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Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


I know that wind lets you stay still for a few seconds while inflicting damage but it still has the same problem where you get launched forward during the initial cast. And I know that touching enemies doesn't do damage but you do bounce off of enemies if you ram them with wind and that just gets you launched into the statue attacks in the Jenocres fight.

I really underestimated how much more damage wind does than melee for this fight, but I'm still thinking this is a Hugo boss that fell into the wrong story. I literally can't damage him in the second phase unless he bunches the statues into a square and gets inside them, like he spends 90% of the time inside a field of fire or lasers that never goes away. If he ever does come out, he stays out long enough for one hit, and one hit every three minutes would make this fight take hours.

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Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

I know that wind lets you stay still for a few seconds while inflicting damage but it still has the same problem where you get launched forward during the initial cast. And I know that touching enemies doesn't do damage but you do bounce off of enemies if you ram them with wind and that just gets you launched into the statue attacks in the Jenocres fight.

I really underestimated how much more damage wind does than melee for this fight, but I'm still thinking this is a Hugo boss that fell into the wrong story. I literally can't damage him in the second phase unless he bunches the statues into a square and gets inside them, like he spends 90% of the time inside a field of fire or lasers that never goes away. If he ever does come out, he stays out long enough for one hit, and one hit every three minutes would make this fight take hours.

What difficulty are you playing on, what level are you, and what equipment do you have/what level is your equipment/have you properly tempered your weapons?

Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



I just jumped into Time Attack, Normal with Yunica. You should be doing around 50-60 damage per hit. Attacking with wind and melee (remember, you can do both at the same time) he dies without any effort. Just dodge a little, jump over his crap, downstab at him, let go of your charged wind attack and mash attack.

Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


Lance Streetman posted:

What difficulty are you playing on, what level are you, and what equipment do you have/what level is your equipment/have you properly tempered your weapons?

I'm on hard. I'm pretty confident I have every upgrade so far (my weapon is level 4, my armor and leggings are as recent as they get and are both blessed). I'm at level 25.

Internet Friend posted:

I just jumped into Time Attack, Normal with Yunica. You should be doing around 50-60 damage per hit. Attacking with wind and melee (remember, you can do both at the same time) he dies without any effort. Just dodge a little, jump over his crap, downstab at him, let go of your charged wind attack and mash attack.

That is actually what I'm doing for the first phase and it works pretty well. The problem is that after the first phase I can only get in one or two hits at a time and those don't add up. Once I did nearly kill him because he did the statue square formation and sat inside it until I took him down to around 5% health, but that's not something that's replicable.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

I'm on hard. I'm pretty confident I have every upgrade so far (my weapon is level 4, my armor and leggings are as recent as they get and are both blessed). I'm at level 25.


That is actually what I'm doing for the first phase and it works pretty well. The problem is that after the first phase I can only get in one or two hits at a time and those don't add up. Once I did nearly kill him because he did the statue square formation and sat inside it until I took him down to around 5% health, but that's not something that's replicable.

Here's a video of the boss on hard, in case it helps. Also story spoilers at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnY1m4-nwbQ

You basically need to get really good at jumping into the fire and then jumping out of it once you've done some damage. Kinda like the Ys 1 version, except nowhere near as hard.

Internet Friend
Jan 1, 2001



With a charged wind up and mashing attacks you should be getting a lot more than one or two hits, I'm not sure what exactly you're doing. A good time to attack in the second phase is when he does the tic-tac-toe fire pattern. You can just stand in one of the squares and be safe to attack him.

Head Hit Keyboard
Oct 9, 2012

It must be fate that has brought us together after all these years.

For the Jenocres fight I just stuck around the perimeter of the area and used the fire skill from a distance. Slow but killing it quickly is less important than doing it safely.

Slur
Mar 6, 2013

It's the Final Countdown.

Head Hit Keyboard posted:

For the Jenocres fight I just stuck around the perimeter of the area and used the fire skill from a distance. Slow but killing it quickly is less important than doing it safely.

This tactic will not work with The Clawed Man, for he has absolutely no ranged attacks whatsoever.

Rather, what you want to do is find small openings within the barrage of attacks he sends out with his statues and hit him whenever he is open.

