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LateToTheParty posted:End of Evangelion and the Audience Author Membrane: http://blip.tv/foldablehuman/s3e2-end-of-evangelion-and-the-audience-author-membrane-6540094 That doesn't remove the "revenge" context that is inherit in the film, but I don't think it necessarily casts aside the TV series ending. I've always felt that both endings complement each other very nicely, and that both are the "real" ending together.
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Apr 22, 2013 01:39
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Just wait for an actual release by a group. You've waited this long already, what's a few more days.
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Apr 24, 2013 03:07
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I just can't look at the last 15 or so minutes of EoE and not think it's an overall positive message, for both the audience and Shinji. He had to go to the darkest of places, but in the end he reached back towards an existence that at least allowed the possibility of happiness even if it came with pain. I think that if I were to word it differently, it'd be that the TV series' ending comes off as a filtered version of the various developments.
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Apr 25, 2013 03:33
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That's not exactly a Ridley Scott "Deckard is a Replicant" stance. If anything it just seems to state that whatever Shinji decided or concluded ultimately doesn't matter (which I guess is technically true, though it obviously matters on a personal level to Shinji and probably those around him), and even then he's non-committal on the subject. And all of that is strange to me since in the first place, from a literal standpoint without Shinji Instrumentality would have gone on unchecked. I guess technically the "world goes on" in that scenario as well but it's a rather nihilistic and overly simplistic perspective.
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Apr 25, 2013 04:07
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House Louse posted:As far as the subs go, they're the same thing, Renewal is the Japanese name. The only major difference iirc is that Renewal's version of EoE contains a live-action sequence that isn't in the English version. Ah, memories. I actually imported the movies since the Manga DVD releases were so abysmal. I even added subtitles, though I unfortunately learned that I am not cut out to be a fansubber, as I probably wound up watching both Death^2 (a film which I think is quite underrated even for a recap) and EoE a dozen times each over the course of a month to get the timing right.
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Apr 25, 2013 13:28
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Ha, well that was something. I would agree that it felt like a lot of style over substance, with all kinds of eye candy and not much in the way of an actual narrative outside of Kaworu's interactions with Shinji. On its own I felt this was kind of a poor movie, but there was absolutely nothing that would dissuade me from getting excited for the fourth film. Also the UTW 1080p encode was either helluva awful or my computer was throwing a fit; saw a ton of artifacts all over the place.
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Apr 28, 2013 01:02
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Given how 3.33 was it would not surprise me in the least if it was never brought up again.
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Apr 28, 2013 01:22
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The Riddle of Feel posted:The question to ask is, "Is this relevant to Shinji's personal journey?" and if the answer is no, it probably won't get much focus. A 26 episode television series has room to develop a cast of secondary characters, a series of four ninety minute films doesn't, at least not in as much detail. I will say that 3.33 has at least seemingly managed to make her not seem like a fanfiction-added character, at least. Though it's not like she actually has any sort of arc in the movie either.
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Apr 28, 2013 01:47
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Two Worlds posted:I have watched three different encodes, and the utw one was the best by a mile. I didn't see any artifacting and there was almost no banding, and I was watching on a professionally calibrated 50" screen.
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Apr 28, 2013 02:43
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I did get a kick out of how much the first 30 minutes or so was a blatant nod to Nadia. Isn't the music when the Wunder launches lifted straight from Nadia, too?
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Apr 28, 2013 03:24
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Its narrative is completely nonsensical, even more so than usual for Evangelion. It desperately needed another 15-30 minutes at the beginning to lead the viewer into the story, and by the end you're left with a feeling of "this was basically a waste of time and all of this conflict could have easily been avoided". There is basically no purpose to most scenes other than throwing out ridiculous word salad technobabble and lots of action eye candy. It throws out all of these crazy twists and wrenches that aren't actually necessary to the main purpose of this film (Shinji meeting and losing Kaworu) and you've left wondering whether any of it was needed at all besides that main purpose. It was pretty, had good music, some fun nods to Nadia, nice action,  Asuka was as great as I hoped/expected, and I do think the Kaworu plot was handled well. But it has nowhere near the legs that 2.22 did. To be blunt, this movie feels like a Matrix sequel. Hopefully unlike those we get a strong finish with the fourth film and 3.33 can be this weird little stepping stone.
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Apr 28, 2013 04:08
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I definitely do not feel "dogmatic" about this film. I don't think it's a particularly well made movie and has a plethora of flaws that likely trace back to the script itself, but it was pretty Evangelion on my screen for 90 minutes and I can't hate that. I am perfectly OK with Shinji loving everything up again by being proactive or the "curse of Eva" being a metajoke even if it's super dumb in-movie, I just think the actual story structure is bad. If you're going to change things up this much, going as far as to introduce basically a whole new cast, you probably should dedicate some time to fleshing them out. Also I could not take Gendo seriously at all in this movie. I was laughing pretty much every time he was onscreen and/or said something. He is more of a caricature or parody at this point.
