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veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


There needs to be a gif of the slapfight.

As for the ESP hacking, she still needs to use a portable computer, I figure she just uses her power to bypass routing, firewalls and other password checks to establish what is basically a direct connection with the data source and any decryption software/key the PC holding the data had. So basically she just Teamviewers into whatever protected PCs. Even physical network separation might not stop her, but proper encryption on the end PCs might. That much protection would be very inconvenient to work with though.

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veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Cubemario posted:

Do they ever explain why they have those speech patterns?

Sort of spoiler for the LNs, the way it works is because every Sister is a member of the MISAKA network, which is a true hive entity(making every Sister basically a neuron), while ALSO being each an autonomous agent capable of thought and emotion. The whole network is basically the sum of all MISAKAs, so when speaking for themselves, the Sisters will assert their own identity whenever they talk.

But really it's just because it's loving moe.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


lodoubt posted:

This could be a pretty interesting fight coming up but *INDEX SPOILERS* Accelerator is well known to be quite a lot more effective with his ESP than Misaka. Usually, espers with broader powers can have their control overridden by someone at the same level with a more specific power trying to counteract them. Accelerator's power is about as general as I can even imagine, and he was able to disperse/reflect Misaka's lightning bolt. I mean we know they both come out of this alive somehow but I have a creeping suspicion that it isn't the evenly matched slugfest that might first come to mind. Like it's sort of inherent from Index that, while it might be VERY hard fought, Accelerator would eventually ruin Misaka in an all out fight. But I'm not actually sure now if she has any way to hurt him even under basically ideal conditions.

Alternatively I'm reading waaaay too much into what was probably a two frame cliffhanger at the end of a chapter.

Everything Spoilers(aka I can't recall which source I got each from):
Accelerator is completely supreme where it comes to combat esper effects. It needs to be noted that while he could completely reverse Misaka Imouto's electricity such that it hurts her instead, with Railgun he had to settle for grounding it out, likely due to his control being limited to touch range(so he could reverse the lightning bolt, but not do anything about it since Misaka will take back control the moment it stopped hitting him). If she fired the Railgun at him however, she'd be quite screwed, since he could reflect that perfectly and kill her in one hit.
He is much less useful in noncombat applications than the No. 2 and No. 3.

As for any teleport-kill related shenanigans, there is a directional component to the teleport vector, he could reflect that too. Same reason why Mental Out can't mindfuck Railgun, once it hits their personal field it stops working consistently.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Some of the tests use more than one clone, you can see one of those experiments being cleaned up in the anime.

As for the original, she can't just dial into the network, because she doesn't operate at the same mental frequency. The clones are only biological copies of her, and mental copies of each other. Both mind and body has to harmonize to actually share power effectively.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


I suspect the early fights involved a onesided murderfest until they learned not to touch him.


Given that those experiments were held in an enclosed room in the labs, they wouldn't have much more time to learn things beyond his immunity to bullets and electricity as well as the fact that touching him is death.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


AtomikKrab posted:

The other thing missed a lot is that the fruits of this were to be later used to boost Mikoto as well. It is mentioned that there would be adjustments to mikoto based off this as well, so the Misaka's get given 0 information about accelerator and have to learn as they go and get brutally slaughtered. Then I guess they upload all the information into Mikoto for SCIENCE or something. They probably wouldn't have much of a problem dumping all the information from the clones into her given their tech the network not being linked to her is likely deliberate.

They could just integrate it into the curriculum, she's in an ESP development program, they can and do tailor such to exceptional individuals(like pretty much all the Level 5s, as well as any rare level 4 powers with interesting implications).

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


The LNs have a bit of trivia on Level 5s and their development.
The seven Level 5s of Academy City had specialized analysis and research facilities created for them. The other students were usually jealous of this, but it actually meant she had to match her schedule to what the adults wanted regardless of when she was supposed to have free time.

And those supplementary Level 5 facilities were not all contained within the grounds of Tokiwadai Middle School. She sometimes had to leave the school grounds and travel to an external facility.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Doesn't matter because people watching Railgun may never have watched Index. The earlier Railgun anime might be a bit more iffy, though I prefer to err on the side of overmarking than under.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Well they are schoolkids, even with superpowers, some of that helps set the tone.

Though VR swimsuit frolics for basically an episode might be excessive.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


bubblegumbo0 posted:


Timelines makes everything easier.

