- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Hey BFC. Mind giving me some input on whether I should take this job offer?
I work at a large, old, sclerotic company that offers nearly no opportunity for advancement. Senior management is completely incompetent, though I like the immediate group that I work with. The big pro of working here is "work/life balance": frankly, the job is easy as hell, I work from home frequently, and I can do everything I need to do in like 30 hours a week. As a person who's both a nature lover and sort of lazy, this works for me since I get more time outside. I've been there for nearly five years now.
A semi-competitor of ours reached out to me about a nearly identical position, and I figured I'd go on the interview to keep my skills sharp. The interview went well but was *very* work focused, even during the lunch portion. After that, they got my W-2s, pay stubs, references, etc., and I finally got an offer/got to see comp. My main worry is that everyone there seemed a bit one-dimensionally focused on their work, and they seemed to work MUCH longer hours. My recruiter was telling me about how excited he was to have a weekend where he didn't work - I never, ever work on weekends. It seems like my workload could ultimately double to a normal-ish corporate 60 hours a week. I wish I could know more about this, but sending the whole "eh, I don't really want to work that hard" signal doesn't seem like a good idea.
As for the offer itself: it's about the same salary that I earn now (to be fair, I'm already towards the higher end of my position's scale) plus a small-ish sign on bonus that would cover the amount of bonus I've already accrued this year, plus like 15% of a year's salary in RSUs that take four years to vest. The non-salary stuff is pretty much worthless to me since I'd never stick around to vest another $3k in stock options, but it's nice to know it's there I guess. Oh yeah, and the commute is a solid hour each way instead of 30 minutes.
I wasn't even really looking for a job, and now I have to make a choice between working way harder/having less time for myself and my family/actually having an opportunity to advance and keeping it low key/risking tying myself to a dying company/having the mark of my company on my resume long term. Maybe I don't even want an opportunity to advance; I was always shooting for Director or whatever but I'm already feeling pretty rat-raced out at 33.
Lastly: is it weird for a company to just straight up demand your W-2s as part of the "process"? This new company is also huge/legit, so it seems like their SOP, but as you might imagine it considerably damages my negotiating position and I kinda resent that we didn't even talk comp until they knew EVERYTHING about me and had already gone through a full battery interview.
Dude are you kidding me? Do not work for this company.
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May 30, 2017 14:03
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Apr 28, 2024 16:45
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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As far as I can tell you'll be working the same type of job for effectively the same amount of pay, but for many, many more hours per week (including weekends, holy cannoli) plus double the commute. Also the W2 thing sounds like a power play you got suckered into.
Sometimes it takes a write-up like the one you just posted to see what exactly the situation looks like from a detached perspective; read your post again and decide from a detached perspective how lucrative it sounds.
It doesn't sound like you'd be getting the same amount of remote work days or opportunities for advancement either. Through and through it sounds like a hard pass.
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May 30, 2017 14:11
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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180 minutes of burning through your gas tank each day. And I doubt the 10k increase would offset this extra wear and tear by very much. Pass.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:00
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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I've worked as an Account Manager for a total of four years in two different software companies. I'm seeking employment elsewhere as opportunities are limited with my current employer, and it's a bad area. I'm also an 09 Graduate with a Political Science degree. I just fell into this field because it was the only job I was able to get. I am however legitimately good at what I do which is a mixture of Project Management, Software implementation and customer consulting. Any advice in regards to going back to school? What can I best leverage this experience into in terms of my career?
Hi, English major here. People like you and me are going to be project/account managers for the rest of our lives until automation renders us jobless in 15 years.
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Jun 8, 2017 16:34
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Yeah I personally would go the sales route in this situation but I’m definitely a work to live type of person, not the other way around.
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Oct 16, 2018 00:40
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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I worked as a waiter, for several years. Unless you mean sales in pharmaceuticals, I don't think it's for me.
Yeah I meant medical device sales like the guy said. My friend did it for a while and it was really good money but he went back to bartending because he hated driving around so much.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:52
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Drive buses or trains for a metropolitan transit network. They should be union. Minneapolis bus drivers start at $20/hour.
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Jul 19, 2019 19:31
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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I thought it was great personally. Surprised it only took a year to find out it wasn’t what you wanted, but even before that, did you not student teach during college?
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Aug 4, 2019 12:58
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Or being salaried, really.
I’m not sure who teaching is for, these days.
Some one just said “those who can’t, teach”
Actually I do have a lot of teacher friends, but they’re mostly a family affair (ie their parents and grandparents and great grandparents all did it) and exclusively private school. I have one friend who did two years private and switched to charter and is lovin’ it. He’s one of the family trade guys I just mentioned, though.
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Aug 14, 2019 23:55
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Evangelical preacher/cult leader?
Why kid when this is still a real thing.
Being a called worker ("called" by the Holy Spirit, which is basically the cabal of district presidents) usually does not pay well at all, but the drawback is in housing allowances. A housing allowance is money you get on top of your salary, even if you are already getting housing through the church (say, a parsonage). So in some cases you'll get a housing allowance when you don't even need one, instead of just raising your salary. You'll always have the essentials provided for though, in practice. This is likely because instead of applying for a new job, you are instead automatically assigned calls which you then reject or accept. This will happen to you every other year or so, and you are generally expected to move around--to anywhere in the country, or world--every 5-10 years. (My grandpa was an exception to this rule and served at the same parish for almost 50 years straight.) And then because there are costs of living disparities across the country, it's your housing allowance that fluctuates, not your salary.
