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MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."


Lemon Curdistan posted:

While I acknowledge that "having lovely and confusing rules that fail to accomplish what they set out to do" is indeed a D&D genre convention, I feel it's a D&D genre convention that DW can do without.

Then why did you include them into the Shaman on purpose. Its also the reason why I hate the Artificer multiclass moves too. They are just needless restrictions on genre conventions in a game where you would want to actually multiclass into multiple classes.

MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2013 around 23:25

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TalonDemonKing
May 4, 2011



So this is going to sound really, really, really stupid, but I'm looking through the free PDF and I keep seeing names and looks for classes -- But I can't figure out if they're suggestions or optional, or do they really matter. If I say 'gently caress it, I'm naming my fighter 'The Swedish Chef'', There isn't anything that's going to come back and bite me in the rear end, is there?

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.


They're suggestions, absolutely. You can play a wizard with buzzcut hair and a swole body, or an archer with Hungry Eyes*.


*Although they'd get Detect: Magic (between you and I).

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh


TalonDemonKing posted:

So this is going to sound really, really, really stupid, but I'm looking through the free PDF and I keep seeing names and looks for classes -- But I can't figure out if they're suggestions or optional, or do they really matter. If I say 'gently caress it, I'm naming my fighter 'The Swedish Chef'', There isn't anything that's going to come back and bite me in the rear end, is there?

They're suggestions. Nothing in the rules is going to crash if you call yourself Jerry and say you're a Kobold Myrimidon. The classes exist to give you an idea of the specialized stuff you can do, but if you wanted you could slap a bunch of different classes together and call it a class, or even make your own class up. Problems might occur with being stronger than the base classes (i.e. the baseline the book was written on) and the point of being specialized is that you can do your own cool thing while your buddies have their own different cool things to do.

ritorix
Jul 22, 2007

Vancian Roulette


PAXEast sold out. Amazon pre-orders are sold out. Sounds like they are doing well with DW book sales.

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

MY PAPER SOLDIERS
FORM A WALL
FIVE PACES THICK AND
TWICE AS TALL


Yeah, I bought the penultimate copy at PAX East. Also got to play a demogame of it finally, which was a ton of fun.

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

Plaster Town Cop

TalonDemonKing posted:

So this is going to sound really, really, really stupid, but I'm looking through the free PDF and I keep seeing names and looks for classes -- But I can't figure out if they're suggestions or optional, or do they really matter. If I say 'gently caress it, I'm naming my fighter 'The Swedish Chef'', There isn't anything that's going to come back and bite me in the rear end, is there?

Nah, it's mostly just a means of getting you to think about your character - if you choose none of the above, you've still made a choice. You might not think that much on it at the time, but if you look at the lists and go "Wait, these all suck, my fighter is obviously much (swoler/cooler/wimpier/green) than this," you've started creating a character apart from your list of moves and stats.

Basically, they're there to make you think and to give you something to go on if you're totally tapped out for ideas.

Edit: The thing that will trip up some new players and might bite you in the rear end is keywords. Take the fighter's signature weapon. Instead of having a score of situational pluses or minuses to differentiate a huge battleaxe from a delicate rapier, you've got keywords.

Keywords do exactly what you think when you read them: they inform the fiction of the game. The guy with the huge, messy battleaxe could totally cut someone's head off in a single stroke, but he's not going to be able to spear a fly off someone's collar without hurting them, as the guy with the precise rapier could. Or at least not without a really good Defy Danger roll.

The only time keywords might be problematic is if you let someone go overboard with them. If your fighty guy is rolling with a Huge Deadly Rusty Maiming Paralyzing Balanced Buster Sword, or you let the wizard have a spell with the keyword Antimatter or something, that might make for some tricky situations. That kind of thing will be pretty obvious, though, so as long as nobody in your group is going to be a super rules lawyer, you probably won't have any issues.

grassy gnoll fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 00:32

rantmo
Jul 30, 2003

No one is too ever too small to love the people like El Vago does.


Golden Bee posted:

They're suggestions, absolutely. You can play a wizard with buzzcut hair and a swole body, or an archer with Hungry Eyes*.


*Although they'd get Detect: Magic (between you and I).

Well now I know what's going to be stuck in my head all day tomorrow.

PublicOpinion
Oct 20, 2010

Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...


