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People like to poo-poo the PS2/PSP Classified Information stuff but the reson people take it seriously canonically is because the game is essentially a series of what-if scenarios and the devs/writers interviewed Anno for 8 hours regarding the in-universe mechanics of everything so that they could be less fanfic-y and more consistent with the series. They then dumped the raw info into in-game hackable PC's.notZaar posted:Because I've seen every episode of the TV show and the movies and I don't remember any of that. From what I recall they just made everything vague enough to handwave away any logical problems or plot holes. In episode 21 they explicitly say the Geofront is extraterrestrial in origin so it's not entirely out of left field.
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May 6, 2013 11:49
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Cardboard Box A posted:An interesting question then is, if Rei is made partially from Yui, who is Kaworu made from? Some have suggested Misato's father. It's not as batshit as you think.
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May 14, 2013 15:36
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I don't quite get why a bunch of Gainax dudes are referring to Huaruhi Suzumiya derisively as the symbol of the anime end-times; I always thought it was pretty neat because of how it subverts the schlocky-ness and has a really dry main character that doesn't tolerate the tropey nonsense.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:28
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Arrowsmith posted:I recently watched Ideon: Be Invoked, and the (not sure why I'm spoiling this) live-action waves crashing on the rocks at the very end reminded me a lot of the live-action waves crashing on the rocks at the beginning of the Eva films. Coincidence? Yes. I'm pretty sure that's just a studio bumper.
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Jul 31, 2013 13:20
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Raere posted:In either the series or Rebuild, what is the reason that Kaworu has for going into Terminal Dogma? Seele's intent was for him to make contact with Lillith in order to cause third impact. He believes Adam is in Terminal Dogma, though. What would he accomplish by going down to see his...brother? He's so gung-ho about it in Rebuild. In the series at least, Kaworu is the human vessel of the soul of Adam and was told by Seele (in the directors cut of 24) that they were okay with the Angels winning and that Adam's body was in Terminal Dogma. In a similar situation to EoE where Rei (the human vessel for the soul of Lilith) rejoined with Lilith, it would cause a Third Impact that would wipe out all Lilin and create an Angel ecosystem (like Antartica after Second Impact) and the Angels would take over Earth. Except it wasn't Adam, it's Lilith; Kaworu understands Seele lied and he decides to let Shinji kill him because of the power of love and wanting him to live. It's slightly overcomplicated by a continuity error or two regarding what Kaworu should know but that's pretty much the likely intended gist of it. Rebuild: whatever. Barely remember but they're doing something different anyway.
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Aug 18, 2013 14:15
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RebBrownies posted:Can someone help please EvaGeeks is fine for information but take theory and analysis pages with caution. I refamiliarised myself with the Theory page I'm guessing you looked at and I would suggest ignoring most of that. It's just an error because... Regalingualius posted:I'm thinking just a continuity error, since that contradiction only appeared in the Director's Cut of the episode, hence why it was cut: it made no drat sense for Kaworu to know Gendo had Adam in him, then head down into Terminal Dogma instead of taking Eva-02 and tearing apart what's left of NERV HQ to find Gendo. The directors cuts aren't cut (as in removed) material, it's all new and inserted retroactively to make certain things make more sense, in this case, Seele's link to Kaworu and their intentions. In the process of adding the shot of Adam in Gendo's hand and the monolith scene they completely forgot that the two are contradictory. That or, as I'm starting to suspect, the translation MIGHT (probably not) be bogus and "within Gendo" should be interpreted as "with Gendo" (or "in the possession of Gendo").
