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Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Countblanc posted:

To switch topics and steal from another derail (also from the board game thread; we're just really noisy in there), I'm wondering what the future of traditional gaming journalism is going to morph into. TGs are a much more niche hobby than video games - Even with their growing acceptance, board games just aren't really a media in the way video games, movies, or television. You aren't going to read scholarly papers on how the violent themes in Ameritrash games are leading to school shootings.

Much like video games, the people who are most involved in the journalism aspects are fans, and basically none of them make a living off of it like you might scrape by working for Kotaku. What's more, the biggest board game site (Boardgamegeek) is filled to the brim with fan reviews of games, but very little in the way of actual commentary. There's also no established language for discussing them critically like you would have with everything from books to tea; In the BG thread people were just saying that "fun" gets thrown around a ton, and can mean anything from being synonymous with lightweight fast games (which some people took issue with, since it implicitly states that longer, meatier games aren't fun) to just meaning "I enjoyed my time playing this" (without really discussing how much of it was facilitated by the game vs how much was the people it was played with, or what other games they might enjoy). And the problems don't stop at "fun," there's arguments about if games are even things that can or should be discussed critically, since the objective of 99.9% of games is to end with the players having enjoyed the last 10 minutes/hours and who are we to say that Fakey McHypothetical's group of totally-real people just adore Space Pirate Ninja Catgirls so since three people like it you can't technically say it's objectively bad.

I'm really excited to see where the new SU&SD site/project goes, since their stated goal is to basically be THE place for board game related media and critique.

e: I admit that I don't know a ton regarding RPGs and mostly stick to board games, so if someone wants to discuss that feel free!

To respond to this- half of the reason Board Games are a thing in the last decade (especially in the US) can be tied to the support it receives from evangelical-lite groups and families: 7th Heaven's characters said that you had to play board games together to be a family.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2013 21:34

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# ¿ Apr 16, 2024 17:07

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

The FTC is now coming for failed Kickstarters.

quote:

Crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter have helped launch a lot of nerdy gaming success stories. Politically incorrect party game "Cards Against Humanity" was an early success story that went on to form a sort of mini-empire. Cooperative survival game series "Zombicide" is now fulfilling orders to supporters of its third separate campaign. And one of the most funded projects of all time is a card game called "Exploding Kittens" that was co-created by a popular Web comic artist and is expected to ship later this summer.

But in its first ever enforcement action against a crowdfunded project, the Federal Trade Commission went after a board game project gone wrong.

When "The Doom That Came to Atlantic City" hit Kickstarter in May 2012, it looked like a solid investment. Players would take the role of the Great Old Ones, the otherworldly villains of popular horror writer H.P. Lovecraft's mythos, as they wreaked havoc on Atlantic City on a board that closely resembled Monopoly.

It was the brainchild of illustrator Lee Moyer and experienced game designer Keith Baker. Paul Komoda, a sculptor with a long association with the late surrealist artist and special effects guru H.R. Giger, also committed to designing figurines for the game -- and special pewter versions for backers who committed higher amounts to the project.

The campaign initially asked for $35,000, with a $50 pledge to secure a base copy of the game and extra tiers of rewards ranging up to $2,500. After some excited write-ups, it ended up overshooting that goal, raising $122,874 from more than 1,200 people for an average of nearly $100 per backer.

But the company that was supposed to make the game, the Forking Path, never delivered. "After paying to form the company, for the miniature statues, moving back to Portland, getting software licenses and hiring artists to do things like rule book design and art conforming the money was approaching a point of no return," said Erik Chevalier, the man behind the Forking Path, in a June 2013 Kickstarter post announcing the game's cancellation. "My hope now is to eventually refund everyone fully."

At the time of the "The Doom That Came To Atlantic City" campaign, Kickstarter's terms of use said project creators were "required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill." However, the agreement to that rule was between backers and the project creator -- not a guarantee from the funding platform.

But few, if any, supporters of the project ever received refunds, the FTC alleged in a complaint against Chevalier disclosed Thursday that accuses him of deceiving backers of the project. And instead of spending most of the funds raised through Kickstarter on making the game, he spent it on himself, the agency claimed. "In reality, Defendant never hired artists for the board game and instead used the consumers� funds for miscellaneous personal equipment, rent for a personal residence, and licenses for a separate project," the complaint said.

