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Al Cu Ad Solte
Nov 30, 2005
Searching for
a righteous cause


Internet Friend posted:

You can push boxes up half broken boxes, then hit it once to make it into a stair and climb up. It's been a while so I don't remember if there's anything else to it.

Perfect, thanks.

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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

Just as an FYI, don't try and play Ys5 in ZSNES, it straight up crashes and resets during the ending. Or at least switch off it once you make your last save. I pushed through the ending in snes9x but the sound/graphics emulation were pretty poo poo in that.

Interesting one to play through, but the weakest in the series by far (not counting the original 3 anyway). Terrible magic system, terrible hit detection, terrible boss designs, and insanely easy. Never thought I'd play an Ys game where you can literally just jump and attack a boss without even bothering to dodge and kill it while still having your free revive item left. Didn't hate playing it or anything though, it was still fun at times and the music was generally still very good.

Oh and it's really short too, about 5 hours long. So the second shortest in the series by my timings.
Didn't crash during my run in ZSNES, at least.

Agreed that it's probably the worst in the series, though I wouldn't say it's bad. I could not wrap my head around the magic system, though. What were they thinking? A pain in the rear end to use (half the time I couldn't even figure out how to charge it up, it seems like it mostly doesn't work during boss fights), you have to constantly re-equip it whenever you change equipment, and there is absolutely no way to know how good a given spell is when you're given so many combinations so you just sort of guess based on the vague descriptions. Not that it seems to matter, everything goes down in a few sword stabs anyway. I also loved how pretty much every boss can be defeated by walking up to them and just smashing attack while absorbing whatever damage they put out. Most of the time you kill them first.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Yeah magic is unusable during boss fights which makes spending your time leveling it up completely worthless too!

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

But I know I saw the third counter (holding R to charge up a spell) increase a few times while fighting bosses! It was so weird. If it just constantly stayed at zero I would have written it off but the stupid counter thing occasionally jumping up gave me hope sometimes when seemingly they were just screwing with me.

Also, you can level up magic? God, what a mess.

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010



Is there anything wrong with the PSP version of Ys: I&II Chronicles compared to the PC version? I'd normally get the PC version, but I'm going to need a good handheld game to play soon.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I don't think there is any substantive difference, just aesthetics and fewer options. Chronicles+ on Steam is set-up such that you can select both "Chronicles" (PSP) and "Complete" (PC) whereas you obviously only have the PSP material with the PSP release. The two have different artwork and music, and the PSP release drops the window/border that was used in Complete (so you are kind of zoomed in on Adol). You can see several of the differences here if you cycle through the images: http://store.steampowered.com/app/223810/

For my own part I prefer essentially every Complete aspect to its Chronicles counterpart, but it's just personal preference and not something that would ruin the experience.

Death Panel Czar
Apr 1, 2012



Is Oath best played on Inferno, or is Nightmare good enough? Don't have the time to unlock all the whatsits in this and Origins, so I'm trying to grab save files to speed things up. If I'm reading this right the only second-run whatsit in Oath is Inferno, so if it doesn't add that much I won't bother.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


You must be unfamiliar with this series. Hard is good enough for challenge, honestly. Normal is probably best for a no-grind run of Oath, and unlike most other games, Nightmare/Inferno are exactly as hard as they sound, at least until you've mastered the games.

Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



On Nightmare difficulty some bosses gain new attack patterns, but you can also choose to play the main game on Hard or Normal and then do Nightmare and Inferno boss rush modes. Boss rush is how you get to the secret bosses too.

Death Panel Czar
Apr 1, 2012



Last Celebration posted:

You must be unfamiliar with this series. Hard is good enough for challenge, honestly. Normal is probably best for a no-grind run of Oath, and unlike most other games, Nightmare/Inferno are exactly as hard as they sound, at least until you've mastered the games.
Somebody gifted me these because I like stupid difficulty, and what of Origins I've played on Nightmare so far felt "right" to me, so unless it gets real bananas soon I'm assuming the hardest setting is how I want to do both.

Internet Friend posted:

On Nightmare difficulty some bosses gain new attack patterns, but you can also choose to play the main game on Hard or Normal and then do Nightmare and Inferno boss rush modes. Boss rush is how you get to the secret bosses too.
Is there a difference in enemy behavior between Nightmare and Inferno?