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Aug 18, 2013 17:55
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Raere posted:I was under the impression that Third Impact could only be triggered if Adam and Lillith made contact. It's also possible for Third Impact to be triggered if Adam makes contact with Adam (Kaworu shaking hands with Gendo) or Lillith with Lillith (Rei and Lillith)? There are different impacts achieved with different combinations with different outcomes that can be completed or aborted at various stages. Second Impact = unspecified human DNA + Adam's body + Adam's soul Angel Impact resulting in Angel takeover = Kaworu (Adam's soul) + Adam's soulless body Angel Impact resulting in Angel takeover = Angel + Adam's soulless body Angel Impact resulting in Angel takeover = Angel + Lilith's soulless body Gendo's Impact = Gendo + Adam's soulless body + Lilith's soul + Lilith's body (maybe? you'd think not but why else were they there?) + abort it part way through to stay with wife Seele's Impact = someone desirable in control + Adam's body + Lilith's body + Lilith's soul + Adam's soul (somehow) Third Impact = Shinji in control + Adam's body (in Rei) + Liliths body (Rei) + Liliths soul + Adam's soul (somehow) + aborted And Adam and Lilith can supposedly be interchanged with (or interfaced with via) clones i.e regular Eva's for Adam or Eva-01 for Lilith. Also, spears. Except for when it isn't. It's all dumb and arbitrary and not worth thinking about to be honest. Szmitten fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 18:44
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House Louse posted:Second Impact has nothing to do with Third Impact. Second Impact is still an Impact scenario. The scenes in the directors cuts were neither removed or re-inserted; they were created from scratch for Death and were inserted into the Japanese home release of the series specifically to help make portions of EoE make sense (e.g without the shot of Adam in Gendo's palm you have no idea what he's doing with Rei).
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Aug 18, 2013 21:01
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House Louse posted:It seems to have more in common with the other contact experiment (Yui's), given that it didn't involve Angels, Lilith, everyone dying, or tang. Gendo grafting Adam onto his hand wasn't an Impact either. The Second/Third Impact names are misleading. One could argue that the Second Impact contact experiment could be considered an Impact because of it using a real "deity" and the Yui one not so much because it's just a human soul and a Lilith clone but sure, it's semantics. And this stuff wasn't very well planned in the first place.
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Aug 18, 2013 23:02
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This is kinda why I scoff at Evangelion supposedly being an indictment against otaku-ism and commercialism etc. Midjack posted:It is almost always the best thing. I'm frankly amazed they didn't officially license sex toys. Or did that happen when I wasn't paying attention? There's a nudey calendar/book thing I guess, I dunno.
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Aug 19, 2013 12:24
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Phobophilia posted:They only start being giant trolls in 25/26 then EoE then the Rebuilds. You think the Curse of Eva trapping the pilots in the same form for 14 years was an accident and not a metacommentary on the fanbase? It wasn't an accident, but it also keeps the younger inconic characters looking exactly the same age for the benefit of the creeper demographic among other things. I'm being slightly facetious but I find that more believable.
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Aug 20, 2013 01:04
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The dub of Evangelion are kind of riddled with iffy poo poo, they took a lot of liberties with lines (soldier flamethrowing a NERV employee: "aaaaaaaah..."Hit him again" "AAAAAAAAA") and sound effects, and kind of revealed their stupidity in the commentaries. Like, "there's no word for "I" in Japanese", and replacing the sound effect in the transition from Kaji's final moments to a Shinji/Asuka exchange (intended to be Asuka slapping Shinji) with a really loud gunshot because "God I dunno that gunshot sounded so wimpy it sounded like a slap so we got a better one." Bewildering. EDIT: Yeah, Manga specifically but a lot of ADV staff helped so who knows what the gently caress.
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Dec 9, 2013 13:15
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Slime posted:Whaaat. There's lots of words for I in japanese. The problem in translating that is BECAUSE they have lots of words for I with different connotations. It is mindboggling. It's sort reached a meme status and is used as a "factually incorrect Wiki page, needs further amendments" banner on Evageeks.
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Dec 9, 2013 16:36
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The Ask/Tell thread Tell me about your experiences with "Pick Up Artists" has a post about Spike Spencer and I immediately thought of this thread, also to further my agenda to remind you that nearly everyone involved in the dub is terrible  :Whiskey A Go Go! posted:The other one was the guest of honor at a anime convention I volunteer with in 2010. Spike Spencer is one of the biggest North American voice actors and he is really popular among anime fans for playing a whiny teenage boy in Neon Genesis Evangelion. Spike Spencer can improve a convention' profile among other voice actors to get as future guests so we were happy to have him. He asked for a extra plane ticket so that he could bring someone else. What we didn't know at the time is that he was bring his PUA wingman with him. I only figured it out at the staff dinner when the convention was over. Spike and his friend were trying to teach me the PUA ways after serveral beers and letting it slip that I was single. It was weird because they were telling me to say something negative to a hot girl at the bar in order to start a positive conversion. vv I'm just being flippant because I dislike those dubs, don't mind me. Szmitten fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 17:11
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Zeruel posted:I follow a blog on tumblr that was doing commentaries of the Evangelion series, and they posted this tidbit When the dummy plug is activated it features an edited clip (maybe reversed?) of the AI from Colossus: The Forbin Project.
