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Wark Say posted:So in the end, at least according to the (rather poignant) points made by this fellow, it's basically a game of pick your poison. Eva 3.0 certainly seems to follow this line of reasoning.
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Apr 22, 2013 00:32
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Mari is probably going to have a purpose because otherwise there's no reason for her to exist other than to give Maaya Sakamoto a paycheck. Considering that the movie otherwise has been extremely economical with removing characters it doesn't make much sense to introduce a new Eva pilot and not have her be meaningful in some way. It's pretty dumb that it's going to take at least three movies to get to the point she isn't Maaya Sakamoto Gets A Paycheck though.
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Apr 28, 2013 02:06
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Relin posted:While I can't say I'm not dumb for failing to make the connection, for the viewers sake they should have has a flash to Misato hitting the button. They did show that happen, it was during the Blood Type: Blue scene if I recall. Honestly, I wasn't big on 2.0 and 3.0 was the one that redeemed the previous one for me, so I don't understand the complaints at all. If 4.0 shits the bed then the building in 3.0 is going to be a waste of time, but I feel like 2.0 was a waste of time without what 3.0 did so I don't mind. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Apr 28, 2013 |
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Apr 28, 2013 10:48
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HobbitGrease posted:- One thing I found myself wondering with Shinji and Eva in this movie was if it was so important that he not pilot Eva again because he caused Third Impact, why didn't Wille just tell him what happened fourteen years ago? I guess they kind of answered this by saying they needed to 'regulate his emotions' or whatever, but it felt like, "Hey, let's treat Shinji badly but make him act the way we want him to act. It worked out so well before!" Shinji was told what happened 14 years ago by someone else and it made him collapse in upon himself but specifically did NOT make him refuse to pilot an Eva again if he thought it was strictly necessary. Shinji being upset and angry and desperate to prove himself and undo a mistake is exactly what got him back in the Eva last time in fact. There's also the fact that Evangelion Unit 01 has shown that it will respond to Shinji even if he isn't in it so "Eva-01 is locked up in Wunder's core" doesn't necessarily change that Shinji could use it to start an impact if things got really bad, even with Sync Ratio 0. Basically Shinji kinda probably should be dead or off the Wunder but Misato? Kinda bad at personal decisions when it comes to non-combat scenarios. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 28, 2013 |
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Apr 28, 2013 19:28
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Feranon posted:Watched 3.0 twice now. In and of itself, without taking any meta stuff into account, it's a pretty movie with an amazing soundtrack, and not incredible otherwise. But in that light, the original series was also just a melodramatic take on mecha anime with a low budget and a weird ending. The brilliance of Eva is always how it relates to the real world via its social commentary, and now how it relates to itself as a franchise. NGE as a cultural phenomenon turned out to be about the polar loving opposite of what Anno was hoping for, and EoE can obviously be seen as his reaction to the death threats, Asuka/Rei becoming wank material, and generally how many people missed the whole loving point. Shinji literally says that he doesn't care what happens to the world when he's doing his Super Evangelion bit. It's an intentional reference to how many super robot pilots will go "I don't care about the consequences, courage will turn 0 into 100%" only in this case it didn't work out. Shinji knew he was piloting a machine of untold power and he didn't care. We can see this again in 3.0 where, even with full knowledge of the risks, he does it AGAIN.
