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I've heard that the Placeholders are a great and noble lineage that can be traced all the way back to Charlemagne! Also: Let's invade the gently caress out of the rest of Italy.
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Apr 13, 2013 02:36
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Seriously, we need to ride out this lucky streak as far as we can.
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Apr 13, 2013 02:43
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So both your first and second son are now kings in their own right? I really hope the open agnatic succession lets them declare war on each other for Sicily when Bohemond dies, because that would be epic.
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Apr 13, 2013 05:54
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So, Castille, France, Sicily and Jerusalem are all in our kin's grasp, we've crushed the Fatimids twice and are expanding through Italy? Not even the dreaded bloodline of Placeholder can stop us!
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Apr 13, 2013 11:56
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With such a streak of luck and military prowess going on, surely the reunification of the Roman Empire isn't too much to aspire to now? Grabbing away the rest of Italy would be a good start towards that lofty goal.
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Apr 13, 2013 12:25
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Serpentis posted:I was literally about to point out the "Placeholder" in this image: I'm getting flashbacks of the Nameless Dynasty.
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Apr 15, 2013 16:49
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Go for Italy, unify the nation ahead of schedule.
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Apr 15, 2013 17:18
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Is this thing still going?
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Apr 23, 2013 01:50
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Festive Transvestite posted:Is this thing still going? Yes, it certainly is. I wasn't going to be able to sustain the pace I was briefly on forever, but it's only been a week and a bit since the last update. I'll have the next one done by the end of the week at the latest. Chronische posted:With such a streak of luck and military prowess going on, surely the reunification of the Roman Empire isn't too much to aspire to now? Grabbing away the rest of Italy would be a good start towards that lofty goal. That's... not particularly likely. I find huge empires boring and tedious in CK2 (especially from a story perspective) and unlike every Paradox Forum AAR ever written, the goal is not to restore the Roman Empire.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:59
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Plus this being a mega-lp, making a mega empire in ck would make playing the rest of the games kind of pointless.
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Apr 23, 2013 05:21
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Viscardus posted:...unlike every Paradox Forum AAR ever written, the goal is not to restore the Roman Empire. You know that now that you have said that the RNG is going to set you up to inherit half of Europe just out of spite.
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Apr 23, 2013 15:43
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Nevets posted:You know that now that you have said that the RNG is going to set you up to inherit half of Europe just out of spite. Then I will resolutely give it away until Europe is filled with different branches of the d'Hautevilles. 
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Apr 23, 2013 18:03
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I don't know, that sounds like a recipe for all sorts of fun genetic disorders.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:07
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You should take over and dissolve the Holy Roman Empire as a little side-project.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:19
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JT Jag posted:You should take over and dissolve the Holy Roman Empire as a little side-project. Actually, that DOES sound fun for a mega-LP. Merging the hundreds of principalities into a handful of actual states this far back in the German cultural heritage would nicely nip the problems of Unification in the bud...
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Apr 24, 2013 07:56
