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Wark Say posted:Hey, I'll take what I can get. I imagine that, if any, the final battle should be Shinji, after finally coming to grips with the fact that he hosed up BADLY, that he lost everything he held dear and that he only has himself to blame, how he rides into the battle with a combination of All the while having the words "hint hint" flashing on screen after Shinji gives his big speech about learning how to man up accept responsibility for his mistakes getting on with his life.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:43
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and 
plastered on his face, stepping out of his 
audience surrogate 
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Wark Say posted:Anno just wanted to spread some tough love... that's loving beautiful. That is why I love this show, Shinji is not a character, he is a character study! If Anno intended the show to be like we are assuming and guessing its quite ingenious. Getting to fans to engage with characters (either empathizing or hating shinji)and running said characters through a deep introspective examination, while looking their perceptions of reality. Its almost like its a form of instrumentality itself....
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Apr 23, 2013 13:53
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Holy poo poo balls, just read the manga and fair dues on how instrumentality was handled. If anbody has yet to read them , go so.
Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 08:23
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cafel posted:it's because thinking about his actions would mean thinking about what's motivating his actions and that would be too painful. So he runs away by not thinking. He avoids and escape, the sdat listening is another example. For those in question, this is Annos master troll/point. Shinji represents the man child/otaku/serial escaper who watchs anime rather than engauge with reality. Its why a lot of people hate him.
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May 9, 2013 08:48
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WickedIcon posted:I won't dispute the former point, but I really don't think that's why people hate him. They hate him because he's the protagonist of the show and yet completely non-functional for a good chunk of it. It's like if ZZ Gundam continued with Kamille as the protagonist after Zeta's ending; people would have hated that just as much. True, though by the escapisim point and a certain cycle theory, you could argue that shinji's current incarnation is one born for the death of his old ones. As it is said , shinji makes his own choices now, granted they suck, but he has to learn even when you do, you shoukd still keep making them.
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May 9, 2013 09:08
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but I'm getting tired of people making this mistake. Nah your right its not Shinji that represents the man child, he just acts as he is. Its the anime fans who are said manchildren, hence qhat anno is go I ng for.
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May 10, 2013 15:27
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The early Evangelion episodes are much better (and more important) than anyone gives them credit for. Looking back at them, I think the original series should be essential watching for new viewers, even before the rebuilds. The rebuilds are brilliant, they tie up some loose ends and developed characters in a way that the original series didn't or couldn't. But they lack the progression and the plot development style the OS had. From start to finish the OS had its own way of letting you relate to the characters and explained character traits or plot points which the rebuilds have only glossed over (or left out entirely). Its hard to totally describe, but the tone is definitely different in OS when compared to the rebuilds. Couple this with End of Evangelion and episodes 25-26 (which I call the shows spiritual ending rather than the actual one) the OS is perfect so much so I used to think that the rebuilds were not necessary (the ground hog day theory has changed my mind totally though). Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Aug 7, 2013 |
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Aug 7, 2013 10:55
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By the way, what is the current speculated release date for the final rebuild film?
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Aug 8, 2013 09:39
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jvempire posted:In 2.0 Rei just says she can be replaced, Ritsuko tries stopping Shinji but Misato tells him to go for it. (Really you could blame Misato here, and it explains why she is all Gendo-like in 3.0) In 3.0 Wille are warning him, but Kaworu says otherwise. Basically Shinji is getting hit with contradictory commands at all once, and he tries making a good decision with the extremely limited info he has. But he's just a pawn, and it's questionable if he has freewill with how much he gets manipulated. Someone tried to fuse with somethinganyway that is for sure though the devastation caused by the 3rd near impact is similar to 2.0 so I doubt it was another one after the Shinji/Rei fusion dance. Any one else notice the massive/odd/freaky construction that was in the chamber of gulf, descending on the 4th impacting Eva?
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Aug 13, 2013 14:34
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:On the other hand one of those ludicrously drawn-out shots is one of the most memorable scenes/events in the series, so it's not all bad. I don't know, I liked those drawn out scenes, seemed more realistic in a sense, good contrast to the ultra dramatic battle sequences. Also, the end of Evangelion is without a doubt one of the best endings to a show I have ever seen.