Regular DM was poisoned, so I ran a one-shot. From an initial seed of ruins in the woods with clockwork artifacts, we went with a surface ruin containing a paranoid and hostile goat-druid, and beneath that were the ruins of a gnomish robot factory. They fought a couple robots with mostly minor wounds, and then they came to the giant robot at the root of the disaster.

They threw the thief onto its face, where he proceeded to cling on for dear life while slowly stabbing out its six eyes. The giant robot then smashed the gladiator into a wall, almost killing him, but the gladiator came back swinging: when the giant 'bot withdrew its arm, the gladiator was clinging onto it, and he stabbed his way up to the elbow where he severed the giant robot's arm.

While that was going on, the bard found the factory's bridge crane. She grasped its function immediately, and swung the crane's claw over and grabbed the giant robot's back. The gladiator then grabbed onto the giant robot's foot and dragged the opposite direction, pushing himself beyond his limits and taking damage in the process. This tore the giant robot in half, after which the gladiator claimed its robo-heart for himself.

gnome7
Oct 21, 2010

Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??


I have spent literally all day editing playbooks, between The Psion and The Shaman for Lemon and now also The Noble. I have entirely reworked how the Assistant move works, and I think it is entirely for the better. Specifically, The Assistant gets a third page dedicated to it - its own personal half-playbook.

Syka
Mar 24, 2007
sum n00b or wut?

Hey gnome, I bought The Cultist from DTRPG, but The True Friend wasn't included in the download despite being listed as a bonus in the description. I realize there's a link to it in this thread, but non-goons are a bit out of luck on that one.

TheLawinator
Apr 12, 2012

Competence on the battlefield is a myth. The side which screws up next to last wins, it's as simple as that.

Well, guess who forgot to cancel his preorder after getting a copy at pax east this weekend? This guy. I guess I'm going to have 2 copies now, shouldn't be too hard to offload on a buddy.

KillerQueen
Jul 13, 2010

Cutest God-damned thing in Hell.


Guess who really like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure? This guy.

The Ripple Man

When you are instructed by a warrior from a strange land on how to fight the darkness
, the next time you level up you may take this advanced move:

Ripple Energy
Your very touch is a poison to those who fear the sun, and anathema to those who prey on the weak! When you Hack and Slash without a weapon and deal damage to an undead foe, a creature of the night, or something which does not call this world itís home, your strikes shine with the light of the sun! Roll two damage dice instead of one and add the results together.

From then on, when you level up you may choose from the following moves:

The True Power of the Ripple
So much power courses through your body that you barely feel pain anymore, and this has many strange effects:
-Your body will not fail you when you need it the most. Add CON or STR to your Last Breath rolls, whichever is higher
-You can dislocate your joints to extend your reach, and attack without fear of harming yourself. Add the reach, messy, and forceful tags to your unarmed attacks

OVERDRIVE
You have mastered the technique of shaping your life-force into elemental power. Your unarmed attacks gain the elemental (fire, ice, or electric) tag. In addition, you may Hack and Slash any enemy that is touching the same object or surface as you are.

He was Just a Kid
When a monster kills a bystander in your presence, whatever they are and whoever their victim was in life, theyíve just made a powerful enemy. You take +2 ongoing on all rolls against the offender, but are at a -1 to all rolls when trying to fight anyone else. This persists until one or both of you die.

KillerQueen fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 09:32

gnome7
Oct 21, 2010

Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??


KillerQueen, that is pretty excellent. I just caught up on the latest episodes of that just a couple hours ago, JJBA is so good. I think the attack that adds Near to your melee attack should probably add Reach instead, though. Near is generally a ranged attack tag.

Syka posted:

Hey gnome, I bought The Cultist from DTRPG, but The True Friend wasn't included in the download despite being listed as a bonus in the description. I realize there's a link to it in this thread, but non-goons are a bit out of luck on that one.

Oh woops! Thanks for the heads up, fixing that ASAP.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


MadScientistWorking posted:

Then why did you include them into the Shaman on purpose. Its also the reason why I hate the Artificer multiclass moves too. They are just needless restrictions on genre conventions in a game where you would want to actually multiclass into multiple classes.

Because the alternate version of Level Up I proposed isn't RAW.

