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Taeke posted:They're two completely different games for me. SC4 is more about making pretty, realistic looking cities, a bonsai garden as you guys often say, while Skylines (so far) is more of an actual game (as in progressing through a set of challenges and stuff) and less of a simulation, if that makes sense. The first part of your sentence and the second part seem to contradict. SC4 isn't really a simulation, more of a sandbox, while Cities Skyline requires you to work with the rules of the simulation to produce a certain result (say for example, traffic). Also you CAN do region play in Cities, arguably in a better way than you can in SC4. Granted, you have to unlock the necessary tiles (which isn't hard and if there isn't an option in the game to start with all tiles unlocked a mod can certainly do it) and the scale isn't as large, but there is nothing stopping you from building two distinct entities on opposite ends of the map and having them be separate cities, and unlike in SC4, both cities will grow simultaneously and interact with each other.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:06
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Subyng posted:The first part of your sentence and the second part seem to contradict. SC4 isn't really a simulation, more of a sandbox, while Cities Skyline requires you to work with the rules of the simulation to produce a certain result (say for example, traffic). No, you're right, I completely messed that sentence up. In my defense, today's been a long day (including my first proper 3-hour long opera, Porgy & Bess, which I quite enjoyed) so my sentence creating capacity is less than optimal. Still got the point across, I guess. They're both games, but in SC4 the challenge is in making things pretty without having to worry too much about getting traffic to work and stuff, while in Skylines the challenge isn't so much getting things to be pretty but working with what you've got to achieve a goal, like a certain population. The latter wasn't much of a challenge anymore in SC4 so I started restricting myself in certain ways and try to make things as natural and pretty (as opposed to efficient) as possible, and now I can do away with the whole challenge aspect of that and just focus on the art.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:34
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Subyng posted:Also you CAN do region play in Cities, arguably in a better way than you can in SC4. Granted, you have to unlock the necessary tiles (which isn't hard and if there isn't an option in the game to start with all tiles unlocked a mod can certainly do it) and the scale isn't as large, but there is nothing stopping you from building two distinct entities on opposite ends of the map and having them be separate cities, and unlike in SC4, both cities will grow simultaneously and interact with each other. While I like the expandable map, it's not the same idea as region play and doesn't even come close to matching the scale of what is possible in SC4. The maximum extent of a C:SL city is 100km^2, and that's with the benefit of mods. Default is 36km^2. Even small-ish cities in real life often have metro areas way in excess of 1000km^2, a factor of 10 larger than C:SL largest map size. SC4 can accomodate those sizes easily, and more. I expect if true region play isn't implemented in C:SL, someone over at SimTropolis will develop a third party program that will let you break a large height map into multiple 100km^2 maps for Cities, and maybe a screenshot program to stitch them together after the fact. For what it's worth, SC4 does have gameplay and an objective- I think the game just kind of transcended those goals as people wanted to push the boundaries of creativity later in the games life cycle.
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Mar 15, 2015 01:12
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kinnas posted:My favourite place in any city I've ever built. I imagine it would be an amazing place to grow up as a child. "Got dat red-top!"
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Mar 15, 2015 20:24
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I would urge everyone to try Cities: Skylines at least, because it is a very cool city builder for only 30 bucks where you can do cool stuff that you can't easily do in SC4 like have looping multi-level pedestrian bridges crossing over highways crossing over raised railway tracks crossing back over the highways, all of which are actually used. It's also probably the most moddable game out there, considering people are throwing together mods using unsandboxed access to the core game API.
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Mar 15, 2015 21:55
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It looks really good but I'm having a hell of a time getting past the tilt-shift crap that plagues modern sim games. Can it be turned off?
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Mar 15, 2015 22:04
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Kazinsal posted:It looks really good but I'm having a hell of a time getting past the tilt-shift crap that plagues modern sim games. Can it be turned off? Yes it can I'm probably going to pick it up soon and give it a try. I still dearly love SC4, but after trying to get mods working and stuff I'm kind of burned out on SC4 right now.
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Mar 15, 2015 22:06
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piratepilates posted:I would urge everyone to try Cities: Skylines at least, because it is a very cool city builder for only 30 bucks where you can do cool stuff that you can't easily do in SC4 like have looping multi-level pedestrian bridges crossing over highways crossing over raised railway tracks crossing back over the highways, all of which are actually used. That's pretty much it though the game has that SC4 badly needs is proper curved roads etc. It's superior in every other way. Plus I just cant like those plastic graphics.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:28
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I don't think it's so much about curves even. If only SC4 accurately knew which roads are diagonal or fractionally angled and only grew lots with those specific angles, that would pretty much solve the roads issue. Curves are nice and all but tend to look goofy unless they're following coastlines or valleys. Also wish it had ever so slightly prettier signs for labeling your districts and streets.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:50
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I love SC4, but it's really more just a pretty picture painter and occasional turbo-autism thing while Skylines is way better at being a being a game that you can play.
