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ShardPhoenix
Jun 15, 2001

Pickle: Inspected.


I kind of got the impression from the first two that Rebuild being a "sequel" wasn't so much implied as blatantly stated. I mean, I'm kind of surprised there's even any controversy over it.

Also for what it's worth I feel like discussion re: EoE and Eva in general around here seems to focus excessively on certain shocking or controversial elements rather than taking in the story in a more holistic fashion. Then again I guess with such an old and well-known series most of what can be said probably has been, somewhere or other.

edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is it sometimes seems like 90% of the discussion of Eva is in the same rut of either talking about whether you empathize with Shinji or not, or trying to understand EoE - either the ending or whether it was meant to be some sort of "take that" against the fans. I feel like there's more to the show than that. Of course having said that it would behoove me to post some other discussion myself, but having only seen the series once so far I'm not the most knowledgeable.

ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Apr 21, 2013

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Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Cardboard Box A posted:

That he wants to have his cake and eat it too doesn't make it less likely or less explanatory though. See also Zack Snyder and Sucker Punch.

Sucker Punch is a lot more explicitly meta-textual than Evangelion is. It's a story about a story about exploitation, and how fictional worlds exert influence on both other fictional worlds and on reality. Accordingly, a meta-textual reading has a lot more explanatory power re: Sucker Punch, compared to Evangelion where it tells you basically fuckall. Which is why I roll my eyes a little every time someone mentions that theory even if I don't strictly disagree.

EDIT: Although if you really want to find an audience surrogate character, there's a much more fitting choice than Shinji: it's Misato.

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Apr 21, 2013

Teabiscuit
Jul 21, 2005

by T. Finninho



I think this explanation makes end of evangelion my favourite anime.

Safety Biscuits
Oct 21, 2010



Dr_Amazing posted:

I watched the show and one of the movies. I didn't get it at all. Is there a good source that explains what was going on at the end?

The End of Evangelion isn't a sequel to episode 26 of the TV series; it's a sequel to episode 24. Episodes 25 and 26 show Instrumentality (Shinji deciding whether to be human or the hive-mind), which also occurs in the film, but Gainax couldn't show the external things happening due to lack of money. The soldiers don't invade after "Congratulations!"

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Sucker Punch is a lot more explicitly meta-textual than Evangelion is. It's a story about a story about exploitation, and how fictional worlds exert influence on both other fictional worlds and on reality. Accordingly, a meta-textual reading has a lot more explanatory power re: Sucker Punch, compared to Evangelion where it tells you basically fuckall. Which is why I roll my eyes a little every time someone mentions that theory even if I don't strictly disagree.

Eva has quite a few metatextual indicators though: Kensuke the otaku, Shinji watching cheesy disaster films, the flashback episode, the live-action/cartoony bits in Instrumentality, and allusions to other anime (and art): kaiju, giant robots, and school anime, etc. So it does have some uses, even if its points are generally personal rather than political.

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless



Teabiscuit posted:

I think this explanation makes end of evangelion my favourite anime.

Same here. I love the fact that he went the extra mile and actually drew that imagine of Anno standing on a summit, two middle fingers up in a sea of angry fanboys, dick waving in the air. He could have just left it as a metaphor, but the visual image really helps clarify exactly what Anno was trying to get across with EoE.

I'm not even being ironic right now.

Edged Hymn
Feb 4, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post



This is one of the best summations of the themes in the series I've ever seen. Wow, thanks for sharing.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

WELCOME TO THE DUNGEON

So in the end, at least according to the (rather poignant) points made by this fellow, it's basically a game of pick your poison.

Either:
  1. Cut the crap and grow the gently caress up as a person or...
  2. Keep on trucking along to the same rhyme and face a life of failure.

Anno just wanted to spread some tough love... that's loving beautiful.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Wark Say posted:

So in the end, at least according to the (rather poignant) points made by this fellow, it's basically a game of pick your poison.

Either:
  1. Cut the crap and grow the gently caress up as a person or...
  2. Keep on trucking along to the same rhyme and face a life of failure.

Anno just wanted to spread some tough love... that's loving beautiful.