The Shaman has to work with the rules that most people are using, and that happens to be the actual RAW core book. If I could somehow get Sage and Adam to include my variant in the official rules I'd jump at the chance to add two cool moves instead of the MC moves I have, but that hasn't happened. Instead, the MC moves are part of the class, but are set up like that alternate Level Up (choose a move at your level from class X or Y, or any other class at your level -1).

UrbanLabyrinth posted:

Your version (as written) also doesn't let them take moves from their own playbook.

Their own class is obviously part of their class' favoured playlists.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 08:01

KillerQueen
Jul 13, 2010

Cutest God-damned thing in Hell.


gnome7 posted:

KillerQueen, that is pretty excellent. I just caught up on the latest episodes of that just a couple hours ago, JJBA is so good. I think the attack that adds Near to your melee attack should probably add Reach instead, though. Near is generally a ranged attack tag.



I somehow forgot reach was a tag! Weird. Fixed it up good.

ED: gently caress it have another


The Stone-Masked Vampire

When you don the stone mask and paint it with the blood of those you hate, you can take the following advanced move when you level up.

I Will Transcend Humanity
You are immortal, to an extent at least. You do not age, and you no longer possess the Last Breath move. Instead, when you lose all your HP you disappear from the battle - you donít teleport or anything, but something happens to separate you from the action for a time. You cannot perform any action that doesnít get you closer to a source of blood.
However, there are limits: if you lose all your HP due to fire or holy magic, or if your body is exposed to the light of the sun for more than a moment, you die.

From then on, when you level up you may choose from the following moves:

Bloodbuzz
You donít need blood to survive, but it is delicious beyond imagining. When you feed the blood of a person, gain +1 blood. You have no limit on how much blood you can carry, but can only suss out 1 blood per body. You can spend blood 1 for 1 to do the following:
-Regenerate: Replace the blood in your veins with the blood in your belly! Heal 5 HP at any point. This can be used while at 0 HP to get back up without needing to hunt for more blood.
-Space Ripper Stingy Eyes: Volley while unarmed using pressurized blood! Has the tags near, armor penetrating, messy. If youíre required to spend additional ammo, spend additional blood instead.
-Cold as Ice: Force your blood to evaporate, sucking in all nearby thermal energy! When in physical contact with someone or something, they are frozen in place! This effect persists until you break contact or unless a heat source is somehow introduced.

Weird Science
Your body has been manipulated by the Stone Mask, but so has your mind. You must share your power! When you are alone with someone who is willing or incapacitated, you may do one of the following:
-Create A Zombie: By slicing off a bit of your own flesh and implanting it in your subject, they fall under your control. You automatically succeed on any Parley attempts with them as if you had rolled a 10+, and you can offer dead bodies as leverage.
-Create Hybrid: you know how bodies work. All bodies. By taking bits from one, combining them with another, and adding a bit of your own blood, you can create half-animal hybrids. Whoever is your subject gains 1 move appropriate to the animal you attached to them: for example, combining a bird with a human might allow them to fly, or combining a dwarf with a shark might be really loving cool give them several rows of sharp teeth.
-Create A Stone Mask Vampire: Requires the Stone Mask. Allows a PC to enter the compendium class, allows an NPC to become a terrifying monster. And vice-versa.

Yare Yare Daze
When you take a moment to pose and pontificate on the hopeless nature of your enemyís struggle
, roll +nothing. On a hit, you will receive a +2 forward to defy danger. On a 10+, they will be completely paralyzed with fear, and your next move automatically succeeds as if you had rolled 10+

KillerQueen fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 09:32

gnome7
Oct 21, 2010

Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??


gnome7 posted:

Mikan and I are co-authoring a third party dungeon world book! The original Dungeon World is a bit too locked into generic fantasy, so we decided to write a book all about making Dungeon World a bit more fantastic in how it treats fantasy. I've posted one preview in this thread already, and Mikan posted a preview on his G+ account. I'll just compile those previews here for people to look at:

The Captain
The Lantern
Mikan's setting post
Some merfolk I drew for Inverse World, Merfolk being the predominate race of the setting.

Everyone remember this? Me too. Have another preview!

This week's preview is for The Survivor, another core class that fills a niche that isn't all that present in existing playbooks. The Survivor has suffered through a life-altering cataclysm, and it has changed them permanently as a result. While super-tough characters are already very possible in DW (such as the Gladiator, Barbarian, or Paladin), The Survivor gives you incredible toughness in their core moves, with a greater focus on surviving than conquering. Those other options might be better at killing things, but you don't need to kill to be a hero. You just need to survive.