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Interacting with people
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Low barrier of entry
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Not being in an office
I guess this is true to a point. If there's an actual recession going on, you will hear talk from the church council of freezing your pay. But some synods require a base salary commensurate to years of service though, which is extremely good. My dad colluquized (theological term for saying "You can't fire me, I quit" when the district cabal doesn't like you anymore and jump ship to whole nother synod) to a group that has this from one that didn't...and it's been a windfall, partly because the base was so much higher in the new synod, and partly because they kindly decided to count his years of service in the rival synod.
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Low stress (in terms of sudden deadlines)
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Aug 20, 2019 00:07
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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okay now i'm in a bit of a pickle and i could use some advice
FINALLY, after four months of it being discussed, i'm being put in charge of my own department. we're off-site from the rest of the company, so i'll be overseeing everything there and reporting it to my boss and delivering poo poo at the end of the week
problem is, we haven't actually discussed my position changing or my pay structure changing. i work in data entry and currently i get a base hourly rate of 17.50 + a bonus based on number of results in a week (starting at 1200 and then i think it's $.50/lead). I've (secretly) automated my job almost entirely, which means my weekly results numbers are absurdly high, to the point where I think my biweekly hourly net was like $1050 and my bonus was $1600, which gives me a net of 2650. I have no issues with this, especially considering I can basically do it with no effort while I'm doing other poo poo.
Problem is, when I start managing I'm going to be getting less leads out in a week (probably). So I need to talk with my boss and HR to figure out how we're going to adjust my pay. I have a suspicion he doesn't actually know my job description, because he's basically left all of this to me to figure out by myself, and I suspect he has no idea what I actually do or how much I make weekly. I'm worried if I bring this to them they're going to give me a "raise" that's going to end up making me less per week than what I'm making now. What's the best way to go about this?
I figured my best bet is to write up something describing my job day-to-day, the hourly breakdown of what I'm actually DOING, and my current pay system, and then a second document describing my (presumed) updated day-to-day and hourly breakdown when I'll be managing people. On average, if you combine my hourly rate with my usual bonus, I make like 33/hr. I do not think they'll offer me that, I have a suspicion that's significantly higher than what they intend. On the other hand, I've been the only one doing the job and I feel like I deserve adequate compensation for what I've done so far. It's also my own software that we're using.
I feel like something like $22/hr + a bonus starting from 2000 instead of 1200 + a % of what the guys under me make as a bonus, although that's hard to calculate because i don't know how efficient they'll actually be
napkin math puts that at a net of 2700, which would be $50 more than what I make right now. I have a suspicion I'm just NOT going to get an offer that's equivalent to what I'm making now by volume, and I have no idea how to approach this. I suppose I could just turn down the promotion entirely and they can find someone else to manage everyone and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.
I would think if you're matter-of-fact about the fact that you make more doing less not getting promoted, their only defense against that is that you're getting a new title, which will help you shop around for even more money at a different company later on. And if they use that defense, then the job must not be that complex in the first place that they wouldn't be able to get someone else who hasn't done the automation wizardry thing. And if that's the case, then yeah it's seeming more and more like a no-brainer to deny the promotion and, in turn, the pay cut. This is all very cynical though and it's possible they'll see the matter-of-factness of your situation and raise the pay further. Either way there doesn't seem to be a drawback to being upfront about your situation.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:40
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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MBAs are for rich/powerful people's kids or for when you're 40 and your company is willing to pay for it to elevate you to the rare senior management role that demands time in the trenches in addition to the generic business credentials.
This. Stop believing in the meritocracy and just do the best you can with your circumstances.
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Oct 1, 2019 06:35
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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loving cool jobs are worth it career wise even if the pay is bad. You will definitely stick out as a candidate down the road if you've worked for a pro sports team. If you're cool with the low pay you can always just lie about what you made when negotiating the next job, no shame in that.
Congrats on your cool job, it will help you stay on cool job track and you can always jump over to "not-cool but well paying" track anytime without really missing a beat. Just make sure you're shoveling as much money into your 401k and retirement so you don't fall behind on that.
Thanks for this. I’m in a somewhat similar situation, for the past 7 years (same first job out of college—let’s just say we’re a tiny cog in the Hollywood machine, located in the Midwest), clawing and scratching my way from $12/hour to ~$50k/year during that period of time. Not bad for an English major I guess.
I’d been thinking about leaving but I really just don’t have a network. Eventually I’ll probably want to get the company to pay for PMP certification so that I can move on to something more in the mid range for the Midwest region, which is $80k. But in the meantime...it is a cool job.
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Mar 6, 2020 15:27
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Or less than 60k if you’re in a desirable industry like tv
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Jul 29, 2020 01:18
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Am I right to be worried or am I overthinking things?
More the latter than the former. I’m around your age and make just a little bit more than you as a PM in a niche field. It’s also pretty laid back, only a couple weeks a year am I working more than 40 hours. If you’re happy with your coworkers and environment then I would say you’re making what you’re worth.
E: i should add my co-PMs are making about 20 grand more than me but they’ve also been with the company for decades longer than I have. Hopefully in about 10-15 years I’ll be in the 65k range if I stay here.
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Sep 28, 2020 21:51
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Apr 28, 2024 16:45
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- Jedi Knight Luigi
- Jul 13, 2009
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Forest Service is hiring actually.
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Jan 8, 2021 07:14
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May 30, 2017 14:03
