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Playing Avadon 2 right now, and so far I'm enjoying it, although I'm not as enthusiastic about it as other posters. Right now I'm kind of stumped fighting Miranda at the Core. I guess I could toy around a bit more, but this game has eventually got on my nerves with its one-out-three fights being a gimmick fight. Ok, I wouldn't mind so many gimmicky fights it they were slightly less gimmicky. Speaking of which I can't beat the last of the Dharam trove boss fight, too. Any hints? I run around with a shadowalker, wizard and druid (me). Already hit the level cap.
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Nov 16, 2013 02:37
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mastervj posted:Playing Avadon 2 right now, and so far I'm enjoying it, although I'm not as enthusiastic about it as other posters. Gimmick explanation: Miranda's pets can't be killed, although they'll temporarily stop attacking if you damage them enough; they're vulnerable to daze, so you might just want to daze them and forget about them. You have to kill one of the blue orb horrors while a character is close to it (within 2-3 spaces or so) so that the blue orb is passed on to that character. Then, move that character close to Miranda (again, within 2-3 spaces) and wait for the orb to disrupt her shield. This gives you a couple of turns where you can damage her. Repeat as necessary, although with an offensively-oriented party it's possible to finish the fight before her shield comes back. quote:Ok, I wouldn't mind so many gimmicky fights it they were slightly less gimmicky. Speaking of which I can't beat the last of the Dharam trove boss fight, too. Immediately run your whole party over behind one of the constructs, so that only that one is in range to attack you. Pay attention to where the wisp goes. Attack your construct relentlessly when the wisp is in it, and take a break to heal up once the wisp moves on; eventually it'll come back on its own. Once you kill one construct the fight is over, so there's no point chasing the wisp around everywhere.
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Nov 16, 2013 03:46
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Thanks a lot!
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Nov 16, 2013 14:54
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I'm stuck at a point, and not because I am having trouble beating a boss or some sort of puzzle. But because I really don't know why I should bother with completing a quest. The Grey raptor quest specifically. Yoshira is a good enough follower for sure and I've decided I'm going for everyone's loyalty, but the justification for the quest is completely baffling and I see no reason whatsoever to do it. It is like every character involved in that scenario is an rear end and goes out of their way to look even more like an rear end when justifying themselves to me. I can't even do it for Yoshira's sake because the reason she gives is such a bad and shortsighted one.
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Nov 24, 2013 16:44
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evilmiera posted:I'm stuck at a point, and not because I am having trouble beating a boss or some sort of puzzle. But because I really don't know why I should bother with completing a quest. Yeah, the justification is kind of a stretch I guess. The old records probably don't contain anything too important, but you are still directly sabotaging Avadon by destroying them. But Yoshiria feels like she doesn't have much choice because it's the only way to get the Gray Raptors to stop hunting her down. You can skip the quest and still get Yoshiria back by just picking a fight with the Gray Raptors at the base where she's held and wiping them out, but Yoshiria will be pissed off at you and I believe it'll mention in the ending that she was eventually killed by the Gray Raptors.
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Nov 25, 2013 00:04
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Thuryl posted:Yeah, the justification is kind of a stretch I guess. It isn't even that though. She says that she actively wants to limit Avadon's power, and the best way to do that is apparently to stop them from possibly having leverage over a bunch of what I presume to be dragons, who are all assholes by destroying historic records that people may have forgotten about anyway. Which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't being hammered in that the people requesting this are the rich and powerful who bully their way around the world anyway, which would increase their possible power as a result of your actions, not to mention the power of the people they hired who are messing with you right now. This makes Yoshiria an rear end for being petty and shortsighted, her employers asses for not caring what their actions entail as long as they're payed or gain power, and their targets asses for blackmailing people. I'm not given any reason to actually care about the result of the quest beyond getting payed or possibly killing off everyone involved for wasting my time and annoying me. Which will result in my petty shadowperson hating me.
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Nov 25, 2013 21:45
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I powered through the Nethergate by virtue of setting and atmosphere I really liked and now have a lot of fun with Avadon 2 - the more distinct, set classes make the combat part more appealing to me, each time I try and go at Avernum I subconsciously force myself into a party composition of Mage + Priest + Tanks which I don't really find that interesting. In all role-playing games I love all sorts of rogues and its equivalents, yet whenever I try making a dextrous, yet not entirely ranged character I feel like I'm actively gimping myself. Assuming I'm not looking to seriously min/max, what's a fun way of making a non-poo poo roguish build that'll feel distinct from your typical tanky warrior dude?
