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Cape Cod Crab Chip
Feb 20, 2011

Now you don't have to suck meat from an exoskeleton!


General question for the thread: is there anyone who would object to D2 mechanics talk not being spoiled? It's something I'm very curious about and I'd rather not do it behind black boxes, but if people would rather have that be the norm, I can dig.

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kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012







Corpse Eaters

I should probably do the rest of the story now and get me some Gig.

Unknown_PC
Oct 9, 2002

What do you mean it's not done!?

yellowcar posted:

Seems like you still gotta grind out three separate mages to unlock the star element I see.

Combined lv 80 of those mages will unlock star element. Aside from reincarnation, they also added promotion in DD2, which doesn't reset your character level (no bonus stats) and let you rank up your class.



I finally hit the postgame for DD2, there are some nice stuff. For one, Shura/LoC unlocks instantly and can be toggled on/off at the cheat shop.

The new Item Sea also allows upgrading of item quality now. Going through 30 floors of a common item will upgrade it to rare retaining its stats and item level. The new rare item starts at Item Sea floor 1 again. If you manage to clear 60 floors of rare item, it becomes a legendary.

There is also a gacha/gambling machine near the shop NPC that rolls up to rank 26 items or so. With how easy it is to bribe the dark assembly thanks to the new inventory limit, it's quite broken to pass military funds early for millions of HL. And this can be done as early as chapter 4.



Ali Aces
Jun 26, 2002



Unknown_PC posted:

The new Item Sea also allows upgrading of item quality now. Going through 30 floors of a common item will upgrade it to rare retaining its stats and item level. The new rare item starts at Item Sea floor 1 again. If you manage to clear 60 floors of rare item, it becomes a legendary.

Well that's interesting, do you know if the boss at the bottom of the legendary item still has the next rank of item on it? Can this item still spawn legendary, or does it now require you to go through 90 floors to turn it legendary?

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

It sounds like they're going "We know we hosed up the postgame of Disgaea 4. We're sorry okay?"

I'm 100% for this

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh


I'd say it sounds like they finally got the memo on all the things that were dragging the series down and instead of checking off little bits at a time they just threw the whole thing in. It's kind of jarring just how different everything is sounding, but I like it.

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received


Hunting for illegal tickets in Disgaea 3 is so tedious. Take mystery gates and hope in vain for a ticket store, and wait a turn in each floor past 20 in an item in vain for pirates. Am I missing something or is it really this slow and random?

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


Is there a reason your wallet looks like it can hold trillions of HL or is that just being considerate?

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh


Scalding Coffee posted:

Is there a reason your wallet looks like it can hold trillions of HL or is that just being considerate?

After a certain point stage bonuses start getting so high it just says "Lots" or something instead of bothering to show you an amount. You get way more money than you'll ever have a use for, though DD2 looks like it has ways to keep Hell worth something instead of becoming a goofy number on your menu screens.

Lizard Wizard
Dec 25, 2004

mep, mep


Scalding Coffee posted:

Is there a reason your wallet looks like it can hold trillions of HL or is that just being considerate?

It's the Netherworld, you dummy.

XkyRauh
Feb 15, 2005

Commander Keen is my hero.

I bought D4 on a whim after skipping D3, and while I haven't been disappointed, I've definitely felt that the game didn't bring anything significantly new to the table after I spent so much time with D2. Seeing all this information about DD2 is really tempting me to just quit D4 now and wait! Very eager to see this stateside.

Tengames
Oct 29, 2008



Unknown_PC posted:

The new Item Sea also allows upgrading of item quality now. Going through 30 floors of a common item will upgrade it to rare retaining its stats and item level. The new rare item starts at Item Sea floor 1 again. If you manage to clear 60 floors of rare item, it becomes a legendary.

By retain stats does it keep the weapon's level, or does it reset both at floor and level one?

Either way , this sounds like they just replaced reset spamming for a legendary with doing another 90 floors of item worldSea.

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

It sounds like they're going "We know we hosed up the postgame of Disgaea 4. We're sorry okay?"

I'm 100% for this
Yeah, this is enough to get me to buy another Disgaea game. And that's saying something, given how disappointed I was.

(Now if only the same "fix everything" would happen for Pokemon...)

Wrist Watch
Apr 19, 2011

What?



Lipstick Apathy

sentrygun posted:

After a certain point stage bonuses start getting so high it just says "Lots" or something instead of bothering to show you an amount. You get way more money than you'll ever have a use for, though DD2 looks like it has ways to keep Hell worth something instead of becoming a goofy number on your menu screens.

In Disgaea 2 there was a use for it in the early postgame at least, you had to pass all the "buy more expensive poo poo" bills until you reached the max and unlocked 100 Fists for a ridiculous amount of money because they were guaranteed to have armsmasters on them. Boy am I glad weapon mastery isn't in D4 so I don't have to put up with item worlding for like 20 items just to have enough armsmasters to put on two weapons.

What's up with skills still gaining exp though? I saw in the evilities shop that I could boost a skill's power in exchange for mana, but the system where they get stronger the more you use them is still in place?