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Aug 15, 2013 11:38
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Phobophilia posted:They only start being giant trolls in 25/26 then EoE then the Rebuilds. You think the Curse of Eva trapping the pilots in the same form for 14 years was an accident and not a metacommentary on the fanbase? What I gathered about the original series and how it took a stab at current anime/otaku following was the way the characters were designed. Shinji is a prime example of this. He is a direct contrast to what a hero is, he is a person who hates conflict and prefers to run and hide rather than be involved in it. Personality wise he is timid and meek and finds all forms of interaction difficult and prefers to escape from his problems rather than deal with them. At a meta level, Shinji is the Otaku(stereotype), the person who prefers fantasy to reality (dreaming to existing) , avoiding his problems and delving into the fantasy of manga/anime (Shinji’s case music) to feel comfortable and relaxed and fawns over characters rather than real life relationships. The end of the Original series and EOE was Shinji’s awakening from this behaviour, he realised to be truly happy he had to stop escaping and stop living in fantasy world etc. Which could be taken as a direct message to the fans or hard core Otaku’s (especially the death threat ones) that there is more to life than anime/manga. Of course this makes curse of Eva more ironic as it still seems the fans are just as obsessed 14 years later… Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Aug 20, 2013 |
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Aug 20, 2013 12:25
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Also Foul Ole Ron you're re-interpreting "otaku" entirely in the terms of the American stereotype of a nerd and then citing incredibly tenuous reasons why Shinji might, kinda-sorta fit them. I'm not buying it. I may be wrong about the motives of the show in regards to a stab at Otaku culture, but there is an irony here seeing as Evangelion is about a character learning to deal with life and take control rather than running away from his problems.
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Aug 21, 2013 09:53
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Watch the director's cut of the series, then End of Evangelion, then the Rebuild movies. The best way I find is to watch the original series up until the first directors cut episodes and then watch those. After that, watch episodes 25-26, then End of Evangelion and finally the re-builds. The original episodes of 25-26 are worth watching, it contains some interesting mind-fuckery and subtext that might help explain certain parts of EOE.
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Aug 22, 2013 09:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The director's cut only changes episodes 21-24. I know, I was saying that he should watch them after the directors cut anyway. Zombie Samurai posted:
It iss meant to represent Shinji's plight. He behaves a certain way and it makes him feel good and accepted, but when this behavior does not work any longer to get him these things he is a lone in the dark building the sand castle he does not know any other way to do things and just keeps going using the same behaviors and feeling miserable Where he is crying and rebuilding the sandcastle. Basically the subtext of EoE was a much shortened and simpler version of episodes 25-26. Looking back I honesty do not see how anyone would get anything that happened in the latter half of EoE if they had not watched the original series. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Aug 23, 2013 |
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Aug 23, 2013 08:54
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MadRhetoric posted:Neon Genesis Evangelion: I Feel Sick Neon Genesis Evangelion:(cicada noises) EDIT: Or Neon Genesis Evangelion: The 19 year Spurge continues Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 09:19
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I just finished watching 3.0 and I have to say I am impressed and I like the way they went with it. One thing I want to check though:when Shinji saved Rei at the end of 2.22, when the resulting 3rd impact he started was stopped, was there a second 3rd impact that was not stopped after that? I noticed this when we heard that unit 6 was automated and that there was a 12th angel sealed in it. Basically after Shinji/Rei were abosrbed into unit 1, there were no active pilots asides from Kaworu left? Hence why the 12 angel got so far as to meld with Lilth? So basically, Shinji wakes up in a world where he or Rei were not alive to kill the 12th Angle, then 3rd impact happened because of this. If so why the gently caress is everyone blaming Shinji? Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Nov 20, 2013 |
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Nov 20, 2013 01:56
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Shinji develops eventually through the final perception of the nature of his reality, that its his own perception that shapes who he is and how he feels. Its a big step for anyone to grasp this, let alone a socially inept PSTD suffering 14 year old. Hell most TV protagonists never learn this, having their hero's journey just be the reinforcing of their character or the learning of a simple lesson. I would argue Shinji should get a bit more credit, by the end of the original series and EOE, despite the trauma and mind fucks, he learns some key truths of human existance. As sad and pathetic Shinji is, he in fact figured out something most people never even begin to grasp.