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Chapter Nine: The Valencian Crusade (1110-1117) Two years after Bohemond’s successful defence of Jerusalem, Pope Anacletus, father of the crusade, passes away.  His replacement, Innocent II, is a relatively young man eager to live up to the standard set by his predecessor.  Without the need or enthusiasm for another crusade, he takes a different approach, granting King Bohemond sanction to invade Iberia, where the Christian kingdoms have been unable to made progress against the Muslim menace.  Bohemond decides to target the relatively weak Dhunnunid Emirate, sandwiched between the Christian kingdoms to the north and the Almoravids to the south. Their control over the coastal city of Valencia is particularly weak, and it is a natural target for a Sicilian invasion.  The Norman plan is relatively simple: the army will be transported first to the island of Mallorca, where the weak local rulers will quickly be subjugated. From there, they will sail to the Spanish coast and take Valencia with the help of their Spanish allies.  Bohemond’s son William of Castille naturally agrees, as does the King of Leon, but the King of Aragon is not so accommodating. He desires Valencia for himself, and considers the crusade an assault on his rightful territory.  The Normans are undeterred, and the invasion fleet is assembled to sail to Mallorca.  The invasion goes even better than expected, and the Mallorcan army is quickly destroyed.  The remaining Muslim lords of the Baleares quickly surrender, and the Norman army continues to Valencia.  The Norman army meets the Andalusians by a town just outside Valencia, where they force the Muslim army to give battle.  The Andalusians fight valiantly, and things go poorly for the Normans before Castilian reinforcements arrive. In the end, the victory comes at great cost to Bohemond’s army.  Nevertheless, the city is taken, and the tide of the war seems to be swinging toward the crusaders.  The Almoravid Sultanate is not so accommodating, however, and as Bohemond’s army marches south, a combined Muslim army launches a new offensive that is met by an army of Leonese and Castilian troops commanded by the young King William.  It is a decisive victory, and the Muslims are routed, securing the coastal cities for the Normans.  The Dhunnunids have little choice but to accept Bohemond’s terms, ceding control of Valencia and the rest of their territory on the Mediterranean coast.  With Mallorca and Valencia under his control and his son ruling Castille, Bohemond has taken the first steps in establishing a significant Norman presence in Iberia.  The victory is not without cost, however. Shortly after the war ends, the Normans receive word that Bohemond’s sister, Queen Constance of Leon, was murdered by a member of a growing anti-Norman faction in the largest remaining Spanish kingdom.  King Bohemond is not deterred, however, and names his youngest son Bohemond Duke of Valencia, though he is as yet too young to rule it himself.  Good news follows the bad when it is announced that the new pope intends to crown Kaiser Bernhard, Bohemond’s son-in-law and ally. Far from the ineffective young man he initially appeared to be, Bernhard has done well to halt the slow collapse of the Holy Roman Empire.  Later that year, Bohemond’s brother and one-time enemy Prince Roger passes away. Having failed to produce any sons, his lands revert to the crown.  For a time, Bohemond is content to occupy himself with domestic issues, commissioning new construction projects in Palermo and collecting tolls on Mediterranean trade. The latter project eventually causes conflict with the northern Italian merchant republics to boil over, and Bohemond’s chancellor is murdered by Pisan merchants while on a trip to Sardinia.  Outraged and eager to use the situation to his advantage, Bohemond declares war on the Republic of Pisa.  King Bohemond himself leads an invasion of Pisan-held Sardinia.  Meanwhile, the Duke of Calabria leads another force into battle against the main Pisan army.  Duke Botolf is victorious, and the Pisans are driven back to their capital.  Meanwhile, Bohemond successfully takes Cagliari and begins to subjugate the rest of the island.  The Pisans are forced to surrender control of the island, establishing the Sicilian Kingdom as a true rival to the merchant republics in maritime and mercantile affairs.  It is King Bohemond’s last victory, however. A few months after returning to Palermo, he passes away quietly in one of his palace’s many gardens. Together with his father, he leaves behind a remarkable legacy that has brought the Sicilian state to the forefront of Europe. Whether it can be maintained, however, is another question. 
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Apr 30, 2013 04:04
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Viscardus is putting together reverse-Aragon. Mezzogiorno, Sicily, now Sardinia and Valencia...all it needs is old Aragon, Barcelona, and Athens/Neopatras.
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Apr 30, 2013 04:21
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Or is he? Perhaps he intends to grab as much of Spain as possible and leave it to his relatives, then work on either Italy or Greece as his crown lands. That's what I usually do, because managing even a small part of Spain is more work than it's worth as a non-Iberian native.
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Apr 30, 2013 10:52
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Should take all the Mediterranean islands, Sicily, Sardinia, Crete, Cyprus, the Balearics, Malta etc. and absolutely no mainland. Be the robber baron of the Mediterranean.