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Feb 16, 2014 15:34
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Wachter posted:It's not just giant robot shows. We're conditioned by macho/hypermasculine tropes that pervade Japanese and Western fiction alike. We expect the "hero" to display an affinity with violence and danger. We expect him to demonstrate his masculinity by selflessly, single-handedly slaughtering his enemies, at which point his love interest will finally reward him with sex. I rewatched Psycho the other day. I'm suggesting nothing one way or the other, but it popped into my head when I read you post. It's like Norman Bates is both of the things you described.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:38
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There are so many myths about the production of EoE and the ending. There's this online video series called Folding Ideas(?) where a guy with a puppet made of cardboard tries to make serious and deep observations/declarations of films, and his EoE video is just a STREEEEEAAAAAM of misinformation. Made him look really stupid. But anyway, the basic order of events is: October 1995-March 1996: The series airs for the first time in a kids slot after Ninja Turtles in the afternoon. Episodes were made sequentially 3 months before their air date, and around halfway the story and ending changed, hence the introspective but cobbled together look of the final episodes. Although it wasn't as explosively successful initially as modern fans would think, Evangelion The Movie was concepted and greenlit before the show finished airing. 1996: Evangelion is re-aired at a later timeslot where it gains a significantly larger audience and following who are loving hyped about the movie coming next year. March 1997: The movie, Evangelion: Death and Rebirth, premieres. Death is a cool summary of the series, Rebirth was supposed to be a whole movie but had to be a preview for another movie because Gainax are known for their timeliness. The abrupt ending of Rebirth is what all the EoE death threats are alluding to, not the series ending. July 1997: End of Evangelion premieres and concludes the rest of Rebirth. 2001?: Directors Cut versions of episodes 21-24 are released on DVD to better tie into the EoE ending. They are new content, not originally discarded content put back in.
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Apr 9, 2014 10:55
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While I know a lot about it, and I don't exactly consider Evangelion a sacred cow, but every single insinuation of a westernised Evangelion (live action or otherwise) just completely repells me. I'm not suggesting that I know better than the people involved, but Eva comes from such a specific place and is so inherently Japanese as gently caress that something has to give and completely loving aggravate anybody who knows the franchise (begging the question of "Why use that property in the first place then?"). Especially not (formerly-?)ADV et al.
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Apr 25, 2014 13:02
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GulMadred posted:Unit-02 was constructed in Germany (NERV 3rd branch), just as Unit-03 came from Massachusetts and Unit-04 from Nevada. These things are supposed to be phenomenally expensive to build and support. The first time that we see Unit-02, it's on a ship being transported to Japan where it will begin its combat assignment. It gets shadier. All of Shinji's classmates' mothers are dead, and that entire class consists of potential pilots with mother-bound Eva cores ready to go.
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Apr 30, 2014 13:55
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Captain Invictus posted:I believe the story is that they showed the hospital masturbation scene to the voice actress for Asuka, asked her to sum up what she thought of it, and then had her say that in the epilogue. I'm no Japanese expert but the fun thing about that line is that she says "kimochi warui". "Kimochi" means a feeling, what you're feeling, a sensation, and "warui" means bad or negative (it's the root word for Wario and Waluigi, bad/evil Mario/Luigi). The "How disgusting" translation is one way to go, as is "I feel sick". The line appears in the first episode when Shinji's entry plug is first filled with LCL and he goes "Kimochi warui"; it's a statement of that "Ew, I feel gross, icky, that's disgusting, I don't feel well" kind of feeling. Weirder fans in the past have used this a evidence that it's also an expression for morning sickness therefore Asuka'a pregnant at the end but that's dumb. Language! 
