A Certain Scientific Railgun S: Another fripSide promotion

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veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Phobophilia posted:

I just pretend magic doesn't exist and the inherent contradictions of Academy City (giving massive power to individuals yet enforcing a panopticon-like order upon the populace) are simply because the place wasn't built to last and was engineered by maniacs to churn out as much Science as it can before it is inevitably destroyed.

The next arc might give you some trouble then.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2013 13:39

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 10:55

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Dan7el posted:

I didn't watch Railgun Season 1, but I did just recently more or less finish the whole light novel series. I didn't read all the side stories. Here are some bits of information, thoughts, and light novel spoilers regarding Mikoto and Touma:

Bits of Information:

1. As far as I can tell, there is never really any reason given as to why the level 6 project began or is important. My best guess is that the difference between a level 5 and theoretical level 6 is probably like the difference between an F5 and theoretical F6 tornado. Maybe an order of magnitude? We only know the Tree Diagram super-super-super computer calculated how this could happen, and people in Academy City got the project going:
___a. We don't know who will profit or why.
___b. We can assume the project is super-secret because:
______i. Cloning is more or less illegal by international convention.
_____ii. The killing of said clones would also be highly illegal and immoral by any convention.

2. Most of the characters introduced and developed in this Railgun series are not mentioned much in the primary series. I think some of the side stories focus somewhat on some of them, though. Mikoto in fact, is only one of many girls developed in the main To Aru series. She probably gets the most overall development, though.

3. As indicated by a couple of things in this series, there is a "dark side" to Academy City. About half of the level 5's are somehow involved in the dark side, including Mugino who is part of the ITEM team. Mikoto seems to have either side-stepped this involvement altogether, or is totally not interested in it. She generally leads a "good", and "clean" life as a top-member of what is most-likely the top-most all girls middle school in the City.
___a. There is never any indication about how people like Mugino got involved in these dirty deeds or why.

In this universe, there are two primary means of paranormal powers: magic and esper. Now we're delving into the world of light novel spoilers. Note, I will keep my information "general" and not specific as to what happens to any particular individual. This information is all more or less how the author did his world building.
::Light Novel Spoilers Ahead::

1. Aleister Crowley is like a hundred years old or older and possibly the most knowledgeable and powerful magic user of all time. Other magic users hunted him down and almost killed him. The frog-faced doctor (who is also very old) saved his life and together they moved to Japan and developed a new branch of paranormal power development -- espers -- and built Academy City.
___a. Esper powers are a new paradigm designed to possibly supplant magic.
___b. Only the people at Academy City know how to turn someone into an esper. There are some, ultra rare, natural espers called "gemstones" that exist, but the bulk of the espers in existence are all from Academy City and all because of some mysterious process that only Academy City can perform on someone that causes them to become esper.
______i. Touma had this process done to him. Initially, all espers start out at level 0, like Touma, but are given training and opportunity to develop past that.
_____ii. Once the process is performed on a person, that person can no longer safely practice magic. They can perform magic, but it will cause them to injure themselves and eventually die.
____iii. The teachers and instructors generally do *not* have this process done to them. Therefore, they can perform magic. They generally don't.
___c. Aleister Crowley has a hidden agenda apart from the overall development of esper powers. His end goal is never revealed, but I get the idea it has something to do with a development past both esper and magic abilities.

2. The magic side generally can't leave well enough alone and wish for either the total destruction of Academy City and all it stands for or to have Academy City come under their control. This desire is the genesis for the majority of the conflicts Touma gets himself involved with, including taking care of Index, etc.
___a. Many of the conflicts involve evil magic users coming into Academy City only to be stopped by Touma and Company -- often ending in a punch to the face.
___b. Touma and Company do get to travel abroad a bit as well. Touma punches faces all over the world.
___c. Touma inadvertently develops a "Kamijou Faction" -- a group of people who more or less follow him in his endeavors. Both magic and esper groups consider his faction both powerful and threatening. This faction consists of both magic and esper users.

3. While Index herself is fairly idiotic, her importance to the magic-side can't be underestimated. She contains the total sum of all the magical works known -- some 103,000 grimoires. The fact she's allowed to "roam free" at all is significant. The fact those who are "in charge" allow her to live with Touma is significant. He is more or less her keeper. While Index can't willingly manipulate magic, she has an automatic defense mode built into her psyche called the "John's Pen" mode. It's never described how or why she has this mode, but when it's activated, she is no longer herself and it's best to run and hide.

