hey now, some people finish in eight.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Pollyanna posted:

I've also been considering a CS masters as well, it's really great to hear that they're doable even if you don't have a CS BS. Does this apply to online MS programs? I know that OSU has an online program, and I was wondering if it was any good.

There are CS master's programs that are designed for people without a CS undergraduate, but that's not to say that every CS MS is accessible.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Ragingsheep posted:

Fake edit: the way I see it, experience is always vital and its easier to leverage that experience into finding another job later than looking for one as a fresh grad.

If you find that the social life truly sucks, it'll be easier to move after 6 months or a year.

This is absolutely true. Job hunting with a year or two of experience is radically different from job hunting fresh out of school.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Look for jobs using the keywords Stata, SPSS and R.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


SQL is a pretty serious "minute to learn, lifetime to master"-type thing. There are tons of tutorials out there--and some of them are even good--but at some point it's probably worth reading up on the relational data model to understand why databases work the way they do.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Certificates in data science are very new, and no one really knows exactly how the job prospects are going to be (although it's probably good). The MS in stats is fine, especially if you can take a CS class or two along the way.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


You don't need any further education to be an actuary, although you do need to pass the exams. It might not be a bad idea to sign up for the first one to see what you might be getting yourself into.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


CFA is specifically for someone whose job is managing investments, so while you can take the exams, you're not going to get the credential without changing careers.

If you're planning on staying in insurance, the various underwriter certifications might be appealing, and they're much easier than the actuarial exams. I know about the Chartered Property Casualty Underwriter path, and I think there's something similar for life.

What about a non-MBA master's program?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


MoosetheMooche posted:

Is college a viable route for computer science? Note I'm in Canada, here college is usually for applied subjects like trades and such. Most jobs I've seen here seem to require a BA in computer science. I don't want to go to university again though, I like the co-op/work experience/apprenticeships that are offered in college programs.

The US doesn't have the same distinction between college and university that Canada does. Here we generally refer to all bachelor's granting institutions as colleges. Our closest equivalent to your colleges are what we call community colleges.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Penn State World Campus is a branch of Penn State, so you're at least not dealing with a for-profit school.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


What are you doing now and what would you like to be doing in the new field?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


What classes have you taken, and what other classes would you have to take to finish out the math degree?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


mobby_6kl posted:

-/+ Would need to stick around a bit, but could use the time to finish my degree

I'm assuming that you're talking about a bachelor's degree here. For every other career path you're discussing, having a degree is either a significant advantage or effectively necessary. It's going to make such a huge difference in your job search that finishing it really should be your top priority.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


mobby_6kl posted:

Yeah I effectively dropped out just a few credits short of completing it and due to various reasons never managed to go back. So now I'm thinking to take this position as my current role no longer helps me long-term anyway, complete the degree, and jump ship. Makes sense?

That sounds like a reasonable plan. If you're getting tuition assistance from your employer, you may be under some obligation to stick around for some time or pay it back, though, so look into that.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


posh spaz posted:

That's a really interesting article. I have a friend in Silicon Valley. He's pretty well connected and could probably open some doors for me, but I find most of that culture as offensive as Wall Street in the 80s.

The people who are going into SV now are the people who would've gone into Wall Street back then.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


If you're not set on leaving academia, one option you might want to consider is looking at some of the various bridge programs that are aimed at training non-business PhDs in various business fields. There your prospects for getting a tenure track job are much better--in fact, in some fields, there are more openings than there are graduates. Florida has one and there are a few others out there.

If you are definitely looking to get out of academia, you should look into data science bootcamps that will teach you more along the lines of python, SQL and data analysis. A friend of mine did Insight, and it's worked out very well for her.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


There are other programs out there, so Google around a bit.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


What was your master's in, what kind of work experience do you have, what sort of skills did you have before your breakdown, and what do you like to do?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


A help desk position could be good if it gives you more time outside the office to work on what you actually want to do, but yeah, it's probably not going to lead to a development job through any official pathway. QA can if you get involved in scripted testing, but even that's a little tricky.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Yeah, consulting's a good choice. The big four are always an option, but smaller shops are worth checking out too.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Can you sell it as an IT role?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Take the master's and never look back. $35k total debt is fine for the sort of salary you're looking at after you finish, and in the field you're looking at, a master's has historically been the entry level degree. That's changing a bit, but not all that quickly.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


How much debt would you pick up during the master's, and what's your expected first year salary?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


clam the gently caress down posted:

Likely 20k for an LCSW or other master's program. Two years following, I would have work which was 60k or so, after licensure most get some boost.