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May 6, 2014 13:05
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Anime Sandwich posted:Ive watched the series and EoE and im just wondering what was the difference between Gendos plan and Seeles plan. Seele wants Instrumentality to occur to trigger the next step in human evolution by triggering Third Impact and wiping out the plebs and having the elite (themselves) become a god within an Eva unit. Gendo doesn't really care so long as he ends up inside Eva-01 with Yui. Yui got in Eva-01 in the first place to ensure that Shinji would be the pilot so that he would be the one to make the decision, ultimately resulting in a human soul (her) immortalised in the body of a god to prove we existed.
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May 20, 2014 14:13
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That article is bollocks because its source doesn't exist and there currently is no live-action Eva in development because former-ADV is suing Gainax for trying to take the rights back. That and live-action Eva will be loving atrocious for many reasons.
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May 28, 2014 14:05
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Sakurazuka posted:EoE is Anno loving with the fans and putting in a bunch of stuff that people said they wanted in a 'real' ending and twisting it all horribly. Actually untrue. The internet's built this narrative about EoE that's just snowballed into a myth.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:16
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mr. stefan posted:The reason the last two episodes are so minimalist is because their plans got shot down so late they didnt have time to make a proper ending. By all accounts the last two episodes would have involved a gas attack on NERV HQ, which is what set the censors off since, you know, there was a major terrorist attack in Japan around the time NGE was airing that involved sarin gas in the Tokyo subways. Also untrue, it was less an issue of budget and more of time, but Anno also changed his mind and wanted to go all in on the minimalist episode 25 (episode 26 was always gonna be minimalist) and the movie was already greenlit by this point.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:38
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NikkolasKing posted:So how does everyone want their own damned version of Instrumentality? I just know everyone turns to goo and I guess their souls or minds or something all combine maybe? How does Gendo want a version of this, SEELE want a version of this and Yui want a version of this? It seems like it would all be the same thing. It's more about the motives and the specifics. It helps if you don't consider it an objectively bad apocalypse, even if it's horrific that such a thing is being orchestrated. Gendo wants it so he can be with his wife again by any means, which likely includes collateral damage. He doesn't get what wants in the end. SEELE want to get tang everyone in the world, including themselves so they can use the Evas as individual Arks so they come out on the other end as gods and the plebs are a collective puddle. In EoE, as Keel liquifies, he concedes that this is fine too (as far as he knows, Shinji decides later). Yui knew about SEELE's plan and wanted to be a means to throw a spanner into the works by enabling her son to choose, and ultimately allow everyone the choice to remain in instrumentality or to reembody.
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Jul 25, 2014 22:45
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NikkolasKing posted:So wait, did Gendo not know Yui's soul was in Unit 01? I was talking about this on another board and someone said only Fuyutsuki knew about what she did to herself. Their interpretation was that Fuyutsuki hated Gendo and let Gendo continue his scheme to be reunited with Yui knowing it would all be in vain because Yui's soul was in the robot. He definitely knows she's in there. That's why he's always talking to Eva-01, or when they tried to send it out with a dummy plug and it wouldn't go and he's saying "Why are you refusing me, Yui?"
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Jul 26, 2014 13:19
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No joke that's actually really loving succinct and a good image.
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Jul 30, 2014 13:45
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Zahki posted:Not really. Everyone doesn't get their own matrix like fantasy world if they accept instrumentality, you just cease to exist as an individual, it's no different than death. Thats why Shinji's choice is significant, he chooses to exist because you can always improve your circumstances if you exist, choosing nonexistence is a dead end ("Death creates nothing"). I think the creator misunderstood the fantasy world shown in the last episode, that wasn't an example of what it was like goopified, it was showing what could be possible if he lived his life a little differently. I know, the Matrix implication is misleading but the rest of it is on point though. Tracula posted:Okay. I admit I might be wrong here but why is is Seele having Nerv stopping third impact at all if it's what they want to happen? I seriously need to watch this poo poo a third time to actually get it. It's as everyone else said, but also there's literally a checklist of Angels that have to be killed off first. they could ahve doen it before, but then they'd just be a big puddle and the next Angel would just touch an unguarded Lilith, kill everything and gently caress everything up, and there'd be nothing to do about it. Which isn't the best because it trivialises everything before the ending. "All those close calls and dramatic character moments? Just as planned! Buwahahaha!"
