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I hate Vlish. I also hate forgetting to save after a fight and then getting killed in a ghost ambush. Still kind of loving the game, even if I'm not good at it.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:19
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The ruined school is frustrating me. I've turned it over 3 times and it's still saying I'm missing something... edit: ooooh. never mind.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:27
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Arrhythmia posted:The ultimate in "... did I leave the stove on?" 'Did I leave the stove on?' is pretty much the entire plot of the Geneforge series. It's great.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:30
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There are a bunch of locked doors there, have you opened them all? The map isn't terribly complex but remember levers don't show up on the map when not in line of sight. To make the node green you must Talk to the servant mind which requires the key from Rawbone in the middle of the map.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:31
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I started playing on the level below Torment, and its kicking my rear end real hard. I might turn it down, its getting a bit tedious to have to run back to a village every two fights to heal up.
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Feb 27, 2021 06:14
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Having played some more, I really like a lot of the new story additions. Adding the new fuckup Shapers and Inutiles gives even more insight to how incredibly awful Shaper society is and the new quests are fun and fill some holes from the original game. It also seems like there may be new endings designed to support a 'kill everyone' playstyle
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Feb 27, 2021 17:53
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GodFish posted:I started playing on the level below Torment, and its kicking my rear end real hard. I might turn it down, its getting a bit tedious to have to run back to a village every two fights to heal up.
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Mar 1, 2021 01:52
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I've never played a Spiderweb game before, but I'm jonesing for a meaty RPG. I have limited funds so, thread, tell me which one to get: Geneforge or Avernum?
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Mar 1, 2021 06:38
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Oldstench posted:I've never played a Spiderweb game before, but I'm jonesing for a meaty RPG. I have limited funds so, thread, tell me which one to get: Geneforge or Avernum? I'd say neither of them have combat that's interesting in itself, and both have fairly solid writing, so it comes down to the setting. I'd say Geneforge's setting is more interesting, at least in part because that series has more varied endings, and I'm a sucker for those. Avernum is a IMO fairly generic fantasy setting which takes place mostly in underground caves. You make a standard rpg party and go adventuring. The writing (especially the narration) is what makes it stand out. A bigger fan than I could sell the setting better. Geneforge is a Science Fantasy setting where magical genetic engineering (shaping) gets used for all kinds of things, notably intelligent slaves (serviles), combat drones (various creations you can make and control in-game), transhumanism (canisters & the Geneforge proper) and also sci-fan computers/AI's (servant minds). Also less important things like sliding doors and automatic lights. In keeping with the Sci-fan part, the games explore what happens when the serviles and servant minds get left alone for a long time, develop their own ideas about what they want for themselves/the world, and how they interact with their once-masters. Also notably for the first 3 games in the setting having you as a low-tier member of the ruling class (the Shapers), with supporting their rule and suppressing rebellion being perfectly possible runs, which can end in a good ending for your character (if not the setting).
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Mar 1, 2021 07:10
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"in a cave" makes Avernum sound like a horrible boring dungeon grind. It is underground according to the lore, but it's a big open world in terms of gameplay. I'm about 10 hours in and loving it.
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Mar 1, 2021 13:24
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Yeah, a cave is the physical setting but the interesting thing in Avernum is the cultural setting: Avernum is an inhospitable prison colony where the Empire dumps dissenters and leaves them to die. It turns the default RPG approach of "you are in a cosy pastoral place that's threatened by an external foe, go have adventures to fix that" on its head because in Avernum nowhere is cosy, all the towns you visit are clinging to survival and threatened by the many dangers of the caves. It's a story about valiant underdogs scraping out a living against a vast, mysterious and uncaring darkness, and still maintaining a few bits of light and humanity despite that.
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Mar 1, 2021 13:44
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rt4 posted:"in a cave" makes Avernum sound like a horrible boring dungeon grind. It is underground according to the lore, but it's a big open world in terms of gameplay. I'm about 10 hours in and loving it.