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Mar 16, 2015 04:36
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Gobblecoque posted:I love SC4, but it's really more just a pretty picture painter and occasional turbo-autism thing while Skylines is way better at being a being a game that you can play. SC4 isn't meant to be a game though. It's like a blank canvas which you paint on rather then have stupid limitations, shite graphics and ''objectives'' like skylines does as do most current game do because they can't be hosed to make an actual game so they think it's fine to add cockblocks in to increase the game time length.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:15
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Tai posted:SC4 isn't meant to be a game though. It's like a blank canvas which you paint on rather then have stupid limitations, shite graphics and ''objectives'' like skylines does as do most current game do because they can't be hosed to make an actual game so they think it's fine to add cockblocks in to increase the game time length. I haven't been following it super close or anything, but in terms of limitations the game actually shipped with a pre-installed mod to unlock everything right off the bat. Plus all the 'objectives' in the game are just population milestones to ease new players into the genre by gradually adding new elements instead of throwing everything in their face at once. If you don't like that, you can turn it off, and as it stands it's going to be great at getting new people into the city-building genre, something SC4 just can't do.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:21
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Tai posted:SC4 isn't meant to be a game though. It's like a blank canvas which you paint on rather then have stupid limitations, shite graphics and ''objectives'' like skylines does as do most current game do because they can't be hosed to make an actual game so they think it's fine to add cockblocks in to increase the game time length. I don't know if that's entirely correct. It's become a zengarden city sculptor, but at its core it was initially a game with restrictions and goals just like skylines has. Go look in the rewards tab on a fresh install, there are a bunch of locked buildings that require certain populations and prerequisite building placements and all sorts of other things. The thing is, it was built in 2003 so its UI and inner workings are based on much earlier technology and design paradigms. Skylines is much more streamlined and polished because that's where game design has gone for the most part in this generation. If SC4 was developed today, even if it used abstraction instead of agents, I imagine it would work a lot like skylines does now. I mean, assuming that Will Wright and the older maxis team were doing it.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:24
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Tai posted:SC4 isn't meant to be a game though. It's like a blank canvas which you paint on rather then have stupid limitations, shite graphics and ''objectives'' like skylines does as do most current game do because they can't be hosed to make an actual game so they think it's fine to add cockblocks in to increase the game time length. This is probably the most nonsensical criticism against skylines I've seen yet. Have you ignored everything about the game except for a screenshot or two?
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Mar 16, 2015 07:43
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Tai posted:XL is better in my view without mods then SC4...  Tai posted:Now if only some company took sim city 4 and used it as an example of a decent city builder and enhanced it. 10+ years and waiting... You must mean someone taking SC4, leaving the graphics as-is, and then what? Adding curved roads? Well I'm sorry to be the bearer of shockingly bad news, but no developer or publisher will take on a losing proposition like that, and modernizing the graphics unfortunately means stepping down the scale of your sacred cow. Listen, I understand. SC4 isn't just the shining golden example to you, it was (is?) for me, and it was/is for many others. I understand that you, like I (and again many others) have invested ridiculous amount of time into SC4. Into learning, using, and abusing its intricacies. Insane amounts of hours into searching for mods and dependencies, getting them to work, putting together your own compilations. Etc, etc. I get it. We get it. If you're uncomfortable moving on, then fine. But just own up to it. It's sad to watch someone obfuscate it under so many layers of bullshit. Yes, Skylines has its issues. Yes, its scaled down from SC4, but by necessity unless you want a game in 2015 to look like a game from 2003. But Skylines is also the closest we're going to get to SC4 for now until they maybe and hopefully release a sequel. Not to mention the additional content and mass amount of mods to come. If you're so comfortable with SC4 and fear change, then fine. Just loving say so and stop making arbitrary and transparent declarations of your disgust that waste all of our time. On the other hand, if you're willing to embrace change and let go a little bit, then give Skylines an honest chance this time. Maybe get some content/mods. Maybe make your own as it's fairly easy. Third option is you're just going to get defensive, but I figured it was worth a try anyway.
