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Just finished EoE and the series, after not having seen anything from the series since I was twelve and was shown EoE cold (and it was at least nice to get context this time, and be like not twelve...) Only thoughts right now are: 1. Seeing Rei as a spectral image looking at the body of Misato in EoE, which seemed to be the angle of the view we have in 25/26 where we get the flash of Misato's body. Like we are looking through her eyes in 25/26, and wondering: is that when instrumentality begins? 2. Later in EoE we get a more complete scene of Misato having sex while Shinji is watching, which seemed to line up with when Misato yells "no don't show him that" in 25/26, but we never really see it then, but can only infer. 3. The conversation on the previous page about Rei/ghost in the early episodes of the series brought me back to the first two points.
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Jun 27, 2019 14:06
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I always took the choking to be a momentary thing. He jerks off to her non responsive person in the beginning of EoE(not super engaging or connective), and it ends with him choking her, and her caressing him (different forms of connection and engagement). I think that they are in a different mental state at the end, than when EoE opens. At the end, he's angry and engaged and she's almost being warm (in her own way). It's mental progress, not relationship progress. I don't think we're meant to take away that choking people can really get you invested in a person, but what the scene communicates about each of their states denotes some degree of personal progress with connecting.
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Jul 1, 2019 22:20
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Freud is a weird person to be attached to in the 21st century, it's like getting really into BDSM circa 1939: the interest is worth a study on its own.
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Jul 3, 2019 02:20
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Having read more on Anno's past I'm inclined toward the takes I've seen that say it's less a mecha deconstruction and more tokusatsu with depression. Shin Godzilla seems like it was a real fun opportunity for him, considering.
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Jul 3, 2019 03:25
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this is the first time I've seen anyone say that wasn't what was happening in that scene...how else could you read it? Not that she did have sex with him, but as far as her suggesting it, that's totally what is happening. e: she loving kisses him in EoE and says "there's more when you get back" before dying. It's not really one of those things the show tries to leave hanging a mystery. e: my partner was watching for the first time and we never went back to discuss if anything else but that was happening. She groaned and said "oh god, Misato, no..." Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 18:27
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Wark Say posted:Yeah, it's one of the moments where Misato slips really hard. Like, it's still a "What the hell, Major?!" moment, but given everything that has transpired when that moment happens, you almost pity Misato because, honestly, she's almost as traumatized as Shinji. For me it marks one of the touch-off points to them all becoming at least temporarily "one" because that's totally the "oh gently caress, the adults are falling apart, this is all over..." moment. By the time the JDF is storming NERV in EoE they all feel like children confused and unsure of what to do, or even of consequence. They are all super ready for their greatest wishes to come down in Rei form and take them somewhere warm. Kaji is the only one of those that we didn't really have enough information on to get an idea of where he was coming from, or what his problems were. He's just a bag of ugly male traits presented as is. Misato is to me one of the better (best?) characters upon this rewatching. She's the model for a slightly progressed Shinji, who still has a long way to go.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:31
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Paracelsus posted:It's possible to comfort someone with human contact without sex happening. If she'd hugged him while saying it, would we be having this discussion? Well I wasn't talking about all the times there's human contact without sex happening. In this case it's human contact in an effort (however weak) to initiate something intimate and inappropriate. I mean if someone's reacted badly to you trying to hold their hand in the past, it wasn't because of hand holding. and yeah, a hug would have been different. Lots of people who are friends give each other hugs, they don't tend to lay their hand over someone else's while they sit on a bed together. If she'd done something good instead of something bad then, yes, the discussion would have probably changed. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 20:49
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Ogmius815 posted:I don’t think the hand touching is as clearly distinct from hugging as you suggest. My mom has a habit that I find annoying of touching my hands when she makes a point while we are talking. I assure you she is not coming on to me when this occurs. Just to engage with this then, how do you read Shinji's response in that moment? I mean what is the driving force behind his strong response. Ignoring what her intentions were. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 21:20