KillerQueen
Jul 13, 2010

Cutest God-damned thing in Hell.


gnome7 posted:

Everyone remember this? Me too. Have another preview!

This week's preview is for The Survivor, another core class that fills a niche that isn't all that present in existing playbooks. The Survivor has suffered through a life-altering cataclysm, and it has changed them permanently as a result. While super-tough characters are already very possible in DW (such as the Gladiator, Barbarian, or Paladin), The Survivor gives you incredible toughness in their core moves, with a greater focus on surviving than conquering. Those other options might be better at killing things, but you don't need to kill to be a hero. You just need to survive.

I want it. I want it bad.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


gnome7 posted:

Everyone remember this? Me too. Have another preview!

This week's preview is for The Survivor, another core class that fills a niche that isn't all that present in existing playbooks. The Survivor has suffered through a life-altering cataclysm, and it has changed them permanently as a result. While super-tough characters are already very possible in DW (such as the Gladiator, Barbarian, or Paladin), The Survivor gives you incredible toughness in their core moves, with a greater focus on surviving than conquering. Those other options might be better at killing things, but you don't need to kill to be a hero. You just need to survive.

So when is it actually out?

gnome7
Oct 21, 2010

Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??


Lemon Curdistan posted:

So when is it actually out?

I don't think we have an ETA just yet. I have about 40 more advance moves to write/fabricate, and we want a couple compendium classes, monsters, and magic items, and then there's a ton of setting information to actually write about, and we also need to secure art for it, and then format the whole thing, and there's probably a bunch of other technical stuff I don't know about yet since we haven't gotten there. We're planning on publishing this as an actual, for print book, you see.

So at the current rate of doing things, April maybe? Being my first major project like this I have no idea what a realistic timeframe is, but I am doing what I can to keep on top of my end of the deal.

ritorix
Jul 22, 2007

Vancian Roulette


Has anyone done psionic combat in dungeon world? Like a freeform mental assault where you imagine your a dragon and breath fire, then the other guy imagines he turns into a stone wall to avoid the fire breath, etc. That's how mental combat was portrayed in Dark Sun novels but the actual D&D system could never hope to match it. But it should work fine in DW.

Something like...

When you make a mental assault on another mind, use Hack And Slash with +INT.
When you engage in mental combat, your WIS bonus is your mental Armor.
Damage in mental combat is real, be careful!
Other basic moves remain the same; Defy Danger uses your brain's muscle memory if you mentally dodge a mental attack.

Maybe get the Shapeshifter move from Druid as a mental-only thing with +INT. Or just literally say 'you can do anything you can imagine, and may use any class move in mental combat'. But I would want to keep it simple.

TombsGrave
Feb 15, 2008



I've been pondering straight-up writing a DW version of the Psionics Handbook. Well, not literally, but just doin' a big ol' book about psychic powers and all the things tied into 'em. The Psion would be in, of course, all playtested and everything, and I've been thinking of doing the Psychic Warrior too, and some other psychic classes if I could ponder a sufficiently interesting hook and theme for them. Psychic combat, beasts of the id, potent mental artifacts, all that good stuff.

You know, this is sounding more and more like a good idea. I think I just got myself a little project to do.

MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."


Lemon Curdistan posted:

Because the alternate version of Level Up I proposed isn't RAW.

No you kind of missed my point. The concept of a favored class/thematically appropriate is an incredibly annoying D&Dism that does not belong in this game. The Shaman is a particularly egregious example because Mage and Wizard would make just as much sense as the Druid or Ranger namely because of how varied the arctheypte actually is. You are complaining about how unfairly restricting the game actually is but in the process of designing your class you kind of ramrodded in an extremely narrow view of the archtype with that stupid multiclass move.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


MadScientistWorking posted:

No you kind of missed my point. The concept of a favored class/thematically appropriate is an incredibly annoying D&Dism that does not belong in this game.

No, it's not. The concept of some class being inherently closer to other classes is not a D&Dism, especially not when used to drive a fictional identity. Why does the Shaman have the Ranger and Druid as "favoured classes?" Because they're all "primal" archetypes that are close to nature; it makes sense in terms of the fiction for any given Shaman to have a predilection for having an animal companion or being able to turn into a bear, and it also makes sense mechanically because of the overlap between these classes (e.g. the Druid's talking-to-things moves).

