|
Which religion is the best? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Shintoism |
|
59 | 9.58% |
| Buddhism |
|
77 | 12.50% |
| Taoism |
|
66 | 10.71% |
| FEAR CLOWNPIECE |
|
414 | 67.21% |
| Total: | 616 votes | ||
|
DrSunshine posted:
Maybe I'm just insane, but I think about this stuff a lot. I mean, Touhou. I guess you could say I overanalyze it as a hobby. Anyway, while I'm loath to use the word "deep" to describe anything other than holes in the ground or bodies of water, I think Reimu is someone who it would be hard to understand if you only played the games. She's a shrine maiden, but doesn't know her god, etc etc the stuff you all talked about on the previous page. Basically you can boil it all down to the fact that she's kind of stupid and doesn't know what faith is. Her "hare-brained schemes" to attract worshipers that she spends all of Wild and Horned Hermit doing, along with her attitude in things like Symposium of Post-Mysticism and Forbidden Scrollery all seem to indicate that she thinks of faith as "how much the people in the village like me" which converts directly into "how much they donate to the shrine". In other words, she thinks of it as a business. The "shrine business", as she specifically refers to in WAHH. She earns all her money from youkai extermination, which would be fine except for the fact that no one's paying her. She vaguely hopes people will appreciate her protecting them from youkai, and that's the extent of her business model. She doesn't even advertise what she's doing half the time. Kanako, who actually does have a working shrine business model, albeit for faith, thinks that Reimu is simply wasting the faith that she collects along the way. It certainly doesn't go to her god, or to Shinto in general. If she was any good at it Reimu might become a god someday, but she's not. Anyway, she constantly feels the pinch of PR. A lot of her actions are motivated by "the villagers are nagging me to get rid of X." She's worried about her horrible reputation for being a "youkai-infested" shrine that regularly gets youkai visitors, and she's worried about other shrines and temples moving in on her turf. Because she wants to be the person the human villagers come to for their religious needs (ie: youkai extermination), because she wants money. I've heard it joked that "the hardest part about assigning the Seven Deadly Sins to Touhou characters is not just giving them all the Reimu", but oddly enough she seems to be doing pretty well in Hell's logbooks. Her "simple" desires and honesty and all that make her something something. As for HM, I doubt she's representing Shinto. One of her victory animations is her slapping a big "No Solicitation" sign on the screen, implying her main goal is to get everyone else to stop. Which is related to her aforementioned self-imposed duty to "protect the village from youkai (and gods and hermits)" along with her desire to get rid of the competition. The three religious factions presumably align with the three big speakers from SoPM: the Shinto god Kanako who wants to expand her market from just the youkai mountain (which doesn't accept human visitors), the Buddhist monk Byakuren (who wants the idea of peacefully coexisting with youkai to be accepted), and the Taoist hermit Miko (who wants... I have no idea since SoPM ended with her conceding to just hang out in peace by herself, like a proper hermit). Reimu and Marisa are the neutral parties trying to get rid of them, and presumably there's going to be a new character as the final boss, who somehow instigated the "incident". I had intended this to be informative and interesting, but I think I just said the same stuff you guys already said in more words. Anyway, ZUN does a ton of worldbuilding in the side materials, which most people just kinda ignore. Clarste fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Apr 15, 2013 |
#
¿
Apr 15, 2013 09:33
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 16, 2024 19:18 |
|
|
Yeah, I've been translating WaHH and FS. Apologies for being terrible at it. Just finished a new chapter of WaHH actually. Kasen is probably an oni. Who'd have thought? And while there's almost certainly going to be a new character triggering the events of HM a la Suika or Tenshi, I don't think that completely negates the other characters' motivations for participating. Even in the main games Reimu and Marisa have consistent motivations for trying to resolve the incident. Unless they're mind controlled or something, I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2013 10:43
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:Reimu doesn't believe in effort. She believes in effort, she's just lazy. There's a joke in WAHH chapter 7 about how she's putting all her effort into the wrong directions, such as get-rich-quick schemes that involve kidnapping gods. And to a certain extent that's pretty much all she ever does in WAHH. When they fail, she laments that her effort isn't being rewarded. And in SSIB she actually trains in how to summon gods, for no reason other than being very bored. As for not advertising her accomplishments, I think this might be a matter of timing. It's only recently that she's started caring about her reputation, and telling people that you did something cool almost 10 years ago doesn't sound very credible. Nowadays she's doing things like following the whims of the village. In general, her lack of effort is more a matter of being lazy than any philosophical position. Although surely you can attribute that to her talent, if you like. She never learned how to properly try. Namtab posted:/\/\/\One of many reasons Reimu owns All I know is that it's hard to resist the urge to make Marisa talk like a cowboy. Clarste fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Apr 16, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Apr 16, 2013 00:32
|
|
|
Not sure if it's directly related, but there's a little bit in one of the SoPM newspaper articles about how other heavenly maidens are finding husbands by dropping their veils on Earth (a reference to an old fairy tale), and Iku gets interviewed about it and she's pretty critical of the practice. So... uh... I guess the characters chosen to act out this little drama aren't completely random?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 16, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