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Jul 17, 2014 01:42
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DrPop posted:Yeah, and he only had to jack off on one semi-conscious girl to be able to get to that point! Well he did think he was mentally hosed in the head and a awful human being, jerking off over her would not have been thar much of a stretch. This also highlights the main reason Shinji was annoying. He would say to himself "im a wimp and a horrible person", based on things out of his control, then go do something awful and wimpy and say to himself "im horrible this proves it". It is not until the end of the original series that Shinji learns that he is what ever he wants to be, people will perceive him by his actions and he has a choice. Put it this way, you can't have a redemptive arc without making GBS threads in a few beds before it. Its just in EVA its was in EOE and even then it was a ten second sequence. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 11:57
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Ak Gara posted:Basically how good a pilot is, relies quite heavily on how good they think they are. There was no reason she couldn't fight, she remembered "wait a second, I'm loving Asuka!" The rad thing here though it is that her self belief was reaffirmed by the realisation of her mother being with her, it is not a true self affirmation, she has her mothers approval but not her own.
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Jul 17, 2014 13:01
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SHISHKABOB posted:"This also highlights the main reason Shinji was annoying. He would say to himself "im a wimp and a horrible person", based on things out of his control, then go do something awful and wimpy and say to himself "im horrible thos proves it"." Well actually that and a lot of otuko and anime fans also see themselves in the character of Shinji and the resultant hate is their denial/self disgust made manifest and projected on him.
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Jul 17, 2014 13:37
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NikkolasKing posted:
He says after several posts containing a wall of text. Its cool, whats the problem with be hung up on it anyway. Sigh, when is the last rebuild slated for btw ?
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Jul 17, 2014 16:30
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Szmitten posted:Actually untrue. The internet's built this narrative about EoE that's just snowballed into a myth. I prefer thinking that Anno just made EoE as a less obvious rehash of the subtext from episodes 25-26. For gods sake, instrumentality is described several times as death and rebirth, the mini films of the series before EoE were called death and rebirth and Shinji literally sheds his old beliefs and gains enlightenment of a new way of being(choosing his own destiny and loosing his hang ups). EoE is like that bit out of the Simpsons where the FBI are telling Homer his new witness protection name. Instead of the FBI agents, just picture Anno, instead of Homer picture the viewer. But instead of the viewer/Homer not getting he is now called mister Tompson it is that they do jot get the subtext, despite the FBI/Annos repeated prompts and obvious hints. That whole scene sums up EoE
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Jul 17, 2014 17:34
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Talkc posted:I have to say after hearing some of the screams in the sub version of Rebuild for Shinji, i feel the dub will have a lot to live up to. Stuff is haunting. Makes me think of a scene with Tsukasa screaming in .hack//sign. Holy crap but the screams in the sub are much more visceral and well insane really, its why I preffered the subs over dubs. Especially in EoE just as Shinji dream strangels Asuka. Thats a scream of someone who finally just lost every bit of sanity they had. Also Shinji screaming in rage while being awsome in 2.22 ( we all know the scene) is brilliant. In fact all of the end of the film is better in the sub.