What is unfairly restrictive is just plain going "no, you can't be a Shaman who takes Cast a Spell."

MadScientistWorking posted:

The Shaman is a particularly egregious example because Mage and Wizard would make just as much sense as the Druid or Ranger namely because of how varied the arctheypte actually is.

Which is exactly why the Shaman's multiclass move allows you to multiclass to any class you want, but gives you a bonus (in the form of not taking the move as if you were a level lower) to MC to specific classes.

MadScientistWorking posted:

You are complaining about how unfairly restricting the game actually is but in the process of designing your class you kind of ramrodded in an extremely narrow view of the archtype with that stupid multiclass move.

Have you actually read the v2 Shaman's multiclass moves?

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 15:04

MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."


Lemon Curdistan posted:

No, it's not. The concept of some class being inherently closer to other classes is not a D&Dism, especially not when used to drive a fictional identity. Why does the Shaman have the Ranger and Druid as "favoured classes?" Because they're all "primal" archetypes that are close to nature; it makes sense in terms of the fiction for any given Shaman to have a predilection for having an animal companion or being able to turn into a bear, and it also makes sense mechanically because of the overlap between these classes (e.g. the Druid's talking-to-things moves).
Just out of curiousity have you ever played Legend of the Five Rings?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

jonthegm
Nov 15, 2005

Spicy!

Just a note for the OP, I've updated my wight a little and posted it on the codex. I felt the 1d4+2 was a little too scary, so I upped the hit points and made it a straight 6 for a little more "swinginess" in the wight's damage.

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh


For people who have had more experience with Dungeon World combats, how often do you find yourself punching the same thing before it goes down? I'm trying to come up with a good way to handle combo attacks by giving a bonus if you keep hitting the same enemy (which would make the class more likely to focus on the big guys than the small fries) that you can choose to end for a finisher, but the more I think about it the less I'm sure this would work all that well. I don't have all that much experience with big combats though, so maybe it's less of an issue than I expect?

PublicOpinion
Oct 20, 2010

Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...


If there's somebody throwing big damage, things die really fast if the pcs can get their hits in without interruption. The only way I've found to make things survive for any length is to make sure there's several hoops to jump through in between each damage roll. Like, giving something every hp boosting template makes you wind up with something like 30, and you're basically throwing down with turbo cthulhu. Your normal elite mook will probably have 15 hp and 3 armor, which gets chewed through in three or four attacks or so unless people pooch their rolls. Heck, half the combats I run don't even end with enemy hp hitting zero; guys keep getting pushed into lava or disenchanted or torn in half, which I figure triggers death regardless.

Kubert
Aug 9, 2010


In my DW campaign, enemies rarely survive more than two to three successful attacks. This is true for the unique and more powerful enemies, although they might survive one or two more hits than something else. The real challenge to taking them down isn't a large health pool, rather they use the terrain to their advantage, have access to deadly weapons and abilities, and all sorts of things that makes it difficult to even land a successful attack.

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?


gnome7 posted:

I have spent literally all day editing playbooks, between The Psion and The Shaman for Lemon and now also The Noble. I have entirely reworked how the Assistant move works, and I think it is entirely for the better. Specifically, The Assistant gets a third page dedicated to it - its own personal half-playbook.

Just thought I'd ask if it's intentional that the Loyal Assistant has really low HP. As it currently stands, with bad luck they can just get one shot really easily. In the pbp I'm playing a Noble in, my Thief-based Assistant took 1d6 damage before the change and now he's half dead. Even if he was at full health, a single goblin with a lucky damage roll could just kill him.

What I'm saying is, I don't want to go through one Assistant after the other but I feel like if I put my Assistant in a dangerous situation I'm going to be forced to.

I do like the rest of the Assistant changes, though.

Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 19:49

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.


One thing that's different about Dungeon World is the lack of enemy's turn. Your enemies NEED to use dangerous tactics - poison, dogpiling, hostage taking - or they're a snack. Especially if your players can freeze or burn them.

Oo Koo
Nov 19, 2012


Lemon Curdistan posted:

No, it's not. The concept of some class being inherently closer to other classes is not a D&Dism, especially not when used to drive a fictional identity. Why does the Shaman have the Ranger and Druid as "favoured classes?" Because they're all "primal" archetypes that are close to nature; it makes sense in terms of the fiction for any given Shaman to have a predilection for having an animal companion or being able to turn into a bear, and it also makes sense mechanically because of the overlap between these classes (e.g. the Druid's talking-to-things moves).

