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Which religion is the best?
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FEAR CLOWNPIECE 414 67.21%
Total: 616 votes
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NO LISTEN TO ME
Jan 2, 2009

So long, gay bowser

Mazed posted:

It's difficult to imagine ZUN not deliberately setting the bait for some artists, with stuff like that. This is very easily the most badass EX boss theme the series has had.

In the meantime, though, Sukuna's theme sounds like a moodier take on Byakuren's, at least in parts. This isn't a bad thing, but I wonder if it was intentional.

One thing I love about ZUN's music in recent games is that each game starting at MoF has a very distinctive style to it, it stops the games from running together. MoF is eastern-style, SA has more occidental/western rhythms, UFO is carefree and jazzy, TD is beat-oriented and poppy, and DDC went full-out rock.

It's pretty great.

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a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011





Aw yeah.

ProfessorProf
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w_CjLt3azg

Right after bitching about how hard this was! EX cleared and recorded, with 2 lives and 3 bombs left at the end. No deaths at all in the first eight minutes!

Pretty loving stoked about this clear, best I've ever run on any EX stage by far. It was my first time even seeing the last card!

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010



NO LISTEN TO ME posted:

One thing I love about ZUN's music in recent games is that each game starting at MoF has a very distinctive style to it, it stops the games from running together. MoF is eastern-style, SA has more occidental/western rhythms, UFO is carefree and jazzy, TD is beat-oriented and poppy, and DDC went full-out rock.

It's pretty great.

I know exactly what you mean, and I noticed about the same thing. I could probably describe my impressions better if I had the faintest grasp of music structure and terminology, but instead I'll just wax poetic and say that MoF's is the soundtrack to beautiful weather, SA's is party time, UFO's is all about pulp adventure, TD's is celebrity-cool, and DDC is at once moody and chill, like drinking beer on the porch in a thunderstorm.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Mazed posted:

I know exactly what you mean, and I noticed about the same thing. I could probably describe my impressions better if I had the faintest grasp of music structure and terminology, but instead I'll just wax poetic and say that MoF's is the soundtrack to beautiful weather, SA's is party time, UFO's is all about pulp adventure, TD's is celebrity-cool, and DDC is at once moody and chill, like drinking beer on the porch in a thunderstorm.

The impression I get is that ZUN keeps discovering new instruments on his synthesizer and plays around with them. Unless I'm misremembering, PCB introduced his famous trumpets, and IN had an awful lot of piano. Of course from this perspective DDC really stands out as "I have a drum! Drum youkai!" Not that ZUN experimenting with this is at all a bad thing. Although I have heard some complaints that TD and DDC's soundtracks aren't "Touhou-ish" and to a certain extent I can see that. It really depends on how you define Touhou-ish I guess.

On an unrelated note, I'm not sure what the etiquette for this is, but to whoever gave me this avatar: Thanks? I guess? It is of course entirely appropriate.

Maximum Chenergy
Aug 30, 2007

Its black mist swallows all.



Clarste posted:

The impression I get is that ZUN keeps discovering new instruments on his synthesizer and plays around with them. Unless I'm misremembering, PCB introduced his famous trumpets, and IN had an awful lot of piano. Of course from this perspective DDC really stands out as "I have a drum! Drum youkai!" Not that ZUN experimenting with this is at all a bad thing. Although I have heard some complaints that TD and DDC's soundtracks aren't "Touhou-ish" and to a certain extent I can see that. It really depends on how you define Touhou-ish I guess.

On an unrelated note, I'm not sure what the etiquette for this is, but to whoever gave me this avatar: Thanks? I guess? It is of course entirely appropriate.

no it's been there since EoSD. Although ZUN did like using a few more violin-esque synths. I think people just remember Border of life and Necrofantasia since the trumpets are very noticeable in those songs.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011




Sort of out of curiosity, I decided to try some of this Touhou stuff. Per the OP's recomenndation, I tried out Imperishable Night... and loved it. I am terrible at shooters, so I just beat it on easy... first with continues and then later without any. Felt like a pro until I took on the Extra Stage, so now I'm dutifully trying to master Normal like I should have from the beginning.

Anyway, poo poo is rad and I can't get enough. I'm curious, though... is everyone in Gensokyo a psycopath, or just the people that can fly around and shoot bullets at insane speeds?

Also is there a gold standard for input devices? I'm currently using my keyboard, which is fine as far as I can tell. I still occasionally overshoot and hit a bullet when trying to dodge, but I expect that's just me being a scrub.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

Yes, everyone in Gensokyo is crazy. As for your question, no there is no "better" input device. You'll see people argue about whether or not keyboards or joypads are better but it all comes down to preference.