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Nov 27, 2013 22:40
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Lichtenstein posted:I powered through the Nethergate by virtue of setting and atmosphere I really liked and now have a lot of fun with Avadon 2 - the more distinct, set classes make the combat part more appealing to me, each time I try and go at Avernum I subconsciously force myself into a party composition of Mage + Priest + Tanks which I don't really find that interesting. Make a melee shadowwalker who focuses on the middle and right branches of the skill tree. You can use Shadowstep to jump around the battlefield stunning enemies, and if you have another melee character in the party you can get a huge backstab bonus to damage when you're both adjacent to the same enemy.
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Nov 28, 2013 00:01
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I meant Avernum series. It's easy to feel roguish in Avadon, with shadowwalkers, but I'm short on ideas in Avernum to get this sort of playstyle, other than the obligatory backstab levels.
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Nov 28, 2013 00:38
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evilmiera posted:It isn't even that though. She says that she actively wants to limit Avadon's power, and the best way to do that is apparently to stop them from possibly having leverage over a bunch of what I presume to be dragons, who are all assholes by destroying historic records that people may have forgotten about anyway. Which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't being hammered in that the people requesting this are the rich and powerful who bully their way around the world anyway, which would increase their possible power as a result of your actions, not to mention the power of the people they hired who are messing with you right now. This makes Yoshiria an rear end for being petty and shortsighted, her employers asses for not caring what their actions entail as long as they're payed or gain power, and their targets asses for blackmailing people. I'm not given any reason to actually care about the result of the quest beyond getting payed or possibly killing off everyone involved for wasting my time and annoying me. Which will result in my petty shadowperson hating me. The sneaky assassin being a straight up bad person seems pretty fitting.
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Nov 28, 2013 00:40
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Lichtenstein posted:I meant Avernum series. It's easy to feel roguish in Avadon, with shadowwalkers, but I'm short on ideas in Avernum to get this sort of playstyle, other than the obligatory backstab levels. Oh, right, I get you now. In Avernum: Escape from the Pit, probably the best you can do is focus on Strength over Endurance, and on the Blademaster/Quick Action/Dual Wield/Lethal Blow side of the warrior skill tree rather than the Hardiness/Parry side. This is actually quite a decent option for a second fighter if you've got two in the party: the first one stands at the front and has a more tanky build, while the second one stays just behind and does more damage. Once you start maxing out skills in the later parts of the game their builds will start to converge a bit, but for most of the game you can make them function quite differently.
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Nov 28, 2013 01:55
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That's basically how I played all six Avernum games. It's not a bad way to go.
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Nov 28, 2013 02:06
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I've been playing through Avadon 2 so far, and really enjoying it -- I like that the choice that the game is pushing at me seem to be less between supporting Avadon and opposing Avadon, and more between supporting Avadon, opposing Avadon and profiting from Avadon. I'm not entirely sure how much of an effect the things I say and do are having. I've been playing through the game with a mindset of strengthening Avadon and shouting Redbeard's virtues as much as I can, in the interests of eventually growing rich and powerful and corrupt as his second-in-command. Which made the moment when I returned from the final (I assume) Tawon mission to report back to Redbeard wonderful: Me: Great news! I found Dheless and killed him. Redbeard: Congratulations! But no time to waste -- we must continue the hunt for our nemesis Dheless.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:47
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Nethergate really seems to be the black sheep of the series. I have no experience with it so I can't say personally, but I'm not sure if it's due to it being not that good, a one-off game (so far) from a studio built on serieses (especially now with Avadon 2 out), or some other reason. I find the premise intriguing and I have the game on Steam (it's not on GOG for some reason) and DRM free from a bundle... I should have a go at it someday. I think that it allows 6-man parties, which is right up my street. I've never been happy that Exile had parties of 6 while all of the Avernum remakes had only 4.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:44
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JustJeff88 posted:Nethergate really seems to be the black sheep of the series. I have no experience with it so I can't say personally, but I'm not sure if it's due to it being not that good, a one-off game (so far) from a studio built on serieses (especially now with Avadon 2 out), or some other reason. I find the premise intriguing and I have the game on Steam (it's not on GOG for some reason) and DRM free from a bundle... I should have a go at it someday. I think that it allows 6-man parties, which is right up my street. I've never been happy that Exile had parties of 6 while all of the Avernum remakes had only 4. It's actually quite good, it's just that it was a one-off game, so it doesn't get nearly the support or love of any of the rest of his stuff. I've never heard why he never made a follow-up. The original and the remake were both fairly successful AFAIK so don't think it was poor sales or anything of that nature. Might just be that he couldn't think of anywhere else to go with the storyline.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:00
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I recall Jeff Vogel writing that Nethergate actually sold very poorly at the time of its release, to the point of almost shuttering the business. It was only with the later remake and newer pricing model/digital distribution that he made decent profit out of it. That said, Nethergate is definitely worth a playthrough, even two since it offers such a distinct and flavorful duality in the conflict (you can be either a heavily-armed and well-trained squad of elite Roman soldiers who squashes the barbarians with martial prowess, or a desperate but spiritually attuned and fairie-favored band of Celts who drive the invaders from your homeland with ancient magic). The setting and mythical backdrop is very enchanting, one of the strongest that Vogel's ever written. I personally love it.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:23
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From what I recall the big problem with Nethergate is that it wasn't mechanically different enough from Exile (the Celtic/Roman divide ended up hurting it amongst would-be fans) to really stand out, and while I love the setting and backdrops, for most people it was just "Exile but without all the stuff you like about Exile."