Why do you see shaman as just a "primal" archetype? It has the same root in the real world wise-men and spiritual leaders as the cleric and the wizard. They're all about using their knowledge of hidden things and wisdom of the ancients to solve problems and guide others. The only differences they have are whether the lore is passed down with oral tradition or writings and what magic powers they have and those are flexible aspects and rife for reskinning and thematic remixing.

For example, you could just as easily have a civilized shaman of a decadent empire, who communes with their dead predecessors and uses obscure sorcery and necromancy to work their magic. That would have much more in common with a wizard or a cleric than druid or a ranger.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


Okasvi posted:

Why do you see shaman as just a "primal" archetype?

Okay, that part probably has to do with D&D a bit.

More seriously: because the Shaman concept I had in mind when I wrote the class is lifted from fantasy sources where the shaman is:

1) predominantly from tribal cultures that spurn urban environments;
2) part medicine man (of the natural, plant medicine type);
3) has a strong connection to animals (able to shapeshift/summon animals).

You're completely right that you can have civilised shamans and warrior shamans and sneaky shamans and shamans who also worship a deity and every other kind of shaman you want, hence the MC moves being rewritten.

MadScientistWorking posted:

Just out of curiousity have you ever played Legend of the Five Rings?

No, but I'm not entirely sure what L5R has to do with anything?

gnome7
Oct 21, 2010

Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??


gnome7 posted:

Everyone remember this? Me too. Have another preview!

This week's preview is for The Survivor, another core class that fills a niche that isn't all that present in existing playbooks. The Survivor has suffered through a life-altering cataclysm, and it has changed them permanently as a result. While super-tough characters are already very possible in DW (such as the Gladiator, Barbarian, or Paladin), The Survivor gives you incredible toughness in their core moves, with a greater focus on surviving than conquering. Those other options might be better at killing things, but you don't need to kill to be a hero. You just need to survive.

I am eternally indecisive forever and I have updated the Survivor preview. Specifically, the Hardened move has been replaced with something a lot more interesting, and I am much happier with this set of starting moves than I was a day ago.


Lurks With Wolves posted:

Just thought I'd ask if it's intentional that the Loyal Assistant has really low HP. As it currently stands, with bad luck they can just get one shot really easily. In the pbp I'm playing a Noble in, my Thief-based Assistant took 1d6 damage before the change and now he's half dead. Even if he was at full health, a single goblin with a lucky damage roll could just kill him.

What I'm saying is, I don't want to go through one Assistant after the other but I feel like if I put my Assistant in a dangerous situation I'm going to be forced to.

I do like the rest of the Assistant changes, though.

It is intentional, yes. I've had a lot of questions about how Assistant HP should work, and after seeing it done both ways (just base HP, or base + the Noble's Constitution), I think I like the base HP method better. The Assistant is exactly that - an assistant. It is worth mentioning he can still take Last Breath moves like other players, although I realize that is small solace. In any case, I have a player running a Noble right now, and her Assistant is an Initiate, a very front-line class, so I'll get to check personally if that is too low. It might get changed later, but it was a deliberate decision to change to the current format.

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh


Yeah, I figured it was the case that fights against single targets tend to blow up pretty quickly. The class I'm trying to make it for doesn't have crazy Fighter damage, but even then a party would probably take an enemy down too fast for them to really shine. I really want to find a way to make it work, but it's harder than it looks.


As for favored classes, I don't like the idea of them both because they're incapable of encompassing every possible class that would fit (unless the author really keeps up with every bit of content people generate, i.e. an impossible task), but also because it's really easy to interpret classes as anything you'd want them to be. A while ago I came up with the idea of a Ranger who uses hexes and curses instead of a bow and arrows and controls undead as their companion. This NecroRanger would totally favor Wizard and Mage and stuff, but a typical Ranger that people think of wouldn't.