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Apr 28, 2013 21:52
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Feranon posted:I wasn't trying to say that he was being willfully reckless, just offering a rebuttal to the characters in the story as well as the segment of viewers who are all "drat shinji he keeps almost-destroying the world!" when he's an angsty teenanger and the world has been mostly terrible to him. I guess I'm saying that even if Shinji was willfully reckless or even spiteful and said "gently caress THE WORLD" he'd be justified, in my opinion. Then I'm pretty sure that's the attitude the Rebuild movies are working against. There are not a lot of people who will go "You had a bad life? Oh, alright then, not caring about other people is fine." I mean Gendo is, at heart, the kind of guy who had a bad experience and decided to gently caress the world to get what he wants. Shinji does not want to and should not want to emulate that fucker. Nobody is saying Shinji is a Bad Person. He is a teenager who makes mistakes. That doesn't mean that he's suddenly free from the consequences of those mistakes. The world isn't fair, but the response to the world being fair shouldn't be "Oh, fine, I give up then, what's the point of trying?" It's an understandable motivation but not one where we suddenly absolve Shinji of what it causes, especially when it harms other people. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 00:30
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Nate RFB posted:I never have and never will fault Shinji for leaving NERV in episode 19. Him staying and just toeing the line would have been insane. Shinji was literally fighting to stop the apocolypse and save the life of every living being on the planet. He left after one of their two pilots had been horribly maimed, so he willingly left them with only Rei and the Dummy Plug. It's perfectly understandable but it still was a selfish response which could easily have doomed everyone on Earth, including himself. Anyone probably would have done it but that doesn't make it a right decision. Feranon posted:
It's possible to be both a victim and still be to blame. Someone who breaks into a house and hurts someone because they needed money because the world hosed them over is an understandable victim, but they're still responsible for their actions as well. "I had a bad life" doesn't mean you're suddenly justified in doing whatever you do even if it hurts others. [s] ArchangeI posted:The problem I have with this is that 3.33 seems to contradict itself. The basic message is "You need to grow the gently caress up, Shinji/Otakus". But anytime Shinji tries anything, the world gets more hosed up as the result, to the point where everyone tells him to please, just stop trying, thanks. What kind of message is that? "You will make mistakes growing up, and it is therefore better not to grow up at all"? Just because you act doesn't mean you're acting in the right way. Shinji made mistakes but he made them because he acted in selfish or self-centered ways. Even rescuing Rei was "I will do the thing that is important to me, and I don't care if it hurts other people." He wants to save one person and didn't care what it meant for anyone else. People are not telling him to stop trying. Shinji can only view his self-worth in the terms of "pilot an Evangelion" (or from a meta-perspective, Shinji can only cling to Evangelion) and what is being pushed by people like Asuka is "hey, move on from Evangelion!" Asuka's hypocriticy in that regards is likely intentional as well. She too is infected by the Curse of Eva, even if she is better about it. Shinji's problem is that he wants to redo his mistakes instead of moving on from them. That is specifically what he is fighting from in the ending. "I want the chance to redo it! I'll do it right this time, I swear!" ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 02:42
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Breaking into someone's house to rob them and, essentially, a veteran child soldier stepping down (is it even without leave?) because his PTSD is crippling his ability to function aren't really morally comparable. Especially if he could reasonably assume the Dummy Plug would render him unnecessary. The last time the Dummy Plug was used it crippled/badly injured/killed (depending on the version we're talking about) one of Shinji's friends because it fought without care or mercy. That is the entire point of why it is a bad thing. If the Dummy Plug had been there in previous fights, Keisuke and Touji and Rei all would have died. Again, it's a perfectly understandable thing for Shinji to do and it would frankly have been out of character for him to do anything else. That doesn't make it the decision that doesn't lead to disastrous outcomes. It doesn't mean that NERV's lovely-rear end leadership isn't at massive fault either but Shinji made the knowing and willing decision to leave knowing the consequences and the current state. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 02:51
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Nate RFB posted:E: I thought it was implied that the Dummy Plugs were directly controlled by Gendo, hence why he was so amused when it tore Eva 06 apart. There's no indication Gendo has any control over it. He certainly doesn't appear to be doing anything like that, and especially as presented in Rebuild, it just appears that it causes the Eva to become a Beast. In the original it's implied that it is using a Rei clone or something to trick the Eva into thinking it has a pilot or something similar (Rei-00 is written on the plug) but that doesn't show up in Rebuild.
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Apr 29, 2013 02:58
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Popehoist posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sqEzIHyYPk Huh, good to know. So yeah, it ain't Gendo. It's the Dummy Plug (or maybe the Evangelion itself?) The quote can only be from an artifical being for the quote to make sense though considering its source.