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Dec 11, 2013 02:35
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Nethergate was drastically different from Exile (while still in the parameters of a party-based RPG) though. It was Vogel's first isometric game in the engine that would later run the Avernum series. But regardless of whether people overlooked it for some reason or another at the time of release, the game is still a hidden gem that's worth playing today, especially if you already have it as part of a bundle. I don't know why people are so dismissive of it since it's hardly a bad game and actually one of his strongest showings.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:53
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Jeff's blogged a bit about Nethergate and he thinks the historical setting was a big part of the problem -- at the time of its release he saw a lot of reviewers and websites filing it under "educational games", which is pretty much the kiss of death for marketing a game to anyone but schools (which weren't really going to be buying Nethergate). The further he moves away from generic fantasy, the worse his games sell: Avernum and Avadon are his best-selling series by far.
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Dec 11, 2013 03:12
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Thuryl posted:Jeff's blogged a bit about Nethergate and he thinks the historical setting was a big part of the problem -- at the time of its release he saw a lot of reviewers and websites filing it under "educational games", which is pretty much the kiss of death for marketing a game to anyone but schools (which weren't really going to be buying Nethergate). The further he moves away from generic fantasy, the worse his games sell: Avernum and Avadon are his best-selling series by far. I think that that says a lot more about reviewers being thick than anything about Jeff. Trying a fantastic David vs. Goliath story in a semi-historical context is a fresh idea - sad that he was all but punished for that. Plus, I'm disappointed that people didn't buy it because it wasn't vanilla fantasy, and the fact that I can say that with no irony is rather bizarre.
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Dec 11, 2013 03:45
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I think at the time the market was a lot less receptive to things like that, plus I mean this was like 1999. Also I think it suffers in the long term because it was the first game to use the isometric new "Avernum" engine before Avernum came out, and was not very intuitively user-friendly compared to the Exile games before and the Avernum games that came after. Nethergate: Resurrection plays a lot better because it uses the last generation of the engine, though. Personally, Nethergate is Jeff's only game I've yet to really get into beyond putting a couple hours into the demo like fourteen years ago, I should really give it a serious shot again.
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Dec 11, 2013 05:48
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JustJeff88 posted:I think that that says a lot more about reviewers being thick than anything about Jeff. Trying a fantastic David vs. Goliath story in a semi-historical context is a fresh idea - sad that he was all but punished for that. Plus, I'm disappointed that people didn't buy it because it wasn't vanilla fantasy, and the fact that I can say that with no irony is rather bizarre. Vanilla fantasy sells in general. People like familiarity, it's not necessarily a bad thing - it helps you get up to speed pretty fast when the elves act like elves and the dwarves act like dwarves and etc., which is a major problem a lot of more esoteric settings/games have as mass appeal goes. Not that it's not a shame that settings like Geneforge's doesn't spike because it's cool as hell and I want to see it do well, but it's not like it happens in a vacuum.