Chevalier has agreed to a settlement order with agency. Under the agreement, he's prohibited from making misrepresentations about crowdfunding campaigns and failing to honor refund policies in the future. The order also contains a $111,793.71 judgment against Chevaliar, but it is suspended because of his inability to pay. "The full amount will become due immediately if he is found to have misrepresented his financial condition," an FTC press release said. The Post was not able to immediately reach Chevalier, who did not admit guilt as part of the agreement.

The agency declined to comment on how the incident came onto its radar, but the project's collapse made a splash on news blogs devoted to nerd culture. In a post on his blog, Baker said neither he nor Moyer ever received money from the crowdfunding campaign -- nor were they informed about the cancellation until the decision was already made.

The enforcement action is a sign that the FTC is willing to extend its consumer protection powers to the somewhat murky waters of crowdfunding. Kickstarter uses an all or nothing type of system in which projects must reach a funding goal during a specific campaign period or they do not receive any of the pledges committed to it. Most campaigns fall short, according to the statistics from the company's Web site, and backers keep their money.

But the 37 percent of projects successfully funded have raised more than $1.5 billion dollars, of which Kickstarter takes a modest cut. The "games" category has an even lower success rate, with only 32 percent of projects meeting funding goals. And projects like "The Doom That Came To Atlantic City" show that not all successful campaigns end up delivering what they promised.

Because often times projects are delayed rather than cancelled, statistics on that category of projects are hard to determine. And that risk is almost inherent to funding passion projects on platforms like Kickstarter.

But that doesn't mean project creators can deceive consumers, according to the FTC. �Many consumers enjoy the opportunity to take part in the development of a product or service through crowdfunding, and they generally know there�s some uncertainty involved in helping start something new,� said Jessica Rich, director of the FTC�s Bureau of Consumer Protection, said in a statement about the Chevalier case. �But consumers should [be] able to trust their money will actually be spent on the project they funded.�

And ultimately, backers of "The Doom That Came to Atlantic City" got at least some of what they paid for: Another company, Cryptozoic Entertainment, rescued the game after Chevalier announced its cancellation and gave all backers a copy. But not, the FTC said in its complaint, "the other, highly-prized deliverables, such as the promised pewter figurines" from the Kickstarter.

Some of this is growing pains, but a lot of it is bad business decisions.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2015 16:35

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Loxbourne posted:

Wasn't there a lengthy article or blog post by one of the Pathfinder editors, detailing how he'd put out a call for a female adventurer in mountaineering gear, and the step-by-step process that saw him shove in some boobtastic wank-art at the last minute?

It had a whiff of self-justification to it, but was a documented example of the problem.

I believe you're referencing the hilarious WIP video of the making-of Chandra Ablaze.

edit: n/m, not as funny as I remember it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gojcuqdVVdA

Gerund fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Oct 31, 2015

# ¿ Oct 31, 2015 04:28

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

thespaceinvader posted:

This is pretty much the future of the industry IMO. Board games are great but designer games cost a bundle and take up a huge amount of space for things which are played relatively infrequently by non-obsessed people. Having a place which basically acts like a rental library where you can get some food and drink and a table, and play whatever they have in store, and buy the things you like enough, is a great model. And it's one which can be elegantly subsided by cash cows like X-Wing, Netrunner, MTG etc.

The big difficulty I guess is that it requires, one way or another, a fuckton of capital investment in buying games for the shelves, and runs a lot of risk of those games losing key components frequently.

A local "nerd cafe" of this sort had to shut down after the land underneath their lease got purchased by a developer, so all the effort they put into remodeling and staffing was wasted, despite being a franchise of a successful business model.

And on the nerdstore tip, I walked into a completely unorganized, still-in-the-unpacking stage nerdstore with a nursery in the corner and the smell of mold in a run down suburb. Apparently, they had been open for four months and still had yet to put all of their things onto the shelves and didn't have Netrunner. Boggles the mind.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2016 19:35

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Alien Rope Burn posted:

We could talk about TG movies.

Man, how hype is everybody for Monopoly? I mean, on a scale from "hype" to "electric"?

Battleship was fine- not good, but fine. If it ends up with being an amazing crypto-satire of the property bubble, arguing along the same lines as The Big Short, I'll buy a physical copy.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 20:46

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

What we need, and I'm not being facetious, is a Netflix for RPGs. A way for the average person to get to the back-bench where some interesting stuff is.

Unless you're also going to stream a quartet of semi-reasonable humans to spend 2 to 3 hours weekly with, you're describing the world's least laudable library.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 22:27

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Nuns with Guns posted:

So what do you guys think about the third party making an oculus rift virtual tabletop featured on Dragon+?