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Oath is about 1 difficulty step harder than Origins in general. Just might want to keep that in mind.

Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



There's no difference in behavior on Inferno I can recall, it just makes the numbers more stacked against you.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Oath is harder than Origin and the enemies in Oath aren't as easy to just blow through as they are in Origin. Start on Hard. If Hard seems too easy, then bump it up to Nightmare. I'd suggest you don't start on Inferno, though. Even people who are really good at Ys have a lot of trouble with Inferno.

Lance Streetman fucked around with this message at Dec 19, 2013 around 05:16

animatorZed
Jan 2, 2008
falling down

Not directly related, but the Oath talk reminded me that I for some reason skipped the fire magic upgrade before I got to the first boss.

That...was tedious.

I liked Origins more overall, but Oath was definitely harder, and I thought the bosses were more challenging and fun to fight.

Proto Cloud
Feb 18, 2013

Maybe next year...

Alright, finally beat Memories of Celceta. Final boss was a real doozy for me with little in the way of health items, made the battle far more intense.

I still have to say that the game is better than Seven in every way outside of difficulty. The new systems, the skills, the characters, the story, the dungeons and exploration are all better. I just feel that they should have stuck with item limitations like the previous game. Even on Nightmare, this game's bosses were still easier than Seven (and I played that one on Hard) due to being able to stock up on however many healing items you want. Having retarded damage only goes so far, when you can pause at any point to spam potions. Though I will say that normal enemies are more of a threat in this game because they inflict status effects, have boss type monsters and you don't level up and heal as a result as much as in Seven. (Though I might see how that changes if I give it a shot on Nightmare)

I also changed my opinion on Calilica, she's stupid good when it comes to stunning enemies. Lv. 3 Stun Impact is stupid good and made fighting the three Guardian bosses far easier. Skill Ring IV and I could have them fall to their knees every time. I still feel having Ozma and Frieda are too important for fighting bosses because of buffs. Enemies take/deal a lot of damage. I ended up running with Oz/Karna/Fri for most of the bosses to great results.

Either way, game is still fantastic and the best thing the Vita has going for it right now that isn't called Persona 4 Golden.

Well, time to play Ys I now.

fezball
Nov 8, 2009


While we're talking difficulty, I've been stuck on the bat boss in Ys 1 Chronicles nightmare difficulty for a good while now.

Am I missing something here or is this fight mostly luck based? The movement of the bat cloud is so random that you will take hits no matter what (and if he chooses to disperse in the middle of the room there's no way to kite them into a tighter cluster) and the attack windows are way too short with every miss getting you hit 3-4 times. And if you ever manage to get a few good hits in he'll just stop reforming altogether.

So is this what all boss fights are going to be like from now on or is this just a fluke? It's getting to the the point where I'm seriously considering either restarting on lower difficulty or giving up on the game altogether - but up until now the difficulty was just right, so I fear that things will get too easy if I restart on a lower level.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

The final boss is way harder, so there's that to look forward to

fezball
Nov 8, 2009


Well, I don't really mind hard as long as its skill-based but I do mind random & cheap, and bat-boss seems to fall squarely in the latter category.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It could very well be an issue with Nightmare, where everything takes so much longer to kill. Here's someone beating him on Nightmare to give you an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaVOEFw3SGw

Strategy seems the same across difficulties as far I can tell; run around the outside edges, but keeping him close (so that he remains as bunched up as possible), and then hitting him from the bottom if possible to avoid taking damage. You probably want your level maxed as well.

fezball
Nov 8, 2009


Oh sure, I figured out that much already - I had him at <20% a few times already, but at some point he'll always do some unavoidable poo poo like reappearing right in the middle where there is no way out except getting hit several times and ending the attempt. And the bat phases usually are way longer than they are in that video.

I'm sure I'll get him down eventually if I keep trying, but I'm essentially rolling dice here that I get a pattern that doesn't screw me over. If I can expect more of that with future bosses I'm probably done with this game right there.

Latte Lottie
Oct 6, 2011

Getting 1st place is impossible...


fezball posted:

Oh sure, I figured out that much already - I had him at <20% a few times already, but at some point he'll always do some unavoidable poo poo like reappearing right in the middle where there is no way out except getting hit several times and ending the attempt. And the bat phases usually are way longer than they are in that video.

