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I remember playing those shareware Exile demos over and over again, restarting whenever the shareware demon locked me out of the rest of the game. I just assumed I would never experience the full game because I could never convince my mom to send a check to some random guy's basement in Seattle. It's pretty awesome how I can now get the whole series for practically a pittance as an adult 
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Mar 9, 2013 12:30
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To be fair, the guy's reasoning is that these re-remakes on the updated engine will play nicer on modern systems, something that his older games are starting to struggle with. I don't really take it as a craven cash grab or a rehash of stale ideas. It's sort of when Exile first became Avernum: perhaps the same core idea but with updated gameplay and graphics and content. This is my second time double-dipping (triple-dipping?  ) into technically the same game, but I feel I got my money's worth with all the new dungeons, gameplay elements, and refinements put into the new Avernum. I guess the benefit is that completely new people to the series get to play the definitive version while old fans have something new to experience on a second go around.I've played all the Spiderweb games and I still feel like the new Avernum does enough things differently to be worth buying again. Still, if you're on the fence, I'd probably wait for the inevitable low-priced bundle after the other games come out.
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Mar 17, 2013 02:56
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I'll probably buy Avadon 2 but I felt that Avadon was a bit of a letdown compared to his other series. The setting isn't as exotic as Geneforge, Nethergate, or even the baseline Exile/Avernum, even though he's stated Avadon was a concerted effort to do something new. And I hate to poo poo on all the effort that he put into it, but his attempt to flesh out the companions and build a focused campaign story also fell flat for me. Vogel's normally great at building up a big picture as you explore the setting and injecting a lot of personality in incidental NPCs in his other games, I just think he's not used to doing it with a set party and a fixed campaign progression. A lot of the central narrative also seemed to be focused on building up Redbeard, who I just couldn't find compelling, moreso than the player character. I also disliked a lot of the design decisions like the intersecting ability tree requiring you to take ranks in a useless/unwanted ability just to get ranks in a higher tier ability.
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Oct 30, 2013 21:18
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So I grabbed Avadon 2 off GOG and am thinking about making a tinkermage but again the ability trees for this series bugs the hell out of me. I want to build a ranged and turret tinkermage specialist but a lot of the prerequisites are geared for a melee build. Hell, two out of the three baseline skills that you need to increase for everything else are melee focused. So if I want to focus on just throwing grenades and missiles, I'm still forced into upping stuff like melee damage and armor which would be useless for my chosen playstyle. People have complained that Avadon railroads players, and I think this applies even to character creation, when you can't even customize to your liking and half of your level ups are "wasted" on meeting unfun prereqs.
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Nov 2, 2013 21:10
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There's a hidden switch along the walls that you have to press.
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Nov 9, 2013 01:33
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You don't have to kill all the golems at once. An easy way to do that fight is to move up to the middle of the room until you activate the golems, then run immediately back towards the stairway. Stay within at least one tile of the exit, activate your buffs and summons (the scarab that gives you call aid is useful for redirecting some damage), then hold your ground while the guardians rush you. You'll want to kill one golem, then run away through the stairway. Go back to the main floor of Avadon to regain health and vitality. Head back to the room and rinse and repeat, killing at least golem per encounter. They don't respawn and will sometimes reset their positions, making it much easier to face once you've cleared out a few. The golems are tricky because they have knockback and stun, which can prevent you from running back down the stairs if you're unlucky. But as long as you can pick off one and run away before they overwhelm you, the fight is manageable.
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Nov 13, 2013 22:34
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I recall Jeff Vogel writing that Nethergate actually sold very poorly at the time of its release, to the point of almost shuttering the business. It was only with the later remake and newer pricing model/digital distribution that he made decent profit out of it. That said, Nethergate is definitely worth a playthrough, even two since it offers such a distinct and flavorful duality in the conflict (you can be either a heavily-armed and well-trained squad of elite Roman soldiers who squashes the barbarians with martial prowess, or a desperate but spiritually attuned and fairie-favored band of Celts who drive the invaders from your homeland with ancient magic). The setting and mythical backdrop is very enchanting, one of the strongest that Vogel's ever written. I personally love it.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:23
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Nethergate was drastically different from Exile (while still in the parameters of a party-based RPG) though. It was Vogel's first isometric game in the engine that would later run the Avernum series. But regardless of whether people overlooked it for some reason or another at the time of release, the game is still a hidden gem that's worth playing today, especially if you already have it as part of a bundle. I don't know why people are so dismissive of it since it's hardly a bad game and actually one of his strongest showings.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:53
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The strategy page off the official forums should give you some info. The recruits will be in a tavern or some such in one of the big towns, don't worry you won't miss them by accident. Celt recruit choices will already be orientated towards combat skills IIRC. I wouldn't specialize solely on ranged weapons, personally. Slings are nice because they are light and they have infinite ammo but they aren't so tremendous that you can rely on them as your sole method of dealing damage; they're more so that your druids have a ranged alternative when they're too drained off energy to shoot off a spell.