I guess it's missing the later stuff/side stories.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Redcrimson posted:

I would actually love a filler episode where the gang runs into one of the Sisters and Misaka has to comically try to hide her from everyone like a bad sitcom episode.

Only if the stakes are kuroko seeing them. There was this bit from one of the other anime about a Sister having to shoot a teleporter to ge:t away, I recall.

veekie fucked around with this message at 04:37 on May 19, 2013

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


ChronoReverse posted:

Speed doesn't really matter. Not sure why you'd think it would. Accelerator can bend light since it has a vector.

It's why he's that pasty color anyway. Sunlight, pah.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


ChronoReverse posted:

As for the nuke thing, if he were taken by surprise, Accelerator would probably suffocate before finding breathable air again but if he were ready, I don't see why he couldn't expand the protect zone beyond point blank to the point where he'd have a couple minutes of breathable air. He's such a broken character by definition that I sometimes get tempted to read Index to see why people seem to think he's an interesting character.

Or he can hold his breath and jump out of the blast zone. Depends on how fast he can move before running out of air.

For the reflection, I think it's some kind of psychic app running in the background. It's ultimately a very simple process(reverse all directional incoming vectors), and requires nearly no human intervention, so it can happen near-instantaneously the moment it contacts him. Of course, any automated process can be manipulated.

Mainly he grows as a character after the events of Sisters though.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Novel spoilers(from all over, so if you aren't up to date, ignore this): It's been pretty consistently hinted that ESP is ultimately a different approach to magic. Specifically, it's extremely similar to Telesmic magic, which also puts severe limitations on their wielders' ability to use regular spells and allow their users a number of highly versatile abilities, based off a specific attribute each time.
Rather than drawing power down from a powerful entity by imitating them in specific ways, you skip the imitating bit and start developing your own power sources. Five-Over technology meanwhile allows the powers of Level 5s to be imitated in a pretty similar process to calling down magic power from an angel. Add to that Index's claims of some of the scientific theories being similar to magical principles and you get a pretty large implicit picture.

Funny enough, Aleister Crowley was kinda the leading authority on Telesmic Magic before he turned to Science. And he's the Final Boss of Academy City so...


Short version: ESP is basically magic. Only the non-AIM based technology is legitimately Science.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Looks mostly like she's trying to keep her friends out of the dark side of the city, they know she's making GBS threads them but figure to just help her get over whatever it is.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


As a bonus, the science people can't actually do anything about the Railgun going on a rampage with official resources. As a level 5, she is more valuable to the city than the scientists and their projects, they can't do anything to her without reprisals, and unless she gets more inconvenient than she is now, they don't want to up the stakes and threaten her friends either, not when she's mostly been doing data and property damage with no loss of personnel. If she brings her friends in, THEY are wholly replaceable as far as the city is concerned. Level 4s are hard to find, but they aren't exactly unique.
A level 5 performing sabotage is something entirely different from a level 5 fully intent on destroying as much of the city as she can.


Next Episode Stuff
Hence, Meltdowner. As another level 5, she is free of reprisals from actually fighting a level 5, and has good odds of winning besides.

And a minor tidbit from the novels
Besides, they can't do much about Uiharu, she's the one who's been countering Misaka's cyberattacks early on.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


ChronoReverse posted:

The coins are self-limiting. They don't go very far before completely disappearing (from the heat) so if she fires her railgun using them and misses (or over-penetrates), they don't keep going on until it ruins someone's day.

Yeah, mainly the coins cap the maximum energy she can slug someone with, so she doesn't accidentally kill too many people. But ALSO because she's had a lot of practice with the coins, she knows how much power translates to what trajectory instinctively, whereas with other projectiles she'd need to recompute.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Zettace posted:

I wonder if Item is strictly a contract group or do they have direct connections to the head of Academy City like GROUP. For those that don't know, GROUP was a group of espers in Index who were blackmailed into following the orders of Academy City and had a similar structure to how Item worked in this episode (middle man gives the orders and they do it). And yes, it is a really unoriginal name.

Pretty much all of them have connections to the Academy City leaders. Naturally said leaders are kind of a bunch of backstabbing bastards and the various groups also take freelance work as well..

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Parpy posted:

I don't dislike them but, ugh. So much good material to work with in volumes 6 and 7 and yet we're getting more of them? Goddammit. That was my biggest gripe about season 1.

