Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Would have been pretty hilarious/great if this had gone off into an alternate continuity where Touma is permanently taken out of the picture. Oh well.

For now I'm going to go with "someone is a Fate/stay night fan".

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen


SatansBestBuddy posted:

So, uh... I haven't read the books. Can someone explain WHAT THE gently caress THAT WAS?!?

Big novel spoilers:

There's more than one instance where Touma loses his arm and something "underneath" it, of sorts, takes over and blows the poo poo out of whoever he's fighting. Then he grows his arm back like you saw here. It's still not very clear exactly what Imagine Breaker is, and how that other power relates to it. Depending on who you ask and at what point in the novels you ask it, Imagine Breaker is either 1) a device that absolves sin, 2) a physical manifestation of the Christian idea of purification, tying into the idea of the "right" as holy, or 3) the collective manifestation of the fears of magicians that they will lose their image of a standard world unwarped by magic.

Which also ties into Touma's name. The same pronunciation, written with various different kanji, can mean "the one above God" (which is itself a concept present in the novels), "the one who cleanses God", or other things.


I'm honestly excited to see where it goes from there, though.

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


No but seriously how long until we get a third season of Railgun? This is easily blowing the first two seasons out of the water.

JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


SatansBestBuddy posted:

No but seriously how long until we get a third season of Railgun? This is easily blowing the first two seasons out of the water.

Any season with Gunha will easily be better than any season without Gunha.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

SatansBestBuddy posted:

No but seriously how long until we get a third season of Railgun? This is easily blowing the first two seasons out of the water.
The best part is that there is probably enough material (at seemingly the highest quality in the whole manga's run) that they won't have to resort to an anime-only second half like they did for the first two seasons. Maybe/probably.

Wili
Apr 7, 2010

ppppbbbbtttthhhhhhttppp!


Nate RFB posted:

The best part is that there is probably enough material (at seemingly the highest quality in the whole manga's run) that they won't have to resort to an anime-only second half like they did for the first two seasons. Maybe/probably.

I want an anime-only first half with the railgun-side of the books skipped by the manga. An episode where Misaka's friends stalk/chaperon her fake date with Touma, and a slice-of-life episode played totally straight, set during Angel Fall. Also, more MIKASA/Last Order hijinks.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Wili posted:

Also, more MIKASA/Last Order hijinks.
Could they even get Mikasa Ackerman as a guest star?

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Nate RFB posted:

Chapter 68

Hahahahaha, holy poo poo. Tarezax nails it in one. Shokuhou pulled a loving Lelouch Lamperouge.

E: That was also a brutal finisher by Kuroko, sheesh.

You know the best part of that is I think the real reason Kuroko blocked the knife with her hand instead of teleporting was that she couldn't see poo poo because she just moved into a dark sewer from a well lit building. It wasn't superior tactics so much as "gently caress letting lack of lighting stop me".

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


Oh look, this is a thing.

Is it worth holding out to read this ridiculous series, or should I simply not bother and read a real book?

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

A Certain Magical Index is straight up a bad book. Really cool things happen, but the overall plot is a mess, there are way too many characters, and the title is a complete misnomer because Index is a glorified side character. I'd have said Touma is a terrible protagonist too, but honestly the latest book finally gave him something resembling character development so all I can say about him is that he takes a really long while to get going.

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen


All of that is true, but the really cool things that happen are really loving cool, and I've never read anything more insane and entertaining. That's about the only redeeming thing, though.

vvvv We can be white-knight bad taste bros

Outer Science fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Apr 21, 2014

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008




Speaking objectively, yeah it's pretty confusing and bad, though it has it's share of fantastic moments in the sea of crazy.

Speaking subjectively, it is the best and Touma is the best. Reasoned idealism and punching? I love both those things!

I never claimed I had good taste. I will white-knight this stupid series to the grave

Anyway, this Railgun wasn't bad. Manga really good, and I enjoyed the second season a lot more than the first. The character progression seemed way more natural than the "good anime inter-spaced with weird, shoehorned-in tonal-shift filler" of the first season. I guess animating The Best Arc also helps a good deal.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It's sort of funny how Misaka goes from a decent lead with her own problems, desires, and agency in Railgun to generic tsundere totally dependent upon her big strong male love interest in Index.