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Jan 4, 2014 03:37
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Jeff actually released all the old Exile games here for free. Standard compatibility issues for old, unsupported games apply, though. I would love it if he'd do some porting so they'd work on modern operating systems without VMing. Of course, he already did essentially that and much more when going from Exile to Avernum, but I still have a soft spot for plain Exile like many people here.
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Feb 23, 2014 02:48
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It's been a while, but I believe you can only have 5 max people in your party while the 6th slot is used by the occasional NPC during certain events and missions. The way it works is you start off with the four characters you make at the beginning. Later on in the game, you'll reach a town that has four more members (two for each faction), of which you can only recruit one. IIRC, the two Celtic recruits will be specced out as fighter types. They will come with stats and skill points already assigned, but after that you'll be able to control and level them up as normal just like your original four. You can also edit their appearance or even change their name in the character sheet if you wish. As far as party creation, I went with a single warrior and three druid initial party like Thuryl. Druids are pretty straight forward: start off specializing in one different spell school for each member but then pump up the other school since you'll need an equal amount of both to unlock the advanced spell circles. Most of your points will go into your druid abilities to unlock all the spells, so develop those when in doubt. Feel free to take a smattering of herb lore and tool use as well.
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Mar 16, 2014 17:18
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Don't you have to use the fyora canister in order to proceed past the beginning area? Using any canister at all is verboten by the Shaper Council, which is why I just go hog wild with them in the name of
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Mar 30, 2014 23:51
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Phenotype posted:I'm surprised to hear that about Battle Shaping -- the rogue thahds are one of the scariest enemies because they can still one-shot my PC, and now that I've bought the Create Thahd spell he's my heaviest hitter. I gained a few levels and cleared out the Infested Forest and Drypeak Mines, and my Artilas are definitely starting to pull their weight. The problem with melee units in the early games is that you need 5AP or whatever to make an attack. Jeff Vogel realized that it isn't really fun for a unit to spend his entire turn closing in with an enemy and then not being able to do anything else at the end of that turn, so it was changed in later games to allow an attack if you have any remaining action points left over. Battle shaping also got more versatile units, including ranged types, added in later games to help it out, but it's still the weakest choice IMHO. Fire shaping is probably the most versatile of the creation types because it's not just straight fire damage - you have acid, ice, and physical melee as well. Magic shaping gets amazing as soon as you get vlish (which are one of the strongest creations in some of the games) and have nice status effects to attacks. If you're playing a shaper, you could probably max out all the creation skills but I tend to focus only on healing, fire, and magic creation and forsake battle shaping so that I can get buffing magic.
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Apr 5, 2014 21:34
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Phenotype posted:Is there any better way to regen my essence when I reach a town? I've been in the habit of arriving in town with all my minions, absorbing them, then having to re-enter town to summon new ones. I tend to reassorb and make new creations whenever I increase my shaping skills or pop a creation canister because I'm typically able to increase those skills faster and make better units than if I kept around my same starting units and tried to level them up through combat experience. I also only put two points in their intelligence so I can control them, but that's it for stats. As a shaper, my army is basically disposable because I'm always able to make a more effective batch, but an agent or guardian with limited shaping skills might find it more cost effective to keep around their units longer. For gear, my main concern is encumbrance, which is a bigger factor in the early games because it counts equipment as well as stuff carried in your inventory for your maximum carry weight. My main character shaper isn't much of an active participant in battles outside of buffing and doesn't go out in the frontlines so I'm fine with giving him lighter stuff. There's also weapons like Symbiotic (or Living?) Knife that drains your own stats but correspondingly increases your creations, a trade off that works well for a shaper army.