It's kind of a shame that the author doesn't do more with Index because she's actually very knowledgeable and when push comes to shove, she's able to come through on her own. Unfortunately, the author focuses so much on Touma that Index becomes nothing more than a whiney, biting side-kick who doesn't do much and doesn't seem to be worth much.

4. Sister number 10031 is the last Sister that Accelerator kills. Therefore, there are 9968 Sisters alive plus Last Order (Sister 20001) that are very much part of the story. After the Level 6 Project is abandoned, the Academy City sends out all but five or so of the Sisters to various parts of the world. The LN refers to these Sisters as Military Clones. Aleister uses them for various nefarious and not-so-nefarious purposes. Touma encounters a few on his various travels.

I would hope that if there are any further Railgun series seasons, that we'd focus on the large amount of times that Mikoto doesn't spend with Touma. For the most part, he spends most of his adventures outside of her presence; although, she does become more involved with him in the later LNs. Also, I would hope we see more of what the Sisters are up to. We do get some reports of things they've done while following Touma around the globe, but I'm sure there's a gold mine that can be used for series fodder available there.

3-Index, having all the grimoires in her head, technically qualifies as a Majin, a Magic God. Sort of the Magic Side's equivalent to a Level 6 esper. John's Pen is there to control her in the event that she realizes she can use magic and completes the process. It can take over her consciousness and forcibly invoke the state in a controlled manner. Touma is probably one of the only people who can stop her if she DOES become a Majin, now that John's Pen had been broken.

4-The Sisters are acting as the network control basis and the field propagation mechanism for the Artificial Angel project.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2013 16:21

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Raenir Salazar posted:

"Why are you walking away from the cat that is clearly in need of help. Says Misaka outraged."

The best was: "Its a cat. But its named Dog. Huehue."

Schrodinger. Heh.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2013 20:50

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

^^
I'd think it's never been in doubt that Accelerator is a psycho. He's just fighting on the side of the good guys. Doesn't change who he is.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2013 08:50

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

It more or less tells you what happens already. People who go against the dark side of the city are never heard of again. Depending on their luck this might be complete servitude, lab rat or worse.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2013 20:04

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

AnacondaHL posted:

(13) Why were the Sisters okay with showing Touma all of the clones and explaining in blunt detail what happened? They gave the passcode check, he failed... and then they treated him like he should know about the experiment anyways...? Was it because of his cancelling ability?

There are multiple possible interpretations.
-The emotional program download worked(the administrator sent out a spurious status message to decieve). They now know this sucks and want out, so they get sloppy, allow Touma to find out, and hopefully get something resolved before they're all dead.

-The Sisters were already developing emotions and desires on their own. Hence 'accidentally' meeting up with Misaka Original, having fun with cats and Gekotas. They naturally like Touma because he's a harem protagonist, so they share anything they weren't explicitly forbidden to mention. Particularly, 10032 expected to die that night, so it would be the last time they'd meet. And the cat too.

-The Sisters already wanted out for a while, even if no individual Sister can object, the MISAKA Network as a whole has a sense of self preservation. Completion of the experiment is not conducive to their continued survival, but it is also the only reason they are being kept around at present(consider the logistics of feeding and housing twenty thousand girls who apparently eat like monsters if the ice cream is any indication, before any special needs), so they can't just go renegade even if there wasn't an override in the system. What they can do is following orders to the dot, and no further, attracting the attention of persons likely to intervene.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2013 06:35

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Clarste posted:

I don't think they ever give a reason. It's probably just part of the original simulation they received and they don't want to deviate from it too much. I mean, how exactly does killing "20000 slimes" level him up anyway? It doesn't make much sense, so we just have to assume their models are correct. They're probably just as confused as we are. "Taking orders from a machine" was also a minor theme of the arc.

The idea is to use increasingly difficult combat simulations, with the cumulative combat and power experience of the Network and increasingly varied environment to challenge Accelerator's Vector Control ability and force it to evolve through a predicted series of scenarios. Both the Sisters and Accelerator are evolving through the fight, the Sisters even gained levels fairly rapidly as a whole.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2013 08:25

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Sindai posted:

it always kind of annoyed me how this is something we're told, not shown, because Accelerator seems to be able to slaughter clone 1 and clone 10,000 equally effortlessly. Why is he growing when the only work he seems to do is coming up with creative ways to finish them off?