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Mar 1, 2021 14:26
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Oldstench posted:I've never played a Spiderweb game before, but I'm jonesing for a meaty RPG. I have limited funds so, thread, tell me which one to get: Geneforge or Avernum? Yes
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Mar 1, 2021 15:07
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Oldstench posted:I've never played a Spiderweb game before, but I'm jonesing for a meaty RPG. I have limited funds so, thread, tell me which one to get: Geneforge or Avernum? The links below have demo versions on Spiderweb's own as I don't know if the demos are easy to find/access on Steam. Avernum : Escape from the Pit https://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/avernum/avernum/index.html is a bit meatier system-wise (if it's just Avernum, then it's the first remake not the second, Not awful but resolution issues and no windowed mode unless you put an OpenGL wrapper on it or something IIRC) with more open ended exploraton. Geneforge : Mutagen https://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/geneforge/index.html has more story options that change things and is pretty interesting. But one PC + summons does just leave it a fair bit more streamlined. I'd love to suggest Queen's Wish, but it's just a little too weird in some things like graphical design to suggest to someone with funding issues. EDIT : As Cardio says below, if money is tight, grabbing the cheapest humble monthly that gets you the trove is not a bad idea. It includes Blackguards as well, which is not Jeff Vogel at all, but IIRC is a very crunchy tactical rpg? Tylana fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 15:12
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For a tenner, you can get Humble Choice for a month which will give you access to DRM-free downloads of the entire Avadon series, which you can then keep even if you cancel your subscription. It's not Avernum or Geneforge, but they're pretty solid games and it's not a bad deal just for that alone, even without counting the 100-ish or so other free games that are also in the download library.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:15
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Oldstench posted:I've never played a Spiderweb game before, but I'm jonesing for a meaty RPG. I have limited funds so, thread, tell me which one to get: Geneforge or Avernum? Avernum, IMO, but Geneforge is also very good.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:16
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Tylana posted:
I mean, none of these games is graphically sophisticated. Queen's Wish has overall solid design and writing though which is what Spiderweb offers. I just realized I have a near-endgame Avernum: Escape from the Pit save game from back before the remasters of Avernum 2 and 3 came out, and I never went back and finished it or played the next two games in sequence. Does much if anything carry over to the next game? Is there a link I can read somewhere on what carries over and what doesn't? It looks like I saved right before making various "final choices." Not sure if I should just Jump Ahead to the next game or go back and try to figure out what my builds were and finish the first one out.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:23
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Avernum is a modern game that is the closest to classic Ultima or Might & Magic games in many ways. You are in a mostly open world full of quests. Your party is faceless heroes doing heroic things. The story is relatively simple. Geneforge is one of the few games in the vein of Fallout 1/2 or Fallout New Vegas. At least Geneforge 5 was, I haven't played 1/Mutagen yet. You get a semi-open world with a lot of factions and moral choices, giving personality to your lone hero. The game is somewhat replayable cause you get a different set of challenges depending on your story choices and character stats. The story is quite complex. I know those games look very similar but the difference between them is much more than, say, the difference between Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas (two other games on the same engine but with a different philosophy).
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Mar 1, 2021 15:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I mean, none of these games is graphically sophisticated. Queen's Wish has overall solid design and writing though which is what Spiderweb offers. I mean. Queen's Wish worked for me, though I did get distracted about halfway through (maybe less if there's a big fourth area after the three parallel ones). I think it is great, if you already know you vibe with Jeff's work. But not an easy thing to say "Yes spend your money on this." There's no savegame transfer between Avernums. The three endings are worth seeing, but you can probably just look up the LP.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Does much if anything carry over to the next game? Is there a link I can read somewhere on what carries over and what doesn't? It looks like I saved right before making various "final choices." Not sure if I should just Jump Ahead to the next game or go back and try to figure out what my builds were and finish the first one out. Nothing carries over.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:34
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Tylana posted:(maybe less if there's a big fourth area after the three parallel ones) There's a 4th area that's maybe the size of 1/2 of the first 3 parallel ones, fwiw.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:34
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Thanks all for the suggestions. I'm gonna go with Avernum next time it's on sale. The comparison to Ultima/M&M has sold me. I was never huge into Fallout so the comparisons with Geneforge make me a bit less interested.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:47
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Cardiovorax posted:Yeah, Avernum's setting is a cave in the same way the Death Star is a space station - if the game didn't tell you otherwise, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Avernum 1 and Avernum 3 (which actually takes place above-ground) other than by the fact that the ground is grey instead of a grassy green. The scale of the world and the freedom of movement you are afforded is as open-world as it gets. I think Avernum 5 gave off the "you are in an underworld" vibe. Gladi fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 15:52
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i dunno if fallout is really a good comparison for geneforge anyways given that it's primarily rear end in a top hat wizards with access to dna editing. like first and foremost it's still weird fantasy, just viewed in a different way.
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Mar 1, 2021 15:52
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Johnny Joestar posted:i dunno if fallout is really a good comparison for geneforge anyways given that it's primarily rear end in a top hat wizards with access to dna editing. like first and foremost it's still weird fantasy, just viewed in a different way.
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Mar 1, 2021 16:01
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I haven't compared the stories but gameplay structure. When you think about there aren't that many single character tactical RPGs allowing for a variety of approaches, and the gameplay systems are well integrated (as in it's not just combat encounters paired with an almost independent visual novel like most RPGs). Tactical turn-based RPGs tend to have a lot of player characters and not a lot of player choice. It's sad to me that in spite of a lot of games supposedly being inspired by Fallout I struggle to name a lot beyond Geneforge. Usually the inspiration hoes at snatching the aesthetics, not some of the best ideas of the genre. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 16:11
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yeah, i've mostly just had to sell the game to a few people in the past who were initially turned off of it because they got the impression it was some bizarre post-apocalyptic thing almost due to screenshots and the weird, mutant-ish looking monsters.
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Mar 1, 2021 16:13
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It wouldn't even remotely surprise me if Jeff Vogel based Geneforge's mechanics primarily off of Fallout. He's well-known for appropriating mechanics from any games he thinks are doing something interesting.