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Apr 8, 2014 03:59
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Phenotype posted:I seriously hope there's no other items I should have been holding onto, because I sell everything I bother bringing to town. Set aside Shaper records and Shaper equipment in these games because there'll be specific NPCs who give you more cash for them plus quest rewards and quest experience.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:16
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UI-wise, older Avernum can be a bit long in the tooth because it has items listed in a single, scrolling column, whereas Escape has a separate inventory screen/paperdoll. Avernum also requires you to stock up on ammo for your bows and I believe food for resting (not sure if I'm remembering this part correctly). Escape from the Pit has the new adrenaline mechanic that allows your melee characters to do special attacks. Quests and dungeons have been greatly expanded as well. I'd personally go with A:EftP at this point.
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May 14, 2014 01:39
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Anything better than your stoneage or early bronze weapons felt like a big deal in Exile, highlighting how rare and important natural resources were in the caves. Getting a steel weapon was like a Thus Spake Zarathustra moment.
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May 22, 2014 02:27
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Xander77 posted:Also, is there a trick to stealing some items within view of a stationary NPC, or are they just there to taunt me? There's a locked room in the furniture makers house - most of the time opportunities to lockpick pay for themselves, but her husband just refuses to move around enough to let me steal their stuff. Can't you close doors in Avadon? I seem to recall shutting out an overzealously patrolling shopkeeper from his store that way, but it could have been another game. The best unintended steal mechanic was definitely in the early Geneforge games, where you can't steal directly with your Shaper but you can with your creations. The idea of a train of fyoras cleaning out a store from under the shopkeeper's nose makes me laugh. Second best was in Exile where you could push boxes of stuff across tiles. Petulantly kicking a crate of weapons out of a store to some discreet and unseen corner of the town so you could loot in peace was also funny, especially when you'd accidentally kick it into a river or something and lose it all.
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Jul 23, 2014 00:23
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Bring back obsessively bumping into every edge of the map to reveal hidden areas, Jeff.
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Jul 26, 2014 04:02
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 So in this preview image of the skill tree, it sort of looks like you no longer have to meet prerequisites to unlock higher skills (i.e. investing an equal amount of points in both lower tier skills in order to put the same amount of points in a higher tier skill). But there's still intersecting arrows between the skills, so it could mean you just need a minimum of 1 point in a lower skill now or that the character in this image is just a debug test case with no bearing on final skill mechanic. Sure hoping it's the former, though.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:16
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Does anyone remember playing a more basic version of Exile than the one found on the website? I think it was before the better sprites and it let you do some crazy things like buy a replica version of Demonslayer that was pretty good early on IIRC.
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Nov 15, 2014 02:22
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I miss those inset intros that told their own little stories on the title screen.
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Nov 15, 2014 05:31
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MagusofStars posted:Also, if you want to talk about questionable decisions in the remakes, the more I play them, the more I think the whole Diablo 2-esque skill point system is a notable step back. I get that Jeff wanted to try something different and prevent players from screwing themselves with terrible skill choices, but it achieves these goals by removing a lot of the versatility and choices. It also doesn't help that the trait choices are kinda uninspiring - they're effective, but the decisions don't really seem like that meaningful of a choice. This is definitely my biggest pet peeve as well. Every time I level up in the new games I feel like I'm forced into pumping unimportant or useless skills and abilities in order to gain the ones I actually want to use. If it's in the name of balancing, I agree that there should be a better way of doing this rather than making the player feel like he's wasting points or limiting his choices. I think it detracts from Avadon and I hate that it's being used in the new Avernums. Anyone who's already bought the new Crystal Souls know if it's still the same skill system?
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Jan 20, 2015 04:28
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Doctor Goat posted:I tried to get Jeff Vogel to give me dumps of the Exile stuff so I could try my hand at making a new Exile engine, but no dice. That's a real shame. Did he give you any specific reason when he turned you down?
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Jan 24, 2015 04:11
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One thing I'll always miss from Exile is making a dedicated Nephilim archer. Being able to attack twice a turn was really useful. I kinda miss the ammo system, too. Not having to procure ammo is arguably more streamlined now but it also loses the joy of finding a cache of iron arrows and knowing you're ready to wreck some poo poo.