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ArfJason posted:i like how she then goes to pen pen for comfort and upon being ignored realizes it's not that she feels particularly attracted to anyone, but that "Anyone will do", which is practically the same thing asuka chastises shinji for in the kitchen scene during EoE I've always read Shinji's response as being informed by his knowledge that she is a lot like him. He knows what she's doing, like others have said the first episode establishes this part of the relationship. Ogmius815 posted:I don’t think the hand touching is as clearly distinct from hugging as you suggest. My mom has a habit that I find annoying of touching my hands when she makes a point while we are talking. I assure you she is not coming on to me when this occurs. your mother is trying to turn you into her Sexual Pen-Pen, hth Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 22:32
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EthanSteele posted:Every single person I've spoken about Eva with has always said its obvious she's propositioning him. Every time I watch it with someone for the first time they go "oh my god Misato noOO" as it happens and these last couple of pages are the first time I've ever seen anyone say they interpreted it differently. Wild. The middle episodes always remind me of the ones in Cowboy Bebop where they are all getting into their groove together. Similar progression downward from there. Although I'd say Eva has probably a more positive/upbeat ending despite all it goes into. Even though I went off the rails more than I should have about it, I was genuinely surprised to find such disagreement about what was happening in that Misato/Shinji scene. I've always taken it to be such a clear demonstration of wrong behavior that I can't really process what the scene means if it's just Shinji rejecting platonic comfort/friendship. It makes the scene about him failing, yet again, even when he isn't. He's struggling and needs help and she totally damages him even more. She's positioned at all these crucial places in the show and fails, because she isn't much more than a broken kid too. To interpret the scene that way almost transforms the role she plays there, and puts the blame on Shinji for turning away. or said better: Soul Reaver posted:
Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 00:44
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lol I just realized one of the handshake posters is the same guy who was stanning for old Jeff Epstein the other day. I just sat and rewatched that episode. Holy gently caress it's not even ambiguous. "Shinji, I'm coming in" "Misato, I'm sad but the tears aren't coming. I'm sad, but the tears just wont come" "Shinji, all I can do for you right now is this" *reaches to place her hand on top of his* *he jerks away* "knock it off misato. Don't Misato" "I'm sorry" *leaves room* Then in episodes 25+26: MISATO: Harsh reality? That's me, isn't it? Of course, just look at me. It's only to be expected. SHINJI: Stop it, Misato! MISATO: Sometimes, I lose all hope for myself! I hate it! IBUKI: FiIth, you're so dirty. RITSUKO: You're pathetic. So I guess that handshake is deeply related to how filthy pathetic and dirty she feels. What a bad handshake. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 01:29
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Well, this is the fault of the creators, in the end. A lot of trouble could have been avoided if they'd just shown her moving on to bone the penguin after being rejected.
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Jul 12, 2019 01:46
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cargohills posted:Gonna be honest here: this still seems pretty dang ambigous! except for the parts before, and after. Even during.
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Jul 12, 2019 02:27
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Luigi Thirty posted:They say in one of the episodes (I don’t remember which) that sunlight is channeled into the Geofront from the surface through fiberoptics. which is neat because we're well into that phase of lighting tech now, albiet at very high cost. e: granted, "neat" as in "we might have rich people living below the surface while the world burns" but still. Interesting is maybe a better word.
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Jul 12, 2019 19:30
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So looking into watching the rebuild films after my rewatch of the series and EoE, I see that the situation for purchasing these movies is about is lovely as it is for the series itself. Amazon looks like a seedy mess of various versions, there's a special edition of 1.11 for 50 dollars but I can't find a normal one except with spanish and japanese audio.
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Jul 13, 2019 16:36
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:It's not contradictory, people just keep repeating the nonsense about "running out of budget" and "Anno hating his fans" despite it having no basis. The interviews aren't that unclear if you take the time to look them up. I mean you see this in reactions to work like David Lynch's too, where some fans say that it's meant to be experienced, its "art", it follows "dream logic" it's "postmodern" and go with that, and another group consisting of two sub-groups convinced the creator loves to "gently caress with" people. Those sub-groups just have different reactions ranging from "Creator is loving nuts, I love it! It's a mess, I love it!" and "Creator didn't know what they were doing and slapped it all together and therefore people think it's profound." I suppose both of those reactions themselves are a person's own response to the work, but it has always seemed to me like going with the idea that it's all an expensive con (whether that's good or bad or not) doesn't really go with the spirit of things from any angle.