Actually, they're making him actually need to make an effort now. The first 10,000 seem to be trying to figure out the nature of his ability, whether it works against a wide spectrum of forces, whether it functions on surprise, whether it works against a variety of different attack modes. They could probably have halved the necessary battles if they gave the Sisters an Accelerator dossier.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2013 16:27

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

AnacondaHL posted:

I don't know if that would work, he's already stated that he keeps his ability on reflect by default, and he sure didn't have any problem reflecting the biological mass of 10031's exploding body. Food poisoning seems hilarious though.

Upcoming episode spoiler
He can be affected by ambient gaseous chemical attacks. If there simply isn't enough oxygen in the area he can't breath for example, and his reflection needs to be adjusted to selectively only let 'safe' air through. Filtering out everything but oxygen wouldn't work either, you need a certain ratio to be fit to breath. So using electricity to ionize the air in the entire area might do the trick, since he can't affect the electricity at range either.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2013 17:24

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Regarding the experiment's outcome:
There are two basic things involved here. Firstly, being defeated by someone worthless(from his point of view at least), caused dramatic changes in Accelerator's state of mind. Power progression to a large extent derives from personality traits, and the shock likely has thrown the estimations off. It would cause far more damage than if say, another level 5 or someone from the Magic Side defeated Accelerator, he could still fit that into his worldview of worthy foes and unexplainable forces.

Secondly, Aleister Crowley had a better use for the Sisters than Level 6 Shift. Rather than rely on a single, unpredictable level 6 individual, Radio Noise can be used to manipulate AIM Burst phenomenon through their administrator, and are nearly perfectly docile.

LN spoilers:
Instead what happened was Level 6 Shift primed the pump for both Accelerator and the Sisters. Accelerator could make the shift using a different approach, while the Sisters were sufficiently hardened from the process to make them quite effective esper mercenary forces, further justifying the spread of Radio Noise.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 01:13

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Reivax posted:

I have no idea what the writers were going for with the scientist girl. She disappeared, and nobody seems to care that she did. Just up and vanished.

I figure that was the whole point. She spends a lot of her screentime remarking that people who oppose the city get disappeared.

Then she disappears.
After opposing the city.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 07:25

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

ArchangeI posted:

What? No, the last you see of her is slung over the shoulder of a mook, presumably to be taken to the incinerator or a secret torture prison.

Secret torture lab probably, she's still a high level esper. You don't waste those when you can do SCIENCE to them.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 09:37

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Ability Down fundamentally works through distraction, so yeah it'd do just fine unless Accelerator turned his ears off before it started.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 13:11

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

AradoBalanga posted:

I swear, it sounded like he was about to drop on the city or something, not a vortex of plasma. Seriously, that was some Lovecraftian chanting there.

I almost want to bet it was an ad-libbed segment. The director probably said "Make some gibberish noise that sounds extremely creepy and disturbing as gently caress", and the VA just went with it.

Sounds likely, in the LN themselves there's a bunch of similar gibberish whenever an esper or esper effect tries to do something particularly difficult/crazy.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2013 13:37

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

The range of his vector control was always a little vague. I figure the limited range is a combination of a psychological block and the complexity of the forces involved. As long as he can obtain a reasonably accurate transformation of the forces involved into a single vector in contact with him, he could manipulate that whole. So things are easiest with rigid solids(you can cheat a little to treat the entire object as one immutable whole, or split it off at any part cleanly) and radiant energy(linear energies which propagate in a predictable manner), while having more problems with fluids outside an enclosed system and gases.

In the case of the plasma storm, I personally thought it was more a danger that he might eventually initiate fusion or attain a singularity, since he can simply override any repulsive or radiative forces, but it fundamentally requires handling the entire local atmosphere as a single vector(inwards, towards the plasma ball). The windmills threw enough of a wrench into the math to make him lose control of the plasma, whereas a focused manipulation like electrically splitting up the plasma makes it a direct contest of power over power, which as the Strongest he is expected to win.

Index spoilers:
It's an ongoing problem with him, since his power depend on sufficiently accurate computation of the vectors involved. Like anyone, he takes mental shortcuts for the math for it to work quickly, shortcuts which can be exploited. Accelerator's biggest weakness is that under it all he's a human.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2013 22:24

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Phobophilia posted:

That and his plan is still terrible and stupid. Unless Touma is willing to physically scramble Accelerator's brain, it should by rights be zero reason to stop the experiments. The City has sunk so many resources into him that their response to Touma doing his thing should be "oh, I wonder what's his shtick? While we're finding out, let's continue slaughtering the clones".