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Dec 11, 2013 05:49
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Now that Avadon 2 is out, I'm hoping he's going to slam together the 2nd remake of
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Dec 11, 2013 09:50
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I've mentioned this in the Steam Trading Thread with no interest for some reason, and I hope that the thread and the mods will forgive me but I hate having games sitting around unplayed. I have all of the Spiderweb games on Steam and GOG and I payed for that mega-bundle that was up a few months bank. I still have all of the Steam keys for those, so if anyone fancies them I'd like to find them a good home. I'd prefer to trade for a cheaper Steam game on my wish list, but mostly I just want to share the wealth. I know this isn't a trading thread but it is a Spiderweb thread, so I hope that this won't go amiss.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:07
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JustJeff88 posted:I've mentioned this in the Steam Trading Thread with no interest for some reason, and I hope that the thread and the mods will forgive me but I hate having games sitting around unplayed. I have all of the Spiderweb games on Steam and GOG and I payed for that mega-bundle that was up a few months bank. I still have all of the Steam keys for those, so if anyone fancies them I'd like to find them a good home. I'd prefer to trade for a cheaper Steam game on my wish list, but mostly I just want to share the wealth. I'll take them if you don't mind. My steam name is soadtoad. Any particular game you want from your wishlist?
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Dec 11, 2013 17:37
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waggles posted:I'll take them if you don't mind. My steam name is soadtoad. Any particular game you want from your wishlist? I don't know how to link my Steam wish list in threads, so I'll just list in order of preference all of the lower-ticket ($15 and under) games on my wishlist. Forge Quest Dungeon Dashers Desktop Dungeons PAC-MAN Championship Edition DX+ Pool Nation If you'd want to wait a week or 10 days for the Steam sales to begin, I wouldn't blame you. I have separate keys for: Avadon: The Black Fortress (Avadon 1) The Geneforge Saga (Geneforge 1-5) The Second Avernum Trilogy (IV-VI) Avernum: Escape from the Pit Nethergate: Ressurection
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Dec 11, 2013 20:01
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I'll take The Genoforge Saga and Avernum: Escape from the Pit. What's your Steam name?
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Dec 12, 2013 03:47
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waggles posted:I'll take The Genoforge Saga and Avernum: Escape from the Pit. What's your Steam name? Three-Quarters Badger{EMC} - I'll log into my friends account
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Dec 12, 2013 03:53
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evilmiera posted:Yoshira is a good enough follower for sure and I've decided I'm going for everyone's loyalty, but the justification for the quest is completely baffling and I see no reason whatsoever to do it. Yeah, it was around about that point that I decided that gently caress the Grey Raptors, if the Hands can be above the law when it suits them then they can drat well be above the Super Ninja Friends Club extorting them. I made a point of killing every last Raptor in that place, and was genuinely disappointed that my character ended up paying them blood money to settle the matter in the epilogue.
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Dec 13, 2013 15:34
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I've only just started Avadon but I've decided to treat it the way I treated Geneforge; loyalty to the Shapers, loyalty to Redbeard! The Pact knows what's best for you. I'm going to carry out my duties as a Hand to the fullest extent of the law, no mercy for the rest.
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Dec 15, 2013 08:03
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Not sure if anyone's all that interested at this stage, but GOG have all of Geneforge and Avernum (and the first Avadon) on sale for $13. Of course the pack includes the Eschalon games, which were relentlessly mediocre, but hey. If you exclude them completely you're still barely paying a dollar a game.
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Dec 31, 2013 14:06
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Anyone have any advice for someone playing Nethergate? I'm really drawn to this game because of the Roman/Celt motif, the fact that you can have 6 people in a party (4 is always too few and I've always resented Avernum for going back down to 4) and that this game is something of a black sheep of the series compared to Geneforge/Avernum/Avadon as it isn't part of a series. I know that you can start with 4 characters, but the pre-made quartet is probably like most games in that it's not very good, so I wanted to ask. I want to play a caster-heavy group, so I am planning to go Celt but I would like build advice as well. I'd also appreciate learning how 5th and 6th party members work. Are they found at various points in the plot like in Baldur's Gate or do you hire them from a guild of some sort? Is there a list of specific ones out there or are they randomly generated/player generated? Much obliged for any input
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Jan 2, 2014 20:05
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A caster-heavy group is definitely viable - You still want one meatshield, but three casters is definitely an effective (and fun) way to go. However, one quirk is that because of the way Circles are linked together (e.g., can't raise Beast Circle higher than your current War Circle rating), odds are dedicated casters will look pretty similar by the end game so that you can access the high-level Spirit Circle spells. As you go along in the game, you can intentionally develop them differently early on (this is my guy who focuses on attack magic, this is the guy focused on healing), but at some point they're going to need to even out in order to continue progressing. Because of this, if you're going with three casters, I'd probably suggest having one of them be more of a Paladin/Red Mage style - Focus only on a couple circles (Healing and War probably), put only a minimal amount of points into Intellect/Druidism and use the spare skill points to become decent with physical attacks and armor.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:42