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007



Wrist Watch posted:

What's up with skills still gaining exp though? I saw in the evilities shop that I could boost a skill's power in exchange for mana, but the system where they get stronger the more you use them is still in place?
Yeah, skills in D4 still get marginally more powerful as you level them up, but spending mana has way more of an impact (but also increases SP cost). Its just a relic of the old games, really. It doesn't even factor into the new tutor/pupil system like it used to.

XkyRauh
Feb 15, 2005

Commander Keen is my hero.

Speaking of the master/Pupil system, in Disgaea2, you could stand a Master and a Pupil side by side, and let the Master cast the Pupil's spells until they earned enough XP to level the spell up, and from that point on, they knew it for themselves. Is there anything like that in Disgaea4? Having the Master cast the spell didn't earn any XP.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





It's been a while since I played D4, but I think that was moved to either the Evility shop or Chara World.

Good Citizen
Aug 12, 2008


XkyRauh posted:

I bought D4 on a whim after skipping D3, and while I haven't been disappointed, I've definitely felt that the game didn't bring anything significantly new to the table after I spent so much time with D2. Seeing all this information about DD2 is really tempting me to just quit D4 now and wait! Very eager to see this stateside.

Skip the late post game if you want to but the story, DLC chapters, and early post game are all very good and don't require too much grinding, relatively speaking. D4 is probably the best game in the series available in America and DD2 is probably 6 months out. I think it's still worth playing.

D3 sucks and is not.

Kharmakazy
Jul 3, 2007


Grimey Drawer

D3 questions.. Can I not capture enemies from story missions? My understanding was that Mao had to be higher level than them, then just toss them in the base for the struggly mechanic or whatever... But I can't toss anyone into my base...

Also, magicchange. what's the deal? It won't let me use it.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...


The human and the monster have to be in the same club to Magichange in Disgaea 3. It's dumb.

If you're playing the PS3 version Magichange isn't really worth it anyways.

Kharmakazy
Jul 3, 2007


Grimey Drawer

Dr Pepper posted:

The human and the monster have to be in the same club to Magichange in Disgaea 3. It's dumb.

If you're playing the PS3 version Magichange isn't really worth it anyways.

Fair enough. I think my other problem may be due to my classroom or whatever being full.

How large of a roster can I get eventually? Only having a handful of characters is for the birds.

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh


I don't know if there's a limit to the number of people you can have (maybe 255 or something). That said, you're still restricted to 10 people and it's pretty hard to even keep that many people useful.

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

XkyRauh posted:

Speaking of the master/Pupil system, in Disgaea2, you could stand a Master and a Pupil side by side, and let the Master cast the Pupil's spells until they earned enough XP to level the spell up, and from that point on, they knew it for themselves. Is there anything like that in Disgaea4? Having the Master cast the spell didn't earn any XP.

I'm pretty certain you do this in the Chara World - "Inherit" - but only because I was flipping through some FAQs earlier. Definitely check - I think they might have to be in the same Building.

Or maybe inherit is for Evilities? I'm starting out so it's still all a bit confusing

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007



XkyRauh posted:

Speaking of the master/Pupil system, in Disgaea2, you could stand a Master and a Pupil side by side, and let the Master cast the Pupil's spells until they earned enough XP to level the spell up, and from that point on, they knew it for themselves. Is there anything like that in Disgaea4? Having the Master cast the spell didn't earn any XP.
There's an Evil Symbol for making relationships between characters, and one of them is mentor/pupil. Instead of having to learn individual skills though, once they take the oath the pupil can use any of the mentor's spells as long as they're both on the map.

Or you can just go through Chara World and buy the skills you want with mana.

Alaan
May 24, 2005



Be aware the mana cost is WAY higher in character world than just buying a skill with a character that innately has access to it.

Kharmakazy
Jul 3, 2007


Grimey Drawer

sentrygun posted:

I don't know if there's a limit to the number of people you can have (maybe 255 or something). That said, you're still restricted to 10 people and it's pretty hard to even keep that many people useful.

I have like 10 guys, and it literally won't let me make any more.

Ryanbomber
Sep 27, 2004



Kharmakazy posted:

I have like 10 guys, and it literally won't let me make any more.

If you're playing 3, your roster is limited by the size of your classroom. Either passing a bill or recruiting a story character when you're full will increase your capacity.

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh


Oh, right, I forgot about 3 and 4 placing limits on the number of characters you can have due to the classroom/campaign system. You'll get more slots soon enough though, and you can send people to detention if you want to make more without deleting them, which is useful to get rid of story characters you won't use.

Alaan
May 24, 2005



That is one really nice thing in Disgaea 4. Pretty much all your story characters are solid characters. I came back to do the DLC after a year of not playing and I was like "wtf, why don't I have a real healer or mage" until I remembered I had story line characters doing those jobs.

Kharmakazy
Jul 3, 2007


Grimey Drawer

are there not any switches or secret rooms in D3?

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Kharmakazy posted:

are there not any switches or secret rooms in D3?

Nope. That was only Disgaea 1.

D2 from a video I've seen MAY have something like that; but no idea.