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Apr 29, 2013 03:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:This is exactly what Misato (and by extension the bridge crew of the Wunder) are telling him. Ritsuko even advocates killing him. The only people who aren't either telling him "give up and never do anything again," "die," or "pilot the robot" are Asuka and I guess Sakura if she's in any way significant. I guess I should rephrase "people who Shinji has reason to listen to." The exception there is Misato but the very fact that she chose not to kill him is a pretty clear indication that Misato's cold attitude is not actually matching her true feelings. Shinji (and frankly everyone) would be better off if Misato could voice that, but if Misato was better about talking she wouldn't be a massive alcoholic and hate-sleeping with Kaji. I mean Misato is the queen of bad decisions. She encourages Shinji in 2.0 and discourages him in 3.0 and both times it's the wrong decision, but that's what Misato does. She's a fantastic battlefield commander and a nice person who is remarkably bad at interpersonal relationships. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 03:12
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Feranon posted:I guess I feel like it's just expecting too much from an individual, especially a teenager, you know? Unless they have an outstanding amount of patience and forgiveness in their heart, a person who has been screwed over so badly in life isn't magically going to care about how their actions affect other people and society in general just because it's the ~right thing to do~ (and the very definition of right/wrong can be argued endlessly, particularly in the context of Eva), they have to have a reason. They have to have a stake in the world and some measure faith in humanity, which can be hard for anyone at times, but especially so for Shinji loving Ikari, where other human beings arguably cause him more pain and strife than the loving Angels do. This goes all the way back to EoE where it was ultimately the machinations of SEELE and the human soldiers serving them that turned NERV into a godawful bloodbath and caused Third Impact. It just seems like everything would have been 1000% better if grown adults in charge of a worldwide paramilitary organization commanding weapons of untold power didn't treat the 14-year-old rookie like a meat puppet and then get mad at him when he inevitably fucks up... and if they really can't save the world without abusing children, maybe the Angels should win. Well, it's a case where it is completely understandable that someone's history has caused them to act in a certain way, but that doesn't change the fact that they are existing in the same world as other people. We can understand and empathize with someone who has had a terrible life and does the only thing that makes sense to their mindset, but when that thing hurts other people, it becomes something beyond their own pain and starts becoming something damaging. Where Shinji is to blame is that he took action with the explicit acknowledgement that he did not care how it hurt others. That, more than anything, is a big part of what Rebuild seems to be about to me. Shinji's suffered and in turn he ended up in a situation where he hurt others. Not with malicious intent but simply through self-interest at the cost of all else, and that's the same attitude that the adults in Evangelion have and which the younger characters seem to reject. Gendo is basically one logical extreme of that mindset, and getting into arguments about "Well, Shinji is more justified" doesn't really matter because Gendo clearly believes his own justifications are enough. I think that Anno as of EoE would agree with you, but Rebuild is specifically a rejection of the EoE mindset. It's certainly dragging Shinji down low but (and the interview from earlier seems to back this up) the eventual ending is probably going to be hopeful and happy. Edit: I should also add that I don't really agree with everything that (at least to me) the film is saying, but just this is how it comes across to me and what it is trying to say. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 03:31
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Paracelsus posted:It seems like people are looking at what Shinji did in 2.22 as making a choice to save Rei at the cost of dooming everyone else. I never really saw that Shinji was explicitly or even implicitly presented with such a choice. The Evas and things like Instrumentality are so outside of his (and similarly just about everyone else's) understanding that I don't see how he could have been aware that what he was doing would cause Third Impact. If you shoot someone who's taken a family member hostage and it detonates a nuke because his heart was triggered to a deadman switch that no one knew was there, you aren't choosing to kill anyone who dies to the nuke, you aren't being reckless, and you aren't even negligent, because the result is utterly unforeseeable. I don't think it was a case of "Shinji could save Rei but doom everyone else" but "Shinji was willing to do whatever it takes to Rei, regardless of the consequences, and didn't consider or understand what the consequences might be." As we see in 3.0, he doesn't agree with that on retrospect, as most people don't. Hindsight is 20-20 and Shinji wouldn't make the same decisions in the same situation. But as we see, he makes the same mistake in a new situation because he didn't actually learn from his mistake. (Also, rather amusingly, what you pointed out is actually the plot of the new Injustice fighting game, and a huge chunk of it boils down to Superman blaming himself for being tricked into setting off the nuke.) Feranon posted:That's fine, because I'm the same way. I understand what Anno wants to say (as much as you can with that guy at least) about otaku, about his journey in life, and about Eva and it's cultural impact. I just don't agree with it entirely or think that it's the only valid basis from which to analyze Eva. Instead of worrying about Shinji's maturity or how he treats others, I'd rather turn the spotlight on the adults in the setting and tear them a new one for being so awful. Most of them have the self-awareness to know that they're awful, too, and they just keep right on truckin'. It's really hard to overstate how much the grownups in Eva just loving suck. If Shinji is a selfish dickwad at any point, he's just following their example. My general feeling is that, especially after 3.0, Evangelion is about Shinji. The adults are terrible people but there isn't a lot to say about them. They certainly suck and they're likely to continue to suck until they die or undergo a dramatic transformation. Shinji (And to a lesser extent the Eva pilots) are the ones who are open to the possibility of becoming something else. There's just not a lot to say about the adults, they've chosen their path and they suck at it.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:12
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Khanstant posted:I see why their version of it seems so bleak. I imagine it less as death and more of an evolution. More in line with a super-organism type thing where all individuals share a collective "body" and have access to everything, everyone's memories, experiences, ideas, etc. I would not want an eternity when I am forever bonded to the dude who writes My Little Pony death-sex fanfiction at the cost of my own individuality. There's not really a more subtle way to put it.