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Jul 30, 2014 16:42
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Oxxidation posted:Doesn't the world go pop if an Angel makes contact with Adam, not Lilith? Lilith is down there pretty much as a decoy. Whenever you see Antarctica in the series it's this crazy red landscape and everyone refers to it as hell. Second Impact, sure, was a big explosion, but it also created a small Angel ecosystem that's inhospitable to Lilin. An Angel successfully making contact with Adam will produce a worldwide version of that (which is Third Impact without an Instrumentality). This is slightly hard to achieve given that Adam is a soulless embryo. Honestly, the Adam/Lilith switch and what Angels are actually trying to accomplish with who/what is flimsy as gently caress and they kinda try to have it several ways at once. Kaji calls Lilith Adam when confiding with Misato even though he delivers Adam to Gendo himself. Most handwave it away with "Angels can sense but not differentiate between Adam and Lilith and just head towards it. There's an insinuation when they fetch the spear from Lilith that an Angel making contact with Lilith will do nothing and the whole thing is a lie to ensure NERV employees do their best not to accidentally allow Lilith to get destroyed and gently caress up Instrumentality plans by raising the stakes.
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Jul 30, 2014 19:41
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NikkolasKing posted:But isn't Lilith the one under NERV HQ? Pretty much all the Angels as far as I can recall, excluding the one in that volcano and the one away in the ocean when Asuka appears, head straight for NERV don't they? Well i guess there was the one that just chilled out in space and destroyed Asuka's mind... I'm pretty sure it doesn't. They're drawn to whichever one they sense. The first few were heading for Lilith, the one in the ocean was drawn to the Adam embryo, and every Angel thereafter was drawn to NERV because Adam and Lilith were both in its possession. DrPop posted:I think it's safe to assume that Angels getting into immediate physical contact with Lilith would be A Bad Thing for Humans. However, whether it'd start Third Impact as we witness it in the show and Rebuilds is up for debate. It's weird because of the insinuation that all it takes is a touch for a kaboom, but I think it could be less of a case of touching it and more an Angel having access and control of Lilith and/or potentially destroy it. Or, as I said, nearly every Angel thinks Lilith is Adam and if any of them were to head down they'd see it, try to do any funny business and have the same realisation as Kaworu and go "Well, gently caress" because an Angel can't actually do anything with it, which is perhaps why NERV/SEELE are very confident and brazen about everything. Again, the concepts in episode 24 and Instrumentality afterwards kind of trivialises everything in the series before it and it's kinda not worth thinking about in that level of depth because I'm sure plans changed and they're playing an audience and so forth. ImpAtom posted:Kaworu flat-out goes "oh poo poo, this isn't Adam, it's Lilith" when he gets there. SEELE misled him. They were loving him over.
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Jul 30, 2014 21:23
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NikkolasKing posted:But then what the gently caress is the point? Are you saying Kaworu couldn't have caused Third Impact anyway because he needs Adam and not Lilith to do it? The point was to kill the last Angel. Even if he could start a Third Impact (whether Angels could do anything to Lilith at all is almost explicitly a "Nobody knows" thing, which is author speak for "Don't think about it, this isn't the story we're telling"), it's not one that SEELE or anyone would want because there would be no Instrumentality involved. Impacts and Instrumentality are not the same thing. Second/Third Impact are the same: an explosion followed by the release of an anti-AT Field. Instrumentality is the process that MIGHT come after under the right circumstances or combination of Adam/Lilith/clones/souls where one individual or more attain godhood and rejig the laws of life. Whether he could do it or not doesn't really matter because despite all this chatter Eva isn't a hard sci-fi show, it's very mystical and arbitrary and is all about audience perspective and the characters and their viewpoints. All that matters is that SEELE lied and Kaworu died. I understand the frustration at what the point is, and like I keep saying, the shift in the story into Instrumentality throws the previous 23 episodes under the bus. Most of Evangelion makes a lot of sense if you know it inside and out, some parts of Evangelion are irrevocably broken because of contradictions in the mythology and misremembering and turning a monster of the week show into a progressively deeper thing and surfacing some of the weirder stuff that doesn't entirely gel with whichever episode aired 4 months ago. I know that last paragraph and "It just is" is a lovely response but the reason I keep posting in this thread is because I'm kind of an anomoly in the Eva community in that I've seen and read a lot of poo poo, and know a fair bit by heart, but instead of leaning too far into "Everything has a meaning so fanwank something" I tend to acknowledge "Oh, this is clearly a gently caress up". Eva can be really neat, and it's ambiguity and loving weird distorted mysticism is one of it's greatest strengths, but that ambiguity is also a facade for some tenuous poo poo. Anno's not trolling the audience, Ritsuko wasn't raped by SEELE, and ADV/Manga are bad at their jobs. Just try to enjoy it for what it is. It's not too deep for anyone. Slime posted:Humans aren't a glitch exactly. They were just not meant to be there. Adam landed first and was going to make angels, then Lilith landed and apparently shut Adam down. By jamming a lance into him maybe, since those are apparently designed to put angels into sleep mode. SHISHKABOB posted:the video game crap