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JustJeff88 posted:Anyone have any advice for someone playing Nethergate? I'm really drawn to this game because of the Roman/Celt motif, the fact that you can have 6 people in a party (4 is always too few and I've always resented Avernum for going back down to 4) and that this game is something of a black sheep of the series compared to Geneforge/Avernum/Avadon as it isn't part of a series. Note: this advice assumes you're playing the original Nethergate. If you're playing the remake, Nethergate: Resurrection, some of the skills work slightly differently. (In particular, Endurance is nearly useless in the original, but a lot better in the remake.) My starting party back when I played as the Celts was one melee fighter and three druids. My fighter invested skill points mostly in Strength, Dexterity, Swords, Hardiness and Defense, in order to be a tank who could also dish out some damage. Armor Use is expensive for Celts and of course they can't use body armour anyway, but it's still worthwhile to have at least a little, especially if you're going to use a shield. In the long run, all of your druids will probably max out every spellcasting circle, but early on I like to have one focus primarily on Health Circle, another focus primarily on War Circle, while the third puts points in all circles in order to beeline for Spirit Circle early on: that gives your party the widest range of spells available to them. I also like to invest a little in Slings on everyone, especially the druids, so that they have a free ranged attack to use for when they need to conserve spell points. There are specific hirelings that you can find in towns during the game. They also have specific starting skillsets, but once you've recruited them, it's just like having another player character, with full control over their actions in combat and their levelups from that point on. This guide has more detailed information (particularly the "Skills" and "Character Traits" subsections under the "Hints" section). edit: here's a more detailed and accurate analysis of the exact effects of each character trait. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 02:06
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Thuryl posted:Note: this advice assumes you're playing the original Nethergate. If you're playing the remake, Nethergate: Resurrection, some of the skills work slightly differently. (In particular, Endurance is nearly useless in the original, but a lot better in the remake.) Thanks for the advice, Thuryl. I was talking about Ressurection as I'm sure even where to get the original Nethergate (I don't think that it's freeware direct from SpiderWeb, unlike the Exile games) and I would have to run it in an XP Virtual Machine and deal with those ancient controls. Your party above sounds right up my street - I want to be able to (eventually) use every ability and play with every spell, etc. Any advice on where to get good companions? I definitely want to run with a 6-man party, and with 1 tank and 3 casters I feel like I should recruit another tank and maybe a ranged-weapon specialist? Is there a list of companions and where they are anywhere online? I googled it an had no luck.
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Jan 3, 2014 22:27
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The strategy page off the official forums should give you some info. The recruits will be in a tavern or some such in one of the big towns, don't worry you won't miss them by accident. Celt recruit choices will already be orientated towards combat skills IIRC. I wouldn't specialize solely on ranged weapons, personally. Slings are nice because they are light and they have infinite ammo but they aren't so tremendous that you can rely on them as your sole method of dealing damage; they're more so that your druids have a ranged alternative when they're too drained off energy to shoot off a spell.
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Jan 4, 2014 03:37
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Ranged weapons have always kind of lagged behind melee/spells in Spiderweb games, save for Exile/Avernum 3, where they absolutely crush everything, especially once you find the Fury Crossbow artifact.
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Jan 4, 2014 04:43
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sitchelin posted:Ranged weapons have always kind of lagged behind melee/spells in Spiderweb games, save for Exile/Avernum 3, where they absolutely crush everything, especially once you find the Fury Crossbow artifact. In Avadon 1, if you train up dexterity to the exclusion of anything else you are a crazy dodging machine who can cut enemies to ribbons from any distance. It was nerfed in Avadon 2, naturally.
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Jan 4, 2014 08:38
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Wish I had known that. My main dude is a Shadow-walker, and I've built him, Shima, and Sevilin to be halberd-wielding slaughtermachines. I'm still struggling on Beloch. gently caress him and his endless slow/stuns. I remember there was a person in the Kellem woods who can help you re-specialize your characters but I don't think it applies to base stats, I might give it a look. Speaking of Avadon 2, how is the Tinkermage? I bought Avadon 2 during the steam sale but only dabbled with it since I'm close to finishing Avadon 1. Horace Kinch fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 08:54
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The Moon Monster posted:The sneaky assassin being a straight up bad person seems pretty fitting. It isn't that she's a bad person so much as she's an idiot for thinking her actions will have any sort of positive consequences even with her worldview. And the Tinkermage is tons of fun, his towers can really help tie up enemy resources and with enough points in those AOE towers you can clear entire rooms of enemies with a few lucky placements.
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Jan 4, 2014 09:07
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