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Mar 16, 2015 08:48
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I think that someone should combine GTA Online with city builder games so we can build a city and then do heists in it.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:17
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How can I build and maintain my city within the budget? I always keep on running out of money and not getting enough through taxes so I'm hosed.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:20
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Build slower, provide no city services until your income is comfortable (except water, you can start that a little earlier). Population of 30K or so is a good place to start thinking about schools and stuff.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:24
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ManOfTheYear posted:How can I build and maintain my city within the budget? I always keep on running out of money and not getting enough through taxes so I'm hosed. Keep your spending tight. When you build a school , click on it and slash that slider almost all the way to the left, like 10% or so. Wait for a bit as it fills up and then check on it from time to time to move the slider to the right. Do the same for hospitals, powerplants, etc. Plop your fire station only when the first fire starts and don't bother with the police until you've got big enough income.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:37
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Grand Fromage posted:Build slower, provide no city services until your income is comfortable (except water, you can start that a little earlier). Population of 30K or so is a good place to start thinking about schools and stuff. How the hell can I get it to 30k? Who would want to live here without any services?
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Mar 16, 2015 10:09
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Dirty poors. You can get well past 30K without any services beyond electricity and water.
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Mar 16, 2015 10:10
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Grand Fromage posted:Dirty poors. You can get well past 30K without any services beyond electricity and water. Huh. What kinda residential zones should i use? What about industrial zones?
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Mar 16, 2015 10:25
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Longbaugh01 posted:
You know, you are probably right in some ways about my defensive attitude or just bitterness in general regarding new city builders. A lot of it stems from the lack of effort that developers put into a fairly obvious cash cow that could be milked if they did it properly. I shall try to be less bitter and butthurt about a lack of SC4 v2 for you sweetie. I promise!
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Mar 16, 2015 14:15
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my biggest problem with cities: skylines? no traffic route tool
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Mar 16, 2015 16:22
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Canuck-Errant posted:my biggest problem with cities: skylines? no traffic route tool There is a mod for this now. The community is already doing pretty crazily at pumping out some mods to restore this functionality.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:25
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Longbaugh01 posted:Yes, Skylines has its issues. Yes, its scaled down from SC4, but by necessity unless you want a game in 2015 to look like a game from 2003. [/spoiler] I don't think the graphics are why the game had to be scaled down compared to SC4; SC4 had cutting edge graphics in 2003 and the scale was the same then as it is now. I think the chief culprits forcing a scaledown are taking the simulation off the grid, and tracking individual agents. I'm not as apocalyptic as Tai about it, but I'm skeptical this is a good tradeoff.
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Mar 16, 2015 17:09
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I'm actually coming around to agents after having played Cities: Skylines a bit. I'm even ok with abstracting it so one agent technically represents a few. I just wish Cities Skylines showed us the 'unskewed' population number (IE, even if a high rise only has 100 agents, we should see the more realistic number of multiple thousands), because I'm having the opposite problem I used to have with SC4. For SC4, the population numbers felt really inflated compared to what a city of a particular size would actually be- in Cities I feel the reverse is true. As I said in my previous post, add in region play/connected cities on top of that and the mod community will probably handle the rest. I'm pretty optimistic that in a year or two Cities: Skylines will completely fill the SC4 void and eclipse it.
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Mar 16, 2015 17:21
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Even if Skylines isn't your cup of tea, or that maybe it feels a little underwhelming and like it may be missing key elements, it might be better to look at it as an experiment by a relatively new generation of devs? The original simcity was not particularly complicated or deep when compared to later sims either, but I'd like to hope that skylines is going to be like the original simcity in that there will be more and increasingly better versions in the coming years. And maybe we'll get super lucky and get another simant  e: holy poo poo agents could totally work for ants, right?