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Apr 28, 2013 13:58
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UTW's 720p is out (well more like 542p), and yeah it looks a lot better on my PC. I guess I don't usually watch content above 10 Mbps, I would have figured it would just stutter if it was choking my CPU rather than throw in artifacts. I wonder if it's a CoreAVC feature.
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Apr 28, 2013 16:12
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I definitely think the technobabble was meant to be intentionally ridiculous. It was just so over the top.
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Apr 28, 2013 16:46
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Abalieno posted:It's possible, I don't remember if CoreAVC supports H10 decoding. Anyway, CoreAVC isn't anymore the best option, so use LAV: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191
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Apr 28, 2013 20:34
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So apparently the "Nemesis series" are man-made Angels sent by SEELE to attack Wille. Was this ever explicitly stated? Was the Nemesis series brought up in 2.22 and I just don't remember? I only found this out by reading the wikipedia summary. It's frustrating because I wish the movie had fully embraced the swashbuckling tone set in the first 30 minutes and made the Wille vs. NERV/SEELE war a focal point. But they had to get Shinji to interact with Kaworu, and I guess it just doesn't work unless there are a lot of arbitrary/convenient series of events to get him away from Wille first.
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Apr 28, 2013 21:07
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I never have and never will fault Shinji for leaving NERV in episode 19. Him staying and just toeing the line would have been insane.
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Apr 29, 2013 02:31
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mr. stefan posted:It really is a hard thing to blame him for, I agree. It was a lovely situation to be in and a lovely situation overall. However, it's abundantly clear from how - in both versions - he was easily stomping Zeruel even before unit 01 went berserk that had he been there from the start, the situation probably wouldn't have escalated nearly as far. E: I thought it was implied that the Dummy Plugs were directly controlled by Gendo, hence why he was so amused when it tore Eva 06 apart.
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Apr 29, 2013 02:54
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At least in the original series, the Rei is synonymous with total obedience to Gendo (hence why her betrayal in EoE is so shocking to him). So the Dummy Plus being back-up Rei clones are significant in that sense. Gendo IIRC exclaims at one point during the Zeruel battle that Unit-01 is "rejecting him" when it refuses to start up with either Rei or the Dummy Plug. Basically he may or may not have direct control, but it can probably be considered an extension of his will. At the very least, he could have probably deactivated before it crushed the entry plug in 18.
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Apr 29, 2013 03:20
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To elaborate further, the first two movies were "Evangelion: Jo" and "Evangelion: Ha", and then they opted for a "Q" pun for the third one. Jo-Ha-Kyuu is some sort of Noh play structure thing. The TV series had alternate names for every episode too, including the movies. I guess it's just something Anno likes to do.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:32
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Isn't it somewhat unknown for sure at this point whether it'd a double barline (representing "End") or whether it's including the colon, making it an "End-then-Repeat" sign? After all, all of the other movies had a colon in them as well. But of course I wouldn't put it past Anno to be that quirky. I bet they never confirm which one it is, since you could glean quite a different meaning on what to expect between the two symbols.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:43
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I would probably die of laughter if that twist were used. I think it would make too much sense though, and thus probably won't be used.
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Apr 29, 2013 15:56
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notZaar posted:Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too.
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Apr 30, 2013 00:18
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Yeah we were discussing it earlier before 3.33 came out. I think that while he appropriately puts Eva in the context it deserves, I don't particularly agree with his conclusions that Shinji's actions are wholly negative in EoE nor do I believe they are completely divorced from the TV series' ending.
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Apr 30, 2013 02:04
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Rewatching the end of 2.22, yeah a lot of this doesn't make sense at face value. You have to make numerous assumptions and mental gymnastics to make it work. Maybe the scene after the credits didn't actually happen, so it's not representative of what led into 3.33. After all the preview that immediately followed was bogus as well. Or the damage was dealt after the Third Impact, it was just wasn't animated that way and it's a retroactive plot hole that it looks different between the two films. Or that hellish red landscape simply took a while to appear that way and the actual destruction of the city and its inhabitants had happened instantly. 14 years is a lot of time, so I guess it's not inconceivable that Misato and company would eventually lose sight of the fact that many of them were encouraging Shinji. Psychologically it's convenient for them and their cause to have a scapegoat anyway. As for why Shinji is in space... I really have no clue. I guess SEELE/NERV stuck him up there once Wille rebelled, to keep Unit-01 away from them?