Eva 3.0 certainly seems to follow this line of reasoning.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

WELCOME TO THE DUNGEON

Hey, I'll take what I can get. I imagine that, if any, the final battle should be Shinji, after finally coming to grips with the fact that he hosed up BADLY, that he lost everything he held dear and that he only has himself to blame, how he rides into the battle with a combination of and plastered on his face, stepping out of his audience surrogate role once and for all, because he has grown tired of being the reflection of a boring-rear end existence.

Dang, insomnia and an internet video can make you write some crazy-rear end stuff.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Guess I might as well weigh in as well. I think it raises a lot of very good points, and certainly adopts the correct approach in stepping back and viewing the entire franchise in the very unique context that it was conceived. At the same time, I'm not sure I necessarily share all of his views on EoE. I've never felt that EoE was a point-for-point refutation or invalidation of the TV series ending; it always seemed to me that its final message was that as painful and messed up as our lives can be, they are worth living even if is doomed for failure. Shinji makes his choices at the end not out of some vendetta against everyone else, but because of the positive memories he did possess (the use of Misato's necklace is the not-so-subtle symbolism of this). That the hardships endured did not outweigh those aspects. It's just that all of that doesn't mean Shinji was no longer broken even after everything was over.

That doesn't remove the "revenge" context that is inherit in the film, but I don't think it necessarily casts aside the TV series ending. I've always felt that both endings complement each other very nicely, and that both are the "real" ending together.

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


Just noticed that the follow up wasn't posted, so here it is!

It's unscripted and mostly responding to viewer discussion over the episode, though he does go over some new stuff, like how he couldn't figure out a way to write about Shinji's "nice guy" speech without having it be forced in, so he tried to edit the video in such a way that people watching would notice.

BEARS IN THE BARN
Oct 9, 2004


SatansBestBuddy posted:

Just noticed that the follow up wasn't posted, so here it is!

It's unscripted and mostly responding to viewer discussion over the episode, though he does go over some new stuff, like how he couldn't figure out a way to write about Shinji's "nice guy" speech without having it be forced in, so he tried to edit the video in such a way that people watching would notice.

His point about rebuild is definitely true in 3.0 with regards to duality in each title:
Shinji's desire to make things right and redo is counteracted by Kaworu's "Don't pick up that goddamn spear seriously". This is explored by, well, him picking up the goddamn spear and making everything worse. 3.0 certainly gives a lot of weight to the actions of each character, but the focus is on Shinji.

On a more non spoiler note, the title for Final messes with me because it would either mean Rebuild of Evangelion Theatrical Version: Final if the colon is used to preface the 'symbol' as previous titles:
ヱヴァンゲリヲン新劇場版:Q
シン・エヴァンゲリオン劇場版:||

Or if the colon is part of the 'symbol' it reads as a musical note, which is to play once and repeat (think of the end of an orchestrated movement, play once and again with a crescendo on the last few notes).
Basically that leads many people to believe that the previous series will have some bearing on the events of the last movie (tying them both together) and gently caress you Anno stop messing with us you dickhead

The Riddle of Feel
Feb 2, 2013



The time skip into an absolutely lovely future in 3.0 would be a fairly logical setup for a time loop, especially given 3.0's English title, which was apparently applied at Anno's direction. If there is one, though, I expect the loop to be self contained within Rebuild and involve some sort of sacrifice to undo the events of the ending of 2.0 and the aftermath.

Evangelion is all about throwing that sort of storytelling out the window, though, so I expect an hour and a half of hands, gore and tits animeing so hard it loses all coherence and sparks another decade of reductive overanalysis and arguments over whether it sucks or not.

BEARS IN THE BARN
Oct 9, 2004


The Riddle of Feel posted:

The time skip into an absolutely lovely future in 3.0 would be a fairly logical setup for a time loop, especially given 3.0's English title, which was apparently applied at Anno's direction. If there is one, though, I expect the loop to be self contained within Rebuild and involve some sort of sacrifice to undo the events of the ending of 2.0 and the aftermath.

Evangelion is all about throwing that sort of storytelling out the window, though, so I expect an hour and a half of hands, gore and tits animeing so hard it loses all coherence and sparks another decade of reductive overanalysis and arguments over whether it sucks or not.

Yeah, the other option is that the events of 3.0 are the 'do over'. I would tend to think that's more likely given the overall tone of Q

Rekka
Feb 1, 2004

oh god, it's.... THE DOOOO!

Everywhere in Akihabara were selling it early today but I've not seen much talk online...

cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies



I'm finally getting around to watching the Rebuild movies. They've really outdone themselves on Angel design.