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Jul 30, 2014 23:03
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SHISHKABOB posted:I'm sorry I don't mean to be so hostile. My emotional reaction stems from my ignorance of the video game material but that is no reason to get all huffy about it. Nonono, you misread me, the video game stuff literally put an end to that theory for one reason or another. I wasn't digging at you  NikkolasKing posted:Yeah that whole First Race thing wasn't even mentioned in EOE. I thought it was and that it was all my own fault for being so horrifically confused by the movie that I missed all this info. But, nope, it's just from a dumb game only released in Japan. Whichever the flashback episode was when Gendo and Fuyutski go down into the Geofront they make a passing remark that it it's artificial and predates man, and given the presence of everything else it's kinda sorta left open to be what you make of it. The game is a weird little thing because it's all about the lore and the mechanics of the mysticism (of which I just poo-pooed in my previous post) compiled from several interviews with Anno so that they could make a semi-CYOA game and have different scenarios play out and have the information be an unlockable side extra. It's used in the fandom as a "Word of God" canon thing, and some of it's neat and it's a good reference point if someone asks "What's this thing/Why's this", but it's ultimately background stuff that isn't in the show/movies. Again, they're interviewing the dude years after it ended and some stuff contradicts. On the other hand, this: 
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Jul 31, 2014 00:43
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Weird BIAS posted:I'm stupid and can't parse the letters. Pax Anno. Anno is at peace. Because he's blowing your loving mind.
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Sep 18, 2014 09:15
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Original episodes are designed to lead into 25/26, DC episodes are designed to lead into EoE. So, maybe both?
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Sep 23, 2014 13:03
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Amnomia posted:So regarding (re)watching the platinum edition series and movies, what is the preferred order? Episodes 1-24, Death and Rebirth, EoE, and finally eps 25-26? I always like the idea of 1-26, watch Death (stop at the credits) for a recap, then EoE.
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Sep 28, 2014 11:59
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This loving cat. Like most japanese cats it looks really pissed off.
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Mar 15, 2015 18:32
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A Pinball Wizard posted:So this might be an utterly retarded thinking-too-much question, but here goes. Here's a pile of speculation and observations that are actually kinda neat and not fanwanky: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Sandbox_Sequence
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Mar 22, 2015 13:06
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Lava Lamp Goddess posted:So what exactly is this supposed to be? What am I looking at? Why does it have human teeth? hosed up hellscape with design elements like teeth and an iris. You do not ask why in Evangelion. Unless it's something from EvaGeeks that I explicitly remember because I read or argued with someone over or wrote it or something.
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Apr 6, 2015 11:43
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Haven't checked in with this show since I watched it back in high school. For awhile I thought fans had cracked some vague hints in the show, but it's a PS2 game instead. FAR and all that seem pretty accepted here, but how does it reconcile with them being in the show all of... 0 times? In the flashback episode when Gendo takes Fuyutsuki into the Geofront they say it's ancient but it isn't man made. It's a vague insinuation and the FAR aren't the focus but they're not meant to be.
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Apr 30, 2015 09:37
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It is better undefined. And it is undefined in the show. But the games and multi-issue binders of information with "The TRUTH of Evangelion" that they're trying to sell are based on what Anno gave them. It's all ignorable, but if someone asks "What the fucks up with this thing" there's usually an explanation there (that kills the mystery too).
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Apr 30, 2015 17:52
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