Unless you gave people the choice of taking a certain number of favored classes (through a set number of slots?) it just ends up kind of dumb. The ability for some of the core classes to borrow from only certain other classes all make sense just based on what the moves the other class(es) have do, where this idea of a 'primal' Shaman kind of misses that and just focuses on how the author sees the class' fluff. I'd be just as likely to make a Shaman whose spirits are actually just the electricity in machines, being able to command the 'spirits' of machinery and basically be a technomancer. It works perfectly with the class's mechanics, but that's not 'primal' in the slightest.

As far as I see it, I think advanced moves that let you borrow from specific (core) classes should exist if the moves those characters have compliment the moves of the class at hand. The reason you're not just flat out giving them Multiclass Dabbler is because you think the moves from that class fit really well and make a kind of secondary specialization for the class. Multiclass Dabbler pretty much just has the level restriction to make you worse at spells anyways, the -1 level restriction doesn't do much to stop you from taking other moves because very few moves reference your level, so if you're not digging into spell lists all it does is make you be level 3 or 7 instead of 2 or 6.

sentrygun fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 20:24

Benly
Aug 2, 2011

20% of the time, it works every time.


gnome7 posted:

I have spent literally all day editing playbooks, between The Psion and The Shaman for Lemon and now also The Noble. I have entirely reworked how the Assistant move works, and I think it is entirely for the better. Specifically, The Assistant gets a third page dedicated to it - its own personal half-playbook.

The first several times I read Adventuring Stipend I was confused - the way it's worded made me think that the downtime trigger reset your wealth to 2 instead of adding 2. That should maybe be clarified.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.


Another rescue from the old thread.

I think this could use some help. I like the flavor, I think it's a good class, but I'm not remotely sure if it's balanced or not. Ideas?

Beguiler posted:

THE BEGUILER
a Dungeon World class

Damage Die: d6
Hit Points: 6+CON

--Starting Moves--
Look Into My Eyes - When you use enchantment to ensnare the mind of an enemy, roll +CHA.
10+ - You make a command of three words or less, and your opponent follows it as best as he can. He will not harm himself directly.
7-9 - As 10+, but your command is a single word.

Beguiler's Cloak - When you weave an illusion to conceal your identity, roll +CHA.
10+ - Your disguise and poise is flawless and will not be noticed until it's too late.
7-9 - Something seems off about your disguise. While it will stand up to casual observation, it will fall apart under scrutiny.

Thoughtsend - You may communicate wordlessly and securely via telepathy with anyone you have a Bond with.

Daggers Behind Smiles - When you meet people who have no reason to believe you might betray them, they find you trustworthy and charming.

-- Level 2-5 Advanced Moves--

Man of Mystery
You may choose a move from the Thief, Bard, or Noble classes.

Trustworthy
You may roll +Cha instead of +Bond with anyone you have a Bond with.

Memory Adjustment
Instead of making a command with Look Into My Eyes, you may force them to forget a recent memory. Describe what they actually remember instead.

Regal Bearing
Your hirelings' trust is eerily implicit. Their loyalty is +1 and you may substitute "make me pleased" for their Cost.

Hypnotic Decree
You may add an additional word to your commands with Look Into My Eyes, for a total of 4 on 10+ and 2 on 7-9.

Gaslight
You may use Thoughtsend on anyone in your field of vision. When you use Thoughtsend to disrupt an enemy's actions, roll +CHA.
10+ - Your enemy is deeply shaken as you prey upon his innermost insecurities. You and your allies take +1 Ongoing against them.
7-9 - Your enemy is unnerved, but still capable of defending himself. You or your allies take +1 Forward against them.

Sift Through Secrets
When you read the mind of someone who trusts you in order to find their secrets, roll +CHA.
10+ - The secrets you uncover are deeply hidden, perhaps even forgotten by the person who holds them.
7-9 - The secrets you uncover are useful, but letting on that you know them will break their trust in you.
6- - The secrets you uncover are useless, petty, or boring at best.

Cloak of Invisibility
When you use Beguiler's Cloak, you may instead use your magic to render yourself completely incapable of being seen or heard. When you take violent action, you are revealed.

Charm Person
When you weave enchantment to force someone who trusts you into becoming more pliable and helpful, roll +CHA.
10+ - They trust you implicitly, and will treat you as an old friend. They suspect nothing.
7-9 - Your magic holds, but only temporarily. You must work fast to get what you need from them or they will become suspect.


--Level 6-10 Advanced Moves--

How Clumsy Of You
When you use Look Into My Eyes, you may cause your enemy to ignore self preservation and/or harm himself directly. If he would do damage directly to himself, roll your damage die.