Don't worry too much, Liberal Arts City is more action packed than the school festival arc. It'd do pretty well animated.


Plus plenty of fanservice to boot, so it's a twofer.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Serious Frolicking posted:

Kuroko is technically working for the city. Pretty much every major event in the franchise involves major illegal activities on both sides. Keeping her out of it is pretty sensible, actually.

Add to that Uiharu is also working for the city, and you have both competent friends removed from the equation.

Capability wise it's really an odd group:
Railgun - Superb power, flexibility and finesse, but her personality doesn't help her much when it comes to dealing with the dark side of the city, unless it's something that can be simply blown away.

Kuroko - High mobility and close combat ability, personality also well suited to fighting really. But since she's in Judgement her activity is suppressed.

Uiharu - Apparently the single best hacker in the city, working with Railgun theres probably no system security they can't penetrate. Pretty much completely harmless in combat, plus she's oblivious.

Saten - No skills worth mention other than an uncanny ability to find and jump into trouble. I suppose they need a token normal person.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


JosephWongKS posted:

I'm surprised the authorities let Misaki wander around freely the way she does. Isn't she far and away the most dangerous Level 5 in the city? Accelerator can only maim and kill you; Misaki can destroy your memories and your identity, enslave you, and make you love her for enslaving you. I would have thought that once you discover someone with mind control abilities, you would immediately lock her in a sealed room instead of going out of your way to develop her powers and make her even stronger.

LN and manga stuff: Most of the true higher-ups are in secure, heavily trapped, isolated and/or hidden locations, possibly even under disguise. Misaki can't affect minds she can't see, meaning she has to be within a certain range to be effective. Additionally, she is almost certainly crucial to some of Crowley's plans, almost all the L5s are too powerful and rare to just discard(Accelerator for Level 6 Shift, Dark Matter for Dark Matter technology, Railgun for Radio Noise(and thus, FUZE=KAZAKIRI), all of them for Five-Over technology), while ALSO being pretty much uncontrollable.

Add to that they have developed effective mental protection equipment, and they have reasonable security available to important areas if you also include the possibility of a Kihara using super genius powers to counter her influence. Finally, it's very likely that she had influenced underlings to play down her danger level.


Also I'd rank L5 mental stability about so(at this time in the show anyway): Railgun > Mental Out > Sogita Gunha > Meltdowner > Accelerator > Dark Matter. Accelerator gets better, Dark Matter and Meltdowner gets worse.
When she's the second or third most stable overpowered nutcase, and probably not going to turn the city into a steaming puddle, keeping her around isn't so bad.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


There's a mystery one. I don't think I've ever seen the power or name described.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


tonberrytoby posted:

You should read this manga chapter. It is a slice of life chapter that happens after index/sisters. It doesn't contain any spoilers that weren't in Index. Except that Meltdown's crew survives the arc.
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/To-Aru-K...ation?id=104015

There we are introduced to most of the level 5s.

Best part of that chapter is the Dark Matter imagine spot.

Come to think of it, I wonder if Railgun's Russian hijinks will get animated. It's set well after the Index anime's current point though.

EDIT: Also, in hindsight...where the hell did Frenda stuff all those bombs and igniters. Her outfit doesn't have room for even one of her pocket rockets.

veekie fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Jun 4, 2013

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Bakanogami posted:

Dunno about her time in Russia. That chapter of the comic seems to be referring to some time in the past when she gave a demonstration there, but that's the only time I've heard of it. Unless you mean (very light novel spoilers) when she goes there in the later index novels to find Touma. If they do a season 3 of index I kinda doubt they would be able to get that far, there's a lot of stuff between where they are and there. A fourth season might be able to make it up to there, maybe. Wouldn't be in railgun, though.
Railgun Side Story 2, it comes after Liberal Arts City.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Falken posted:

As far as fanservice goes, I appreciate that Misaka wears shorts under her skirt.

Her given reason is simple, she does a lot of running around, jumping and kicking. drat if she'd flash the whole city while doing all that.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


I hope she washes the teddy.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Clarste posted:

Didn't everyone realize it? The previous episode made a point of "the clients think they know who the culprit is but they can't target her directly because circumstances".

Pretty much why ITEM was chosen. Level 5s sorta outrank most individual researchers in the city, so they need to be able to deny outright setting assassins on one such valuable asset. A fight between L5s though is an internal matter and nobody would have to hang for that.