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Apr 30, 2013 13:55
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Chapter Ten: Arish and Rafah (1118-1122) All three of Bohemond’s sons are outside of Sicily at his death: Robert in the Levant, William and Bohemond in Spain. The nobles of Sicily, however, waste no time in proclaiming Robert King of Sicily. For his part, Robert is quick to sail back to Palermo.  Ruling the Holy Land has toughened Robert immensely, and he has grown into an accomplished soldier during repeated skirmishes with the surrounding Muslims. He has also lost the use of his left leg due to a terrible injury suffered in battle.  Robert’s brother William of Castille does not contend the succession, but his youngest brother Bohemond does, arguing that Robert’s and William’s kingships preclude them from the succession and that he should be King of Sicily.  Robert wastes no time in taking the fight to Bohemond, sailing a Sicilian army to Bohemond’s capital of Valencia.  Robert triumphs easily, but upon riding to his brother’s camp to accept his surrender – and offer him the Kingdom of Jerusalem – he discovers that Bohemond was killed in the battle.  Upset at the death of his brother, rebel though he was, Robert attempts to distract himself with various initiatives, including the sponsorship of the Knights Templar, a holy order based in the Kingdom of Jerusalem.  He appoints his capable young cousin Guy d’Hauteville to the vacant Duchy of Benevento, hoping to strengthen his hold on the traditionally unruly Mezzogiorno.  In the long term, administering a realm that stretches from Spain to Jerusalem is almost certainly unsustainable, but King Robert does an admirable job in the short term, earning him the approval of his vassals.  It is not long before word reaches Palermo of a large Muslim army mustering for an attack on Jerusalem, led once again by the Fatimid Caliph.  The response is instantaneous, as Catholic rulers from across Europe rally to the Kingdom of Jerusalem’s defence.  A few months later, Sicilian armies begin to arrive in the Levant. The Sicilian commanders are quick to order an attack south, toward Egypt, where they meet the Fatimid army in battle at Arish.  It is a catastrophe. The Sicilian army is woefully unprepared and unfamiliar with the terrain, and the Arabs turn the battle into a slaughter.  A second army, led by King Robert, quickly makes its way west to meet the Fatimids as they pursue the remnants of the Sicilian army toward Jerusalem.  It is too late to save them, however, as most of the army is slaughtered or captured while the rest desert.  Enraged at the humiliation of his other army, Robert throws caution to the wind and engages the Arabs at the first opportunity, just outside the town of Rafah.  His boldness costs him his life. While leading a cavalry charge, he is knocked from his horse. Rendered partially immobile by his useless left leg, he is trapped in the chaos of battle and cut down by an Arab sword.  Despite the death of the king, the battle is a success for his army. They overrun and crush the Fatimid army, driving them back into Egypt.  Word is quickly sent back to Palermo that the king is dead, and his eldest legitimate son, Richard, is crowned.  Back in Jerusalem, the Fatimid Caliph is forced to surrender, his army destroyed and his only hope of reconquering Jerusalem in the immediate future dashed.  Sicily, however, is in as precarious a position as it has been in since the establishment of the kingdom. King Richard is a boy of 13, unready for the responsibilities of kingship, let alone the governance of multiple overseas realms.  Richard’s court is dominated by his regent, Duke Guy of Benevento, the ambitious young man so recently elevated to his position by the late King Robert. Clever and charismatic, Guy has the young king appoint him Amiratus Amiratorum, or Emir of Emirs, a holdover title from the Arab rulers of Sicily.  Acting as Richard’s chief minister, Guy is quick to take control of the Curia Regis, using it to attempt to advance his personal agenda. While the Curia Regis had been consulted regularly, if sparingly, during the reigns of Bohemond and Robert II, Guy attempts to use it much more extensively. He convenes what he calls a parlement, or discussion, to settle what he considers to be the most pressing issues affecting the Sicilian Realm. The first is an apparently minor issue, but one with extensive possible implications. While Richard is the late King Robert’s eldest legitimate son, he does have one older brother – a bastard, named Robert after his father. The son of common woman from Jerusalem, Robert has already distinguished himself at court despite his age and low birth. Guy proposes that Robert be legitimized and named Richard’s heir in the event that he dies before coming of age and having children. Many suspect that Robert will assert a claim to the throne if something were to happen to Richard, and Guy considers ingratiating himself to the bastard prince necessary for just that eventuality. Some other lords feel the same way, but many consider it unthinkable that a bastard would be inserted so high into the line of succession.  Doing so would displace the much-beloved Prince Abelard, as well as Richard’s three other younger brothers.  A second, related question is what should be done with the Kingdom of Jerusalem. It is becoming increasingly evident that it cannot be held in union with the Kingdom of Sicily forever, and almost all of the Curia Regis agrees that it should have a separate king. Who this should be, however, is a matter of debate. Many support the elevation of the bastard Robert to the kingdom – some of them his supporters, some of them those who would rather see him as far away from Sicily as possible. Others suggest that it is Prince Abelard’s right as the second-oldest legitimate son of the late King Robert. Finally, a few contest that the kingdom is better separated from the royal line entirely, and that it should be granted to a loyal vassal or distant cousin, though none can agree on a suitable candidate.  Finally, there is the issue of Valencia and the Spanish possessions. While not as difficult to maintain control of as the Holy Land, many still see Spain as more trouble than its worth. Guy, for one, considers it a waste of resources that would be better spent subjugating North Africa and gaining access to its riches. He argues that the Baleares should be kept under the Sicilian crown, while the mainland possessions should be given to Richard’s uncle, King William of Castille, or granted their independence. He is willing to consider other proposals, but most agree that it will be difficult for the Normans to expand anywhere else if the Spanish lands are retained. 