I'm sure I'll get him down eventually if I keep trying, but I'm essentially rolling dice here that I get a pattern that doesn't screw me over. If I can expect more of that with future bosses I'm probably done with this game right there.

This boss is extra ridiculous on nightmare. I'd rather fight the last boss because at least it's a lot quicker. This fight can actually be done without getting hit. My method was to run around the edges as fast as I could like it was a track field. I'd stagger my movement slightly with a brief pause when I got close to a wall on the left or right side, this clumps the bats up just enough to make it safe to dash along the vertical side. There's also ideal spots to start at when it changes into the bats, I can't really remember any details though. A terrible explanation for a terrible boss fight!

e: with terrible spelling

Latte Lottie fucked around with this message at Dec 19, 2013 around 17:20

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Nate RFB posted:

The final boss is way harder, so there's that to look forward to

Nah. Last boss is pretty bullshit, but the bat boss is the worst. At least the last boss is always hittable.

Ed: Unless they changed that on nightmare difficulty.

toddy.
Jun 15, 2010

~she is my wife~


Internet Friend posted:

There's no difference in behavior on Inferno I can recall, it just makes the numbers more stacked against you.

Behaviors are identical, damage to Adol is sharply increased. You will spend most of the game dying in 2 or 3 hits even with the best armor you can muster at the time. Trust me on this.

Latte Lottie
Oct 6, 2011

Getting 1st place is impossible...


Lance Streetman posted:

Nah. Last boss is pretty bullshit, but the bat boss is the worst. At least the last boss is always hittable.

Ed: Unless they changed that on nightmare difficulty.

No, you can still always hit him. But you have maybe 10 seconds to kill him because of how fast he messes up the arena. Ys I, you so crazy.

Proto Cloud
Feb 18, 2013

Maybe next year...

So I beat Ys I and man, that game has definitely aged and the difficulty is incredibly uneven. Holy hell. Bump to Win (TM) system basically makes regular enemy encounter pretty boring. The level system is wacky and limited. The backtracking and the ultra vague quests that are essential to survival are incredibly lame. Thankfully, there's some decent bosses to be found and the story was fairly engaging.

Lance Streetman posted:

Nah. Last boss is pretty bullshit, but the bat boss is the worst. At least the last boss is always hittable.

Ed: Unless they changed that on nightmare difficulty.

Nah, Bat boss has a very specific and straightforward strategy. You can round up bats, juke them to get a hit in and not get hit most of the time, yeah the timing to hit him is dumb as hell, but not as nearly as dumb as dealing with Dark Fact. Dark Fact is one of the worst boss designs I've seen. (I guess I could group the rock boss too, since he requires dumb, brute force) His design revolves around hoping to not get hit by fireballs wailing on you that gets worse as the battle progresses, not getting insta-killed and eating up a ridiculous amount of movement space. It screams a boss design where they needed to make him hard, so let's be as loving cheap as possible. I honestly don't know how anyone would put up with that poo poo on Nightmare. Which is a shame, because there's a really cool concept marred by trying to make the game harder, to pad out its meager play time.

Well, either way, moving on Ys II. Hopefully, that's far better on higher difficulties.

animatorZed
Jan 2, 2008
falling down

Proto Cloud posted:

Well, either way, moving on Ys II. Hopefully, that's far better on higher difficulties.

I soldiered through Ys I mostly out of obligation, but it wasn't that fun.
However, I really enjoyed pretty much every aspect of Ys II. Its just an order of magnitude better in pretty much every way.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


Yeah, the only worth Ys 1 besides the music is when you play Origins and see all the little homages to it like the Darm Tower theme and the reimagined bosses. Like, I had problems in Ys 2, but besides the HP regen cloak it was all poo poo I felt stupid about not figuring out myself, like finding the Roo nest.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Ys II could almost be a modern RPG if it had a map. Aside from that, the game has aged surprisingly well. Much better than Ys1, and significantly better than Ys III.

animatorZed
Jan 2, 2008
falling down

I was also pleasantly surprised at how much dialogue there was in the game. I usually expect older RPG's to be kind of sparse for npc dialogue.
Most characters had several things to say, reactions to story progression (including things that happen near the end of the final area that require you to backtrack quite a bit), extra dialogue for getting gifts (and being fireballed in the face). Add on to that the eventual ability to talk to every single monster in the game, and they all have names and NPC's had additional dialog when using that ability.