Karasu Tengu
Feb 16, 2011

Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter


Maximum Chenergy posted:

no it's been there since EoSD. Although ZUN did like using a few more violin-esque synths. I think people just remember Border of life and Necrofantasia since the trumpets are very noticeable in those songs.

Ughh don't remind me about the ESOD trumpets, they are the worst things ever.

NO LISTEN TO ME
Jan 2, 2009

So long, gay bowser

Evil Sagan posted:

Sort of out of curiosity, I decided to try some of this Touhou stuff. Per the OP's recomenndation, I tried out Imperishable Night... and loved it. I am terrible at shooters, so I just beat it on easy... first with continues and then later without any. Felt like a pro until I took on the Extra Stage, so now I'm dutifully trying to master Normal like I should have from the beginning.

Anyway, poo poo is rad and I can't get enough. I'm curious, though... is everyone in Gensokyo a psycopath, or just the people that can fly around and shoot bullets at insane speeds?

Also is there a gold standard for input devices? I'm currently using my keyboard, which is fine as far as I can tell. I still occasionally overshoot and hit a bullet when trying to dodge, but I expect that's just me being a scrub.

1. Everyone in Gensokyo that can fly and shoot bullets (the majority of people in Gensokyo) is a psychopath, idiot, or just generally a inconsiderate rear end in a top hat that doesn't realize what they're doing.

2. Input devices, unless you're playing the fighting games, is largely personal preference. Try it out with a gamepad if you want, and if you like it better, go for it. If not, stick with keyboard.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

NO LISTEN TO ME posted:

1. Everyone in Gensokyo that can fly and shoot bullets (the majority of people in Gensokyo) is a psychopath, idiot, or just generally a inconsiderate rear end in a top hat that doesn't realize what they're doing.

If you listen to some of the fan-works (FMW, anyone?), even the nameless human background characters are idiots and inconsiderate assholes, too.

It's just that the flying, bullet-shooting psychopaths are roughly 99% of the actual named cast, and at least 90% of the entire population of Gensokyo, named or unnamed. Oh, and everyone drinks (...except for the ascetic monk, and it has been commented in one of the side-books that because of that, "she doesn't have many friends")

So basically, yes. Everyone gets pissed off, shoots bullet hell at each other, and then goes and bonds over getting poo poo-faced together. Such is the Touhou way.

It's kind of like a Valhalla for mythologically-themed, bullet-spewing little girls in frilly dresses.

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at Aug 19, 2013 around 19:11

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011




KataraniSword posted:

So basically, yes. Everyone gets pissed off, shoots bullet hell at each other, and then goes and bonds over getting poo poo-faced together. Such is the Touhou way.

I knew there was a reason I was so drawn into this! I really liked the Good Ending for Imperishable Night. Somehow it seems appropriate and somewhat heartwarming for all the characters that just shot bullets eachother at the drop of a hat (seriously, there was no drat reason for Marisa and Reimu to be fighting over the moon thing) to be making bad jokes and being whimsical about the moon over stolen sake.

Am I correct in understanding that the Extra Stage is effectively a difficulty above Lunatic Mode? Trying to figure out how I should train myself up.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

Extra is basically Normal +. If you can 1cc the game on Normal you're ready to try it (hence why it unlocks), and if you can do it on Hard you have a decent shot at beating it.

Most of Extra's difficulty comes from the patterns. Do a few practice runs or watch some videos online; get a feel for what's going to happen and you'll find the stage much easier to beat.

Also I can't remember exactly where IN Extra is on the relative difficulty chart, but I think it was on the higher end? I dunno, help me out here duck.

ProfessorProf
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?


IN Extra is one of the three I've ever managed to beat, and was my first Extra clear, for what that's worth. Only others I've managed are TD and DDC, so I guess what I'm saying is that Spell Practice makes everything easier.

e:

Evil Sagan posted:

(seriously, there was no drat reason for Marisa and Reimu to be fighting over the moon thing)

If memory serves, one of the side works portrays Reimu and Marisa having a danmaku battle over which one of them is going to cook dinner.

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010


Clarste posted:

On an unrelated note, I'm not sure what the etiquette for this is, but to whoever gave me this avatar: Thanks? I guess? It is of course entirely appropriate.

Not to clog up the thread with E/N bullshit, but: a mutual friend of ours had me do it. He wanted me to explain in a PM, but you don't have plat, so eh.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011




ProfessorProf posted:

IN Extra is one of the three I've ever managed to beat, and was my first Extra clear, for what that's worth. Only others I've managed are TD and DDC, so I guess what I'm saying is that Spell Practice makes everything easier.