Felghana-Adol is the best character to use against him, as his wind magic will allow you to float over these obstacles and hit Jenocres whenever you desire.

Head Hit Keyboard
Oct 9, 2012

It must be fate that has brought us together after all these years.

Slur posted:

This tactic will not work with The Clawed Man, for he has absolutely no ranged attacks whatsoever.

He also doesn't fight Jenocres, at least not in story mode, haven't played Time Attack.

Slur
Mar 6, 2013

It's the Final Countdown.

Head Hit Keyboard posted:

He also doesn't fight Jenocres, at least not in story mode, haven't played Time Attack.

Why did I forget that?!? I played through Nightmare and everything and yet somewhere in the back of my mind I could visualize him doing that.

I must have had no sleep the night before...

Ryuga Death
May 14, 2008

There's gotta be one more bell to crack


Grimey Drawer

After beating Ys Origin with the awesome Yunica, this little game has become an instant favorite of mine. This game has such awesome music and this is probably my favorite song. I have Ys Oath (got from a trade), but I want to get Ys I & II as well since Oath seems to be the third game, chronologically. Now I feel like getting the PSP game and even a Vita for the upcoming Ys game. Will any of those be getting a PC release?

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Ryuga Death posted:

After beating Ys Origin with the awesome Yunica, this little game has become an instant favorite of mine. This game has such awesome music and this is probably my favorite song. I have Ys Oath (got from a trade), but I want to get Ys I & II as well since Oath seems to be the third game, chronologically. Now I feel like getting the PSP game and even a Vita for the upcoming Ys game. Will any of those be getting a PC release?

General consensus on 7 says no, but Celceta is up in the air. If it does get a PC release it probably won't be for awhile.

And don't feel pressured to play Ys I & II before Oath. Wanderers from Ys barely referenced Ys II (one character showed up in the intro for 5 seconds) and this was written out for Ys Oath. All you need to know is that Adol likes going on adventures and Dogi breaks wall. You might want to play Oath before Celceta, though, as I think the ending to Oath leads directly into Celceta.

Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


I beat Jenocres earlier, but I only ended up winning because he did the statues-sit-in-a-square-in-the-center formation a lot. Good enough for me.

I'm up to Pictimos now and I just realized that you don't have to pause to switch spells.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

I'm up to Pictimos now and I just realized that you don't have to pause to switch spells.



I think I found your problem.

Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


Lance Streetman posted:



I think I found your problem.

I don't think it really mattered, I only used wind throughout the whole Jenocres fight anyway, and even in the two boss fights afterwards, I can't find any reason to use any spell besides fire.

I actually did guess that you could cheese Jenocres by sniping him with fire for the whole fight but it did so little damage that I just didn't have the patience to try it for twenty minutes, die, and start over.

Speaking of spells, is it just me or is Yunica's thunder spell not very useful? The game said you can use it to block certain attacks but I've never seen that happen. It seems like there's no reason to ever use it unless the enemy you're fighting is specifically weak to it, and the wind and fire spells have a lot more utility.

edit: I don't really like that you can't pause in boss fights without alt+tabbing or whatever. I feel like either you should never be able to pause or you should be able to pause anywhere.

Ryuga Death
May 14, 2008

There's gotta be one more bell to crack


Grimey Drawer

Lance Streetman posted:

General consensus on 7 says no, but Celceta is up in the air. If it does get a PC release it probably won't be for awhile.

And don't feel pressured to play Ys I & II before Oath. Wanderers from Ys barely referenced Ys II (one character showed up in the intro for 5 seconds) and this was written out for Ys Oath. All you need to know is that Adol likes going on adventures and Dogi breaks wall. You might want to play Oath before Celceta, though, as I think the ending to Oath leads directly into Celceta.

Ah, boo on 7. I have a PSP 1000 (that I haven't touched or anything for over a year or so), is it worth getting despite the screen "being a ghosty piece of rear end"? So it's unknown whether or not Celceta will get a PC release at all? Man, I don't want to have to get a Vita, but these games seem really awesome.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

I don't think it really mattered, I only used wind throughout the whole Jenocres fight anyway, and even in the two boss fights afterwards, I can't find any reason to use any spell besides fire.