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Mar 16, 2015 23:34
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Poizen Jam posted:I'm actually coming around to agents after having played Cities: Skylines a bit. I'm even ok with abstracting it so one agent technically represents a few. I just wish Cities Skylines showed us the 'unskewed' population number (IE, even if a high rise only has 100 agents, we should see the more realistic number of multiple thousands), because I'm having the opposite problem I used to have with SC4. For SC4, the population numbers felt really inflated compared to what a city of a particular size would actually be- in Cities I feel the reverse is true. There a mod for that too for the actual pop size. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406841580&searchtext=fudge
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Mar 16, 2015 23:38
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Tai posted:A lot of it stems from the lack of effort that developers put into a fairly obvious cash cow that could be milked if they did it properly. I shall try to be less bitter and butthurt about a lack of SC4 v2 for you sweetie. I promise! That's the kind of attitude that gets you a Cities XL, and not one anyone wants anywhere near any game that you are hoping will be beyond decent. No matter the genre. There's a difference between milking a cash cow and releasing a profitable, and good, game, and I think Paradox/Colossal Order subscribe to the latter. Which is what you want. And I know you're being snide, but do it for yourself. Not any of us. That was the whole point. Eric the Mauve posted:I don't think the graphics are why the game had to be scaled down compared to SC4; SC4 had cutting edge graphics in 2003 and the scale was the same then as it is now. I think the chief culprits forcing a scaledown are taking the simulation off the grid, and tracking individual agents. You're right. It's not just the graphics, but having a deeper/ less abstracted simulation that requires more processing power. But that's always been the logical next step up from SC4. I mean the greatness of SC4 isn't just that it's either a pretty model city builder, or a city building simulation that mostly works, it's that it's both of those things at the same time. You wouldn't just want an SC4 that is only putting together parts to make pretty regions that don't do anything. I'm not sure that would even qualify as a game. I believe Skylines is legitimately and wholeheartedly trying to achieve that balance, and that it's been fairly successful, with a good chance that success will increase. Apologies for the derail, although it's been a bit pertinent.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:54
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Plek posted:Even if Skylines isn't your cup of tea, or that maybe it feels a little underwhelming and like it may be missing key elements, it might be better to look at it as an experiment by a relatively new generation of devs? The original simcity was not particularly complicated or deep when compared to later sims either, but I'd like to hope that skylines is going to be like the original simcity in that there will be more and increasingly better versions in the coming years. And maybe we'll get super lucky and get another simant You say the original Simcity, but hell no one here is playing SimCity 4 -- we're all playing SimCity 4 plus the Rush Hour expansion, plus NAM and CAM mods which change so much of the underlying game and have had 10 years for the community to create, plus whatever else is in the multiple GB modpacks that are in the OP of this thread. If you aren't excited about C:S right now, then you should be excited at how moddable it is, how well it's doing for the developer (who have committed to continuing development for it), and how good of a base game it is for the future to improve upon.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:12
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piratepilates posted:You say the original Simcity, but hell no one here is playing SimCity 4 -- we're all playing SimCity 4 plus the Rush Hour expansion, plus NAM and CAM mods which change so much of the underlying game and have had 10 years for the community to create, plus whatever else is in the multiple GB modpacks that are in the OP of this thread. This is exactly what I wanted to post. I mean jesus, look how many mods are being shat out and it's barely been a month. Get stoked.
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Mar 17, 2015 02:50
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Bouchacha posted:look how many mods are being shat out and it's barely been a month. Get stoked. It's been six days. 
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Mar 17, 2015 03:00
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ExtraNoise posted:It's been six days. And someone has already ported the route query tool
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Mar 17, 2015 08:42
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CoasterMaster posted:And someone has already ported the route query tool Holy poo poo it seems all the SC modders are all over this 
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Mar 17, 2015 11:07
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Tusen Takk posted:Holy poo poo it seems all the SC modders are all over this I'm already taking a model I had been working on for SC4 a few years ago:  And prepping it to integrate into Skylines:  The shot above isn't very exciting, but what it shows is I was able to get the scale correct and actually import a mesh without any errors. At this point I'm going to clean up the original mesh for realtime use and I should be nearly ready to import (with a few more details added). Skylines is crazy easy to mod for and I'm glad to finally have a game that continues SimCity's real legacy.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:46
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ExtraNoise posted:I'm already taking a model I had been working on for SC4 a few years ago: are all mod-buildings only ploppable or can they grow like in SC4?
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Mar 17, 2015 18:59
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Tusen Takk posted:are all mod-buildings only ploppable or can they grow like in SC4? They can be either growable or ploppable. Growable buildings can only be a maximum of 4x4 tiles, however, so really large things like skyscrapers (unless they are really skinny) will always need to be ploppable. Unless someone comes out with a mod to change that, which may happen.
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Mar 17, 2015 19:32
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Nitrousoxide posted:There a mod for that too for the actual pop size. No joke thanks for posting this. This is precisely what I was looking for. Not sure SimCity 2013's algorithm is the best to fudge population numbers but I dislike how Cities severely underestimates populations so this scratches the itch. I also can't wait til a decent W2W modpack comes out.
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Mar 18, 2015 02:53
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How do you make money in SC2K? Skylines has me wanting to dive back into other games, and SC2K was the one I could never stay in the black.
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