Dinky Duck Race posted:Attack on Touhou What's Reimu doing in what's otherwise a collection of second-to-last bosses?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2013 05:21
|
|
|
Namtab posted:I'm actually ZUN irl. The new character will live in Gensokyo. Don't tell anyone. I know I'm simply ruining the joke, but quite a lot of characters don't live in Gensokyo proper. Usually other dimensions or afterlives. Yuyuko, Eiki, Tenshi, Miko... Just counting final bosses those are actually 1/2. Only 50% of Windows Era final bosses live in Gensokyo. So, uh... that's not actually a safe bet to make.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2013 19:39
|
|
|
Namtab posted:Those dimensions themselves are within Gensokyo. QED Um... they're not? I guess you're trying to generalize Gensokyo as "the place where Touhou takes place" but for the purposes of the story they're definitely not. The Netherworld is connected to both Gensokyo and the real world, and Eiki is the highest judge of "Xanadu", not Gensokyo, although presumably this is a jurisdiction that includes Gensokyo. In SoPM Miko explicitly says she doesn't live in Gensokyo after the others assume she does, and Heaven is considered analogous to the Lunar Capital, which as you may recall is kinda sorta at war with Gensokyo, at least as far as Yukari is concerned. They'd certainly be disgusted at the thought of being included in Gensokyo. For the purposes of the story, Gensokyo is a particular yet vaguely defined place in Japan surrounded by a magical barrier that preserves fantastic things inside it. Anything outside that barrier isn't part of Gensokyo, yet fantasy things can live outside it and half the plots of the game revolve around new immigrants. And the other half invaders. Also, it's not that vague, in that devoted fans have narrowed it down to a certain region based on various geographic clues. Most specifically, Youkai Mountain is identified with a real mountain range in CiLR.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2013 23:45
|
|
|
Youmu's powerful, but her idiosyncratic shot system takes up valuable attention. In a game full of little dots trying to kill you at all time, that can be troublesome. I really don't like gimmicks that require me to change what I'm doing, which is holding down the fire button (and sometimes shift) and moving very carefully. I dislike Marisa-Patchouli from SA for the same reason.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2013 04:47
|
|
|
Well, Marissa with two 's's is a fairly common name in the Anglosphere. I have to admit that even I pronounce it like that in my head.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2013 23:00
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:Wait, so it's not pronounced Muh-RISS-suh? That's always how I pronounced it, extra "s" or not. It's written like a Japanese name (although an unusual one), so technically it should be pronounced Mah-Ree-Sah. I've never really heard of anyone caring that much though. Thinking of Anglo names for the characters is actually a really fun exercise, but I usually just get to calling Yukari "Violet" and giving up. I don't think Jessica really fits Byakuren though. She should have a more old fashioned sounding name. She is from a thousand years ago after all. Like, Fransisca or something. That's just off the top of my head though. Cecilia?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2013 23:55
|
|
|
I think that might be a bit confusing when there's another character named Remilia who is in fact called Remmy by her friends. Although I suppose you could also change her name, but then you get into changing things for its own sake. I'd probably call her Rachel or something, but I'm a terrible person.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2013 00:45
|
|
|
Touhou doesn't really have anything objectionable that a censor would need to change, does it? Well, I guess there's the whole afterlife/religion thing which is omnipresent, but it seems simple enough to just never mention it at all. Heck, we even had someone in this thread who figured all that was just part of Gensokyo with no deeper meaning. The main thing I can think of is the main characters getting drunk all the time. Like, all the time. Even if we have no idea how old Reimu and Marisa are (hey, they could be in their 20's, who knows?) they probably wouldn't appreciate having alcoholics as main characters.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2013 05:12
|
|
|
I suppose it's not unheard of for dubbed anime characters to get drunk on tea or milk.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2013 05:28
|
|
|
Falls Down Stairs posted:
Time passing isn't quite the same thing as characters aging. Unless you think Peter Parker is 70 years old. It's entirely possible that ZUN intends for Reimu and Marisa to stay vaguely teenage forever. Although honestly Akyuu presents bigger problems since she was explicitly given a time limit on her life, and since she started younger aging should be more noticeable. Although recently she seems to be only the same age as Kosuzu. Casull posted:(I don't know how to localize Kirisame.) Krissie-May
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2013 06:02
|
|
Aya's articles in the side books are actually dated (archiacally, but convertable to modern gregorian dates) and
|
Cirno is pronounced something close to "cheer-no". It sounds vaguely Italian to me, but I don't know a word of Italian so take that with a grain of salt. Flandre is... a pretty big liberty taken by the translators. Unlike the rest of the Windows games, EoSD didn't have romanized names for the characters, and of the cast of EoSD only Rumia and Flandre have never appeared again. It's written in katakana as fu-ran-dō-ru, which would be pronounced something like "Frandoll". Her name does appear in PMiSS though, as sort of a signature on her portrait. It's handwritten, but to me it looks like Frandlo. Maybe Frandle. Although neither of those spellings would explain the long o sound. In short, while it's currently impossible to change the fandom's perception of her name, ultimately it comes from translators making stuff up.