I personally think that other than Crowley's meddling, what really made them call it off was Accelerator going power mad and nearly destroying the city. That plasma vortex is pretty distinctive.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2013 13:00

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

JosephWongKS posted:

This is Academy City, home of officially-sanctioned experiments on orphans that turn them comatose (Season 1) and experiments involving the methodical and systematic slaughtering of 20,000 girls (Season 2). There are much, much, much worse things they can do to a captive other than killing her.

Light Novels: Just check out what they did with Dark Matter when they found his crushed body

# ¿ Jul 30, 2013 20:45

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

arisu posted:

They should spend the rest of the season animating the Liberal Arts City light novel.

Hopefully they do that, there's enough beach service in Liberal Arts City anyway for their quota. And plenty of action for everyone.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2013 07:58

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Unfortunately no, but you do get Kuroko action!

# ¿ Aug 1, 2013 08:18

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

JosephWongKS posted:

I hope the remainder of the season includes at least one episode featuring Sogiita Gunha. I still don't know what his powers are (other than being AMAZING) or what he actually does on a daily basis, but I've read that one manga chapter at the start of the Sports Festival arc where he and Misaki recite the sportsmanship pledge and I'd love to see him making an appearance in the anime.

I recall he gets at least one fight with Misaka.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2013 08:41

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Nate RFB posted:

Some scanlations for Chapter 61 finally showed up.

I wonder what the longest period of time that Academy City has gone without someone starting up some evil plan is.

Probably nonexistent. The whole place is stuffed with power mad teenagers and even madder scientists.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 20:21

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Well looking at things:
Accelerator - Psychopathy, superiority complex, no sense of proportionate response. No friends to speak of. Just enemies and insects.

Dark Matter - God complex and an urge to stop being Number Two. No friends, nearest thing to regular human interaction is a Kihara.

Railgun - Violent streak, she goes hunting for delinquents so often to let off steam, but mostly just stun and terrorize them rather than anything permanent. Close friends who aren't bothered by her power.

Meltdowner - Berserker. Revels in indiscriminate destruction. Some friends, though they're more like minions really.

Mental Out - Control freak, Insecure. Casual disregard for human dignity, though at least she doesn't kill randomly. No real friends, only mind-slaves.

Sogita Gunha - Crazy in the anime protagonist sense. Hero complex. Has a few friends, sort of trying to keep up with this crazy

Seems to me that at least part of their problems stem from isolation. Most level 5s just don't really have any friends who'd tell them they're doing something wrong, or refuse to take their bullshit. Whereas Misaka is as stable as she is probably because Kuroko is a persistent crazy lesbian stalker. Someone who trusts her to the extent that she's not worried of being accidentally killed in a fit of annoyance. Misaka has loving parents, whereas looking at the living conditions of most of the Level 5s, they're likely not in any contact with family.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2013 08:56

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Nate RFB posted:

Right, she could do that. But thus far that sort of behavior hasn't been observed.

I think it's implied her posse isn't being controlled either; she argues with them in a few scenes IIRC. She definitely doesn't seem to have any qualms with temporarily Assuming Control with anyone though which again isn't particularly nice of her. But also not psychotic like Accelerator or Meltdowner.

She freely assumes control, has preplanted suggestions and also edits their memories to her convenience. Essentially they're friends with her because she made it so.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2013 15:43

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Nate RFB posted:

I guess this is getting into Manga/LN Talk, but which chapters/scenes are you referring to? I'm current with the manga and read most/all of her stuff in New Testament I didn't get that impression at all. I could just be forgetting or glossing over something of course.

Somewhat. The LN has a chapter where Touma works with Mental Out. And the latest manga sections doesn't do much to improve her image either.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2013 16:19

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Oh she's not bad, but definitely twisted in her own way. Just because she's not a raving lunatic doesn't mean she's a well adjusted human being.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2013 16:40

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

It also showed she finds no issue with trivially overriding the free will of other students just to make a point. People who have done nothing other than being around her regularly get suggestions implanted so that they can be used as she finds convenient. And she'd get them to do some pretty inappropriate(LN)/risky things on a whim, wiping out their memories later.