Definitely way more than I expected, especially compared to my expectations after Ys I.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



The Complete version of Ys1 is especially bad gameplay wise as well. The PCE version feels a lot better balanced. It's really weird.

Proto Cloud
Feb 18, 2013

Maybe next year...

So, does anyone know the differences in the PC and PSP versions of Oath?

Also, what difficulty should I roll with in Oath? Keep in mind, I do like hard games like Ninja Gaiden and Dark Souls, but I don't like totally cheap poo poo like Dark Fact where you gotta win by blind luck.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





Proto Cloud posted:

So, does anyone know the differences in the PC and PSP versions of Oath?

Also, what difficulty should I roll with in Oath? Keep in mind, I do like hard games like Ninja Gaiden and Dark Souls, but I don't like totally cheap poo poo like Dark Fact where you gotta win by blind luck.

The PSP version has voice acting and the timers on the multiplier bonuses are longer. That's.. it as far as I know? Oath is a little bit on the tough side at times, I'd go with Hard and see how you fare.

Death Priest
Jun 24, 2004


Proto Cloud posted:

So, does anyone know the differences in the PC and PSP versions of Oath?

Also, what difficulty should I roll with in Oath? Keep in mind, I do like hard games like Ninja Gaiden and Dark Souls, but I don't like totally cheap poo poo like Dark Fact where you gotta win by blind luck.

The PSP version is a bit easier because of double boosting, which allows you to heal yourself. I still prefer it because it's the version I played first and not having the VA in the PC version feels odd to me. I'll also agree with kirbysuperstar and suggest starting on hard. Oath is harder than most modern games. It's definitely possible to win even on the hardest difficulty but it's very frustrating because you'll die in 2-4 hits.

edit: I'll add that I played Ys Chronicles after Felghana and can say for sure that there is nothing even approaching the level of bullshit that is Dark Fact in this game.

Death Priest fucked around with this message at Dec 23, 2013 around 01:42

Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


The PSP version of Oath in Felghana has more frequent checkpoints and a lower framerate. I don't think I would recommend it over the PC version; the voice acting is kind of bad and none of the changes in the PSP version are for the better.

ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


So is Origins the best game overall, especially for someone who hasn't played Ys? I'm just looking for most bang for your buck since its on the steam sale, and most of oyu make it seem like its pretty challenging on the hardest difficulty, which is something i might look forward to later.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It's up there, though I prefer Oath in Felghana. But Origin is a little bit easier so it could serve as a better introduction. You really can't go wrong with either.

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


Go with oath because it has more butt rock, which is the main reason I got into these games

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


ThePhenomenalBaby posted:

So is Origins the best game overall, especially for someone who hasn't played Ys? I'm just looking for most bang for your buck since its on the steam sale, and most of oyu make it seem like its pretty challenging on the hardest difficulty, which is something i might look forward to later.

Oath is the one that's challenging on the hardest difficulty. Origin is probably the better introduction to the series, though, as the gameplay is a bit more polished and it's a bit easier.

Also keep in mind that "challenging" is a huge understatement WRT Inferno Difficulty.

TheIllestVillain
Dec 27, 2011

Sal, Wyoming's not a country


I just started Celceta, it's my first Ys game but not my first Falcom game (recently finished Trails in the Sky) so i sort of expected something a bit more story driven.

I was a little disappointed at first but the combat is so drat fun and it's a really well made game, i'm thinking of picking up the older PSP titles after i'm done with this one. Is there any specific order that they should be played in?

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Proto Cloud
Feb 18, 2013

Maybe next year...

You can honestly jump into any of the games without really needing to worry about missing a beat, since they typically are self-contained stories. They just consist of Adol going from one continent to another in search of adventure and there always happens to be some jerk that wants to ruin the continent/island/country for good.

I think the only exception is Ys I/II and Origin, you'll wanna tackle those in that order, as the sequel takes place right after one and Origin spoils I and II. Also, I'd suggest playing the cannon versions of the games since they're usually the best ones.

But yeah, the plots in general aren't exactly phenomenal, but the lore and backstories for the universe are actually pretty cool.

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