International Man of Mystery
You may choose a move from the Thief, Bard, or Noble classes.

Cloak of Mists (Requires Cloak of Invisibility)
When you use Beguilers Cloak to turn yourself invisible, you cannot be touched, and you may pass through walls. When you take violent action, you are revealed.

Dominate Monster (Requires Charm Person)
When you roll 12+ on Look Into My Eyes, you may make your target a thrall. Their loyalty is 1, and your command becomes their Cost. You may only have one thrall at a given time, and if you use Dominate Monster while you already have a thrall, your previous thrall is released from your clutches.

Iron Hypnotic Decree (Requires Hypnotic Decree)
You may add an additional word to your commands with Look Into My Eyes, for a total of 5 on 10+ and 3 on 7-9.

Tabula Rasa (Requires Mind Sculpting and Sift Through Secrets)
When you roll 12+ on Look Into My Eyes, you may instead rewrite your targetís memories entirely.

--Alignments--
Neutral - Solve a problem by forcing your will on another.
Evil - Take advantage of someone weaker than yourself for your personal gain or amusement.

--Racial Moves--
Elf - Your elven eyes need only starlight to see perfectly in darkness.
Human - When people are charmed by or trust you, they will overlook minor discrepancies in your behavior.
Changeling - The changes you make with Beguilers Cloak are physical and real, you take +1 to Beguilers Cloak rolls.

--Gear--
You carry a dagger (hand, 1 weight, precise), and dungeon rations.
Choose two:
[] Black leather armor (Armor 1)
[] Adventuring gear and dungeon rations.
[] Impressive silk robes, and a snake staff with jeweled eyes (close, 1 weight, reach)
[] An inassuming blank sheet of paper that says exactly what you want it to say, when you want it to say it.

Lurks With Wolves
Jan 14, 2013

At least I don't dance with them, right?


gnome7 posted:

It is intentional, yes. I've had a lot of questions about how Assistant HP should work, and after seeing it done both ways (just base HP, or base + the Noble's Constitution), I think I like the base HP method better. The Assistant is exactly that - an assistant. It is worth mentioning he can still take Last Breath moves like other players, although I realize that is small solace. In any case, I have a player running a Noble right now, and her Assistant is an Initiate, a very front-line class, so I'll get to check personally if that is too low. It might get changed later, but it was a deliberate decision to change to the current format.

Oh, I get why you lowered their HP. Before the change my Assistant had more HP than the Noble. It's just that every move that involves you rolling will put you in a bad spot on a 6- and in what will probably become a bad spot if you let it on a 7-9. If you're doing something in a situation that it's important enough to roll for, you're putting yourself at risk. And six HP can disappear like that.

Dungeons are dangerous places, and they're no place for someone who both can't take a hit and is at high risk of taking damage just because of how moves work.

Oo Koo
Nov 19, 2012


Lemon Curdistan posted:

Okay, that part probably has to do with D&D a bit.

More seriously: because the Shaman concept I had in mind when I wrote the class is lifted from fantasy sources where the shaman is:

1) predominantly from tribal cultures that spurn urban environments;
2) part medicine man (of the natural, plant medicine type);
3) has a strong connection to animals (able to shapeshift/summon animals).

You're completely right that you can have civilised shamans and warrior shamans and sneaky shamans and shamans who also worship a deity and every other kind of shaman you want, hence the MC moves being rewritten.


No, but I'm not entirely sure what L5R has to do with anything?

I think he was going for eastern shamanism.

Full disclosure. I might be talking out of my rear end since most of this comes from manga and other Asian pop culture + Wikipedia and I don't have the appropriate background in cultural research, so take all of the following with a grain of salt. But I was under the impression that Asia has a long tradition of organised shamanistic religion, and a bunch of old empires, which resulted into a bunch of civilized spiritualists. Like the japanese onmyoji or the chinese wu, for example.

So you're basically skipping half of the world's shamans by focusing on the european/native american version of shamanism.

Edit: I mean, my earlier example was basically just generic orientalist shaman, based on said pop culture impressions.

Oo Koo fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2013 around 20:32

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Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.


It's Lemon's class. If you want to give it Multiclass dabbler, that's fine, but this thread has been 30% "you didn't put a move in there, how dare you?" / "I didn't think it'd fit."

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