EDIT:
Probable next arc spoilers:
In the event of Railgun being in danger of death, Academy City is willing to use hypersonic bombers to attack America for an extraction. That's how big a hornet's nest they'd be kicking.

veekie fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jun 9, 2013

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Falken posted:

Please elaborate.

I'd like to see a special forces MISAKA team, sort of like RAINBOW. All of them would have British accents for some reason.

Hypersonic bombers with precision SCIENCE! ordnance used to destroy the entire area with saturation bombing, and engineered SPECIFICALLY to kill everything in the state besides Railgun. Then they'd pick her up and fly her home.
Missing parts aren't a problem, they just want the brain alive. If her friends get roasted, well tough luck.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Dan7el posted:

I just finished the light novels. Which story arc are you referring to here? (Pure LN Spoiler) The Hawaiian Arc storyline?

Next arc and LN spoiler, directly quoting from text.
No. Thinking of the value of the research being carried out there, they should want to protect Liberal Arts City even if it turned into a long drawn-out war. Liberal Arts City had a special position within America. That large institution was seen as necessary for America. The leaders of the military and the senators would not abandon the city easily.

Which meant…

“They’re being pressured,” said someone else. “Someone is applying enough pressure from the side to overcome our influence.”

When they thought about it, that was the only answer, but they could not think of anyone who had enough influence to crush a request from management. No, there were actually a few people within America who were more powerful than management, but all those people were directly benefited by Liberal Arts City. They would not go out of their way to crush their request.

What had happened?

Just as every member of management was thinking on that same question, they heard a slight bit of static.

Normally, an outside line could not directly connect via the satellite. A secretary-like operator would be contacted first and management would need to give their permission before the line was put through to them.

This connection ignored all that.

An impudent voice reached managements ears.

“You seem to be troubled.”

With just that short sentence, every single member of management’s faces twisted into the exact same expression at the exact same time. The expression was one of displeasure.

They recognized that voice.

It belonged to someone who could greatly influence the world even more than management.

That person was the head of Japan’s psychic powers development institution, Academy City.

He was Board Chairman Aleister.

“You seem to be having some difficulties with some attacks from an unknown enemy. If you like, we could send some reinforcements.”

Upon hearing that, all of their thoughts moved in the same direction.

With that proposal and with that timing, Aleister had to have been the one who had prevented the American air force from sending reinforcements. They didn’t know how he had done it, but he must have. It was not normal for any Japanese aircraft to take military actions in American territory. Quite a bit of preliminary preparations had to be carried out before that could even be said as a joke.

“Don’t tell me,” said one of the members of management, “that you are the one behind these incidents. I do not think those Mixcoatls are made from normal scientific technology. We were thinking of using them because we thought they were different from the kind of things Academy City uses. But if they are yours…”

“Of course they are not,” Aleister said in an unconcerned voice.

There was no sign of him being surprised at being distrusted.

“But it is true that you have come into contact with one of the truths of the world.”

“Truths?”

“You could also call it an agreement. At any rate, there is a world that the likes of you cannot understand.”

He was completely speaking down to them.

Clear hate wrapped around the five members of management who had somehow managed to be given special privileges within the country of the world police.

“Oh, right. I have a question for you,” said Aleister ignoring the awkward silence as if to say it was worthless. “If Liberal Arts City itself were to be turned to scraps floating in the sea, would you be able to play that off as a show?”




District 23 of Japan’s Academy City specialized in research in the aviation and space industries. It had countless runways prepared both large and small. In one area of runways, a number of 100-meter airplanes were lined up.

They were HsB-02s, Academy City’s supersonic stealth bombers.

Those monstrous planes could fly through the air at over 7000 kph, so they could reach America from Japan in just under 2 hours.

Those giant bombers were being filed with various types of explosives including special bombs that could destroy facilities deep within the earth and bombs called synchronous multilayer bombs that would utterly destroy only the area designated. That equipment was a variation known as Style 3. With just that, they could utterly annihilate something like a manmade island.

“…So the time has finally come to use this stuff,” said a young mechanic working on one of the bombers. The pilot sipping cold coffee next to him responded coldly.

“I don’t think something on Level A Standby will be sent out so easily.”

“Well, yeah, but…”

“You put that thing on the nose of the plane, right? From the briefing I received, apparently that’s a prototype AIM sensor. It can detect the location of a specific esper within the wide bombing area.”