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Mar 1, 2021 16:13
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And more power to him for that. If you're going to steal, steal from the best. That said, just because it can be compared to Fallout in structure doesn't mean this is a Fallout-specific thing or even that Fallout pioneered it. It's just a notable and recognizable name that makes for a good example. Tons of other games work exactly the same way, it's simply a very solid structure for a game to have.
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Mar 1, 2021 16:29
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I always suspected he'd been more inspired by Pokémon, honestly. The series would have only been a few years old at that point, and there's a big focus on having monsters fight for you and evolve into stronger versions.
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Mar 1, 2021 16:30
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Sidenote on Geneforge : Mutagen. The inventory limit hates my item-hoarding butt so bad. Also almost all my points are in Leadership and Mechanics but I still insist on getting into fights and not buying Stealth. RIP me.  People may or may not know the Spiderweb Software forums have a few hardcore fans who make very comprehensive guides. So if you say, want to know what is trash and what is used in a later quest  As the link says Massive Spoilers https://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/26270-gf1-m-atlas-to-quests-and-items-massive-spoilers/will tell you (it's at the top before big spoilers) I kind of miss gathering some bags of meal or tongs or whatever, even if it is kind of dumb. Tylana fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 16:35
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Whybird posted:I always suspected he'd been more inspired by Pokémon, honestly. The series would have only been a few years old at that point, and there's a big focus on having monsters fight for you and evolve into stronger versions.
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Mar 1, 2021 16:37
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The item limit is honestly the biggest thing I find irritating about the game. 25 slots just isn't enough - I'm only halfway through the game and merely keeping my basic consumables (tools, healing pods/spores, curing pods/spores, essence pods, etc) is taking up more than half my inventory.
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Mar 1, 2021 17:55
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Whybird posted:I always suspected he'd been more inspired by Pokémon, honestly. He's allowed to pull inspiration from multiple sources! I do remember him speaking with some pride about how Exile II did the "capture monster and use it to fight for you" thing before Pokemon did. Of course there's differences in implementation, and IIRC other games have done similar stuff even earlier -- I think there was an NES Romance of the Three Kingdoms game where you could capture enemy generals and recruit them to your team, for example.
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Mar 1, 2021 18:17
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Using Capture Soul on an Empire Archer made the first half of Exile 3 a breeze.
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Mar 1, 2021 19:12
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Oldstench posted:Thanks all for the suggestions. I'm gonna go with Avernum next time it's on sale. The comparison to Ultima/M&M has sold me. I was never huge into Fallout so the comparisons with Geneforge make me a bit less interested. Have fun! I'm glad to see that the Avernum fans came out of the woodwork to give the series justice in a way I couldn't 
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Mar 1, 2021 19:15
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One more tip for Mutagen; there's 2 new sidequests you might want to keep in mind while playing. One adds 4 sub-areas to several of the existing locations in the game full of level 13+ creations guarding some pools of essence you can use to power up one of 2 artifacts. One of them is a kind of memey thing that lets your unarmed attack get to truly ridiculous levels. The other gives you and all your creations stat bonuses. It is absolutely not worth clearing the areas out before you get the gloves to power up though, there's no other reward and the enemies are tough as poo poo at low levels. The other sidequest involves powering up a sword by absorbing 3 canisters worth of goo with it. This will give you the strongest sword in the game or you can use it to finish a sidequest. You might want to save some canisters that you're not going to be using, like the individual buff ones if you're planning on being able to cast Mass Energize which does them all at once etc. Also the end of the Cockatrice sidequest is absolutely kicking my rear end on Veteran  4 waves of 4 level 16 Cockatrices come out on 2 turn delay timer, each with different buffs (attack, HP, etc) and it gives you debuffs every spawn. I can get to the final round but usually die there and absolutely can't figure out how to get past it when it mostly seems to come down to my creations getting lucky enough to dodge their big AoEs because they can one-shot anything but Battle Alphas/Betas on a crit
Zore fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 19:29
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And Tyler Too! posted:Using Capture Soul on an Empire Archer made the first half of Exile 3 a breeze. Capture Soul shenanigans were one of the best parts of Exile 2 and 3. In addition to the Empire Archer, there were obvious big hitters like the Dervish (or was it Blademaster) that was a melee blender, or a Basilisk which would spam save or dies multiple times per round. I think there was an easy-to-get Vahnatai badass rear end as well? I also loved grabbing a Null Bug and dropping it on top of enemy casters, though that fell off later when melee support would mulch it in a turn or two.
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Mar 1, 2021 19:29
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The self-damage on the overload skill a lot of bosses in the Geneforge remake have seems kinda overtuned. Once they use it they pretty much only have three or four turns to live, so you can beat them by just running away at that point.
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Mar 1, 2021 19:55
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Zore posted:The other sidequest involves powering up a sword by absorbing 3 canisters worth of goo with it. This will give you the strongest sword in the game or you can use it to finish a sidequest. You might want to save some canisters that you're not going to be using, like the individual buff ones if you're planning on being able to cast Mass Energize which does them all at once etc.
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Mar 1, 2021 21:03
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