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Apr 29, 2013 22:09
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Nate RFB posted:It's pretty clear to me that, unless the preview at the end was truly supposed to be a big joke all along, that someone somewhere put together a brand new script rather hastily and the only requirement was that it include episode 24's events somewhere. There are interviews hinting at things in Eva 3.0 which make sense after the fact from before Rebuild 1.0 and 2.0 came out. It was pretty likely intended and the preview is just supposed to be Things that happened between the two movies. That or an elaborate joke.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:04
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SHISHKABOB posted:My biggest disappointment with the movie was no Kaji. Though the way they mentioned him, and the fact that they only mentioned him once and sort of in passing, makes me feel like he's been toast for a while. Well, even if Third Impact hadn't happened, it was pretty likely Kaji was dead no matter what based on what happened in the series and the strong implication (especially in the manga) that it was Gendo who killed him.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:15
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I think it's pretty interesting that We still haven't seen the Evangelion Unit-01 since it ascended to godhood. The only bit of it we saw was the eye and that was still spewing god-lasers around.
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May 6, 2013 03:44
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I absolutely can't wait to see how SRW handles this.  It's gonna be hilarious.
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May 6, 2013 23:39
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abraxas posted:Why were there two Spears of Longinus anyways? Was that Gendos doing? And if so, how? Why was Kaworu so convinced there would be two different spears and why was he so distraught when there were two of the same spear? And.. stuff. I'm just too stupid for this franchise I think. All this mysticism Kabalah whatever stuff doesn't interest me in the slightest and I'd rather have some actual explanations or at least insights as opposed to "lol this is all a big metaphor for Anno, the audience and something I already forgot". Maybe I'm just too old for anime tropes these days, I have no idea. I love all this crap and love watching it but I honestly can't make heads nor tails of it most of the time. That part is not actually explained except two of the same spears means Kaworu got his rear end tricked and he realized it.
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May 7, 2013 13:36
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Lyer posted:After thinking about it, what was Gendo's aim at the end of the movie? If the 4th impact got off, all is well? If not, at the very least he got rid of Seele/Kaworu and all the angels? Dude wants to pull off his Impact as near as we can tell but it keeps getting narrowly averted. He must be so pissed off by this point.
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May 7, 2013 19:46
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Abalieno posted:Has anyone considered how the Angels are designed to suck? They have always very blatant weakness and every new angel doesn't really learn anything from the previous attack. This is actually a cliche in the giant robot genre, but Evangelion embraced it fully. The thing to note is that the Evas also have a massive and blatant weakness and the Angels have actually targeted that on a few occasions. (Need for power being the most obvious, but also the pilot's psychological condition, and NERV itself.) It's entirely possible they could have won if the Eva's weaknesses had come out as worse.