I believe it. Spell practice has been an important part of my push to complete Normal. Though it's kind of befuddling how I can tirelessly take on a spell card until I succesfully capture it, only to still have my face pushed in when I resume playing the actual game and have bombs and lives to aid me.

quote:

If memory serves, one of the side works portrays Reimu and Marisa having a danmaku battle over which one of them is going to cook dinner.

And these are what pass as friends in Gensokyo, right? I'm assuming the only reason the yokai haven't eaten everyone already is because they are equally dysfunctional.

Also it seems maybe the stakes aren't too high in danmaku battle. It almost seems like a fast-paced, action-packed contest to determine who has to buy the first round after all this bring spring/the moon/the sun back stuff gets resolved.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


It's purposefully non-lethal and, in universe, a way to evenly settle disputes in a realm with people (Yukari, Yuyuko, Yuuka?, so on) who are so powerful they could level it. The powers that be also forced it to be standard, so people can't get to uppity and, you know, destroy their little zoo.

That's largely just a excuse for the games, of course.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

And let me tell you, it all falls apart in the fighting games where those bullet patterns suddenly become physical blows and gigantic energy attacks.

Like just about every other video game setting, there's stuff in Touhou that just doesn't make sense. The best response is to not care and just enjoy the game.

Fighting Falken
Aug 13, 2012


Evil Sagan posted:


And these are what pass as friends in Gensokyo, right? I'm assuming the only reason the yokai haven't eaten everyone already is because they are equally dysfunctional.


They are, more or less, each others best friend and they end up doing poo poo like that. They're the best jerks in a series full of amazing jerks.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011




I dig it so much. I wish it hadn't taken me so long to check this stuff out. I'm really enjoying IN and the setting just conveys such a unique brand of insanity.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

BlitzBlast posted:

The best response is to not care and just enjoy the game.

You can't let yourself be held back by common sense.

AdorableStar
Jul 13, 2013






BlitzBlast posted:

Extra is basically Normal +. If you can 1cc the game on Normal you're ready to try it (hence why it unlocks), and if you can do it on Hard you have a decent shot at beating it.


I thought an extra stage's difficulty was the same as lunatic.

Saigyouji
Aug 26, 2011

Friends 'ave fun together.


Kheldragar posted:

I thought an extra stage's difficulty was the same as lunatic.

Not even close. Otherwise Phantasm would just be a curtain of bullets. Really, it varies, but it's mostly above-Normal, maybe just above-Hard in a pinch.

escape mechanism
Feb 12, 2012



Kheldragar posted:

I thought an extra stage's difficulty was the same as lunatic.

Not at all. Some of the patterns and situations you find in the extra stages could have their place in lunatic difficulty, but extra stages are much shorter than the full playthroughs and their difficulty can be compensated by memorisation because much more bullets are aimed or static than in lunatic. Their overall bullet density and speed is similar to that of hard mode, really.

As BlitzBlast said, Extra is meant to be played, and cleared, from the moment it unlocks.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011




escape mechanism posted:

As BlitzBlast said, Extra is meant to be played, and cleared, from the moment it unlocks.

I'm sort of skeptical about this because I unlocked it by doing a 1cc playthrough on Easy. But then, difficulty jumps appear to be quite severe in this game as it is. I'm finding Normal much more difficult than I expected; so far I can only clear the 5th stage using continues, but I can't go on to the Final stage because it's always at least 5 AM by the time I get there.

ProfessorProf
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?


The unlock conditions vary from game to game, but generally Extra is best tackled after you can clear Normal without continuing. There are probably exceptions, but I only have experience with a few of the EX stages.

escape mechanism
Feb 12, 2012



Evil Sagan posted:

I'm sort of skeptical about this because I unlocked it by doing a 1cc playthrough on Easy. But then, difficulty jumps appear to be quite severe in this game as it is. I'm finding Normal much more difficult than I expected; so far I can only clear the 5th stage using continues, but I can't go on to the Final stage because it's always at least 5 AM by the time I get there.

I actually cleared IN extra before IN normal (or indeed any normal except PCB). Admittedly, this involved a lot of grinding through spellcard practice and carefully studying replays to see the best route to take through the stage, but it's doable (with the border team).

I was forgetting than some of the other games unlock extra after an Easy 1cc when I wrote that though.

IN easy is unusually easy and IN normal relatively tough, by the way, so the jump in difficulty appears steeper than in the other games.

unpronounceable
Apr 4, 2010

You mean we still have another game to go through?!


Fallen Rib

ProfessorProf posted:

The unlock conditions vary from game to game, but generally Extra is best tackled after you can clear Normal without continuing. There are probably exceptions, but I only have experience with a few of the EX stages.