JetGrind
Apr 5, 2012

Tagging the streets and humming the bassline.

in D2, or at least in Dark Hero Days since I never played the original, there was a couple of hidden buttons in the main hub that would spawn a level 100 archer to fight and beating her would grant you access to the Dark World.

God, I'm glad they got rid of that, I hated getting thrown into a dark world while training a smaller dude and suddenly whoops, you're fighting a bunch of level 200 wizards on invincibility panels, and there's also a couple of level 200 swords dudes around.

gently caress the Dark World.

Tengames
Oct 29, 2008



JetGrind posted:

in D2, or at least in Dark Hero Days since I never played the original, there was a couple of hidden buttons in the main hub that would spawn a level 100 archer to fight and beating her would grant you access to the Dark World.

God, I'm glad they got rid of that, I hated getting thrown into a dark world while training a smaller dude and suddenly whoops, you're fighting a bunch of level 200 wizards on invincibility panels, and there's also a couple of level 200 swords dudes around.

gently caress the Dark World.

the worst part of dark world was never knowing what to expect, so youd have to save before every single map because the only way out of one was to reset or game over if you couldn't win it.

These games really need an autosave

Wrist Watch
Apr 19, 2011

What?



Lipstick Apathy

Holy poo poo please tell me Disgaea 4 drops all this bullshit with geo panels at some point, this combination of enemies constantly being at least a level or two above where you'd be through normal gameplay without grinding combined with having to deal with poo poo like "whoops this whole map is filled with warp tiles and magichanged monsters that'll take off a third of your health each, gently caress you!" and "whoops this map is filled with enemies with long range weapons stuck on attack +1 tiles!" is running any excitement I had about playing it into the ground.

I haven't even touched the game in almost a week now after slowly climbing through map after map dealing with it. It's not even really hard, just tedious enough to suck the fun out of the game when I load up the fifth map in a row to be almost entirely covered with geo panels.

Kharmakazy
Jul 3, 2007


Grimey Drawer

Wrist Watch posted:

Holy poo poo please tell me Disgaea 4 drops all this bullshit with geo panels at some point, this combination of enemies constantly being at least a level or two above where you'd be through normal gameplay without grinding combined with having to deal with poo poo like "whoops this whole map is filled with warp tiles and magichanged monsters that'll take off a third of your health each, gently caress you!" and "whoops this map is filled with enemies with long range weapons stuck on attack +1 tiles!" is running any excitement I had about playing it into the ground.

I haven't even touched the game in almost a week now after slowly climbing through map after map dealing with it. It's not even really hard, just tedious enough to suck the fun out of the game when I load up the fifth map in a row to be almost entirely covered with geo panels.

I haven't played 4, but the answer to that is almost always "grind more".

Tengames
Oct 29, 2008



Wrist Watch posted:

Holy poo poo please tell me Disgaea 4 drops all this bullshit with geo panels at some point, this combination of enemies constantly being at least a level or two above where you'd be through normal gameplay without grinding combined with having to deal with poo poo like "whoops this whole map is filled with warp tiles and magichanged monsters that'll take off a third of your health each, gently caress you!" and "whoops this map is filled with enemies with long range weapons stuck on attack +1 tiles!" is running any excitement I had about playing it into the ground.

I haven't even touched the game in almost a week now after slowly climbing through map after map dealing with it. It's not even really hard, just tedious enough to suck the fun out of the game when I load up the fifth map in a row to be almost entirely covered with geo panels.
Sadly no, not even in postgame, as dark world is like 90% gently caress you geo panels. They start to get really dickish later on,putting enemies on invincibility and/or 3x enemy power panels. Postgame and endgame ramp up the dickishnes with panels that instakill whomever ends a turn on them as well as game over panels. gently caress whomever thought up game over panels.

Tengames fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2013 around 05:49

KaneTW
Dec 2, 2011



Disgaea 2 is way more annoying than Disgaea 4 in general; especially geo puzzle wise.

Wrist Watch
Apr 19, 2011

What?



Lipstick Apathy

KaneTW posted:

Disgaea 2 is way more annoying than Disgaea 4 in general; especially geo puzzle wise.

I think what's annoying me is that so far, Disgaea 4 doesn't actually use the geo panels for puzzles. It's not anything I can really solve, it's just a map full of panels that help the enemy out that I can't clear because the corresponding blocks are stuck on the other side of the map. Behind all of the enemies.

Kharmakazy
Jul 3, 2007


Grimey Drawer

Wrist Watch posted:

I think what's annoying me is that so far, Disgaea 4 doesn't actually use the geo panels for puzzles. It's not anything I can really solve, it's just a map full of panels that help the enemy out that I can't clear because the corresponding blocks are stuck on the other side of the map. Behind all of the enemies.

Sometimes it's a good idea to tower throw accross a map and sacrifice a couple of guys just to take out a particularly annoying block. A picks up B, C picks up A+B, C throws A+B, A throws B, B kills geo block.

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Marogareh
Feb 23, 2011


DD2 is looking real good and the changes are more than welcome but on the other hand I'm pretty torn on the new ZHP. Visually it looks great and you can still equip random poo poo to look like a lunatic but the tone looks painfully generic. I hope I'm wrong though.

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