Edit: Just finished 2.22. Jesus, that was a lot darker than I expected.

cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Apr 23, 2013

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!

I buy Steam inventories, add me if interested!




Clever Betty

cptn_dr posted:

Edit: Just finished 2.22. Jesus, that was a lot darker than I expected.
I don't know why but my neck just sprouted three heads, two Disney villains and The Grinch, and they won't stop doing this. It's weird, I can't imagine what could have caused it!

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Apr 23, 2013

Foul Ole Ron
Jan 6, 2005

THAT IS MY PROBATION
GIVE IT BACK YOU ARE A DOG
YOU CAN'T EVEN POST


Fun Shoe

Wark Say posted:

Hey, I'll take what I can get. I imagine that, if any, the final battle should be Shinji, after finally coming to grips with the fact that he hosed up BADLY, that he lost everything he held dear and that he only has himself to blame, how he rides into the battle with a combination of and plastered on his face, stepping out of his audience surrogate role once and for all, because he has grown tired of being the reflection of a boring-rear end existence.

Dang, insomnia and an internet video can make you write some crazy-rear end stuff.

All the while having the words "hint hint" flashing on screen after Shinji gives his big speech about learning how to man up accept responsibility for his mistakes getting on with his life.

Foul Ole Ron
Jan 6, 2005

THAT IS MY PROBATION
GIVE IT BACK YOU ARE A DOG
YOU CAN'T EVEN POST


Fun Shoe

Wark Say posted:

Anno just wanted to spread some tough love... that's loving beautiful.

That is why I love this show, Shinji is not a character, he is a character study!

If Anno intended the show to be like we are assuming and guessing its quite ingenious.

Getting to fans to engage with characters (either empathizing or hating shinji)and running said characters through a deep introspective examination, while looking their perceptions of reality.

Its almost like its a form of instrumentality itself....

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

I'm in the process of watching 3.0 and this movie has reminded me why whenever I hear "Ode to Joy" I am filled with an impending sense of doom

Alright I finished watching it. It was better than I expected! People made it sound like it was going to be like 70 minutes of Shinji and Kaworu's sweet romance bookended by two crazy action scenes but it was a lot smoother than that.

I feel a lot worse for Shinji in the movies than on the TV show. Understandable I guess, because the one time he tries to take initiative and do something cool, he ends up causing a second apocalypse. Then everyone hates him without telling him why, he has the truth about his mom and his psuedo-girlfriend unceremoniously dumped in his lap, and when he tries to make up for it, he ends up almost causing the apocalypse again! And the only person who has been both honest and nice to him gets turned into jam right in front of his eyes! And that too, is arguably his fault! TV Shinji is the lead character in a harem anime compared to what this sadsack goes through!

There's a lot of arguing about whether or not the message behind Eva's story has changed with the movies, but whether or not it has, I'm a lot more likely to listen to duder's exasperated treatise on how lovely Japanese society is if it's wrapped in such a lavishly produced bit of sci-fi action animation than... whatever the end of the TV series was. I give it a qualified thumbs up

OnimaruXLR fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Apr 23, 2013

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Are there even any decent fansubs of 3 out yet? I was under the impression that it's still all camrips.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



BD rips of 3.33 just started happening today. I bet we'll start seeing translations this weekend.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



dis astranagant posted:

BD rips of 3.33 just started happening today. I bet we'll start seeing translations this weekend.



That's a massively pleasant coincidence, I just rewatched 1.11 and am gonna get to 2.22. I still really love the art and sound in these movies. They do an amazing job of establishing the scale of the whole affair, which does a lot to drive home how utterly out of his depth Shinji is.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


Spiritus Nox posted:

Are there even any decent fansubs of 3 out yet? I was under the impression that it's still all camrips.

There's one out somewhere if you don't care about quality I guess.

Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009

bless this post ~kya


I've seen a rip packaged with a sub script, but nothing that's a unified product.

UberJumper
May 20, 2007
woop

Is the intro of Eva 3.33 really some hybrid of cgi and live action? Wat.

Srice
Sep 11, 2011



Paracelsus posted:

I've seen a rip packaged with a sub script, but nothing that's a unified product.