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Jul 21, 2014 23:51
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ImpAtom posted:Rebuild 3.0 is entirely about that and how incongruous it is. Rebuild 3.0 basically can be summed up as being, Shinji made a choice, things dont pan out as well as he thought they would, welcome to life. This is the Evangelion way.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:25
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Angels third impact: Mirge with Adam and become something new, or what ever they want. Not sure if its just that angel or all angels that would merge or Tang. Seele third impact: Mirge Lillith with Adam, the Lillim (humans being Lillith offspring) merge along with her and Adam and tang together. Rei here acts like the dummy plug(irony) here allowing Seele to control process. kawrou is Seele's plan to set this in motion when they figure Gendo is not playing ball (though not 100% where the lance figured in the original plan) Gendo's third impact: basically Seeles but has Adam grafted to his hand in order to try control it so as it lets him and Yui be together again. Anno's third impact: to gently caress with the viewer by using sub textual talk about ego death and rebirth as well psychobabble to teach them how to be happy. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 20:29
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Zeruel posted:Truly, the curse of Eva. Curse of life tbh, always thought that was the meaning of Misatos line. Poor Robin,  wish someone or anyone had just asked him if he was ok.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:42
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Sigh, with film the being more than likely out in the year its set, Anno is going to go as meta as he can with this one, like really milk it this time. I fear acid alone will not be enough to comprehend the groundhog-esk, subtextual, fourthwall breaking mind gently caress that this final film will be. Or not, who knows. But I just got this weird feeling, this weird feeling, that it will not be anything remotely straight forward.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:48
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DrPop posted:Goddamn 90 new posts thought something real had come out about 4.0. Sigh, 4.0 is going to be brilliant.
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Sep 18, 2014 01:03
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SHISHKABOB posted:If Mari is anything but fan-service in the final movie then I will literally explode in existential angst. I have a theory shes actually part of Asuka.
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Sep 18, 2014 22:38
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SHISHKABOB posted:There's some picture of like shinji's mom? I think? and there's someone in it who looks like mari ? I forget when we see it, I think it's 3.0. More likely the result of some instrumentality shinanigans. Mari reminds me of the aspects that Asuka had in the original series but not the rebuild.
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Sep 19, 2014 00:02
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Leroy Dennui posted:Mari is a Mary Sue, as in Hideaki Anno's post-therapy self insert. Shinji is representative of the fanbase, so her speech to him at the end of 3.0 is Anno telling us that we suck and need to grow up. Ha, yeah I get this, makes sense.
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Sep 19, 2014 14:15
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Ha well this is new. I can fully expect this not to be explained.
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Nov 20, 2014 12:46
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't know. We see an awful lot of what Shinji experiences during Instrumentality in EoE, and the endings in particular don't sync up well. This or Shinji is taking notes from the Dark tower esk repeat until redeemed process and applying it to Instrumentality, hence the different trip sequences.
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Nov 25, 2014 23:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yeah, there are a bunch of those that feel like they just threw stuff at a wall to see what would stick. I like Kaji as the Hanged Man, though, and Justice-Shinji cracked me up. Shinji would be a better fool, while Lillth is if anything, the Empress. Also Adam/Seele/ is the death while instrumentality is the tower.
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Jan 12, 2015 21:50
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Robotnik Nudes posted:Two is good for the Fool because she's associated with blankness and her name means 0 Midjack posted:A hierophant is a priest, though I don't know what the tarot association is. Kawrou would be more like the hermit, the one who guides. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 04:08
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notZaar posted:The tarot symbolism being meaningless is a perfect match for the meaningless Judeo Xtian symbolism in Eva. Ha, true. The cards original meaning seems to be lost on these cards as the images and characters are just put there for styles sake. Which is a usual for Evangelion.
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Jan 13, 2015 04:13
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Midjack posted:Gantz, of course. That was one hosed up manga.
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Feb 21, 2015 17:36
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TheFallenEvincar posted:Yeaaaah, he even already has a new weird underwhelming ultraviolent scifi manga going (and the people in it sure love Gantz!!!!) Ugh, you left out the loli-bug rape.
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Feb 22, 2015 12:52
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Twiddy posted:Basically that. I suppose the perception of readers up to volume 10 wasn't quite as jaded but the last few years of Gantz had pretty horrible reception around here, and it just got worse as it went. Attempted overly graphic loli monster rape asides
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Feb 26, 2015 00:03
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Avocados posted:Shinji finally made his own decisions after a philosophical talk about watermelons. Bear this episode in mind when you eventually watch the rebuilds.
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Mar 13, 2015 13:20
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