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Apr 30, 2013 13:41
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The bizarre landscape aside, I think it should be said that this is not a particularly confusing movie. If anything it's the simplest Evangelion animated story I've seen. There are explanations for most things, even if most of them are shallow or rather dumb or a big meta joke, and everything else is drowning in big action set pieces with technobabble I'm quite confident we are not supposed to treat seriously at all. If there is any confusion in this movie, it's not "why did X happen?" but rather "Anno, why did you want X to happen?". It's pretty clear to me that, unless the preview at the end was truly supposed to be a big joke all along, that someone somewhere put together a brand new script rather hastily and the only requirement was that it include episode 24's events somewhere.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:33
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Abalieno posted:The ending of the TV series represented the ideal of the story Anno wanted to tell. It represents Anno's wish and desire: that Instrumentality works and Shinji fixes his issues because the message of the series itself was understood.
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May 1, 2013 01:50
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Abalieno posted:You need a giant hammer to put the movies and the TV series ending together. I know people desire this, but it's extremely obvious that Anno changed his mind between the TV series and the movies. Negating this would actually negating the interesting part in those movies. Before we got EoE it's possible that we could have taken a different viewpoint on what exactly Instrumentality entailed, but after that film it's pretty clearly meant to be viewed as escapism. A rejection of self-worth and the barriers that make someone themselves; the loss of happiness with the gain of no longer being in pain or dealt with negative emotions. And that isn't at all what Shinji seems to comes to terms with in the end in either version.
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May 1, 2013 02:26
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I would certainly say that the fan backlash, among many many other things, certainly were a contributing factor to the tone of EoE. The absurd number of elements that came together to make this story is probably the most fascinating part of Evangelion to me. The depression, the budget issues, the the fan outcry and corresponding response, the (at the time) unconventional approaches to analyzing its characters and the inherit postmodernisms. It's just so absurd how all of that came to be in one show/movie, and it's hard to think of many other anime that underwent such a trial by fire approach and still came out of the other side.
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May 1, 2013 03:13
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Originally it was going to come out at the same time as 3.0, but that was abandoned I believe well into 2.0's production when they drastically increased the scope and presumably budget for the tetralogy. E: beaten
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May 1, 2013 21:48
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The Director's Cut of one of the later TV episodes, as well as Death I believe, show that Gendo had Adam grafted into his hand.
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May 13, 2013 18:37
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Death definitely had some material which were not in the series proper but were in the DC episodes. It's actually a pretty neat mini-movie and I like watching it before EoE, if only for the cello and violin scenes.
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May 13, 2013 18:51
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I believe that is from the Director's Cut version of that episode. Y'all need to watch the DC episodes, they're good!
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May 19, 2013 15:01
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I don't think Death has all of it, just that it definitely has some of them. I don't seem to remember the above .gif being there, for example. What's also interesting about Death is that they clearly re-animated a few scenes from the earlier episodes. I specifically remember the part where Shinji runs over to a collapsed Rei from episode 1 being much higher quality in Death.
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May 19, 2013 17:26
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For 2.0/2.22 and 3.0/3.33 the difference is meaningless; the first is the theatrical release while the second is the BD release. The reason they're named as such goes back to 1.0, which had to be released twice on DVD/BD to correct some video quality issues (first was 1.01, the second was 1.11). They seemed to like the new name so they've stuck with it ever since. IIRC each BD release has had some added footage or adjustments made, so they're not identical to their theatrical releases.
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May 25, 2013 14:39
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You're going to have a lot of time to kill if you're waiting for 3.33 to get released stateside or for the fourth film to come out, so you might as well go watch the TV series + EoE in the meantime.
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May 25, 2013 22:43
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I find this oddly satisfying after years of rolling my eyes at people insisting the manga was better.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:00
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I said come in! posted:I have seen this movie though; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJVtY4s344o and I wish I hadn't.  And just remember, that was the ending that we got in 1997. 10+ years of chewing on that before Rebuild came along. E: If it wasn't clear I like End of Eva a whole lot. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 04:08
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I've always felt EoE was ultimately a positive message. Shinji succumbs to his deepest failings, but he still prefers that individuality over the murkiness of instrumentality.
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Jun 4, 2013 15:18
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 20:37 |
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PonchAxis posted:So I just finished the entire series (except for the rebuild movies) and goddamn as a story about depression and overcoming it, it's pretty good I feel. I don't know what to think of EoE to be honest but I guess I enjoyed it if I think it runs parallel with the tv shows ending. Anyways I haven't really read up much about the rebuild movies but how good are they?
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Jun 5, 2013 22:31
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