Index is bad. Everything on the magic side is really bad. And Touma is especially bad. ITEM and some of the Accelerator stuff are just about the only salvageable parts.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


The series has just gone on too long. Touma keeps adding new girls to his harem with every book, and then they only ever appear in passing. No one gets character development, but the girls in peril are effectively interchangeable plot devices. Well, except for Index, whose entire purpose is to make Touma's daily life miserable for some bizarre reason. What's more, despite it being the basic premise of the setting there are pretty much never psychic vs. magic fights.

However, I do find it rather hilarious that the entire LN series takes place over like 6 months and Touma has been hospitalized on the verge of death like 20 times now.

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen


Really -the- major narrative problem with Index is that Kamachi keeps coming up with new themes and ideas to write about, but instead of creating a new setting, plot, and framework to write in, he just throws them into his flagship series. That series' framework isn't always amenable to what he wants to write about, and tossing in so many different things dilutes the whole work.

Some of the ideas he's explored:

1) The nature of secularism vs. religion, and their inherent similarities
2) Humanity as a collective thwarting the designs of a few
3) The threat of death as a comforting, grounding agent
4) Similarities and differences between heroism and villainy
5) Self-sacrifice by offering oneself as a target of hatred
6) Willed vs. coerced salvation
7) The bounds of morality and how they can be twisted
8) Heroism as seen from different strata of power and influence
9) Commonalities among all those who would be heroes
10) The relationship between effort, providence, good, and evil
11) The nature of the self and identity

And this is just off the top of my head. It's clear that Kamachi has some interesting ideas about the kinds of stories he wants to tell, but instead of writing the different stories his ideas deserve, he thinks "How can the next Index volume incorporate this idea?" Combine this with the fact that he needs to keep the anime-ness of the series going, and you get a mess of cast bloat, incongruous themes, retcons, and a progressively less fallible protagonist who has to be able to incorporate all of those things--to the point where now there are three protagonists because not even Touma can philosophize at people enough by himself.

But then Touma punches an archangel or the President of the United States storms into a mall wielding a shotgun to clear out a bunch of magical terrorists and all is forgiven.

HellCopter
Feb 9, 2012


College Slice

Maybe Railgun is better because there's just less of it, then.

Redcrimson
Mar 3, 2008

Second-stage Midboss Syndrome


Railgun is better because it has better writing. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Edit: Disclaimer - My familiarity with each only applies to the anime adaptations.

HellCopter
Feb 9, 2012


College Slice

Well, it helps that Misaka's power isn't as much of an instant win as Touma's.

Redcrimson
Mar 3, 2008

Second-stage Midboss Syndrome


Well yeah, I'd file not having an overpowered self-insert escapist fantasy main character under "good writing".

I feel like Railgun just has better characterization, better story structure, and more clear-cut narrative goals than Index.

Cubemario
Apr 3, 2009


HellCopter posted:

Well, it helps that Misaka's power isn't as much of an instant win as Touma's.

Electro-magnetism is absurdly overpowered, just look at Magneto, or read up on what it can do. The difference is that Misaka is very young and has yet to even remotely live up to her potential. That's pretty much the only thing stopping her from becoming a demi-god of sorts like Accelerator.

Golden Battler
Sep 6, 2010

~Perfect and Elegant~


Basically, you have to ask yourself if you can forgive poorly written prose for the loving rad ideas it has. If the answer is no, then you're better off just sticking to Railgun and having someone explain the stuff from Index to you. Honestly, experiencing Index through a second0hand source like that might even be the best way to do it.

However, if the answer is yes, then

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



HellCopter posted:

Maybe Railgun is better because there's just less of it, then.
Railgun works better because it trims the cast size down considerably and keeps a (somewhat) steady focus on a core cast. Compare:

--An Index arc has about 50 or so characters, wherein 4-5 characters have importance until Touma (who is almost always one of those aforementioned important characters) needs to punch something and the rest barely manage to get a one-liner in before the arc shoves them aside so the leads can do their work and/or the story can move on to the next arc and straight up abandon them.