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May 4, 2013 08:54
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To make it clear, I'm looking for votes/arguments on three separate issues: whether Robert should be legitimized, who should be granted the Kingdom of Jerusalem (Robert, Abelard, or someone outside the royal line), and what should be done with the Spanish provinces (given up so that we can focus elsewhere, or kept with a continued focus on Spain). Not everyone has to vote on each if they don't wish to.
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May 4, 2013 09:02
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On the issue of Robert: Legitimization. On the issue of Jerusalem: The crown should pass to Abelard when he comes of age. On the issue of Spain: Hold onto Valencia, place our focus on Spain.
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May 4, 2013 09:09
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Legitimize Robert and send him to Jerusalem, they will need a man strong in battle, blood will tell, and it is his mother's homeland. Should he fall defending it from the heathen, then so be it. Focus on Spain, aid our kinsmen in Castile.
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May 4, 2013 09:34
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AJ_Impy posted:Legitimize Robert and send him to Jerusalem, they will need a man strong in battle, blood will tell, and it is his mother's homeland. Should he fall defending it from the heathen, then so be it. I'll second these, with some more arguments thrown in: clearly our first priority should be defending Christendom from the dire threat it faces, and Robert is a fantastically capable man in all fields. The circumstances of his birth may be less than ideal, but in desperate times men may rise above what would normally be allowed, and he is still of his father's blood. Furthermore, we should not seek new ground to fight the great enemy in Africa, but contest them where they are already to be found in Spain. Only once Spain and the Holy Land are secure should we think about Africa.
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May 4, 2013 09:46
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Don't legitimize him, leave Abelard the crown, hold onto Valencia.
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May 4, 2013 09:46
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Though Robert's mother may be of less than noble heritage, the Blood has shown. Young Robert has become a man of many skills, especially in the arts of warfare and administration, and his legitimacy should be recognized by this parlement. Further, these skills that Robert is most adept at are those most necessary for a man ruling the contested Holy Land. Indeed, it only makes sense to elevate Robert to King of Jerusalem, strengthening our dynasty and our dynastic lands, and allowing us to focus on Spain!
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May 4, 2013 09:56
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Robert is an incredibly capable young man, and though he may be a bastard in these precarious times, where the Moor and Arab threaten our every border, a man of his ability should be allowed to rise above his natural station. His legitimacy should be recognized. However, I cannot condone granting him the Kingdom of Jerusalem in addition to recognizing his legitimacy. While his mother's origins might draw him to his homeland, he can defend it equally as a loyal heir to the Sicilian crown. Disenfranchising Abelard completely would be an insult to the boy, as appointing Robert heir (while a course I support) is already an offense against him. Thus I recommend Abelard be given the crown in the Holy Land, binding our two realms with bonds of brotherhood beyond simple kinship. This division will leave us free to focus on our Spanish holdings. Passing them off to our Spanish relatives, while easy, would leave the elimination of the Moor entirely in their hands - and while I am sure they are able there is no substitute for strong Sicilian arms when it comes to combating the Moslem menace.
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May 4, 2013 10:07
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What nobility Robert's blood may lack, his spirit makes up for. Legitimize him. As for the matter of Jerusalem, there is only one option: Elevate Robert to King of Jerusalem. A child king is simply not fit to rule such a contested place as the Holy Land. Regarding Spain, well... I fear I do not have a good enough grasp on the political situation of the Iberian peninsula to offer useful advice. Perhaps focusing on Spain is the correct idea, however, I think we should keep in mind that it too will present problems if we attempt to manage it directly in the long run. It would be prudent, I believe, to prepare to hand it off to a relative once we have more than just a foothold in the peninsula.