I'd be a bit skeptical since if 3.33 added any content (it probably added a few minor things here and there at the very least) the subs would desync pretty quickly since the existing subs were based on the cam rip.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Just wait for an actual release by a group. You've waited this long already, what's a few more days.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



It's not like you need a 5gb nearly lossless video + FLAC soundtrack copy

Terminal Entropy
Dec 26, 2012



dis astranagant posted:

It's not like you need a 5gb nearly lossless video + FLAC soundtrack copy

That door in 1.1 that was made out of worm screws was worth it alone to see in HD when Toonami aired it . Going by that and the rest of the other gratuitous shots in that are enough to get it in the highest definition possible.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



A 1080p movie doesn't have to be 5gb to look nice.

Abalieno
Apr 3, 2011


Follow progress of the release here: http://utw.me/2013/04/23/evangelion-3-33-status/

It's the usual joint with THORA.

(I guess it's fine to post the link?)

UberJumper
May 20, 2007
woop

I just finished 3.33

A few questions:

Why did Wunder get created? I get it was created to destroy nerv's EVA's but why did that happen?

What is an adams vessel?

Also when kaworu shows shinji the spinning moon, there are tons of evas. Where did they come from? I don't understand anything really that happened there.

Also jesus christ poor shinji.

UberJumper fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Apr 24, 2013

Scyantific
Feb 13, 2011



UberJumper posted:

I just finished 3.33

A few questions:

Why did Wunder get created? I get it was created to destroy nerv's EVA's but why did that happen?

Also when kaworu shows shinji the spinning moon, there are tons of evas. Where did they come from? I don't understand anything really that happened there.

Also jesus christ poor shinji.


Because Misato and the rest of NERV found out about Gendo's true intentions (use Shinji to achieve his version of Instrumentality to reunite with Yui). Also I guess they're going under the assumption that if an EVA is the only thing that can take an Angel head on, then the opposite must be true.

The EVAs that are shown are what I assume to be failed versions. It's been a while since I saw the camrip so don't quote me on this.

And yeah, Shinji is just getting shat upon constantly in this movie.

UberJumper
May 20, 2007
woop

Scyantific posted:

Because Misato and the rest of NERV found out about Gendo's true intentions (use Shinji to achieve his version of Instrumentality to reunite with Yui). Also I guess they're going under the assumption that if an EVA is the only thing that can take an Angel head on, then the opposite must be true.

The EVAs that are shown are what I assume to be failed versions. It's been a while since I saw the camrip so don't quote me on this.

And yeah, Shinji is just getting shat upon constantly in this movie.


Awesome thanks

One final question:

What was the deal with the 12th Angel? And why was unit 06 trapped there?

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

UberJumper posted:

Awesome thanks

One final question:

What was the deal with the 12th Angel? And why was unit 06 trapped there?

I took it as being that Nerv was using Kaoru's old Eva as a container for the 12th Angel, essentially a "trap" that would be sprung upon... well the events of the movie.

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

My cause is just...my will is strong...and my gun is very, very large!




I just saw last weeks 3.33 trailer yesterday and it's got me super pumped, I've managed to stay pure and unspoiled for what feels like a year now.

2 quick questions though, an english dub/release is still a long way off right? I remember the rule used to be "about 2-3 years" after a Japanese theatrical release. And also, is there much of a difference between the DVD and Bluray versions of 1.11 and 2.22, or are they pretty much the same but better quality? I have a dvd of 1.11 and it's just the movie on the disc and not much else..

Actually it might have been a copy of 1.01?

Paper Lion
Dec 13, 2009






1 is theatre, 1.01 is dvd and 1.11 is blu ray. They all follow that convention.

Falls Down Stairs
Nov 2, 2008

IT KEEPS HAPPENING


Paper Lion posted:

1 is theatre, 1.01 is dvd and 1.11 is blu ray. They all follow that convention.

Not really. Eva 1.01 is an earlier, shittier cut than 1.11; it had lovely problems in Japan like having too dark a picture, enough people complained that 1.11 was released to replace it. Then Eva 1.01 made it stateside even though 1.11 existed (with the darkness corrected) because stupid Japanese licensing required the stateside release schedule be exactly the same.

There is no such movie as 2.02; DVD and Blu-Rays are both 2.22.

Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Apr 24, 2013

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Paper Lion
Dec 13, 2009






Trap sprung nerd who watches this poo poo anyways

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