--Railgun, by contrast, limits the focus down to 4 primary characters (Misaka, Kuroko, Uiharu and Saten), and has better control (both in management and focus) on the supporting cast. Misaka is the lead and does the most work obviously, but the other 3 primary characters as well as the supporting cast members actually get to do things as opposed sitting back and watching one person do everything.


The best (and most recent) side-by-side comparison of cast management is Index's Endymion movie and the second half of Railgun S. The former throws in cameos for the hell of it and basically goes "Hey hey hey, look! It's [insert Index character's name]! They're in the movie! Happy times! Now let's get back to Touma farting around!". The latter gets the supporting cast/cameos involved in the arc and lets them be active in the story, making for a much better handling of the cast and the arc's ending has a more satisfying payoff.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


Well, Saten's involvement is usually just getting into trouble somehow.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

The most hilarious part about Railgun is that it only really works because Mikasa is barely a part of Touma's life, so she has plenty of empty space to fill in with other stories.

I mean it really says something when the latest girl, over the course of one volume, got more development than almost every other character in the series, including Mikasa if you just look at Index. Hopefully Kamachi will stick with his guns for once and not try and up the scale like he usually does (World War III -> Touma Against Literally Everyone), but I think we all know the odds of that.

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen


I'd actually be kind of impressed to see him up the scale. I don't even know where you can go after (latest LN) literally the only extant things in the universe are the protagonist and antagonist.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


Relambrien posted:

I'd actually be kind of impressed to see him up the scale. I don't even know where you can go after (latest LN) literally the only extant things in the universe are the protagonist and antagonist.

That's not the latest one.

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen


Huh? That's New Testament 9, and I'm pretty sure NT10 comes out May 10th or so. Do I have this wrong?

edit: Oh I guess it started at the end of NT8, if that's what you mean?

JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


BlitzBlast posted:

The most hilarious part about Railgun is that it only really works because Mikasa is barely a part of Touma's life, so she has plenty of empty space to fill in with other stories.

Mikasa's too busy fighting Titans to appear in another series.

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT


Relambrien posted:

I'd actually be kind of impressed to see him up the scale. I don't even know where you can go after (latest LN) literally the only extant things in the universe are the protagonist and antagonist.

I get the feeling Kamachi wrote that after playing Dark Souls.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Chapter 70

Maybe one way this manga could continue after this arc is just focus on Shokuhou for a while? Pretty sure she's unaccounted for in 99% of Index.

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


I feel like I need to read the books to understand the significance of who that sister is, and why that one building was suddenly empty for no reason.

Any news on the next anime?

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT


SatansBestBuddy posted:

I feel like I need to read the books to understand the significance of who that sister is, and why that one building was suddenly empty for no reason.

Any news on the next anime?

Rereading Chapter 60, it appears the building was empty because Shokuhou had taken control of the researchers and disbanded the project.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Accelerator ch.5 is up.

In this chapter: We learn why you really shouldn't go all out after recovering from a serious gunshot wound, how strong a naked resurrected corpse is, and the return of...one of the Sisters. Contains graphic violence against walls.

Stall_19
Jan 2, 2013

Prodigy of Victor von Doom


Where on the Index timeline is the Accelerator manga suppose to take from anyways?

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Stall_19 posted:

Where on the Index timeline is the Accelerator manga suppose to take from anyways?
It seems to take place right after Accelerator is shot by Amai, but Accelerator is not quite fully recovered from the injury yet (Accelerator nearly loses consciousness due to blood loss resulting from aggravating his injury in the latest chapter).

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

I'm just waiting for A Certain Magical Index: This Time Actually About Index.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010


BlitzBlast posted:

I'm just waiting for A Certain Magical Index: This Time Actually About Index.

Its a 4koma. Every frame has Index munching on various foods in the foreground while Touma punches various characters from the series in the background.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Chapter 71, wrapping up the Daihaseisai arc. It's going on break until the "October issue" which would be released at the end of August for some reason? I never really understood the naming conventions for serialization magazine release dates.

Which means I guess that this thread will probably be gone by then if Archives ever get fixed.

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen


Yeah if that happens I might just make a general Toaru thread (or someone else can do it) since that's what this one's become anyway.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


I wanna just say I'm really glad they're making more Railgun, I was worried they'd stop with this arc.

  • Locked thread