|
|
#
¿
May 1, 2013 23:19
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:They're both in PMiSS and StB. I meant "showed up in a game" so I wasn't counting PMiSS, but I completely forgot about StB. Does it have the characters' names written in English though? I can't remember off the top of my head, but it doesn't have healthbars which is where they normally appear. PMiSS does have their names written down, but it comes in the form of signatures so it's not always clear. Also Remilia misspells Scarlet as Scaret. Rumia is Rumia and Flandre is Frandle.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2013 01:59
|
|
|
Yeah, she's pretty much the least important character in the series. Also EoSD was written before there was a real setting in place. MoF and onwards seems to be when ZUN decided to start worldbuilding. I guess you can count PMiSS in there too, since it was clearly written to foreshadow MoF.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2013 13:46
|
|
|
Hmm... is it widely known that you aren't going to do HM? Because I'd imagine that a lot of people wouldn't bother touching it if they assume that the same group that does all the other games is going to do it. I can't say I follow the translation-patch community though. Also, I've heard horror stories of vertical, manga-style text bubbles in HM. We're all doomed, seriously.
|
|
#
¿
May 5, 2013 12:13
|
|
|
If it's just an image of text with a fixed dimension, what's the problem? That's like 30 seconds in photoshop, at most. Heck, contact a scanslator because that's all they do ever. Although I guess the transparency might be a problem.
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2013 05:33
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:That and fitting in translated text. Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Demon Binding Circle" is a heck of a lot wider than 神技「八方鬼縛陣」 for instance. As I said, contact a scanslator because that's all they do ever. Trying to fit something into a tiny (vertical) word balloon can be tricky, but it's not insurmountable.
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2013 07:08
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:The issue here is that you shouldn't have to do that. A game is not a page of a manga; if you tried to increase the size of a text bubble while scanlating it'd look ugly as hell and actually cover up some of the art. But in a game? If your picture can't fit in the established boundaries, all you should have to do is increase those boundaries. "Shouldn't have to" seems kind of strong, doesn't it? While obviously in an ideal world Tasofro would have made their game easily mod-able with simple text strings and flexible windows (although I'm not a programmer so I don't know precisely what that would entail), they're certainly not under any kind of obligation to. We're essentially pirating their work. I know the standard stance is that we should be applying the patch only to a legal copy of the game, but... that doesn't actually make a translation any more legal. If anything we should be glad they're not suing us. So, given that they've apparently created a labyrinthine monstrosity, the question becomes how much of a challenge it is for us to work with. And, well, editing image files with text on them as well as trying to be concise with translations is something a lot of people already a lot of experience with. You can hate "compromise" as much as you like, but if that's the only thing spurring you to do something you consider hellish then maybe you should rethink why you're working for free on a pirated version of a fangame. And honestly, if even after doing all that work you still end up with obvious errors like turning "Laplace's Demon" into "Demon Eye of Laplace", which I'll note is both longer and more inaccurate, then the fact that you've invested more time into reprogramming the text engine to fit a proper translation instead of actually editing your translation strikes me as ironic. Sorry if this sounds disrespectful to the people who actually did all this work, presumably for no pay and out of the goodness of their hearts, but I've never once thought that good intentions were meant to be converted directly into quality. Sometimes you just have to work with what you're given, and heck sometimes that makes the result even better (ie: "Bitch, get out of the way"). Clarste fucked around with this message at 09:51 on May 6, 2013 |
|
#
¿
May 6, 2013 09:49
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:Unless the programmers were getting paid for each line of code (which would explain a lot They're not getting paid at all. It's a doujin circle. I mean, they sell it for money and who knows how they distribute that, but it's not a company. Although I agree that it would also make it easier on themselves if it was coded better. But they didn't. As for the quality of someone squeezing something into a text bubble, isn't it common sense that whenever it's successful you wouldn't even notice? You wouldn't think anything is out of place because it fits naturally. You say "long English phrase" as if it isn't within the power of the editor to change the length of a phrase by rewording it.