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May 7, 2013 21:24
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Sloth Socks posted:But this? These movies? Yes, they're gorgeous and present the techno-pornography of NGE (albeit without irony or self-awareness) in sweet, sweet HD. But, christ, it feels so whitewashed and smeared in the NGE marketing BS & products that followed the series completion. Worse yet, the symbolism comes faster & harder, but is more meaningless amid the glut of teeth-in-earth, spire-from-purple-crater - and then there's the pedophilia. "Curse of EVA" is so nauseating not only because wow, you sure want that one-eyed Asuka, huh Anno/Gainax, but also because the team seems to be deliberating avoiding any maturation of storytelling or an advancement of plot. How great would that have been to have had older characters, after years of conflict? Instead, we have the same poo poo, repackaged, but with cleaner textures. It's storytelling by companies, rather than authors. That is, actually, the exact opposite of what it is. The fact that the Eva pilots are not maturing is a pretty specific commentary on the audience the film is targeting. The Evangelion fans being crazy hardcore people who hate the idea of change has been around for a while and the "curse of Eva" (as a metatextual instead of textual concept) was brought up in interviews before the series began. It's supposed to be weird and kind of gross and anyone who doesn't find the idea not weird is exactly the kind of person who the film is commenting on. Rebuild is exactly the kind of "gently caress you, anime" that you claim to want. The thing is that anime has changed since Evangelion was released (and that too is part of what Rebuild is about) and so how it is going about saying "gently caress you" is different. The concept of unchanging characters has been around since literally Eva first aired. In fact Rei's voice actress actually begged Anno to have her character get married, get older and get pregnant in the last episode of Eva just so the creepy fans would stop obsessing over how she's perfect and unchanging. The fact that the characters can't advance and can't change even as the world drastically changes around them is an intentional choice. I mean the second movie is titled You Can (Not) Advance and the third is You Can (Not) Redo. It isn't subtle about this. If you really think this has no irony or no self-awareness you're basically wrong. v  v
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 00:49
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Sloth Socks posted:See, I'd love it, if the text had a kind of self-awareness or had this metatextual level...but it doesn't. It's Gainax trying to have its disgusting, otaku-attracting cake and still eat it like it's worthwhile art. Creators can say whatever the hell they want in interviews, but as a series of multimillion dollar piece of cinematic productions with these product placements, I'm not buying it. It really doesn't. Nothing I've pointed out is particular esoteric or strange, especially for a Japanese audience member who the film is basically created for. The fact that you don't have the knowledge doesn't make it esoteric because you, by your own admission, have been avoiding the bulk of products made. This isn't deep or complex symbolism. If anything it's painfully blunt and horribly unsubtle. The fact that even you, someone who avoids anime, tuned in to Haruhi fits exactly with what the Evangelion producer talked about when discussing the Curse of Eva. He specifically pointed to Haruhi as an example of "school moe" and how it was a sign that anime has no meaningful future as it stands because of the hyper-focus on selling that sort of thing to adults. Trying to argue death of the author in this case doesn't work when what you're arguing is "there is no subtext because I don't want there to be." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:21 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 01:15
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Sloth Socks posted:So yeah, I shouldn't watch anime. Good to know. Thanks, Anno. Apparently, walking in on Rei naked, again, is a biting critique, instead of rehashing the same trope for the same fans. That is because your viewing is "this is empty" and that's a pretty sad way to watch any media. Even the most casual reading of any media is able to form a better analysis than "all of this is meaningless," even if it doesn't agree with the author's intentions. Even ignoring the interviews there are plenty of examples of textual readings which provide a coherent narrative which is based around a fairly straightforward idea. Again, as pointed out above, the second film is "You can (not) advance" and the third is "You can (not) redo." It's right in the titles. If you're going to ignore the text and just write anything off as "meaningless" than there's nothing that will change your mind, but writing something off as meaningless is the death of analysis. You can't 'read' Rebuild without Evangelion, both as a story and as a product, because Rebuild exists to comment on Evangelion. Even ignoring interviews and director commentary, it isn't hard to read the textual details and come to a conclusion about what the story is saying when viewed alongside the original series. I'm also not arguing that it's a subtle masterpiece. My feeling on Rebuild 3.0 is that it is too blunt and too obvious about its subtext. Freaking Iron Man 3 is a more subtle and nuanced movie than Rebuild 3.0, despite 3.0 being filled to the brim with symbolism and metatextual commentary. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:48 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 01:40
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Popehoist posted:You're getting your scales completely wrong. Scales wrong? In Evangelion? I don't know man, that sounds pretty unlikely. 
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May 16, 2013 19:57
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notZaar posted:Speaking of the collar why the hell didn't Kaworu just throw it away? Why did he put it on? He was carrying the weight of Shinji's sins for him, not absolving him of them. He even says as much.
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May 22, 2013 05:33
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notZaar posted:I don't see why the garbage can couldn't do that just as well. Because symbolically it's a lot more meaningful and in-tone to go "I'll help you carry your sins" instead of "Your sins aren't around anymore."
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May 23, 2013 03:02
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Mari is just completely inexplicable. I hope they have something planned for her besides Maaya Sakamoto collecting a paycheck but at this point I have no idea what it could be considering they've got one movie left and she's apparently just been hanging out with Asuka and the crew without anyone finding her weird.
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Jun 1, 2013 23:35
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I said come in! posted:Yeah but look at how everyone else acts in the Eva universe. She is pretty normal in the grand scheme of things. :P I mean more that nobody is like "who the gently caress are you?" They've all apparently known her for longer than anyone knew Shinji without any issues so if she's secretly going to eat people's faces or turn out to be a clone of Shinji's future child or whatever she's hiding it well.