“So the plan is to precisely bomb while avoiding the areas with the students?”

“That would be nice.” The pilot must not have been able to stand the flavor of the coffee because he flipped the cup upside down and poured the remaining drink onto the asphalt. “Given the performance of the sensor and the height from which we’ll be bombing, only an exceedingly strong and characteristic AIM diffusion field will be detectable. I’d say only something in the Level 5 class.”

“Wait, but that means…”

“I’m pretty sure there’s one of them down there. It seems they want to at least recover the most valuable one, but they don’t seem to care about the others. And even if we could detect all of the espers by their AIM diffusion fields, what about the teachers leading the trip there? Only the esper students emit AIM diffusion fields. …The higher ups clearly have no intention of saving all the others.” The pilot lightly shook the empty cup. “Just pray that loving alarm doesn’t ring.”

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Clarste posted:

You hadn't figured that out already? People make jokes about it constantly. The show does too, if you approach it with the foreknowledge.

Pretty much everything that sparks the incident off happened already. Just slightly differently.

Going off on her own, getting her rear end kicked by an enemy who's stronger than she expected, betraying ITEM to save her own skin only for Meltdowner to show up right after.

Meltdowner really doesn't have any intermediate settings besides kill and maim.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Conot posted:

Its pretty clearly telefraging from the scene where Kuroko collapses a building by teleporting sheets of glass into supporting pillars. Presumably she could teleport those pins into peoples internal organs if she was so inclined, but instead she goes for the clothes.

Being a more or less normal schoolgirl(crazy lesbian aspect aside) in law enforcement, she has to be very careful with power usage so as not to seriously cripple someone. It's not like electricity where she can leave you just mostly numb.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


A L5 version of teleportation would probably have to broaden the concept, most of the L5s are either stupid powerful(Sogita Gunha, full mind control, creation of unobtainium) or work with fundamental forces(Vectors, Wave-Particle duality, Electromagnetism). Teleportation doesn't really meet the former criteria, it's flexible, but not enough, so it'd probably go with fundamental force manipulations. Spatial manipulation could apply, as could a ranged version of Accelerator.

Of course, offensively we know L5s have power resistance amongst each other to some degree, at least with direct kill moves. Mental Out can't control Railgun, while Dark Matter and Accelerator are likely out because they can bullshit anything at all. Similarly Accelerator(LN spoiler) can't just explode Dark Matter on a touch, it came down to a heavy hitting brawl. Personal theory is their powers interfere when doing anything too fancy at point blank.
Besides, the Magic side has established that magicians possess some native resistance to magic. The same process might be in play on the Science side.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Come to think of it, the Touhou references are piled on a little strong here. The exploding army of dolls aside...isn't the card basically acting as a spellcard? Used to clear a horde of mooks too.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


What really brought it to mind was that the word 'danmaku' was actually used in that scene.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Clarste posted:

Dolls, maybe, although the series already has its own self-referential doll-bomb joke. The prism-cards is really stretching it though.

Well, Misaka was thinking, "She can't create a barrage(danmaku)", then Meltdowner pulled out a card and created some danmaku.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Raenir Salazar posted:

Is she actually gay (i.e any evidence she generally finds other women attractive, not just disliking men in general) or more Misakasexual? It'ld be nice if it was the former.

She doesn't seem to care about men or women either way, unless they're Misaka, or potentially a rival for Misaka's affections. She has been known to pursue a Sister maniacally(she had to be shot to get her off the Sister), and wouldn't mind Misaka's mom either.

So yeah, she's just Misakasexual.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Falken posted:

Please elaborate on this. LN?

Naw, just something a Sister discussed with Last Order.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Also she really likes to beat people up and he can take it. Simultaneously he's frustrating because he can't be beaten up that way. It makes him more interesting to her than people who are twitching on the ground after pissing her off.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


JosephWongKS posted:

I guess that counts as a solid foundation for a healthy relationship in anime-land.

Contrast Kuroko, who's been tazed so often she's developed a minor tolerance. Or maybe a minor fetish, it's hard to tell with her.

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veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Lucy Heartfilia posted:

Isn't the end goal of Academy City some Satanism stuff, considering how the boss of Academy City is called Aleister Crowley?

Not Satanism, quite the opposite in fact.
Its based on the invocation of Angels, and since the existing ones are rather stuck in their roles, why not make some. After you can make Angels there's just one more step for a megalomaniac

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