"I mean, you have six friends with this poo poo who'd love this, and I've got six friends with this poo poo that would love this, there must be a huge market for this!" said the socially-isolated disruptor.
"Genius, bro. Millions of dollars headed your way." said the VC.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 15:23

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

FMguru posted:

I honestly think a lot of it came from one of the big groups of early adopters of D&D - the medieval recreators of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

SCA has been around since the mid-60s, and the Venn diagram of SCA to early D&D proselytizers is close to a circle, outside of the toy store shelves with the Red Box.

Its one of the few hobby cultures where spending three to four hours around a table with four to six friends is actually less intensive logistically.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2016 01:11

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Fallorn posted:

Also it's not just RPG's that could use technical writing the L5R (thank god it's dead) CCG had tons of natural language for card text and rules that made some cards not work as you reading them would lead you to think. They also had at one time the story team add a keyword to a few cards that made them unbalanced and was done after play testing was over. I don't think fantasy flight can screw it up a lot more than where it was when the game died.

Whats hilarious is that M:tG has been around for long enough that they already have experienced the exact opposite issue and course-corrected to find an ideal shape to sell $0.75 worth of cardboard for $4.

So M:tG was released around 1993, with card-text (and even rules) that veered towards natural language and "what would make sense-ness". This had its issues, and so the designers leaned into having a very specific, coded language to ensure every effect does exactly what it should. However in 2001 they released a card (known as Dead Ringers) that was completely accurate and made according to the system yet was completely misunderstood by every player that played it.

Now they try to play both sides of the issue of natural language and technical writing, most notably by reducing complexity on the whole and being willing to re-arrange the language around the effect.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 20:41

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

I've seen things as bad if not worse than "old enough to bleed" at nerd dens multiple times over the years. I'm all aboard the Tabletop Gamers Are poo poo train, lets often call out people in the industry and fans for having really bad mental processes.

For example, I am completely vindicated yet disappointed that the 'first nordic Vampire LARP' had publicized issues of nonconsensual actions and really skeevy 'send your photo in to be cast'. We're going to have these issues in the hobby because people don't want to face them; despite being completely predictable, thete are always someone willing to put on the cape for the "moral character" of the organizers and participants.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2016 01:36

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

If he is being paid a living wage by Wyrd- and he wants to keep being paid that living wage by Wyrd- he should have a better, non-lovely public response already planned out. Wyrd is tacitly approving his response at this point by not having someone more well-spoken come to gather the fool make a better one.

The first public response has to handle the issue with tact and transparency. Circling the wagons close and creating an atmosphere of Us vs Them with a fairly obvious otherization of the person criticizing him only weakens his own position that the company is not, in fact, run by misogynist assholes.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2016 05:28

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Mors Rattus posted:

This is the one.

I waiting to see the first "Pro Tour Qualifer" level player or above catch a game loss for saying stuff that gets said pretty much on the regular by people not known as LSV. It's nice to paean to the Judge's authority but the de facto reality is not a lot of regular players are going to make waves in a (weakly) closed society.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2016 14:29

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Gravy Train Robber posted:

Hearthstone's design is laughable but honestly I'll take it over the current state of Magic.

But my point is just that LSV is a decent guy, and to my knowledge Brian Kibler and Day9 both are too. Yes I'm counting Day9 because Wizards pays him to play Magic so in a way that means he's professional.

As the guy that specifically brought up LSV in exclusion to all the other people who are generally considered pretty decent (Chris Pikula is specifically laudable for his impact on the Judge program and cheating in M:tG), LSV is the only HOF-level player that has used his platform to try and push the community out of its toxicity. I don't really feel the need to put anyone else on a pedestal just because they haven't yet been caught doing something lovely.

Hearthstone itself is all sorts of bikini armor bullshit and I've never heard Kibler make efforts to improve the game he works on in the same fashion. I'm perfectly happy excluding him from the list of "decent people"; the community he is directly a part of has obviously needed serious work on its culture when the act of banning women from Hearthstone tournaments wasn't immediately laughed out of the room.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2016 17:35

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Halloween Jack posted:

Yes, but the issue is that the treatment of spells, under this design framework, is that they go beyond "the rules are the physics engine of the world, and only spells violate physics" to the point that spells are physics. D&D is just a step short of saying that fly doesn't allow wizards to fly like birds--rather, birds can cast fly on themselves at will.

Wizard: "Zounds, what forsooth is that rodent with Fly as a Spell-Like-Ability yonder?"
Ranger: *making DC 5 Bird Lore* "its- a bird. They do that."
Wizard: "How witchee these rural creatures be!"