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:...Why would them being a circle mean they don't get paid? Am I missing some part of how circles work or something? Obviously they're not corporations (though Team Shanghai Alice stock would be hilarious), but I don't see why that doesn't mean they can't work out some kind of wage. I hope this isn't construed as continuing the pointless discussion, but a doujin circle is basically a club. For the people involved, it's a hobby. They all have day jobs doing other things, or are university students. Even ZUN himself doesn't earn a living from making Touhou games. He used to have a job as a programmer at some other company, but quit once he became a professional manga writer. Yes, his job is writing the spin-off manga series that no one reads, and his hobby is making the ultra-popular games they're based on. That's how little money doujin works are expected to earn. Now, I don't think it's theoretically impossible for a doujin circle to work out some kind of wages, but I also don't see why they would. The whole premise behind it is fans working for free out of love for the product. That's their pride as doujin creators. If they wanted to make money they could just "sell out" and become a real company. That's not unheard of: TypeMoon started as a doujin circle before they started pimping their cash cow Fate franchise. Clarste fucked around with this message at 00:04 on May 7, 2013 |
|
#
¿
May 6, 2013 23:56
|
|
|
ikaragu posted:Is this true for all doujin groups? I know that some of them make their non-commercial status a badge of pride, but with regard to Touhou derivatives specifically it's frequently suggested that, due to Touhou's popularity, a lot of groups are producing Touhou derivatives because creating anything else is leaving money on the table. There seems to be the idea of a Touhou event horizon, where Touhou derivatives dominate the doujin sphere to the extent that the only commercially viable doujin that can be produced are more Touhou derivatives. But from what I read about the doujin scene there are people who believe that doujin and Touhou have already become inextricably linked, and money is cited as a reason. It's talk I tend to dismiss as hyperbole, but every time I look at the Touhou scene I'm amazed by how large it has managed to get. The Reitaisai catalogue is well on its way to becoming a phone book! I suppose that's possible, although the business logic there doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me. I mean, if Touhou is so popular that everyone else is already doing it, wouldn't that make switching to Touhou less attractive of an option? It'd be hard to stand out from the crowd and you'd be at a disadvantage against all the others with more experience, popular character interpretations, etc. I can see how there might have been a perfect moment to capitalize on Touhou's popularity, but that would have just been one moment and everyone else is late to the party. But yeah, obviously not everyone is going to have exactly the same motivations. On the other hand, ZUN's been friends with Tasofro since before it was really that popular, so Tasofro is unlikely to be composed of people in it for the fame or money.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2013 21:55
|
|
|
And then the deathblow comes in with the currently-under-negotiation TPP treaty that's likely to make derivative works flat-out illegal with no option for the copyright-holders to turn a blind eye.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2013 22:40
|
|
|
a cartoon duck posted:Sakuya's playable again? That's kinda disappointing when there's lots of stage 5 and/or 6 bosses who didn't get a chance to be playable in a shmup yet. I get the feeling that he's intentionally saying "the religion arc is over now".
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2013 22:09
|
|
|
a cartoon duck posted:Yes, but it still feels kinda silly to bring back older characters anyway is what I'm saying? But who knows, Youmu in TD was actually awesome so maybe I'll change my tune once this comes out, who knows. Also I guess maybe ZUN just wants to stick to humanish player character nowadays. Sanae isn't human-ish? But yes, "human" has always been one of the criteria for being playable in a main Windows shooting game. The exception being IN where canonically they were all human-youkai pairs (although you can play solo youkai as bonus content)..