I was planning on trying them when I had a good handle on hard for the different games. Maybe I should try the extra stages instead. I'll probably have more fun with it than trying to make my way through SA normal anyway.

Not that anyone's asking, but I've managed to 1CC PCB, IN, and MOF.

NO LISTEN TO ME
Jan 2, 2009

So long, gay bowser

unpronounceable posted:

I was planning on trying them when I had a good handle on hard for the different games. Maybe I should try the extra stages instead. I'll probably have more fun with it than trying to make my way through SA normal anyway.

Not that anyone's asking, but I've managed to 1CC PCB, IN, and MOF.

SA and UFO are probably the hardest games to 1cc clear on normal. I beat MoF and IN's Extra stages before I cleared SA and UFO.

Try out TD or DDC if you haven't already, they have a comfortable difficulty if you're decent at PCB, IN, and MoF.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

DDC is comfortable if you play as Sakuya A you mean. I feel like it's actually among one of the harder games, even with the generous amounts of bombs it gives you.

I guess it's time for Opinions About Touhou Game Difficulty again.

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004



College Slice

There are some fantastic comics too which expand on the 'everyone is a dick' theme, as well as just some fantastic comics in general. Official canon is pretty sparse so the community has a habit of grabbing the smallest thing and running with it. Sometimes they run it into the ground, some times they take it to places you don't wanna go, but other times they take it all the way up to the stratosphere. Forbidden Scrollery is the current official on-going one and it's great but there are quite a few fan-made ones that are well worth checking out.

(This is everyone's excuse to post their favourite Touhou comics. Go.)

ProfessorProf
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?


Just skip directly to Oriental Sacred Place and Strange and Bright Nature Deity to learn about the best characters in the entire series.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

ProfessorProf posted:

Just skip directly to Oriental Sacred Place and Strange and Bright Nature Deity to learn about the best characters in the entire series.

Sadly, Marisa's tsuchinoko only existed for a single plot point.

Hashtag Yoloswag
Mar 24, 2013

...I'm sorry. I can't seem to remember any of the rest.


Evil Sagan posted:

I dig it so much. I wish it hadn't taken me so long to check this stuff out. I'm really enjoying IN and the setting just conveys such a unique brand of insanity.

I really hope you played as Magic Team, because Marisa gets the best line in the game in stage 4.

a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011



I made a big post comparing extra stages to each other but my browser crashed, so the general gist is, PCB and MoF are the easiest extra stages, EoSD, SA and GFW are the hardest, the rest is all kinda in the middle but it's all highly subjective and there's little common consensus anyway. Also, nobody cares about PoFV or the photography games anyway so their extra stages don't matter.

Anyway about the setting discussion earlier, the only reason youkai aren't just eating the entire human village is that the world in Touhou operates on this "if enough people believe something is real, then it is real" deal. The games actually take place in the present day, Gensokyo's just some pocket dimension that was created to preserve youkai since people stopped believing in monsters and superstitions and poo poo. The human village is pretty much just there to keep believing youkai into existence, so the youkai make sure the human population stays stable. Unfortunately for the human population though youkai don't actually care about individual human lives, so nobody's gonna bat an eye if some humans get killed an eaten so as long as the village stays safe as a whole. It kinda sucks being a human in Gensokyo when you're not a shrine maiden or magician.

Squiddycat
Jan 14, 2010

There's a super special, super popular thing called spaghetti that I want to try!

Lipstick Apathy

Hashtag Yoloswag posted:

I really hope you played as Magic Team, because Marisa gets the best line in the game in stage 4.

The nonsensically mis-translated line or something else?

Hashtag Yoloswag
Mar 24, 2013

...I'm sorry. I can't seem to remember any of the rest.


Volt Catfish posted:

The nonsensically mis-translated line or something else?

The Bitch, get out of the way! one. Not sure it it's the same you're talking about.

There's also the whole "bickering like an old married couple" dynamic that Magic Team has.

ProfessorProf
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?


They've also got some fantastic banter in SA.

Tangents
Aug 23, 2008



Hashtag Yoloswag posted:

The Bitch, get out of the way! one. Not sure it it's the same you're talking about.

Yeah, that's the one he meant.

E: A little late, but here's a post from the person responsible for it.

Tangents fucked around with this message at Aug 20, 2013 around 03:40

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BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

IN legitimately has the best translation of all the Touhou games.

a cartoon duck posted:

Also, nobody cares about PoFV

Thanks for the lead in!

If any of you guys go on LP, you probably remember the 12.3 tournament that just happened. If you don't, well there was one. And now there's going to be a PoFV tournament sometime next month! The tentative starting date is September 21-22, but that can change if needed.

If you're interested, you can sign up here.

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