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Jun 2, 2013 00:37
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Huh. So the Evangelion manga (y'know, the one that's been running for 18 years) finally ended. Shinji takes control of Third Impact and resets the world. Everyone is now living happily in regular Tokyo. Shinji is there trying to get into a high school. He runs into Asuka and has a Cute Moment and Keisuke and has a friendship moment. The last lines are Shinji talking to himself: "Yeah, I'll try my best. It's up to me to find the path I want to take. The way forward might not be straight, it might twist and turn. It might rain, and the wind might blow. But the sun will still shine on the road ahead. My future unfolds forever ahead of me." The End. Happy Ending.
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Jun 2, 2013 08:52
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The ending of EoE is eternally debatable. There's not really any solid answer to it. The best we have is that Anno thought it wasn't a hopeful ending (as he said he intends to give Rebuild an ending with hope in comparison to it), but it's obscure enough you can basically read whatever you want into it unless you're specifically discussing it in relation to other material.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:If you're talking about the interview I think you're talking about, that was Kazuya Tsurumaki, not Anno. I know that is who was being interviewed but I am almost positive he was discussing Anno's intentions there. I may be mistaken tho'
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Jun 4, 2013 17:38
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Captain Invictus posted:Man, 2.22 must've been a real buzzkill for you. I honestly only really enjoyed 2.22 fully once 3.33 came out and I saw that the parts I disliked were something I was supposed to dislike. v vExcept Mari, I still have no idea what the gently caress her deal is.
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Jun 30, 2013 09:20
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Penpen is secretly suicidal. We just don't know because we don't speak penguin. He's like the penguin version of Shinji.
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Jul 1, 2013 01:57
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Zeruel posted:If Pentacost isn't voiced by Gendo's VA I will be disappointed. He is voiced by Dozel loving Zabi who is an even better choice.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:45
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Spiritus Nox posted:Question: How is Shinji saving Rei transgressive? Other than that it awakened unit 1 for Reasons. Shinji wants to save Rei at any cost. Quite literally any cost. He literally goes "I don't care about the world, I want to save Rei." It's the kind of thing that gets yelled a lot in anime but then works out but in the end it isn't actually a good position to take even if it is an understandable position to take.
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Aug 13, 2013 22:46
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Spiritus Nox posted:See, I never really took it that way. I took it more as an expression of how all the 'SAVE THE WORLD' and 'PROTECT HUMANITY' and all the other big picture stuff ranged from either impossible to really grok (and therefore meaningless) to Shinji or at best simply too big a burden for him to emotionally handle. Saving Rei, on the other hand, or Asuka, or individual people he knew and cared about, would be a much more meaningful and comprehensible goal for him. I don't really think he was actually thinking "I will destroy the world if it saves Rei" so much as he was thinking "If I succeed at nothing else, I drat well am going to get this right." It's not as though we have much reason to think he had any awareness of what was happening after he...spirit-dove into Zeruel, for lack of a better phrase. Yeah, but this is a case where Shinji is so determined to get this right, so sure he will get this right, that he does something terrible because he has to do this thing especially because he hosed up with Asuka. It is completely understandable for his character but that doesn't make it a good decision to make. And then he does the exact same thing in 3.0 because he can't deal with the consequences of the last time he made that decision and, unsurprisingly, it goes badly again because Shinji is still focused on "I have to undo my old mistakes." Thus "You can (not) Redo." He is approaching it from the only way he can but the only way he can is still him saying "I don't care about the world, I care about this thing." Which is basically the same mindset as Gendo seems to have, although Gendo's is obviously far more damaged.
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Aug 14, 2013 00:03
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Szmitten posted:This is kinda why I scoff at Evangelion supposedly being an indictment against otaku-ism and commercialism etc. It can be both. It's the same reason you have DC Comics publishing comics which make fun of DC comics. The people doing the marketing are not the same people creating the product.
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Aug 19, 2013 20:35
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Soho Joe posted:"Not extrapolating wildly"? In NGE? I beg your pardon. It totally is. Everything is canon.
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Nov 19, 2013 20:13
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Foul Ole Ron posted:I just finished watching 3.0 and I have to say I am impressed and I like the way they went with it. The specifics are unclear but basically Shinji going full God Mode kickstarted Third Impact. We did not see the specifics or the aftermath but the catalyzing trigger was Shinji and the only reason it didn't go through fully is because he got speared. Even an aborted Impact is bad poo poo for everyone though.
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Nov 20, 2013 02:42
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