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May 4, 2013 10:25
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Robert is a highly capable man, and though his mother is not of noble birth, he's a Hauteville, in name and in skill. He must be legitimised. I am also of the conviction that Robert should be granted Jerusalem. His lesser legacy hails from there, and so it is his natural residence and providence. I trust the legitimists within the parlement will also find this option popular; out of sight, out of mind. I also believe we should maintain our foothold on Valencia. I would much want to give our far-flung provinces the most in autonomy, but be things as they are the Mohammedan threat is far too great to risk that. It is my firm belief that we should let our Iberian nobility govern themselves as soon as we have rendered our religious enemies on the peninsula incapable of posing a threat to them without outside aid.
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May 4, 2013 10:45
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Can we grant Robert Jerusalem while not legitimizing him? If so, that is my vote. If not, legitimize him and still give him Jerusalem. Also, I think we should give Valencia do Castille and concentrate on Italy and North Africa. Work is already being done there, we should go spread Christianity else where. Edit - Following YF-23 explanation, I say legitimize him and grant him Jerusalem. Average Lettuce fucked around with this message at 12:22 on May 4, 2013 |
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May 4, 2013 11:36
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Matrilineally marry Robert to a legitimate d'Hauteville and grant him Jerusalem (rather than legitimizing him), and focus on Spain.
Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 5, 2013 |
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May 4, 2013 11:50
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Camoes posted:Can we grant Robert Jerusalem while not legitimizing him? If so, that is my vote. If not, legitimize him and still give him Jerusalem. It should be possible but if memory serves me right illegitimate bastards cannot pass down their dynasty, so unless we first married him to a girl from the d'Hauteville dynasty we would be giving Jerusalem to a foreign dynasty.
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May 4, 2013 12:08
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Surely we aren't going to let a bastard half-breed into the noble line of d'Hauteville? Surely such an action would encourage men to be unfaithful and commit mortal sin, if every child is treated the same. However, one cannot say that he isn't competent. Perhaps TOO competent. Sending him to Jerusalem in on fashion or another, as a duke or even as king would be safest for the continued peace of the family. He may also win more glory for the family honor, always a plus. I say stay out of Spain. It is far more work than it is worth to maintain a presence there. A gift to our family in Castille would certainly not go unrewarded, and the wealth of the many islands of the Mediterranean seem almost to call, as the Sirens of greek myth. Perhaps another push into Greece is what is needed, or at least the seizing of one of their islands. I've heard Rhodes is beautiful in the summer.
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May 4, 2013 12:59
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Legitimize Robert, grant him Jerusalem, and focus on Spain.
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May 4, 2013 13:26
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I'm not entirely at peace with focusing on Spain... the Holy Land will continue to deplete Sicilian strength until Egypt has been broken, even should Islam fall to sectarianism they will still come at us. However, it is true the Spaniards need our help immediately, and thus my earlier vote. Let us complete the Reconquista, and do so more cheaply by hiring Holy Orders, unite Italy and break Egypt.
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May 4, 2013 15:48
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I was about to vote "legitimising bastards when you already have what, four brothers is a terrible idea", then I saw those traits.  Give Robert a chance in the Holy Land.Abelard is young but promising, so I suggest to save the Spanish territories for him once he comes of age. I wouldn't put a child king to border the Moors.
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May 4, 2013 16:08
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Chronische posted:Surely we aren't going to let a bastard half-breed into the noble line of d'Hauteville? Surely such an action would encourage men to be unfaithful and commit mortal sin, if every child is treated the same. We are talking about the same house d'Hauteville, right? Our lords have never been that big on standing on precedent and accepted practice, something that is to their credit. Legitimize Robert, send him to Jerusalem, and focus on Spain, to hell with North Africa.
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May 4, 2013 16:15
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Legitimize robert as king of jerusalem, grant Valencia to Guillaume of Castille
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May 4, 2013 16:29
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Legitimize Robert, give him the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and then expand in southern Spain. Actually I wanted Robert to hang around hoping to make him the successor to the Kingdom of Sicily, then I saw those "ambitious" and "deceitful" traits and realized it's a miracle he didn't assassinate Richard already.
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May 4, 2013 16:35
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YF-23 posted:It should be possible but if memory serves me right illegitimate bastards cannot pass down their dynasty, so unless we first married him to a girl from the d'Hauteville dynasty we would be giving Jerusalem to a foreign dynasty. This is what I will do if Robert is sent to Jerusalem without being legitimized (which is a perfectly valid vote, by the way - it would mean that he is far away from Sicily and not in line for the throne, which is exactly what his enemies at court would want). There are plenty of distant cousins who could marry him and keep Jerusalem as part of the dynasty.
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May 4, 2013 17:54
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