I actually did guess that you could cheese Jenocres by sniping him with fire for the whole fight but it did so little damage that I just didn't have the patience to try it for twenty minutes, die, and start over.

Speaking of spells, is it just me or is Yunica's thunder spell not very useful? The game said you can use it to block certain attacks but I've never seen that happen. It seems like there's no reason to ever use it unless the enemy you're fighting is specifically weak to it, and the wind and fire spells have a lot more utility.

Lightning is stupidly useful against flying enemies, as it just first straight upwards. I found it essential for taking out some of the wizards in later levels.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





Ryuga Death posted:

Ah, boo on 7. I have a PSP 1000 (that I haven't touched or anything for over a year or so), is it worth getting despite the screen "being a ghosty piece of rear end"?

Sure. It's still a highly enjoyable game and should be pretty cheap on PSN now.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


Yunica takes 0 damage when she gets hit during the attack animation of the lightning spell. With proper timing this can be handy, but more often than not you will use it on the few enemies that appear resistant to everything else.

Head Hit Keyboard
Oct 9, 2012

It must be fate that has brought us together after all these years.

Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

I actually did guess that you could cheese Jenocres by sniping him with fire for the whole fight but it did so little damage that I just didn't have the patience to try it for twenty minutes, die, and start over.

What level were you? Fire should've done decent damage and I was level 27-28 for that fight on both playthroughs.

Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

Speaking of spells, is it just me or is Yunica's thunder spell not very useful? The game said you can use it to block certain attacks but I've never seen that happen. It seems like there's no reason to ever use it unless the enemy you're fighting is specifically weak to it, and the wind and fire spells have a lot more utility.

Pretty much from Blighted Blood on (and a bit of Shifting Sands as well) there are enemies where you pretty much have to take advantage of Skill weaknesses. Those undead things you kill to charge the Evil Ring are weak to thunder. Those things that like to spin into you or shoot projectiles in a V shape are weak to fire. There'll be a lot of enemies coming up that'll die really easily to thunder. Beyond that, it's also great for concentrated damage. I like it for Khonsclard quite a bit.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Completely forgot to put this in the OP, but back in '08 Oyster did a screenshot LP of Ys 1. So if you ever wanted to see the original version of Ys 1, here you go: http://lparchive.org/Ys-Ancient-Ys-Vanished/

Ryuga Death
May 14, 2008

There's gotta be one more bell to crack


Grimey Drawer

Is there a trick to getting a ton of SP, other than grinding for a long time? I want to get all the upgrades/blessings for the achievement.



Just wanted to say, that's a great avatar.

unimportantguy
Dec 25, 2012

Maybe she has no parents and was raised by dogs?

Lance Streetman posted:

Completely forgot to put this in the OP, but back in '08 Oyster did a screenshot LP of Ys 1. So if you ever wanted to see the original version of Ys 1, here you go: http://lparchive.org/Ys-Ancient-Ys-Vanished/

I'm kind of glad I never played this version of Ys 1. It looks goddamn infuriating.
DOUBLE FACTS is also kind of a moment as well.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

Ryuga Death posted:

Is there a trick to getting a ton of SP, other than grinding for a long time? I want to get all the upgrades/blessings for the achievement

Other than getting the upgrades that give you more SP, nope, grinding is all you've got.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

The purple slimes near the end of Origin seem to drop a lot of SP, but I still could never farm enough to get the last few upgrades.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Lance Streetman posted:

Completely forgot to put this in the OP, but back in '08 Oyster did a screenshot LP of Ys 1. So if you ever wanted to see the original version of Ys 1, here you go: http://lparchive.org/Ys-Ancient-Ys-Vanished/

To get technical about it, the original version of Ys1 was on PC-8801, and the Famicom version is fairly different in a number of ways. I think the PCE version is pretty close to the original version of the game, just with better graphics and added cutscene and such.

I should probably actually play the PC-8801 version at some point just to see how it is by comparison. Ys1 is luckily a short enough game that even bad versions are pretty tolerable to play through.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

unimportantguy posted:

I'm kind of glad I never played this version of Ys 1. It looks goddamn infuriating.
DOUBLE FACTS is also kind of a moment as well.