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 21:35

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Bedlamdan posted:

I remember reading, in the back pages of the Dark Horse remake of Conan, that the character was inspired by Howard's fascination with cultures such as the Mongols, the Timurid Empire, and other steppe peoples who were traditionally considered ravagers of Western civilization. He, I think, identified with those civilizations, or at least found other civilizations far less interesting. While it is possible that some of his views on these civilizations were colored by his Western background, he was certainly less of a racist than what would normally emerge from his environment, especially when compared to his contemporary pulp author H.P. Lovecraft.

Whether the essay's views on the objectification of women are correct or not, I disagree with her argument that Conan is meant to be a white power fantasy and I really don't see the connection between Conan in relation to Donald Trump.

You're missing-on-purpose the part where Conan, the hero, was an anglo-coded 'white' person that traveled into that orientalist reduction of those peoples and typically won. Or that the enemy tribes of that very loving white person were also decidedly Not White. Its in the second paragraph. Kinda hard to miss. Howard was a lot of things, including anti-civilization, but "less racist than Lovecraft" is a bar so low it takes out a shovel. Conan is a white male power fantasy that explicitly trades in the myth of the Superior Aryan Race as its core setting element; the Hyborian Age is defined by its lack of the Aryans.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2016 00:12

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

For all of Howard's hatred of civilization, his world-view that we label "the setting" is that the proud aryan race- the Sons of Aryas- is what allowed civilization to manifest in history, and the failures and inherent corruption of civilization around Conan in the Hyborian age was because of a lack of Aryan people.

Like most white people of a whiggish bent, Howard subscribed to a progression of civilization and society, but only if it was both led by and composed of the pure white aryan race. His writing is him prescribing that the failures of civilization is caused by a lack of 'true' Aryans, and is very clearly inspired by the writings of scientific racists attempting to justify actions taken by racists.

So, like, go forth and co-opt that racist brand for your money or happiness or whatever. Just don't lie to yourself.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2016 00:43

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

While I don't think we will ever get beyond the core appeal of Playing A Tolkien, RPGs can definitely do better than push the same Colonialist Pillager Simulation storyline, and eliminating the racial element of your acceptable victims is a good first step.

# ¿ May 20, 2017 16:43

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Hiring one person who has half a clue about the issue you are talking about is why Demon: The Descent has interesting and compelling rules about pregnancy and Werewolf: the Forsaken 1e has dogshit "murder you from the inside" rules for pregnancy.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 22:27

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Ettin posted:

Give me the atomic bees and the space bees and whatever other cool bees you got. Bee me.

Waterfall Bees

These bees were created by the Foreseen Yonticla to pollinate the cliff-side jungles of Jahl, known to explorers as the Vertical Cities.

Their hives take advantage of crude, waxen water-wheel technology to power their Hive-heart, which allows for their drones to fly for longer distances and serves as a sort of rudimentary intelligence, more akin to the modern Friend-or-Foe computer system.

A hive can be bribed with flowers from foreign lands, as the customs of Jahl are hard-wired into their colonies. However, should to betray or show disdain to the Hive, you will be stung with a poison of restless, tossing sleep- something that would not be half as dangerous if the cliff-sides were not a promise of instant death to any who either rolled out of their encampment or was to groggy to properly hold on.

Beware the Waterfall Bees that have had their hive-heart stolen; not only are they a curse upon the one who defiled them, they enact their rage on any who they come across between them and their target in a constant, homing swarm.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2017 19:56

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

The Wyzard posted:

You are not wrong.

The problem, more specifically, is not "separate the art from the artist." It's "separate the art from between one artist and a whole bunch of other artists who collaborated imperfectly on the same work."

If Matt were the only person who worked on Beast, this would be a different question, even in the absence of the present allegation.

I'm pretty familiar with the controversy as it occurred during the Kickstarter and immediately in the aftermath. I'm not familiar with the article you're referencing, but several people have mentioned it so far. I'm likely not quite up to speed on the issue if its as definitive as its been implied to be. I suppose I should track it down and read it before I say anything else.

F&F is more a forum thread than an article but it is pretty drat diffinitive and why people here are extremely comfortable declaring it a game about celebrating and defending the abuse of children.

Beast is so very much a passion project by the man accused of raping a 16 year old that no other designer fully explained WHY the game found it necessary to celebrate and defemd the abuse of children. In fact, I can pull up multiple posts of multiple OP writers establishing that they were not sympatico to the lead writer than has been accused of raping a 16 year old, that they were hoping that future, not-being-written-by-the-guy-accused-of-raping-a-16-year-old books would help expand the game, that they worked on the parts that very explicitly were not about celebrating and defending the abuse of children.