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Jan 24, 2015 22:30
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GOG's Summer Sale has Crystal Souls for 10 bucks for anyone that's been waiting
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Jun 4, 2015 17:51
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Heavy neutrino posted:Also, doesn't it seem like some of the traits are way too good to pass up? Oh gee, I have the choice between a couple more skill points from more level ups, or a massive amount of extra resistances and free skills worth much more than the extra skill points from extra levels. I did leave one character without traits to act as a tool use/nature lore/first aid support bot, but otherwise it seems like a raw deal. It depends on how thoroughly you play and well you grind. A character without traits and therefore no XP penalty doesn't just get only skill points with every level up but also more health, damage, and stats (which in turn increases certain resistances). At higher levels you eventually stop gaining skill points but you'll keep getting the extra attack and health die. So plain characters can become very powerful compared to traited characters IF you happen to play long enough to get enough levels over them. However, some traits are still very good and you won't miss out much for their beneficial trade off. I wouldn't get the ones that increase resistances because those can be buffed through equipment, spells, and potions. But I would really consider the special mage, priest, and warrior traits that boosts those respective character types because some of those innate bonuses can't be easily gained in the game.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:37
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sitchelin posted:I want a Nethergate sequel. I would love to play one set in Judea where you use like the power of Kabbalah to kick out the Romans.
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Jan 5, 2016 08:55
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Jeff Vogel did a Reddit Ask Me Anything. Of note for me is that he's developing a new series and it's going to abandon the isometric view for Exile's older style perspective.
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Sep 16, 2016 01:57
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Has he confirmed he’s doing the Geneforge remakes?
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Feb 6, 2018 23:24
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While I love his games as-is, I'm looking forward to the prospect of new art assets. His current standbys are serviceable but a tad long in the tooth now.
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May 24, 2018 16:40
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RickVoid posted:The tutorial could be the Imperial Expeditionary Force (that conveniently all died horribly, leaving powerful artifacts behind)! I always loved the game lore behind magical artifacts like the Orb of Thralni or Demonslayer after it's been reconstructed in the first game. Because Avernum is such a small, plucky nation with limited resources, when they get high level phat loot like that, it becomes a crucial component to national security itself, entrusted only to those with the right clearance. One of the later Avernum games had Demonslayer issued to some general or other high ranking military badass to gently caress up some demons, and when he fails, it's up to you to recover the sword from his body and finish the job as Avernum's next highest ranking badass. On paper, it's merely a good sword with a damage bonus against particular enemy type, but I still love the build up and story behind it.
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May 24, 2018 19:45
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You might enjoy Thea: The Awakening which has many components of what you are describing, TMA. Setting is more of a twilight of the gods scenario with you as a revived god trying to guide your village of followers in a world beset by danger.
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May 24, 2018 20:20
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I haven't installed my copy yet, how does the balance between magic, martial weapons, and ranged seem to fare?
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Sep 12, 2019 19:17
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Geneforge 1 Mutagen funded at $85,000.00, meaning we get a new zone and a new creation.
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Mar 16, 2020 04:24
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If you put just a square of unclearable fog of war on your map, eight year old me will spend eternity bumping into every adjacent wall in search of a hidden entrance.
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May 22, 2020 00:54
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Snort icy crystals
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Jun 29, 2020 17:19
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/geneforge1/geneforge-1-mutagen/posts/2935741 It's been kind of weird seeing higher fidelity/more artistic renderings of battle alphas, serviles, and the other creations.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:55
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Cardiovorax posted:I'm still somewhat sceptical because I largely just don't like where Vogel has been taking the character building mechanics of his games ever since Avadon, but the screenshots make it look like it's hewing far more closely to the original than is typical for his remakes, so I might pick that up after all. I particularly dislike the skill trees and prerequisites introduced in his newer games. Maybe it's an attempt to introduce balance, but it just feels like it limits build ideas and makes character creation pretty flat. Like, maybe I don't want to have to increase my to-hit skills, but for some reason it's the baseline skill needed for tanking stuff. Avadon is the worst in this regard and playing tinkermage felt like half the time I was wasting points on stuff I didn't not want at all in order to get to the good stuff which is just terrible character creation.
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Nov 29, 2020 06:29
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Sway Grunt posted:I hate seeing 10 slots for an "Add a Character" tier, but luckily it's somehow still at 0. Hopefully if someone bites Jeff is ruthless about the contributions. I'm going to buy all 10 slots and add a vlish for every shade of the rainbow into the game and you can't stop me.
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Feb 8, 2023 21:07
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