Seriously, what the gently caress was going on there? How does it make the transition from Ys 1 to Ys 2 if you don't get teleported at the end?

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


raditts posted:

Seriously, what the gently caress was going on there? How does it make the transition from Ys 1 to Ys 2 if you don't get teleported at the end?

It doesn't. The Master System version is kind of doofy that way.

Huge Spatula
Jul 15, 2001

I like the pole and the hole, and right now I'm as moist as a snack cake down there.

SpaceDrake posted:

It doesn't. The Master System version is kind of doofy that way.

That let's play is from the NES version. The SMS version is doofy in other ways. Like why does everyone speak terrible old English? Why is Adol named Aron?

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Could be worse, in the Turbo CD version of Ys2, Dogi is named Colin.

unimportantguy
Dec 25, 2012

Maybe she has no parents and was raised by dogs?

Man I'll take the Ys II Colin thing over just about anything to do with the TurboCD Ys III. Demonicus indeed.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


Ryuga Death posted:

Just wanted to say, that's a great avatar.

Aw, thanks.


unimportantguy posted:

Man I'll take the Ys II Colin thing over just about anything to do with the TurboCD Ys III. Demonicus indeed.

Dude, I have no idea what you're talking abou


Ed:

Lance Streetman fucked around with this message at Mar 15, 2013 around 07:03

fuepi
Feb 6, 2011

by FactsAreUseless


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

I'm up to Pictimos now and I just realized that you don't have to pause to switch spells.

I didn't figure it out in Oath until well after the Harpies boss where you sort of want to switch your magic in the middle.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

Could be worse, in the Turbo CD version of Ys2, Dogi is named Colin.

Weird, somehow when I played Ys 3 back in the day I knew that Dogi was the same guy who punched the wall down in Darm Tower. I guess I may be mixing up memories of the TurboCD version with memories of Ys Eternal on the PC though.

Ryuga Death
May 14, 2008

There's gotta be one more bell to crack


Grimey Drawer

So is Ys I+II Chronicles the only direct story sequel in the series (to Ys Origin)? It seems like every other entry in the game series is just its own story, nothing to do with Ys. I know Ys Origin is a prequel that was released much later, but in the LP of Ys I+II, the author states that the story of Ys is all contained within Origin, 1, 2, and 4.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Ryuga Death posted:

So is Ys I+II Chronicles the only direct story sequel in the series (to Ys Origin)? It seems like every other entry in the game series is just its own story, nothing to do with Ys. I know Ys Origin is a prequel that was released much later, but in the LP of Ys I+II, the author states that the story of Ys is all contained within Origin, 1, 2, and 4.

Pretty much. One of the original versions of Ys4 was a direct continuation, but that's no longer canon. Not sure about the remake.

There are also a number of other references to the first two games in Ys6 though.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

One thing that I always found a bit interesting, but is only minimally touched upon in the games, is that each location in the franchise vaguely corresponds to real-life locations in Europe and elsewhere:

Eresia: The continent is of course blatantly Europe.
Afroca: Hmmmmm
Ys and Esteria: France, specifically Brittany. That's where its real-life counterpart was as well.
Celceta: Northern Spain
Xandria: Alexandria, duh.
Felghana: Germany, though some of the geography reeks of Switzerland.
Canaan Islands: Bermuda
Altago: Algeria
Romn: Rome, obviously.

Have a map.

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.


So I just got to the Lava Zone in Oath and I gotta say, I think I actually prefer this game to Origin. The leveling is hosed right up the rear end compared to Origin, sure, but I feel like it's forcing me to make use of my character's abilities far more than Origin did.

HenryEx
Mar 24, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...


Grimey Drawer

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The leveling curve in Oath is certainly a lot smoother than in Origins. You never have to grind in Felghana to beat any bosses, provided you don't go out of your way to avoid most monsters.

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Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


I'm playing Origin on Hard and I feel the same way about that game. Every so often I need to go back and get one level to deal with a boss, but I don't think you ever really have to grind. It's even smoother with Hugo because he has an easier time with most regular enemies.

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