Beast is a preeminent example of auteur theory, but is also unfortunately an example of bad art, and this accusation has not altered these outlooks whatsoever.

I'm certain you feel very welcomed by the presence of a man accused of raping a 16 year old girl in your community. I can only hope that you are comfortable with what your embrace of a man accused of of raping a 16 year old represents to people who are made not welcome.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2017 06:05

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

The people who you- most likely- fear are going to use false accusations as a weapon in the unknowable future, are also the people who are against rape accusations being used against powerful people to begin with; and therefore they are unlikely to do so.

Concern-trolling about this subject, at this time, in response to what appears to be a serious accusation of an adult raping a 16 year old... that is, in fact, kinda lovely.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2017 16:29

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Plutonis posted:

There's indeed people who would love to use abuse as a cudgel dude

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/921840239114461184

Way to quote only part of my post. No obfuscation there.

I don't see the same accusations that are being levied against, specifically, the man accused of raping a 16 year old by what appears to be the victim. I see a completely unrelated blue check dipshit listing a bunch of publications he dislikes and linking to his own website, a site that I am not clicking.

You would have tp be obtuse to see these as the same thing. I believe victims, full stop.

And honestly, why would you follow / not block that dipshit?

# ¿ Oct 28, 2017 19:06

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Plutonis posted:

The point I was making wasn't that he was trustworthy, but that guys like him might start to slander people with abuse accusations!!!

Again, you should believe victims AND not worry about what guys jacked up on gorilla semen are saying.

Its actually really god drat easy.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2017 16:08

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

JackMann posted:

Suleiman's been shitcanned by Green Ronin. They're finding someone else to oversee The Lost Citadel, and won't be working with Suleiman in the future.

Not a huge fan of their public statement. "Court of public opinion," "recklesness." It feels like they're slamming people for being upset about a predator in their midst. I'm glad they did the right thing, but I don't think they're striking the right tone here.

I'm guessing, considering the ad hoc and unsupported nature of their claim of an "internal review" process and counter-claim of CAS being un-involved in a non-masc talent search, they are very mad that someone came with the goods about their friend and coworker that at least never groped them and/or chased them out of the industry with his bullshit.

I mean, no one is in this industry for the money and it becomes really loving scary to the professionals when it starts looking like a reason that some are is because it provides a good hunting ground and safe harbor.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2017 04:12

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

At this point my strong opinions are going to hinge on whether Green Ronin and their promised timeline will counter the specific acusations that they not just shielded a sexual predator from consequences but knowingly put a man accused of predation in a position above non masc writers in their casting couch- whoops I mean talent search.

I don't put it past GR to ignore what this means at the same time they talk about believing victims. But its really sad to see exactly how cheap words are, even from a company that wants to charge money for their writing.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2017 03:36

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

On an industry tip, it is very Geohell for the game industry (tradgame industry) to suffer the whims of a blindly opaque demonitization algorithm.

The guy at the center of this is a twerp and yet unless you physically stop him he is always going to have an audience to watch him scream into the void.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2017 17:13

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Kai Tave posted:

So hey did Green Ronin ever come out with the amazing timeline that explains all that dumb lovely bullshit of theirs yet? No? Cool just checking.

Its been more than a month so I figure the vacation all the important decision makers are on should be up in another four weeks.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 01:26

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

DigitalRaven posted:

Let me clarify something from the earlier post because I was writing in pre-third-espresso mode:

Nobody told/suggested/intimated/hinted or otherwise gave me any indication that I wouldn't be paid for not implementing changes.

It was something that was a pressing concern in my own head, for a bunch of reasons — guilt over the humongous delays I'd caused being a major one — but it was not anything another human being had raised.

Oh, and since I know Holden's reading the thread: Stop covering for your abuser friend you worthless shitstain.

Well, yes, no one has to personally intimate that you won't get paid if you don't implement changes when as part of the publishing approval structure you can very clearly just not pay someone until they implement changes.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2018 01:33

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# ¿ Apr 16, 2024 17:07

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Rand Brittain posted:

A derail from what? The topic is "to what degree should we assume people knew stuff about their co-workers when those co-workers turn out to be bad dudes".

When your coworker develops a product that celebrates and justifies abuse- particularly of children- and then highly restricts critique of said product on the internet forum he moderates.

That's a pretty good bright line, I feel. Very solid "this person has some serious issues that we should not associate with".

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 06:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG As An Industry - Past, Present, Future