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Jul 15, 2019 06:38
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The problem with "being woke" is like using the word "love" in the 60's and early 70's: it's a really narrow term to describe a fight that's lasted centuries. The 90's weren't the 50's, I was a child in the 90's and the adults in my life who didn't prey upon me were very clear about what was and wasn't okay. Kaji never tracked as a good person. The best thing he does is something he doesn't do: engage in Misato's desire to feel defiled. Even then, he's kinda played a big role in why she feels that way.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:39
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I feel like the textual read where Kaji is being depicted as a good guy is the same read where Misato is just trying to be a mother to Shinji on the bed. Which is just a bizarre combination of refusing to believe the show ever tried to be critical of human behavior and also thinking that it somehow still has any value as a show without that. It's cool if people like Evangelion because it's "total chaos" and "a beautiful mess" or "flawed unto becoming fascinating" but if that's a person's read of the morals and psychology then I have to assume they think of psychology in general as a bunch of "mumbo jumbo". To me the show is absolutely nothing if the creators weren't intending to show these people as bad. The only people who are worth saving is the children, the future generation, everyone else is just artifacts in a web of pain. Understanding those adult pains can lead to understanding what the children face as inheritors of the damage adults inflicted upon them. e: also, minimizing Misato's damage (i.e. ignoring the state of HER inner child, and her tendency toward the physical with Kaji, Shinji, etc) means that she's just a dumb woman who likes the bad boys. Which is in my opinion a wrong reading of the show that then deflates the psychological trappings of the female characters until they become tropes. As said above, sometimes you just go dumb for someone...but there's always an actual reason behind why, and that's where the heart is. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 20:35
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I don't know how to respond because I don't know the references, but it sure doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I could understand why someone wouldn't like Evangelion because I haven't talked or thought about it for 15 years until just a few weeks ago. I'm getting a lot of "male responding to male threat" vibes, but I really don't want to learn more about Rick and Morty that I have to. I have yet to watch the rebuild films but everything I keep hearing about them makes me think they are probably not going to be my thing. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 22:32
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kaworu posted:
Just wanted to say I liked what you wrote and felt similarly. I rewatched Eva for the first time since I was twelve this last month and...geez. I'm taking a short break from EMDR sessions right now and I had to bring up with the therapist how resonant the way its cuts and structure were for me after lots of processing, or more accurately how it resembled audio/visual elements of re-processing. Not long after I first watched the series, a suicide close to me shut off whatever more reflective attitudes were developing at that time, and I never went back to the show or movie. I saw the rebuild 1.0 on someone's laptop when I was on the streets for awhile in the 2010's, but wasn't really paying much attention or caring. Watching it last night though, what stood out of all things is Shinji sleeping wrapped in cardboard when he runs away for a bit. Having them show the lived-in parts of Tokyo-3 make it feel all the more a lonely place in 1.0. I found myself much more drawn to EoE than I had been when I was younger. The shots using 35mm film in particular had a heavy emotional vibration. It was a nice treasure box of symbols and terms that I had put away somewhere, long before I really understood them, and it was a real reward to return to that place from such a different perspective. Misato, as you mentioned, was a character that I saw more thoroughly this time around...(probably because I'm leaving my 20's).
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Jul 22, 2019 00:11
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Tythas posted:utada hikaru made a song that was in all three reubuilds "Beautiful World" and the song "Sakura Nagashi" in 3.0 Watching the rebuilds, I now understand why I have heard "Beautiful World" played in some many different anime-related venues 2007-2012. It was like "oh, THIS is where that comes from!"
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Jul 29, 2019 04:27
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