With a PhD it would be closer to 80-100k in debt, but after graduation qualifying for director positions which can easily hit 100k.

The rule of thumb I've heard and generally think is OK is that taking on less debt than what you expect to make in your first year after school is fine. It's only when your debt to first year salary ratio gets over 100% that you start running into trouble (and of course 99% isn't necessarily all that hot).

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


That sucks. If it makes you feel any better, they're probably less than thrilled about losing out on a good hire because of their drug testing policy. As I understand it, insurance companies will charge lower premiums to workplaces that are designated drug free, so it might not even be something they want to do.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


dead lettuce posted:

I think it's more common in the medical and construction industries, since they don't want to discriminate between office workers and everyone else.

The problem is that office workers/salaried staff are a lot more likely to be white than the other employees, and the DoJ takes a very dim view on anything that looks like racial discrimination, regardless of the intentions.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


It sounds like your top priority is to finish your CPA as quickly and cheaply as possible. That's the credential that really matters , and the MBA is just a stepping stone to that. It sounds like you should go for it.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


People understand that as a PhD student you're not making much. I wouldn't worry about that.

I think the big question here is what your other options are. Do you have other good data scientists jobs that you're competitive for, or is this the only thing you've got in the pipeline right now? If the second one, how hard do you think it would be to get more options?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


A is the guaranteed moderate payoff, whereas B is the higher variance lottery. I think it really comes down to how risk-averse and boredom-tolerant you are. Some things that might be useful to think about :
  1. How actually burdensome would living in the other city be? Is it just going to mean that you can't go on expensive vacations any more, or does it meaningfully affect your quality of life and ability to save?
  2. What sort of career progression are you likely to have at either place? What sort of opportunities do you have to move beyond the boring stuff if you stay at A for a while? Will you be able to make more money at B in the future?
  3. How long would you have to stay at A before you have an advantage in getting related jobs? What are your exit opportunities from B?

ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Feb 25, 2018

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

the "dangerous city" piece is kind of weird to me. Where is B? Mogadishu?

Oakland, CA or Camden, NJ? The expressed concerns would be reasonable for either of those.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Can you get strong letters of recommendation that will speak to your ability to do research?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Hemingway To Go! posted:

I have a question:
I've been working on a phd in mathematics and have had the masters for a long time now.
But there's been a lot of difficulty.
I can't get a software engineer job, but there's jobs like project management and in flavors of data science that are possible if I switched to industry. However, ones I've looked at seem either require just a bachelor's in something, or require a PHD in statistics or computer science. Not just mathematics.
Is there a way to look up exactly what kind of job opportunities would be gained by finishing the PhD vs not? Some kind of concrete info instead of just impressions?

You might consider asking in the data science thread. You'll get the attention of some relevant people there who might not be watching this thread.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Is there any harm in asking?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Imagine that it's a year from now, you've taken the job, and you're happy. How did that happen? If you can see a plausible story--or better yet, more than one--you should seriously look into whether you can make it happen. If not, you should probably say no. Just make sure your resume's up to date before you do.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Busy Bee posted:

The company I work for just laid off a significant amount of it's work force.

This seems like a pretty good reason.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Are we talking an "I'll never get any professional development"-style trainwreck, or more like "I cry in the bathrooms at work and hope no one notices"?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


If those are your only two options in your current city, you need to think pretty hard about moving.

In the meantime, you could run into issues taking a job at this other company, but you shouldn't let that prevent you from applying.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


The MBA doesn't open that many doors unless you go to a top 5, 10, or 20 school. Different sources disagree on where exactly the cutoff is, but no one's going to tell you that there's no point in going to Harvard, Stanford or Wharton.

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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


If you ever decide to do a bachelor's, it'll be easier to transfer credits with an AA than it will be to transfer the same credits without one. It's definitely worth looking into.

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