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
Hazdoc posted:I hate new game speculation, because it brings all the Mima fans out of the woodwork. Does anyone actually seriously expect Mima anymore? I thought it was a running gag.
|
|
#
¿
May 11, 2013 08:33
|
|
|
Elliotw2 posted:It can't then, because Byakuren will have like one other person on her side. Mamizou? Although honestly having 2-3 people from each faction only sounds reasonable to me. How many playable characters were you expecting there to be?
|
|
#
¿
May 18, 2013 01:21
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:Just watch, HM will pull an IaMP and only have ten characters: Reimu, Marisa, Sanae, Byakuren, Ichirin, Mamizou, Miko, Futo, Seiga and the original. That's basically what I'm expecting. Creating sprites is hard work, so having an IaMP sized cast is only reasonable. Anything more is wishful thinking.
|
|
#
¿
May 18, 2013 01:28
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:Wishful thinking got Meiling into IaMP, so don't knock it. As a post-release patch.
|
|
#
¿
May 18, 2013 01:37
|
|
|
Dinky Duck Race posted:Yes I agree a Subterranean Animism rep seems fairly likely right now if Nitori could get in. I think the biggest clue is the lack of Subterranean Animism spectators, which implies the existence of a full SA stage. Whose stage? I have no clue. I never would have predicted Nitori so my predictometer is clearly unreliable. I think Utsuho actually has the lowest chance though. The game seems to be actively avoiding previously playable characters, other than Reimu and Marisa. I mean, who would have expected Sanae to sit out? And, well, given that she's sitting out and Nitori is in, any speculation in terms of "related to religion in some way" seems pretty meaningless to me. If Utsuho ends up in the game, it'll just because the designers wanted her, not because she's a god.
|
|
#
¿
May 21, 2013 02:20
|
|
|
Ranpire posted:I guess I can confirm this, now that Tasofro's had their trolling fun. Apparently a freelance animator did some work on the sprites for a returning character and tweeted about how he was eager to see her revealed on the website, but then realized that she wouldn't be revealed yet and tweeted that. And then deleted the tweets. His tweet used a speech trait associated with the spoilered character, so the third pattern is fairly close to confirmed.
|
|
#
¿
May 22, 2013 10:22
|
|
|
Nages posted:I am gone for a week and Dracula slips into a Touhou game, what the gently caress. Miko's new title is "Almighty Taoist who Rule the Universe".
|
|
#
¿
May 25, 2013 00:28
|
|
|
The flaw of course being that translation takes time away from playing the games.
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2013 02:01
|
|
|
Tengames posted:see that's why you release both a game and demo at the same time. you play one while translating the other. 4 hours is for the patch, not the translation. Their system allows for partial patches, apparently. The idea is to make an auto-updating wiki-based patch that can be updated constantly with no input from the patch-creators. The 4 hour estimate is for how long it will take to tweak their system to the new game's idiosyncrasies. Translation might occur simultaneously, but it's not linked to that timeframe. Translation will occur both before and after the patch is released. Honestly, it's not even really a patch. It's a new thing they're experimenting with.
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
Volt Catfish posted:Is translating a trial even worth it? The idea is that they've created interchangeable tech that works for any Touhou game (except the Tasofro ones), so when the final release comes out they can quickly port it over and have the translation start half-done. In a playable state. It's not a patch, it's a new patching paradigm. It also retroactively patches all the previous games, although obviously people don't care about that quite as much.
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2013 02:48
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:So the first thing some people did when they got HM was to check the code. Interesting. I've heard that people have been datamining the bugfix patch already released on the website and have determined that the final boss is Hata no Kokoro, a youkai Noh mask created by Prince Shoutoku back when he/she was alive. My random rumor is slightly more plausible in that it satisfies the "character named after kanji from title rule" but maybe that's a reason to disbelieve it. Kokoro seems a bit too straightforward. Also, Mamizou confirmed. Clarste fucked around with this message at 03:04 on May 26, 2013 |
|
#
¿
May 26, 2013 03:01
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:From what I hear, she was confirmed even before the big rush of reveals. Apparently a freelancer TasoFro hired to work on the game made a tweet (that he deleted shortly afterwards) hinting one of the playable characters in her speaking mannerism. I would argue that "hinted" is different from "confirmed", but okay, she was reconfirmed.
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2013 03:17
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 16, 2024 19:18 |
|
|
Ammat The Ankh posted:I thought Tasofro said that they had revealed all the characters that were returning from previous games. Why didn't they reveal Mamizou alongside the others, then? (Not that I doubt you, it just seems weird to not reveal Mamizou early when she was expected from the beginning). Presumably because she's related to the plot. She's the second-to-last boss. Incidentally, there's a nico livestream of the game now. So we've seen her in action.
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2013 04:09
|
|