Of course, even Misaka would zap Kuroko and Touma on a whim, but she limits the damage to the deserving for the most part. Also I suspect Kuroko resists electricity at this point and Touma is immune.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2013 17:50

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Paracelsus posted:

Don't forget the ability to keep an object you're touching at a constant temperature.

That is quite useful in weather hot or cold, I'd say. Nice cool shirt on a hot day or warm mittens in winter. It's not hurling lightning bolts, but it's probably more handy on a day to day basis.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2013 08:19

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

ActionZero posted:

That power would be insane at higher levels (which would probably mean being able to spread it further or something). It wouldn't be much good for fighting but it's basically localised denial of entropy. Keep a power plant at the same heat without needing to add more fuel and you have an essentially endless supply of perfectly clean energy.

Accelerator could do that.

If he could be bothered to.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2013 15:50

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Maybe, but the funny thing about weak powers is that they have a lot of directions to grow in, loosely defined as they are. Is it done through heat, stasis, a barrier or a manipulation of time? Who knows? She doesn't need much more in the way of powers, since her character is based on being very good at computers, but otherwise an earnest, nice, but weak girl.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2013 18:25

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

JosephWongKS posted:

I still don't think the "talking to cats" girl is going to get too far even if she upgrades her ability to Level 5.

Unrestricted mental control over lower life forms across a wide range?

# ¿ Aug 14, 2013 19:25

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Based on what we know by now, the city probably was never intended to last more than long enough for Crowley's grand experiment to go through.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2013 04:52

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

If necessary they could plonk Accelerator at the base of it to deal with any accidents.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2013 08:32

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Dark Matter would be more useful there. Accelerator doesn't do ongoing effects. He could make it go up, but not stay up.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2013 09:59

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

SatansBestBuddy posted:

Holy poo poo did I pick a bad time to get caught up with the manga

Can't be helped really, any time multiple level 5s are involved it rapidly escalates to a huge clusterfuck.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2013 09:18

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Dan7el posted:

It really is that easy to lose a kid. Man, those mysterious people in the dim computer room are really full of themselves. "Hey, instead of loving with only one level 5, let's gently caress with two of them! Who's with me?

We can only hope for some serious rear end-kicking in the next couple of episodes. Agreed. A team-up would be awesome.

The two bombardment specialists of the level 5s. They're going to level the whole place at range man.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2013 18:32

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

None of the known L5s are in Judgment, largely because of unstable personalities and collateral damage. Likely Judgment doesn't want to officially take responsibility for a L5 cutting loose on a criminal. Misaka acts as an unofficial adjunct though, since she can be trusted to stick her nose into any business Kuroko is having trouble with, while being an independent operator and thus liability free.

As for authority, Judgment mostly seems to be able to arrest, but not hold or punish. They can stop criminals by force(heck, with esper criminals there aren't many options), but once the culprit is incapacitated they hand off to Anti Skill. That and they take care of the 'light' police duties. Anti Skill seems to be more of SWAT situations.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2013 17:45

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

The city government is a private institution. I think they are technically in Japan, but due to the city's isolation, what's going on inside is basically private law.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2013 05:57

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

The part where the state has any concern with the welfare of it's citizens, and politically speaking, international responsibilities. A sovereign state depends ultimately upon it's citizens for income, but Academy City's income derives from it's huge amounts of super tech, plus, it's ultimately only interested in the students inside as part of Crowley's mega experiment. As long as his experiment still works, they could all die for all he cares.

Academy City is essentially a megacorp version of MIT with a secret cult in charge.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2013 06:16

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Effectively, it's a dictatorship with good publicity. What the world sees is the model city of the future, high tech making everything better and giving kids superpowers. Which acts as a highly profitable front and means to draw more investors and lab rats into the city to support it's true goals. On the surface it's still a private educational and research institution.

Do note that until WWIII, the city played it's role as a center of research and technology without causing any diplomatic or political fuss. They certainly have enough bribe money to keep nosy outsiders out.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2013 08:29

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 10:55

veekie: Dec 25, 2007; Dice of Chaos

Only on the surface though. All those groups and projects are theoretically independent research teams under the auspices of the city leadership, which lets them pull the "he was acting on his own" excuse. While they have a monopoly on legitimate force, they don't claim one. A simple way to justify Anti Skill would be just to point out rogue espers and ask if the Japanese police would like to contain them or if the city's private security forces would.

Theoretically the city is answerable to it's investors and research staff leaders, but they all lead back to Crowley in the end.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2013 09:51

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